Everyone's Joe the plumber

It seems strange that there is this controversy over "Joe the Plumber" The tax would be for Net income over $250,000, So lets see. Joe buys the business. Say it earns $450,000 Gross. Then Joe takes the Salary of his employees out, say he has 2 at $50,000, that drops the income to $350,000, then you take out expenses. Say another $50,000 Gas, Advertising, equipment, etc..., Next, Joe pays himself $249,000. Leaving a Company profit of $51,000. Now if Joe has half a brain, he incorporates. separating the corporate income from his own...So lets see
XYZ Plumbing Income $ 51,000
Employee #1 $ 50,000
Employee #2 $ 50,000
Joe the Plumber $249,000

Since no one, or company is making over $250,000 No one gets a tax increase.

Simple Business economics 101....

Obama voted FOR Partial-Birth Abortion (the most barbaric "medical" procedure allowed under the law, and AGAINST the Federal Born Alive Infant Protection Act, which prevents babies that survive an abortion attempt from being killed or left to die. But the "democrats" and their media groupies would prefer to demonize Joe the Plumber, Sarah Palin, McCain, etc.

Simple fact is that Joe has never had a real chance to buy this business. By his own, ultimate, admission, they guy barely makes 50,000, let alone 250,000. How is he going to buy a business that has a net cash profit of 250,000? Who would lend him over a million dollars for that?

Don.... "simple" to you or I seems quite complicated to our friend Joe. I love the fact that he's supporting McCain because he wouldn't tax him more on money he HOPES to be making sometime. Keep dreaming Joe!

I think this Joe the plumber talk is so far off the mark it is silly. I've been in business since 1980 and have made really good income although I never made 250,000. But everyone in business know that when they have a good year we buy things to grow the business. Through Charitable giving and depreciation I pay very little income tax comparably even though I pay the max. in social security tax every year. So I say go for it Joe......You might make a lot of money but interest, equipment depreciation will reduce your tax obligation that you probably won't pay taxes for 10 years even though your net equity will grow substanially.

Dan M., your knowledge of tax law is non-exsistent. Poor Joe will end up paying even more taxes with your plan, as the sole owner of XYZ plumbing, not only does XYZ pay taxes but Joe gets hit on the profit as well, meaning his net income just went over $250,000.
But let's be real... if Joe is making over $250,000 a year from his plumbing business, I don't care if he pays a little more in taxes. Unfortunately, most of us, making between $40K to $250K a year will not get any tax cut with either canidate.
That's why you should vote for me!
Write in "Michael" for president and I will cut taxes for the true middle class and hard-working American!

Don M is precisely correct. In any case taxes are the very thing which emables the small business man to enter into business as a result of the very advantages which taxes provide him. Roads, police, fire men, schools, various servives provided by all governments. Taxes must be collected to provide these services which in turn aid those who take the risk of running a business. In my 45 years in business fear of higher taxes never inhibited me from continuing in business. I peovided 35 individuals with regular jobs plus doezens of subcontractors. Joe the plumbver is a liar and a wimp.

Don - this is exactly what no one realizes. There are so many loop holes that businesses use which are perfectly legal. Great analysis.

On another note, why is the Mccain camp still talking about Joe the plumber when for one he isn't licensed and two he would benefit currently from Obama's plan? its embarrassing enough for them that all this came out after the debate, but now i feel like they are insulting my intelligence and trying to manipulate others into thinking that joe the plummer is America's hero. I own a business myself, but even I know that real America's heros are the ones that are willing to do anything to put food on the table for their family. Hard working, middle class familys trying to get by each day. As Don said, an integral part of starting any business incorporates tax strategies similar to the ones described above.

I dont know what small business makes 200.000 a year, if they do they are a small number, most resturants that are small can make four times that and carry outs also so someone is blowing smoke and not telling us the truth, every resturant and carryout will be taxed mor and any other ma and pop store also. so Obamma taxes will effect 95 % of us and I think every small bussness needs to see that. washington we are not as stupid as you might think we are. I will not vote for any govenor or anyone else that currently serves, when washington approve their own raises and they should all take cuts also, new goverment needed!!!!!!!

Don M, very good point. I have been trying to say the same whenever possible. Basically, if Joe intends to seriously draw more than 250K from his business any time in the next 10 years, it must be a far more successful business than it is right now. According to Forbes, Al Newell's company that Joe would like to own someday, makes about 150K in a good year. Also, the average licensed plumber makes about $43K per year, and Joe who is not yet licensed probably makes less than that. Joe is the only other employee of Al Newell's company. So do the math. At high fees (let's say $75 an hour, you need to bill for 63 hours and 20 minutes a week to have a gross (that's before any of Don's deductions).

I just don't believe it. Their numbers don't work out. Gov. Palin says that it inhibits the entreprenurial spirit that made America great, but we know what really destroys the entrepreneurs. Huge corporations that are allowed to conduct business with no sense of ethics whatsoever. Mom and Pop can't have a grocery store anymore because the supermarkets are taking over. Mom and Pop are not looking to take home 5 times what the rest of us take home. They just want to be free to conduct their business in their community and make enough to stay there and then pass it on to the next generation. Joe doesn't represent these people. Joe is not even a plumber. He should be called Joe the Staunch Repoublican because he will not even listen to someone who is a Democrat even though his taxes are being lowered. The reason why is because he doesn't like Democrats. So no matter what Senator Obama said, Joe was going to call it "socialism".

And besides, the math shows this whole thing to be false. The man will pay less taxes under Obama, and he will probably never pay more taxes.

Ya, right. Obama's going to give us the same tax cut Clinton gave us: NONE.
You are a fool if you believe Obama. We will revert to all the old democratic taxes of the past. HOLD ON TO YOUR WALLET.

