All Joe, all the time

It was sickening to watch Obama constantly laughing-off serious questions that McCain raised. Does Obama really understand how serious this job is, and just how dangerous this world has become? He just doesn't seem to get it.

I hear Joe the Plumber might not even be registered to vote,If this is true
he will be found out and look like an idiot for getting national attention!
to me John MCain should have checked this out before he went spilling all this stuff out into the public audience.

"Wurzelbacher was critical of Obama's plan to end the income tax cuts for people making more than $250,000 a year."

Oh boo hoo.

It's pretty hard to sympathize with those making $250,000+ per year. Sorry Joe the plumber, the rest of us will struggle to make our mortgage payments.

I think "Joe" has more than shown his true colors... whether official or not (he may well be a one-man anti-Obama force) I consider him a plant... read his interview at that claptrap of a website, familysecuritymatters, and judge for yourself.

Plumers are expensive to hire. The fee to have one come to your house is a flat $75.....just to show up! I'm really not feeling too sorry for Joe the plumer.

A plumber making more than a quarter million dollars a year can afford to pay his taxes.

Joe says, ""Why should they be penalized for being successful? ... That's wrong. ... Obama wants to take that basic right and penalize me for it. That's a very socialistic view."

Gee, Joe, are you aware of federal tax brackets? That you do indeed pay higher taxes the more you make? Like, right now.

The election is over. Futures markets have a huge spread on Obama winning. And no wonder.. Poor McCain looked like some sort of manic owl with the raised
eyebrows and incesstant blink-blink-blinking.

"Joe the Plumber".. What a sad political move at the 11th hour.

Yvonne and Orly, try getting off your couch and working. Why should people who have been successful pay for free loading wastes of skin. Obama chickens will come home to roost, I promise you. Just as this sub prime lending mess has come home to destroy Chris Dodd and Barney Frank. But the socialist media will just wash right over it and no one will do anything. THANK FOR THE NEXT GREAT DEPRESSION OBAMA!!!!! Hooray for Trickle Up Poverty! This whole thing is so very unbelievable to me. Are the "People's" eyes closed.

Actually Yvonne, I heard Acorn registered a Joe THEPlumber 400 times in the Southside of Chicago. So I think he is all set with that.

Evan-I work, I pay taxes, I do everything that YOU currently do and I DO NOT make more than $250K a year and therefore will benefit more under Obama's plan.

Why is that so hard for rich people to understand? Oh wait, did I just assume you were rich, the way you just assumed Orly was unemployed and a free-loader?

And since when did being unemployed mean that you're lazy and a free-loader? PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS. They're not quitting and hoping for the day Obama wins so they can get their free share. Are conservatives supposed to be compassionate and spiritual?

THAT is whats truy unbelievable.

Evan...Why is the dichotomy only between hard working individuals and "free loading wastes of skin"?

Is an aide in a Nursing Home, who is trying to support a family on $25,000/yr, a "Free loading waste..."?? Is a student who is trying to work his/her way through school with a job at Wal Mart for $8.00/hr, a "Free Loading Waste..."??? What about a Vet Technician?? What about the person who cleans your office at night? What about the barber who cuts your hair? Are all these people free loaders because they don't make $250,000/year? What a complete load of nonsense you spew

Evan you are so dim-witted. The current crisis belongs to none other than the Republican Congress and President that created the mess. Deregulation belongs to Republicans. Sorry bud.

As far as your other comment. John McCain is the one with the chickens who are already roosting. His sham of a campaign, and flat out lies have degraded his character beyond reproach. He has sold his soul to the Republican devil. Trickle up poverty is what W's tax policies have done to the bottom 95% of Americans, so quit your class warfare ranting. That is why there is the biggest economic disparity since the 1920. You lose!

Hello all you ignorant elitists in Boston!

"Joe the Plumber" was talking about buying a BUSINESS that makes more than $250K per year. He has to report that as personal income as a small business owner even though he pays his employees out of that $250K.

From the AP: COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Who is Joe the Plumber? He is Joe Wurzelbacher, an Ohio man looking to buy a plumbing business. Wurzelbacher said Obama's reaction left him feeling uneasy. "I didn't think much of it the first time I heard it," Wurzelbacher said, adding that he still thinks Obama's plan would keep him from buying the business.

You really don't get it, do you? The far left wing liberals on this board mostly work in academia around Boston and have NO CLUE about the real world which is made up of small businesses and not ivy towers.

Drink some more Obama-aid.

Go ahead, call me a racist for disagreeing with Obama. That's the typical response of the far left wing for anyone who disagrees with their Chosen One. Pretty sick minds actually.

For a group of people who plaster their elitist college degrees on their car windows you don't have a whole lot of common sense.

Excuse me Evan - the soicialist bailout has happend on a Replublican Adminstration's watch. Not a Dems. Remember Bush's promises 8 years ago ..... Less Government" HA HA - ya right. So don't go blaiming the Dems (as usual).

I think we're becoming what I call a sopitalist society (socio-capiltalistic). In fact haven;t we always been really?

I ask - if you were layed off would you collect unemployment? If so you're also paritng in a qauzi-socialistic benefit.

An Joe the plumber - hell yes he needs to pay more taxes - he's ripping all of us off forom the get go anyways - $125 to show up in my town. And remember to whom much is given much is expected.

