Obama, McCain clash on vision, records
By Scott Helman and Susan Milligan, Globe Staff
Speaking directly to undecided voters, Senator John McCain challenged rival Barack Obama tonight in their second debate on his reform vision for the country, asserting that Obama’s record belied his rhetoric on lowering taxes, reining in government spending, and imposing more regulation on the nation’s financial system.
Obama answered by looking forward, casting himself as the candidate with the fresh ideas to restore fairness to the economy, help the middle class survive the financial crisis, and improve America’s standing in the world.
McCain, who, over the past few weeks of the campaign, has largely cast himself as an agent of change, switched course slightly to highlight his long record in Washington, touting his bipartisan legislative efforts with Democrats such as Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, his willingness to challenge Republican Party orthodoxy, and his support for alternative energy. By contrast, he argued, Obama has little in his background to suggest he can make good on his promises.
‘‘I fought higher taxes. I have fought excess spending. I have fought to reform government,’’ McCain said. ‘‘Let’s look at our records, my friends, and then listen to my vision for the future of America.’’
But Obama, as he has done repeatedly on the campaign trail — and, judging from the polls, effectively — argued forcefully that McCain’s record was one of pushing for deregulation. And it is the climate of deregulation in Washington, Obama argued, that has let the private sector ‘‘run wild,’’ and gravely threatens the global economy.
'‘You need somebody working for you, and you’ve got to have somebody in Washington who is thinking about the middle class and not just those who can afford to hire lobbyists,’’ Obama said.
McCain, in turn, took pains to separate himself from the unpopular Bush administration. The Arizona lawmaker said he would direct the next Treasury secretary to buy up bad mortgages and renegotiate the terms so that people can hang onto their homes.
'‘It’s my proposal. It’s not Senator Obama’s proposal, and it’s not President Bush’s proposal,’’ McCain said.
The debate had its fair share of pointed barbs, but they were issue-based, and did not veer into character, despite the bitter turn the campaign has taken in recent days.
McCain sought to underscore his experience in national security, and — repeating a common theme of his campaign — accused Obama of being too green to make the proper judgments.
When and whether to use force abroad is ‘‘a question [that] can only be answered by someone with the knowledge and experience to know,’’ McCain said, describing himself as someone with ‘‘a cool hand at the tiller.’’
‘‘In his short career, he does not understand our national security challenges,’’ McCain said of Obama. ‘‘We don’t have the time for on-the-job training.’’
Obama, clearly anticipating the attack, responded firmly by attacking McCain’s support for the Iraq war.
‘‘It’s true — there are some thing I don’t understand,’’ Obama said. ‘‘I don’t understand how we ended up invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11’’ while failing to capture Osama bin Laden.
‘‘That was Senator McCain’s judgment, and it was the wrong judgment,’’ Obama said.
But it was the economy that dominated the debate.
Seizing on public disgust with corporate executives, Obama slammed McCain for a tax plan — extending all of President Bush’s tax cuts — that the Illinois senator said would benefit those who don’t need more cash.
‘‘He wants to give the average CEO an additional $700,000 in tax cuts. That’s not fair, and it doesn’t work,’’ Obama said.
McCain retorted that Obama’s plan — to raise taxes on people making more than $250,000 a year — would damage small businesses and hinder employment.
‘‘Nailing down Senator Obama’s tax proposals is like trying to nail Jell-O to the wall,’’ McCain said.
Obama, repeating that his tax plan would cut taxes for the middle class, shot back: ‘‘I think the Straight Talk Express lost a wheel on that one.’’
The setting, a town hall meeting at Belmont University in Nashville, was McCain’s turf: The town hall has long been his format of choice — he held more than 100 of them in New Hampshire en route to winning the Republican primary there in January that resurrected his presidential bid.
Tonight’s debate included questions submitted by voters over the Internet. The sheer number of questions sent in — reportedly 6 million — signifies the unprecedented involvement and interest of voters in the presidential election. Moderator Tom Brokaw of NBC News selected a handful of online questions and also chose questioners from among 80 undecided voters sharing the stage with the candidates.
The event opened a window directly into the concerns of voters — on jobs, on the massive $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, on government entitlement programs, on healthcare. Not surprisingly, the economy dominated the discussion, with the stock market providing another grim backdrop: the Dow industrial average dropped another 508 points yesterday, closing at its lowest point in five years.
The biggest question going into the debate was whether McCain and Obama would carry their increasingly personal, character-centered battle into prime time.
McCain’s campaign, facing an increasingly narrow path to the presidency, has concluded that attacking Obama over his background, character, and past associations is the best hope for halting Obama’s momentum. A slew of national and battleground state polls over the past few weeks have moved decidedly in Obama’s favor, and if the trend holds, the Illinois senator could be poised to win a wide victory on Nov. 4.
Since last weekend, McCain and his running mate, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, have been stepping up their assaults against Obama, telling voters that they do not know enough about him to put him in the White House.
Campaigning in Jacksonville, Fla., today, Palin again went after Obama over his past relationship with William Ayers, a founder of the radical group the Weather Underground, which bombed government buildings in the 1970s. Palin questioned an Obama adviser’s contention that Obama did not know of Ayers’s violent past when Obama attended a political event at his Chicago home in the 1990s.