People making than more than $250,000 a year already pay more in taxes, why penalize them even further.

Actually, it gets better than that. Operating expenses in this type of business would run between 1/3 and 1/2 the gross or between $150,000 and $225,000. The employees would be paid by the hour. According to his whine, he was working ten and twelve hour days six days a week. As owner, he would be paying himself about $60/hr and his helper $40/hr. 16 hrs a week would be OT or $90 and $40. Wages would be running him $316,160 a year. He'd be operating at a loss and paying no tax on the business.

Your making one big assumption in that analysis. Although your analysis seems strong it is based on the fact that the company earns $450k a year. What if he expands, has six employees and the company makes $750k a year???? These are the dreams "Joe the Plumber" and other americans have that might not be possible under a certain candidates plan. You just can't cut your dreams and ambitions short because of a tax plan and then "spread the wealth" to people that didn't have these dreams and didn't do the work.

What about Joe The Senior Citizen Plummer who would like to retire, but his retirement is now somewhere in the ashes of what is left of Wall Street? Forget the hernia surgery he needs but doesn't have because time away from the business might cause him to lose contracts to Young Tom The Plummer. What about the very expensive pill his wife needs that Medicare won't pay for? He can't save by using mass transit because his city's lousy bus system doesn't go within 2 miles of his home or his shop. He and his wife are trying to stay healthy, eat healthy. Healthy food costs $$$. His state taxes food. Gimme a break, McCain.

Tim,
Didn't Bush I usher in the last tax increase?

Lightnin,
Stay on topic. The answer to every question can't be "abortion is wrong."

Here we have it from Obama's own words. Redistribution of wealth. Socialism. No wonder why businesses are already planning layoffs as they anticipate an Obama presidency.

Mike, a graduated tax system is not Socialism. Not even close. In fact it's been in existence in this country for as long as our tax code. Try not to drink so deeply on the Republican Koolaid next time.

Mike the CPA, are you REALLY a CPA? You must have gotten your degree from the same place that Joe the Plumber got hisplumbing license--NOWHERE! Joe the Plumber is not really a plumber and you are not really an accountant, buddy. Educate yourself. Joe the Plumber is also a DUI recipient without a license to drive, and has no formal plumbing license. Do you REALLY think he is eve going to make $250,000 with these credentials? Oh, of course, he could pay off one of the corrupt Republicans and get a fake license.

I'll say this very simply for you less than brilliant light bulbs out there. The more you ID10T Obummer supporters complain about "Joe The Plumber" the more you turn off middle of the road Americans. I was not interested in voting for McSame of Obummer. But then all of those Obummer supporters starting talking trash about some little guy named "Joe the Plumber".

It didn't take long before I notced the press and lefties (because I call em like I see me) hitting some guy that only asked a question.

And then McSame starts defending the guy. And Sarah "I can see Russia from my home" Palin goes after Obummer and Buy-In for saying "I don't know any plumbers that make 250K".

Frankly, that made me say, "That's enough of that BS. I'm getting off my rear and going to vote!" So, I went down and voted for McSame and "I can see Russia". Then I voted for Some guy from the Dem party for my country comminniser and some other Libertarian for my state government. Basically, I voted a middle of the road ticket. And you Obummer supporters and your hate made it happen.

Is anyone else getting sick of hearing about "Joe the Plumber?" Yeah we all get that he's just your "Average Joe" but seriously--it's getting old now. Find something new to communicate the message, please!

John McCain is running on a Keep Your Wealth ticket. Barack Obama is running on a Get More Wealth ticket. There's a difference. say no to Mcscrooge...

while McCain might help Joe the Plumber a little bit, Obama will help him more by giving him more business and infrastructure.

OBAMA IS FOR JOE THE PLUMBER. MCCAIN JUST WANTS HIS VOTE. OBAMA 08

Joe the Plumber and his family were on WELFARE during hard times, yet he now resents paying ANY taxes, and in fact, hasn't paid the taxes he owes.. He benefited from taxpayer money so that he and his family didn't starve to death. Taxes are the price we pay for civilization.

Move to Mexico if you want to see what life would be like without a strong tax base and be sure you're rich because you're on your own. Joe has become a tool of the GOP, who are desperate to keep their power so that the wealthy 1%ers can suck up what little money the middle class has left.

Obama's tax plan will benefit everyone over the long term. But why vote for this intelligent, presidential man with a vision for the future when you have a lumbering dinosaur and his hypocrytical cheer leader spreading their lies, outdated ideas and political trash? Hey America. It's time to enter enter the twenty first century. VOTE OBAMA.

Joe has been flying under the radar.
He needs to at least be an apprentice or journeyman to work in the Toledo area.
He can work in the republican townships or more likely fox or radio talk.
Mac and palin have both visited NW OH. No show Joe. The media misses the
most obvious stories.
What about that replacement topcop that palin hired then fired with $10,000 severance pay cause he had a sex charge on his record.
How about the hockey rink that loses money every year. They still haven't
closed on the land. And the contractor also worked on her house in a maybe ted Ssteve

The liberals don't get it. The issue is NOT Joe the plumber. The issue is Obama's ANSWER to Joe the plumber. On Nov 4, it's what cost BO the election.

I'm SO sick of hearing about "Joe the Plumber". What about "Suzie every-day American" who is working her ass of just to make ends meet. McCain talks about small business owners like every American owns a small business. REALITY CHECK - most Americans do NOT own a business and most of us never will. McCain -- what is your plan to help us -- the lower income people? You don't even mention any class below small business owners. You are so far removed from everyday America that you don't see that you only address the small business owner. as if no one else exists.

McCain/Palin -- what is your plan for everyone else OTHER than "Joe the Plumbers". I don't care about Joe the Plumber. I care about being able to survive!