Also - who the hell is he to say that others who are making less than $250k are working any less. I mean spare me he's making a @#$%^& load of money to connect pipes. There are people in healthcare, teaching etc who are making a hell of a lot less than $250k and he has the nerve to imply they are working less. Spare me.

see, here's the thing. for people to insinuate that people earning less than $250 grand are somehow inherently lazy, don't pull their weight or are somehow inadequate is preposterous. No one can begrudge or discredit joe the plumber his impressive $250 grand, but that goes both ways- one cannot begrudge or discredit a paycheck that is lower than that either.

The fact of the matter is, when you take x% of taxes from $40 grand the result is going to be more noticeable on a day to day budget than if you take the same x% of taxes from $250k.

The only way "Joe the Plumber" gets taxed more is if his PERSONAL INCOME is over $250K... More than five times the income of the average American.

Get it straight: This guy's nothing more than a republical greed-mongering parrot who cares nothing about anyone but himself. That's as unAmerican and unpatriotic as a person can be!

If Obama gets elected and raises taxes including Corp. taxes, even MORE people are going to lose their jobs.

Listen to McCain: we have the second highest Corp. tax rate already. As it is jobs are moving overseas, higher taxes will just make it work. You've heard the term "global economy", right?

It should be no surprise! Obama has been running on this platform forever. He wants to raise taxes for those 5% who earn more than a quarter million dollars, by 3% - back to the Reagan Rate. And lower taxes for the other 95% of us.

McCain has some notion that he can cut taxes for everybody AND balance the budget.
Sorry Joe, every has to pay their share and a progressive tax system is nothing new.

A business that makes a profit of $250,000 a year doesn't necessarily equal a business owner bringing home $250,000 a year. Most of that profit should be invested back into the business to help it grow. Maybe a second store, another vehicle, more advertizing, better health insurance, and another employee or two. Small businesses have so many expenses they can't be listed here. If taxes are raised considerably, then the owner would have to cut spending, which hurts the business and its employees. This policy is socialism and is unAmerican.

Yes, TM, I feel the same way you do that Joe the Plumber was a plant. Joe the Plumber, Joe Six Pack -- sound familiar? Real middle-class America, at least that's how McCain sees it. He can relate to middle-class Americans about as easily as Paris Hilton could relate to the Pope.

Was Joe a republican plant?, just put out there to give McCain something to talk about. He doesn't earn anything close to $250k and probably isn't going to either, but he immediately honed in on that number when questioning Obama. Bottom line he is not affected, but McCain thinks he can use this guy as role model of middle America...Huh??? Since when does middle America earn $250k. McCain has tried everything and still he gave no substance to his own position. It is mind numbing and quite aggravating as a citizen to be treated with such arrogance that we should be fooled into accpeting 4 more years of failed policies.

Just to set some of you cool aid drinkers strait on who I am. I'm a 30 year old, father of one and have a great wife. I lived in Mass and now in south FL. I'm currently working full time at a international non-profit that provides for the poor. I'm a part time student at Palm Beach Community College trying to one day make a better life for me an my family. OH, by the way I'm only making $32k a year. And WE are struggling to put food on the table for my 3 yr old!!!!!! BUT!!!!! That is not your problem!!!! And you shouldn't have to pay for it!!!!! ONE DAY I WILL NOT BE IN THIS SITUATION. I dream to one day make more the $250K, and I don't want any of you Free LOADERS to touch it. None of you see how dangerous Obama's way of thinking truly is.

Long live Obama and long live socialism!

We are the people who will take over this world!

#11, 12 and 13, do you know what the real consequence of hitting high-income people with more taxes is? It's that people like us who don't make that kind of money will make even less or even lose our jobs. Obama is treating you like ignorant little fools who can be sweet talked into voting for him. In slumping economy, we should vote Republican, because they are the people who know how to create wealth and grow the economy. The Democrats will take more money from the treasury to "ease" your pain, but the economy will slump further and you'll get deeper pain instead. And #13, the current crisis is not caused by deregulation. It is a combination of globalization and inadequate controls over the mortagage industry.

It seems to me Senator Obama don't have a reasonable solution to a simple problem and that's called INEXPERIENCE.

#25 explain this sentence:

"#11, 12 and 13, do you know what the real consequence of hitting high-income people with more taxes is? It's that people like us who don't make that kind of money will make even less or even lose our jobs."

Also, please explain how deregulation and "inadequate controls" are different.

Dear #25, that may quite possibly be the stupidest comment I have ever read on these boards.

Need I remind you about the stupid amount of money spent each month on Iraq?!?! Whose fault is that eh? I put that one squarely on the back of Republicans.

Mk-- "In slumping economy, we should vote Republican, because they are the people who know how to create wealth and grow the economey"

Do you actually believe that? Let me fill you in on something MK: the engine that drives America's economy, is the middle class. And the middle class is, and has been, hurting for years. When the middle class has good paying jobs and has money to spend-- that's what drives the economy.

oh, and 'the current crisis isn't caused by deregulation... it's a combination of globalization and inadequate controls over the mortgage industry." That's a joke right? not caused by deregulation? buddy, 'inadequate controls over the morgage industry'-- was caused by DEREGULATION!

moron.

Dear #25, that may quite possibly be the stupidest comment I have ever read on these boards.