‘‘He didn’t know that he had launched his political career in the living room of a domestic terrorist?’’ Palin said, promising that the debate would highlight the distinction between Obama, ‘‘a politician who observes and analyzes us,’’ and McCain, ‘‘a leader who knows and understands us.’’
Obama’s campaign has responded by highlighting McCain’s central involvement in the Keating Five savings and loan scandal from the 1980s and accusing McCain of trying to distract voters from issues such as the economy, healthcare, and the war in Iraq.
McCain and Obama are scheduled to meet for their third and final debate next Wednesday night at Hofstra University in Hempstead, N.Y.
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To call this farce that happened tonight a debate would be a travesty. In an insult to intelligence of viewers, both candidates avoided answering the questions asked of them, thus being complicit in the dumbing down of political process.
Both candidates simply repeated their talking points instead of answering the questions asked of them, and their talking points were a repeat of the first debate. The town-hall format, as well as questions asked, didn't really matter and both of them simply repeated the same points and counter-points as the first debate. Déjà vu, anyone?
I felt like throwing a bottle at the TV numerous times during the debate, while both Obama and McCain were being repetitive and boring.
Why Americans - who believe in choice and freedom - continue to tolerate this bipartisan corporate-sponsored stupidity called debates is beyond me. Boston Tea Party anyone? Let's get Nader, McKinney and Barr into the debates. Why keep those voices from reaching to American people?
Obama WON the debate!
I think the most salient points for me today is the discussion on their varying visions for healthcare. Mccain claims Obama healthcare plan aims to nationalize healthcare coverage..while that is partly true, I don't think it's such a bad idea. The reason is this, Obama wants to introduce an accessible, fairly priced government subsidized healthcare plans with favorable rules, and standards that will force the rest of the insurance industry to compete with it. People will still be able to choose between private or government options, but the introduction of a government subsidised plan in the market is going to have a game-changing impact. Imagine. If one person sells one apple for a dollar, and everyone else sells apples for $2, people will either only buy apples from the one who sells it more cheaply, or everyone else is going to have to lower their prices or offer better apples. This is going to drive change across the insurance industry. McCain's healthcare attracts voters with a $5000 tax credit to purchase health insurance, but he fails to mention that he plans to tax health benefits for the first time in history....smart accounting, but it just feels like you are taking money from my left hand to give it to my right.
McCain has invented a new to call me the N word. We are now things and everyone else is a friend. Well my friend you dont get my vote.
McCain has invented a new to call me the N word. We are now things and everyone else is a friend. Well my friend you dont get my vote.
obama mentioned those borrowing to meet payroll. let me tell you something from business 101 class. if you're borrowing to meet payroll, something else is fundementally wrong with you or your business. you must have payroll met without borrowing. it's that simple. if i worked for someone borrowing to meet payroll, i'd be looking for another job.
Type your comment here...John McCain clearly has the foreign policy
experience to preserve our nation. God help us all if Obama wins the
election; It will be an expensive lesson for our country, both financially
(in increased taxes for all, sooner than you think), and in world stature
as we bumble through Obama's "learning curve"in that regard.......
I am hoping America can survive the next four years with an amateur
at the helm,_________
caroledudley@sbcglobal.com
caroledudley@sbcglobal.com
It already has been an expensive lesson with the republicans in power. They have destroyed everything America stands for and is. Never has a Democrate done such a horrible job at governing. Neo-Cons should be silent, as they have no argument whatsoever for thier party as doing anything good. Greed, war and misery is what republicans give.
Why do we let this happen? Ignorance really is bliss...
Before I paid attention to what was/is really going on it was way easier to swallow being taken to the cleaners by the Republican and Democratic power-brokering, tax-and-spend, re-election machines.
Watching what we have let happen to us makes me want to vomit!
As an alien I must say that I am shocked reading the after debate polls. How, for gawd's sake, can anybody approve of the blabber that came out of Senator McCain's (foul) mouth. What McCain let out tonight is a continuation of the Republican's convention: Rethorics, hero-ship, patriotism and a big empty nothing. How can some 40+ percent of the American population suppor Senator McCain: You should all be ashmed of yourself! America, and indeed the entire world, are in deep trouble!
Will Obama work for the United States or for our enemies? His life-long association with people who hate America is truly scary.
I'm terrified watching how people in the United States are being manipulated to put a Marxist in power, just like people in Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador .
Ecuadorians were fooled into believing that the young and charismatic candidate with no experience would bring CHANGE and help the poor. CHANGE and YES WE CAN were Rafael Correa’s slogans.
When Ecuadorian discovered they had made a mistake, it was too late. The CHANGE has been towards Marxism and greater poverty. YES WE CAN means that Marxists like Correa (and Obama) can lie and take over.
Antoni
caroledudley...more than half of this nation feels exactly the same about your candidate. god help us if we have 4 more years of republican leadership...more wars, more economic turmoil, more catastrophe in our education, health care and environmental issues, and not to mention the continued destruction of our rights as citizens. i laugh when the republicans claim they are more fiscally responsible...lets look at the 8 years under clinton versus bush fiscally and tell me how much you can really defend that claim? we've had a hard, horrible lesson for 8 years of ignorance....we don't need more.