Need I remind you about the stupid amount of money spent each month on Iraq?!?! Whose fault is that eh? I put that one squarely on the back of Republicans.

Once again, McCain's staff has done a real cock-up job at vetting a poster-child for their version of the American Dream (Sarah Palin being the other, of course).

I really like McCain. I think I'd vastly prefer to have a drink with him (I don't think this is a possibility with Obama.) However, I'm not going to vote for him.

If he'd only stayed the McCain from 2000. I'd have donated a kidney to that candidate. The extent to which he's compromised himself cow-towing to the 'Republican Base' (a.k.a. Religious Right) is positively craven!

I'm convinced what we're seeing now isn't the real John McCain. However, if elected I doubt we'll see his real self either. He's just too beholden to some truly odious interests.

Why can't fundamentalist Christians go off and wait for the Rapture and leave politics to those of us who plan on living in the world for some time yet?

TO small business owner in OH, who reads the Boston globe ;-)

Yes your right. Joe the plumber is talking about buying a small business. One where he expects to net over $250K in profit to get this "tax". I run a small business, sole proprietor, and I can tell you that if he needs to claim over $250K in net profit with a plumbing business he'd have to be grossing substantially more. Sort of an unrealistic argument, makes him seem like more of a plant although i don't usually go in for conspiracy theories.

The other point that is missing is that tax exists for him now were he to buy that business and the change for him under Obama is an insignificant couple thousand dollars. If he's willing to ditch his plans going forward based on that he's lacking a little in business sense.

All in all, Joe the plumber will do just about the same under both candidates. It's almost a non-issue discussion and a waste of time.

The whole Joe the Plumber $250K a year is a sham. Here is why:

I have owned a few small companies in my life. If you are a small business person and own a business, you take charge off the expenses of the corporation or business, health care, mileage, supplies, etc. So, the truth is, if someone has a small business making $250K a year, they are not paying taxes on the whole $250. The truth is after expenses and everything, a small business with gross receipts of $250K being a one man person company only really makes about 62,500 a year.

So, in order for a small business owner to make over $250K a year, they have to have gross receipts of at least 2.75 to 3 million dollars. But, take into consideration, they will have more employees, more expenses...the truth is it is only a fraction of a percentage of small businesses fall into this category.

It just shows me this Joe person just does not really know what he is talking about and the GOP is grasping at anything to make a point. Most small business people I know care the most about health care because that their main expense on their balance sheet. But the whole Joe thing is a sham. The guy owes taxes and does not even have a plumber's license --

What the heck every happened to Josephine the Plumber????

mk, I don't understand why you would encourage anyone to vote for a Republican because they know how to create wealth and grow the economy??? I'm thinking you are joking right? Haven't we just been through 8 years with George Bush? The economy is in turmoil and the only wealth that keeps growing is in the pockets of the already wealthy. Remember, the rich keep getting richer.

Joe the plumber clearly was a plant to be used at the debate later. Especially reading that he owes back taxes, and doesn't have a plumber's license. His story may well be true, but the fact that he "randomly" met Obama and spoke to him clearly isn't true. The way that McCain insinuated him in the conversation really makes this seem like the case--the first time he brought up this Joe was out of nowhere, and he kept going back to him. I wasn't suspicious at first, but became so later on as the debate progressed. Again, Joe's views may well be real, but I believe he could have been sought out by the campaign to talk to Obama.

A plumber is worried that Obama will tax him more because he's making more than $250,000 a year? Who are his customers? I betcha all those AIG and Lehman Brothers management live in his neighborhood!

Joe the plumber wanted some recognition and he got it, thanks to a desparate McCain. Now let's move on to something more serious...like the economy and people who don't make $250K a year.

Give me a break that this crisis is entirely the Republicans fault. The housing forclousure crisis and that is a result of the CRA, the Community Reinvestment Act, which when enacted by Carter had some positive changes but was enhanced by none other than Slick Willy in 1995. This was supported and stumped for by Dumb Barney Frank who had the Fannie and Freddie in his pockets. Being an American does not entitle you to own a home, it is a privelage not a right and should only be done so if you can afford this. The blame game here in way should fall on the Republican party but on both parties. So you liberals who feel that your not culpable for this your dead wrong.

The rhetoric out of the Obama camp is funny at best, down right dangerous at worst. He is a socialist who wants the rich to suppor this country. And no I dont make $250K a year but dont support Obama's tax plan. If you tax the rich whom already pay an outrageous % of the overall tax bill, their incentive to spend and invest stops. This is trickle down economics and is the truth.

Top 1% of wage earners pay roughly 40% of all taxes and the top 25% pay close to 90% of all taxes

Look up the facts before you take sides. Obama will ruin this great country.

Don't get too comfortable dems...this might be as close as 3 point race.

Barack Obama holds a 7.3% lead in the Real Clear Politics average of all polls, but the latest Gallup tracking poll reveals that there are nearly twice as many undecided voters this year than there were in the last presidential election. The Investor's Business Daily/TIPP poll (which was closest to the mark in predicting the 2004 outcome -- 0.4% off the actual result) now says this is a three-point race.

Give me a break that this crisis is entirely the Republicans fault. The housing forclousure crisis and that is a result of the CRA, the Community Reinvestment Act, which when enacted by Carter had some positive changes but was enhanced by none other than Slick Willy in 1995. This was supported and stumped for by Dumb Barney Frank who had the Fannie and Freddie in his pockets. Being an American does not entitle you to own a home, it is a privelage not a right and should only be done so if you can afford this. The blame game here in way should fall on the Republican party but on both parties. So you liberals who feel that your not culpable for this your dead wrong.

The rhetoric out of the Obama camp is funny at best, down right dangerous at worst. He is a socialist who wants the rich to suppor this country. And no I dont make $250K a year but dont support Obama's tax plan. If you tax the rich whom already pay an outrageous % of the overall tax bill, their incentive to spend and invest stops. This is trickle down economics and is the truth.

Top 1% of wage earners pay roughly 40% of all taxes and the top 25% pay close to 90% of all taxes

Look up the facts before you take sides. Obama will ruin this great country.

the next time a poor person offers you a job, would you please let us know,because it has NEVER happened.Only the rich can manufacture a job ,not your'e government. When this socialist gets elected we who work will be paying for those who don,t !

It is quite funny that the Boston Globe has vetted "Joe the plumber" and researched him more in 16 hours than they have Barack Obama in 24 months.

LOS ANGELES (FakeNews) -- In a stunning turnaround from his announcement Wednesday night that he'd hit the free agent market, Dodgers outfielder Manny Ramirez said today he'd accept arbitration with his new team and sign a one-year deal.
"With the ways the polls are looking, man, I better not sign no new big money contract. That Obama cat will take a huge bite, man. I'm Manny the Slugger and I don't want no socialist taking my money. The price of gas is up."

Lets see - Obama is talking about going BACK to the taxes we had under Clinton, but ONLY for those making over 250K. The rest of us will get further cuts.

Now I lived through those times, and I CERTAINLY don't recall any rich folk struggling, or new business struggling to get started (as a reminder for the numbskulls, during 8 years of Clinton the stock market grew an average of 15% - way better than Reagan)

McCain hit the nail on the head last night about taxing corps more. We already have way too many jobs moving over seas. You tax a corporation more, then more jobs will move over seas, which will result in more layoffs, which will result in lower spending, which in turn will drive this country even lower then it is now.

A few other items of note. Why has McCain not mentioned the amount we spend on security for this country since 9/11. Granted yes, we do spend a lot in Iraq, but we also have spent loads on securing our country from another attack. Which by the way has not happened since Bush administration spent this money. I would have loved to have heard a question during the debates how they plan on keeping our country safe.

I also came across an interesting tid bit today about Obama's plans. He talks about the deficit we are in now, but yet his financial plans would put an additional 218 billion in to the deficit. Yeah that seems smart to me. Lets make the deficit bigger, I truly think that McCain has the better presence to keep us safe, and get us back on track. Obama is all talk and will have no action.

It is also comical how everyone blames the Bush administration for where we are today. I ask you though, isn't the house filled with Democrats now? Have they done a darn thing since taking control? Especially considering that was their promise, "Vote us in and we will get us on track". Doesn't seem like Polosi (SP) has done squat since being voted in.

Taking advice from a tax evading plummer who dreams of owning a company earning 250K - (that's millions in revenue earned by employees making well under 100K) is akin to betting on the lottery. McCain's unspoken dream is to send our hard earned money overseas where he can play at commander in chief and buy allies with large monetary gifts as Bush has done the past 8 years.

"the next time a poor person offers you a job, would you please let us know,because it has NEVER happened.Only the rich can manufacture a job ,not your'e government"

Wow, just how stupid and ignorant can you get. Most small businesses are NOT started by the rich. They are started from zero by people who work their asses off. And very few ever get to be making over 250K *IN PROFITS*
And as for the government "not manufacturing jobs" - at least 20% of people in this country "work for the government" - moron. And thats not including all those folk who make stugff for the pentagon etc.

Hey "small business owner in OH". If you are truly a small business owner you would understand that salaries and other expenses are not part of the 250K number that is being discussed. The taxes apply to the PROFIT that the company makes, and salaries and other expenses are not part of the profit. If a company has paid its bills, and paid its employees, and then is still left with a net profit of 250K (or more), then as a small business its doing pretty good since that profit goes in to the pocket of its owner(s). I was a small business owner for 6 years and if I'd been making that much profit, I'd be happy to pay a tiny percentage more back in taxes. At least get your facts about the financing correct when you make arguments.

Post # 23 and 9, Evan you must be quite the saint working for an international aid foundation for the poor, all those "freeloading wastes of skin" that you speak of must quiver at your feet for your benevolence.

Thanks sole proprieter. It does seem like people would benefit from some basic accounting. $250K net (basis for taxation) for a business is a lot different than $250K gross. Generally a successful small business nets about 10% of gross sales. That means for Joe to be taxed on $250K net profit, he has to be generating $2,500,000 in sales. That's a lot of plumbing.

Everybody jumping on Small Business owner in Ohio.......I don't know if Obama's plan means 250,000 gross or 250,000 net. Obama has never said himself....sure just today Biden came out and said it was gross, but who knows....if it really took them this long to explain who knows what they are thinking.

The point is though that Obama is saying 95% of families will get a tax break under him......doesn't it scare anybody that 40% of us (my family and myself included) do not pay any federal income tax. Yes that is right, I get all my federal deductions back at the end of the year. And so do most of you!!! Do you really think it is fair that we are given money from a system that we don't contribute to?