McCain may still yet save his soul and redeem his future, but only if he stops the stupid, pointless, and inane personal attacks (Muslim, Ayers, Wright, etc.) Those attacks won't work, but if he continues, he will only be remembered as a desperate loser, instead of a graceful one... Maybe he has a friend who can tell him the truth past the filters of his campaign handlers....
Hey there Carole...Carole Dudley-- "we can and we will"... survive with an amateur at the helm, in fact, we'd survive better with anyone but a dinosaur from the "old guard" leading our nation. We need a makeover-- in a bad way. New ideas, new policies and new energy. Bush, McCain, Cheney, Rumsfeld are relics that belong in the Reagan Museum of Right Wing Wax Molds. "My friends" their answer to everything foreign is to use force/sanctions, while privatizing and deregulating everything domestic (education, healthcare, medicare, etc.). McCain's view is a Cold War view, and his ideas are textbook cold war methods.
God help us as we climb out of the Irag quagmire, God help us to ensure that an emboldened Al Qeada doesn't attack us again, God help us create a system based on fairness and balance, not one beholden to big oil and wall st lobbyists.
Carole, are you prepared for change or more of the mcsame?
McCain lost this debate on every level.
First he lost it on body language. He stiffly shambled around the stage and seemed too short and hunched over to reach his chair. I kept thinking that he probably had terrible breath and was showering spittle over the "undecided voters" who were unfortunate enough to attract his attention. And the blinking! My gawd did that man blink a mean streak! Talk about a tell.
He rambled incoherently and sounded tired and spent. He even lost the macho vote to Obama after the Pakistan exchange. When your opponent knocks you cold on your supposedly strong point you may as well quit. The best he could do was to insist that he "knows how to get bin Laden". Tell us please, poppa John? Or will you take your remaining marbles and go home if we don't elect you?
This one. . .
THAT WON 08
copyright d. wince
I think Barack Obama is going to win the election, but it's going to be close.
There is something wrong with your country. We in Europe work half time less than you, we earn more, we are guaranteed a cheep health care. There was a time when I was thinking of going to USA, but now I see that we live better here. I could never live in a country where health care is not seen as a human right and where every idiot on the street can carry a gun.
I agree that your country is a regulator in this world. But you are fnancing the hell that is going on in Palestine, without any regret. I wish for strong America, or Russia is taking over, but people don't trust your motives anymore.
Obama is the clear choice. He is the ONLY candidate in touch with the real truths (the economy, peoples concerns, healthcare, Iraq war, national deficit, etc.) McCain is basically 4 more years of George Bush's policies hidden behind the word "maverick."
There is NO CHOICE. McCain is the only candidate that is worthy and capable of leading our country. There is NO C HOICE for PRO CHOICE. Dems have simply ruined our country over the years. The party needs to change and the "so called" folks impersonating leaders need to simply GET OUT.
Carole with the economy in crisis do you honestly believe some type of tax increase will not be necessary-from either candidate? To think beyond the right now - the reality, no matter how distasteful, is that John McCain is not a young man and has had serious health problems. In that spirit, are we really ready to embrace a "learning curve" with Sarah Palin in charge - it would take her eight to ten years to get up to speed (she knows how to work the camera and a crowd, but I don't think she is capable of disseminating policies/issues). Think of the havoc she would cause in the meantime.
The presidency ages people, look at Bill Clinton before & after. The presidency will age McCain right to a coffin. If McCain is elected, completely unqualified Sarah Palin will be president because it is likely McCain won't survive. That is reason enough not to vote for him. For his age he looks great and I think seniors have a ton to contribute to society, but if you are a senior over 70 ask yourself, 'Could I be president now? Do I have the physical stamina to last?' Most people retire in their 60s for a reason. The presidency is a unique and stressful job, where 4 years is equal to aging 10..He already looked old & stiff last night.
it was definitely weird, to those of us that havent been watching mccains stump speeches, to hear the "that one" line. apparently he has a bit where he does this line but he blew the setup. i thought at the time if he just said "this one" when referring to himself that it would be ok, but he said "me" so it still left a poor impression: him-object/me-person. however, "that one" isnt the problem with mccain. his problem is revealed when he insults the voters with his cynical choice of palin, while obama graciously honors the voters by picking a good vp who also called him "clean bright and articulate". obama could hold a grudge but instead forgives and understands... it's genius, he lets everybody who ever had an awkward moment of personal discomfort (for whatever reason) about electing a black person "off the hook" by doing it. "he forgives us, as he forgave biden, so let's move on and get to work" is the message. even if no-one else notices this, the spirit of honoring the voters is there, and it counts. absolute genius. he deserves to win.
The PROBLEM with McCain -
It is very very clear that the Republican's strategy in this campaign
is to AVOID discussing their solutions to the economic problems & the IRAQ WAR - & focus on Smearing Obama.
ERGO - THE REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE SOLUTIONS.