Wow, a union that does not like people against Obama. . . there is news for you.

God help us all if he wins, it will be the end of the USA as we know it. Obama will make us the USSA

I plan to vote for Obama because I believe he has the right view on foreign relations and building mutual understanding in general. But the truth is this.

Everyone--particularly both candidates--is scared to put the blame for the financial crisis where it belongs. It's trendy to point fingers at the ever-evil Wall Street and Washington. But as opportunistic as they may have behaved, if we're going to be honest, the real blame for this mess goes on all the people who bought houses they couldn't afford. Whether they were irresponsible or just uninformed, people took on mortgage loans they wouldn't be able to pay once their interest rates went variable. These are the same Americans who carry massive credit card debt and buy plasma screen TVs, rather than saving for retirement. As they've defaulted on their loans, banks' investments have gone bad, and the whole financial market and economy have crumbled from there.

If I were a political candidate and suggested this, I'd get killed. All those regular people out there don't want to hear that they actually need to take some responsibility for themselves. They want to hear that it's someone else's fault, and the good ole government will take care of them.

I'm sorry if someone reading this is losing his or her home through no fault of his or her own. There are people with difficult circumstances and low incomes--my own mother and sister included. But my mother and sister don't live beyond their means.

I put 40% down when I bought my condo 4 years ago, making sure I could always pay off my mortgage if necessary. If my neighbor bought a house twice as big as mine that he couldn't afford, I SHOULD NOT have to pay for it through bail-outs and higher taxes.

And, by the way, just because you've worked hard to achieve a high income doesn't mean you're wealthy. Some of us making more than $250K a year actually came from single-parent families and other challenging circumstances and worked our way up from nothing. We've just made it. Now, we have families and aging parents to support, and are just trying to establish some financial security. We worked hard and played by the rules, and now, Obama wants to change them on us, tell us that we don't deserve what we've achieved. Where was all this income redistribution when my mom was struggling to support my sister and me? Where was my college credit?

The top 5% of American earners already shoulder's a massive (40%?) of the country's tax burden. That's quite enough.

Maybe those calling for bail-outs and higher taxes on high earners need to stop complaining, take a lesson from those high earners and take some responsibility for themselves.

McCain says this 'spreading the weatth' is a bad thing...when you tax people making over 250,000$ and using tax money for important social programs, education, etc.
but
it is OK to take 700 milion of taxpayers money to give to Wall Street?

Evan-how is your child'd education going to be funded?

I thought the "spread the wealth around" thing attributed to Obama was something made up by the Republicans... until I heard the clip of Obama himself saying it. Spread the wealth around? Really? That is not what our country is based on...

Dear small business owner in OH,

You say "Call me a racist for disagreeing with Obama." Well, I wouldn't do that. I'd rather call you a racist for implying that because he's black he's athletic and drinks Gator-ade.

hey steve ef MORON ! they might not have had money to start a business with, but they sure had some to hire a nitwit like you.....as afr as government jobs go you certainly must be one of them...easy to spot....

Someone please tell us all what McCain meant by "Hey Joe, congratulations, you're rich!" He said it twice. All that was in between snorts, grimaces, sneers . . . what an old coot! Now he's chasing this Joe Plumber tack . . . so erratic!

Read the Rolling Stone article about McCain's path to the Senate. And what he said to his wife when she joked about his receding hairline. This man is a fraud and very creepy. Country first? I don't think so!

Everyone complains about the money spent by the government on Iraq etc..What about the $100 million a month each of these bozos are taking in and spending each month to blow their horns. That is the real sad part of all of this.

J is right. Obama's tax plan is nothing but the tyranny of the masses that allows those who are not that successful to legally take from those that are. I really like the guy and think he is presidential but am disgusted by the ease with which democrats embrace this punishment of success and initiative.

Most people who make 250k a year do so for one reason- hard work. They aren't trust funders, they aren't Lehman executives. They are your neighbors, who usually from a combination of hard work, thrift and frugality are successful

those who seek to use democratic means to take from others, and who think that doing so is there right cuz Obama says it is... well people, you are simply stealing- life is not fair. get over it and stop thinking it is your right to demand that others pay your way. I say that in recognition that many who do espouse this are hard workers- no matter. You have no right to demand that the hard work of others goes to your benefit at their detriment.

John,
You're not quite right. All countries are fundamentally based on the idea of spreading the wealth around. I personally, cannot afford an army, or to build freeways between Ohio and California. But my money pooled with everyone else's does us all good. If I can afford to pay a bit more so that everyone else can have nice roads too, that does me no disservice.
This isn't socialism its just civilization.
So lets not kid ourselves that some how Obama will come into our homes and take our big screen TVs in the name of the mother state and nationalize our back yards into gulags. Any president and any government we get will do the same thing to slightly differing degrees.

It doesn't add up, does it? For a plumber working 2,080 hours a year (40 hours/week with 2 weeks of vacation) would have to make $120 per hour to clear $250,000. And that doesn't account for expenses, such as an assistant, phone, advertising, vehicles, and materials.

I'm sure there are some plumbing companies that do much better than $250K, but the one he's hoping to buy is just a two-person act. This doesn't pass my BS filter.

Forgot in all this is Joe the Plumber said it would take $250k to buy the plumbing business. There was nothing said about income of $250k. So take it for what it's worth, just some common Joe's opinion.

Two-thirds of the corporations doing business in the U.S. paid no taxes from 1998-2005, while collectively reporting $2.5 trillion dollars in sales. If that's what you Republicans want, fine. But don't complain when *your* taxes go up, unless you're a freeloading waste of skin.

Opps, Joe "the phony " plummer, seems to have a connection to The Keating Five.
He is related to Robert Wurzelbacher, this guy has got to be a Republican.

From #14 - "The far left wing liberals on this board mostly work in academia around Boston and have NO CLUE about the real world which is made up of small businesses and not ivy towers." - Posted by small business owner in OH

Boston has plenty of colleges and businesses, true. However, there are lots of us who are here making the gears of those institutions grind. Most people I know deliver pizza, fix cars, answer phones and collect garbage. Yes, there are lots of people earning 6 figures, but not everyone is a professor or a stock broker. Boston has plenty of the "real world". Come visit the neighborhoods of Roxbury, Dorchester or Lowell sometime.

If a Bostonian made such a cartoon description of someone in Cincinnati (let's say something involving a trailer park and the NRA) you'd be outraged and say they didn't know what the were talking about, and you'd be totally right.

Don't lump people into stereotypes just so that you can dismiss their opinions. Look at the merits of the arguments.

I don't know tax code, but this campaign isn't about taxes. It's about finding a leader who can best represent the United States of America. I want a leader who projects the best that America can be. Someone who can flex and think outside of the box, not just play to his base. I don't want someone who got me to vote for him by making me afraid of the other guy.

How has the Bush tax cuts for the upper 1-2% over the past seven years worked for our great nation? We have the highest federal deficit and the highest national debt in the history of our country with the People's Republic of China funding and holding most of our debt. How is our economy looking right now? Not our finest hour (no fault of McCain or Obama). We, as Americans can not have it both ways. Something has to give. If we have to spend a lot (war, military, education, social security, infastructure, etc.) then we need to tax more. If we tax less then we need to spend less (don't go to war, cut the military, stop being the world's policemen, etc.).

Does anyone have a detailed plan about how the USA can continue to support the war on terror and pay off the federal deficit at the same time? If being safe from another terrorist attack is so important (which it obviously should be) why are so many individuals against paying extra in taxes to support it.? Doesn't it make sense to spend for today with what you have today? We, as a nation, can not keep running up this debt.

So everyone on here analyzing Obama's plan and Plumber Joe's situation and concluding that....nope...Plumber Joe would not pay more taxes under Sen. Obama's plan.....

How come Senator Obama couldn't explain it to Plumber Joe.....Sen. Obama's answer was "Yes....you will pay higher taxes"????

I hear Joe the Plumber might not even be registered to vote,If this is true
he will be found out and look like an idiot for getting national attention!
to me John MCain should have checked this out before he went spilling all this stuff out into the public audience.

Posted by yvonne October 16, 08 11:49 AM
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Really?? you "heard" this? How about you "know" if for a fact first before making an opinion on who will be looking like an idiot first. Funny I don't remember HRC and BHO checking out the backgroudns of all the waitresses and teachers they droned on abotu meeting during the primary season

Oh

first of all the claim that republicans can get us out of economic problems is a joke. We are facing the toughest economic problems since the great depression when it took the new deal to get us out of it. Trickle down economics don't work, they never have.Trickle down policies lead to the greasest wealth dsparrity in the history of this great nation. The US was built on the backs of american workers and the overwellming majority of us make far less than 250K. we cant take 4 more years of deregulation and our federal government turing a blind eye to corp. greed and lies. Also if you look at the numbers of the actual taxes corps. pay taking into account all of the loopholes we are in the lower third in the world. Do some research instead of just taking the old man's word for it.

"the UA looked long and hard at which candidates would put the needs of all the Joes in America first"

Has the UA ever backed a republican candidate? I be interested to know how many of the UA members are voting for Obama

Obama is a socialist. His tax policy is not "progressive taxation" but rather "confiscatory" taxation or even "punitive" taxation. I find it amusing that some people posting on here are ridiculing successfull people by mockingly asking us to feel "bad" for them. The fact is, most people with six figure incomes (and that includes me by the way) got there by working for it, and I do pay more taxes, way more taxes, than people making far less than me. It took me 20 years to make over 100K per year. Liberals, don't kid yourselves, the wealthy and well to-do in this country ALWAYS find a way around the punitive taxation policies of the left. With Obama, you will see more of it. Under Clinton with his more centrist taxation policy, you saw less of it. The people who suffer under high taxes are the middle class. Wake up independent voters who actually have a job - when was the last time the government actually gave YOU anything? Think about that when you walk into the voting booth in November.

Hey Evan, Isn't it great that people pay their taxes to help pay for the community college you're attending so that you can make your 250K someday.

Joe the Plumber is a dillweed who owes back taxes.

Joey, Joey,Joey. What were you thinking? You OWE taxes? Come on Joey,every plumber knows your supposed to clean up crap not spread it around. Wheres Joesephine plumber, your ex wife? I bet when she hits Kieth Olberman show, we might see another side of you. Hows your 15 minutes of fame looking now? I have one suggestion for you. When Nancy Grace shows up at your door, Do not under any circumstances open it !!!!!!!!! Especially if shes carrying a Roto Rooter, not a microphone. If you think YOU clean pipes, wait till she fires that baby up.

obama will be a great president. all you flag waving chicken hawks should get behind him if you really want a stronger america. obama will build our country's infrastructure. make it more equal for everyone. lets send the rich a message and increase there taxes till they scream "i don't want to be rich anymore".
great times are coming. yes we can!!!!!

After you thoroughly discredit Joe, how about answering his question?

"The Associated Press reported that Wurzelbacher doesn't have a plumbing license and doesn't need one because he works for someone else, a small company that does residential work."
OK, so that cancels itself out there. What a waste of space.
"But the county Wurzelbacher and his employer live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses, and neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed there, the AP said."
But do he or his employer WORK in that county? Couldn't be bothered to figure that out? That would be what? Journalism?

W

To Small Business Owner in Ohio: The money that you pay employees is not taxed. If your business takes in $500,000 in a year, you subtract all your expenses, including what you pay employees. Let's say after subtracting expenses, including salaries paid to employess, you have $200,000 left over. This is your profit and this is your taxable income. The $250,000 figure does not apply to what a business takes in--it applies to what is personal profit after deductible expenses.

What can I say about liberals,,,,'NEVER QUESTION THE PARTY" just go along.
and 'SPREAD THE WEALTH' !!! Just think about this ,the Globe attacked Joe the plumber,,no plumbing license, owes taxes, how simular is he to all of us. Biden lives in Wilmington Delaware in a home that is assessed over 3 million dollars, a white collar community at 81 percent, Blue collar 19 percent!!!!! Do you really believe the Joe the plumber is a neighbot of Joe Biden's like he says!!! Kennedy lives a life that none of us live, Kerry lives a life that none of us live,,what is wrong with this picture, Obama lives in a home that is evaluated over a million dollars!
I

THANK YOU TIM! Listening to the liberals spew the hate for people that actually dug through a life of want to get a piece of the dream and then those that didn't expect it is their right to tax us more IS SIMPLY SOCIALISM!!! Read Animal Farm for a look into the future!

Why are you attacking Joe the Plumber? Just think about the fact that Joe Bidden lives in Wilmington DE and in a home assessed at 3 million + DO YOU REALY THINK THAT HE HAS A PLUMBER AS A NEIGHBOR!!! REALESTATE WEBSITES QUOTE THAT THE COMMUNITY IS 81 PERCENT WHITE COLLAR WORKERS, AND A MERE 19 PERCENT BLUE COLLAR WORKERS! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE? OBAMA LIVES IN A MILLION DOLLAR+ HOUSE, are you his neighbor?
How hypocrital is your attack of this man who questioned Obama on his tax program,,, what is your agenda?

program,

Joe the plumber also has a another lean against him, and minor offenses to
try web of deception.com look for yourself

Censorship by the Liberal News!!

Hey Evan I DO WORK! You are probably the one who don't!,anyway,
Joe the plumber is a fraud, he makes like 40,000 yr, his employer only makes 100,000 yr,, he has 2 leins on him ,evidently he doesn't like to pay his bills,
And his employer has no intention of selling his business,and local 50 says he can not do plumbing without being registered,or licenced, So therefor your Joe is a liar to boot,want a little more info Evan?

"Joe the plummer" not licensed and owes back taxes. Joe is not too bright and un-fortunately either John McCain, who by the way didn't even get "Joes' name right.
I mean eight years ago I seriously and mistakenly would probably have voted for McCain (I didn't know he was in cahoots with Phil Grahmn. His judgement is seriously flawed and to easily influenced. Obama has plainly stated he will only raise taxes on those making over $250,000/yr. I will never make that and neither will the vast majority of those posting on this board!

Hey Tim

I've got a six figure income, too, and I'm voting for Obama. Like any human I'm pretty slefish, but I don't and can't look at life as selfishly as you do. It's never occurred to me to ask " when was the last time the government actually gave YOU anything?"

But I can answer it.

My maternal grandfather was 12 when he went to work in the coal mines of Pennsylvania. His daughter finished high school and was working when she met my Dad, a WWII vet. Dad went on to be a cop for twelve years while finishing college, after which he worked in sales and then ran a small business of his own for the last 10 years of his career.

My grandfather was an early UMW organizer who never spoke of his years in the mines until I was in college. He told me about what management goons did to union organizers. Women would wake up to find their husbands beaten senseless if not killed on their front porches. It took the government to intervene and get child labor laws in place as well as permit organizing. My grandfather left the mines and went on to own his own businesses when he got older, but he didn't forget where he came from and always voted for the interests of the working class. My Dad did likewise.

Why do you think working class people who went on to own their own business remained staunch Democrats throughout their lives? They like I voted more than once for Republican candidates, but their identity never wavered. Again, why? In both of their cases, and indeed with my wife's family as well, they recall why the New Deal was necessary and the resistance with which it was met. They knew what America was like before the New Deal, they knew what the New Deal accomplished, and they knew what America was like with the New Deal regulations still in place after WWII.

I showed up in 1954. I didn't go into the mines in 1966 but rather on to middle school. In 1972 I went on to college. I got my first engineering job in 1978 and like you have worked ever since. The government provided funding for the schools where I studied, and child labor laws enabled me to keep studying through adulthood. They provided me with teachers, cops, firemen, and on and on. The government has given me an infrastructure that is sorely in need of maintenance. It has provided funding for graduate medical programs that makes our health care system, problemmatic as it is, still remarkably effective. It has provided R&D funding for agriculture, defense, etc, although indeed it is cutting back.

Of course, that 's not what you were thinking whenn you asked "when was the last time the government actually gave YOU anything?" YOu were thinking about what really matters to you, which of course is you. Why does everything we do have to take into account "what's in it for me?" This attitude, fostered by St Reagan (a name only to be spoken in reverence), is destroying this nation. That our collective soul has been twisted cannot be better demonstrated than by the posts here with yours from people who do not seem to grasp their collective responsibility for the infrastructure, health, and education of this nation but are more than willing to throw every last dollar at guarding their precious 401k's.

There is one and only one question that we have to come to terms with in this country. Until we do, the rest of the blathering from one end of the political spectrum to the other is just noise. In my tradition, the question is voiced early in Scripture, and it is this: Am I my brother's keeper?

The Founders answered that forcefully with the words "We the People". Either that still applies, or it doesn't.

Hey Small Business Owner in OH. Get it right. As a small business owner you are income taxed on your profits, not your simple revenue. If you paid your personal taxes on your revenue as a small business owner than you should refile. Their is tax on the revenue but it is not income tax, as it is not all income. Obama was not talking about sales tax, he was talking about income tax. Two different things but you would know that if you were really a small business owner.

Uggh. Time and time again I'm deeply disappointed at the shallowness and pettiness of the comments posted on Boston.Com. All of this insulting each other instead of intelligent discussion. Recently I started reading the user comments on the nytimes.com and boy - what a difference!! Instead of this petty bashing each other, it is full of people *respectfully* discussing their different opinions. If you are tired of the insults found here, check out nytimes.com instead! (Same owners - different caliber of readers I guess). The editors also flag the user comments they feel are particularly insightful, which is also nice if you don't have much time.

Hey Small Business Owner in Ohio, I'm just wondering how Joe is going to buy a $250 K business when he doesn't even pay his taxes while making $40 K. The sub-prime loans are gone. Ain't no one going to loan him a dime.

The NYTimes reported that Joe the Plumber likes to ask "them" questions and to watch "them" tap dance - like Sammy Davis Jr.

And we are listening to this man? why?

You have to give credit to John McCain for his unflagging chutzpah.

Here's a man who says he is the best person to protect our country, because, as his campaign slogan says, he put his "Country First."

But, how in hell does McCain think he is qualified to protect this country when he cannot even do such a simple task as vet the background of "Joe the Plumber"?

Independent in Florida,
What serious questions did Obama laugh off? I saw him handle McCain's ridiculous insults and accusations with grace and dignity. McCain was shooting wildly in every direction hoping that at least one of his shots would strike, while Obama responded confidently and calmy. This debate once again showed that Obama is presidential and McCain is not. McCain is an agitator, not an executive. We need both, and his role is clear. He is not someone who should be calling the shots, he is someone who should challenge the person calling the shots. He doesn't have the temperament or the judgement to be president. This is plainly obvious considering his choice of a running mate. Palin might be charming, but she is totally inadequate as a VP candidate.

Obama/Biden is the responsible choice.

Ahh, you get taxed on your net profits. That's after ALL expenses. I grossed 500K in my small sole proprietorship and was taxed on $60k. If Joe has $250K in profits at the end of the year his accountant should inform him that it's time to buy a new truck, perhaps make a big inventory buy, put dollars into advertising, something like that to bring his net down. Otherwise he should incorporate, take a salary, and keep the net corporate profits under $250K. If that still doesn't work, hire some more dudes. If that doesn't work, then your business is very profitable and you'll soon be a millionaire, and you're just gonna have to eat your 3% increase. It's not socialism, you're just getting taxed. It's the only sure thing in life, other than death.

This whole story is nothing but a stupid stunt , set up by mc cain, get a clue you senile moron.

I respectly ask Joe the plumber or any of his supporters to explain exactly when and how the Republican party has helped people who work very hard but earn much less than $250,000 catapult across the great economic divide to earn over $250,000 in the last ten years. I fear that the GOP is duping working and middle class people into believing that we can become as rich as they are if we just continue to vote for them. When exactly will that happen? I can't see any hopeful signs today. Is Joe unable to awake from a pipe dream or have I been living under a rock? Please educate me!!!!

I do not understand the huff. The tax Obama speaks of for Ficticious Joe is a 3% increase on the dollars over $250,000. Then the comment by small business owner in OH October 16, 08 12:32 PM. He seems to think Small businesses get taxed on income calculated before employee expense. Seems to me Ohio must be doing alot of under the table employment. Perhaps closing this gap would reduce the need to tax the 250 to 300K income small business. Pay your do and we will all get through this together.

Look at it this way, ,in the Clinton era there were tons of low paying go nowhere jobs that required little to no education, but try to make more than $12 an hour and you may have some trouble. In the Bush era someone who worked hard and put themselves through school (with the help of government loans) could find a very good paying job and bring themselves up out of poverty.

(I only know this because it was the story of my life). So lower taxes on businesses and they have more money to create more jobs and pay more people more money. Raise taxes on businesses and they have less money to pay employees and less money to create new jobs.

It is an interesting theory to try and fix an economy from the poorest up but it has been tried and never works, see the former Soviet Union...