Obama sees opening on healthcare

If dodging questions and rumpling nonsense are qualification for the VP of the USA, then may God bless us All. This is the kind of stupidity that being sold to the American people for the last 8 years. Based her debate performance, she may not even win a high school debate because she did not understand either foreign and economy issues facing the nation today. Winking may win a beauty bikini contest but not qualified to be the Vice President, let alone the President of the United States.

McCain's health care plan is aimed at one thing: gutting employer sponsored programs, just as he would gut the Social Security system if he could get away with it. Individuals purchasing insurance could never compete with the prices that are negotiated by groups, just as the individual worker could never wield as much influence with an employer as a union does. McCain would leave the working class to be exploited by those with power and money. It's time to return some power to the hands of the working and middle class. Don't roll over and take this anymore. Republicans have held out the dog treat of "morality" issues to whip the masses into line. Don't fall for it. The real immorality is their abuse of citizens.

AND YOU JUST FOLLOW WITH THIS STATEMENT TO ENHANCE THEY LIES COMING FROM THE MCCAIN CAMPAIGN...BECAUSE THE STATEMENT MADE BY BIDEN HAVE BEEN MADE BY OTHER INCLUDING REPUBLICANS...BUT I GUESS YOU ALSO FALL UNDER THE CATEGORY OF PEOPLE THAT WILL BENEFIT FROM THE DISHONEST AND UNPRESIDENTIAL MOVES OF JOHN MCCAIN.

The McCain campaign said the ad is "dishonest and false," and accused Biden of asserting a "blatant falsehood."

“The reality is that in a debate about who is more qualified, capable and motivated to defend working class families, Senator Biden lost to Governor Sarah Palin. Oddly, instead of shying away from an outright lie told by Joe Biden last night, the Obama campaign appears willing to double-down on his reckless dishonestly. It’s a lie for the Obama campaign to say John McCain’s health care plan taxes health care, when the McCain plan clearly provides the equivalent tax break for every American. Whether Barack Obama and his running mate are voting in favor of higher taxes on Americans making just $42,000 or telling bald faced lies, Americans know failed leadership when they see it,” McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said in a statement.

Dear Foon Rhee,
Instead of just stating what "he said, she said," would you please do a little reporting by researching the facts behind the statements so we can determine what is the truth? Or at least what is closest to the truth?

Rose, you make an interesting point. But does this apply to other types of insurance eg life, auto, etc? Why should health insurance be any different?

Personally, I think the Dems are trying to confuse the issue with people who don't know much about math or taxes.

Which would you rather have? A $5,000 tax credit or a $5,000 tax deduction?

Clearly, the credit is worth more. It's worth $5,000. But the deduction is worth whatever your tax rate times $5,000 ie 20% of $5,000 is $1,000.

The pride with which Gov. Palin flaunts her command of the issues astounds me.
Restoring AMERICA"s economy and place in the world will require more than enthusiastic parroting of other peoples ideas. Before either candidate selected their VP choice I could have let a coin toss pick for me. Mr. McCain deserves an equal. He got a parrot. That terifies me. Obama/Biden just got one more vote.

Really, "political intelligence" could provide some facts, not just parrot what this ad A and spokesperson B said. I totally agree with those other readers.

Obama hasn't explained, and neither has Biden, how they intend to pay for this very expensive healthcare plan of his. We are about to spent $700 billion on a bailout, and Obama wants to spend another $800 billion on his programs but hasn't told us how he will pay for it. Taxing wealthy Americans is not the solution and won't put a dent in the amount Obama wants to spend. The money will ultimately come from the taxpayer yet Obama hasn't told us how he will make us pay for it. Maybe it won't be a tax. Perhaps he'll increase tuition fees or other "fees" and make us pay that way. And then there is the Obama Global Proverty Tax. Imagine that! We will pay a tax to help curb global poverty. Where McCain would put country first, Obama puts other nations first. Why havea global poverty tax when there are Americans here that are suffering. What about the Katrina victims? Obama is just wrong for America. He is dangerous and lacks integrity and a command of the issues. Vote McCain so in 4 years we can put Hillary in office. She is the only one who truely understands all the issues and doesn't need cue cards or a speech to say it like Obama.

Obama and his ultra liberal policies!!!!!!!! He promises everything, changes his mind to suit the audience he is speaking with to get votes; he cannot be trusted. His mentor was a communist (that is very true); and now he wants to really screw up our health benefits. Make them like in England where everyone who works and can pay opts for what they call "Private Insurance" as the National Insurance run by the government is not worth a piss; waiting for care, waiting for operations, etc. Anyone belong or belonged to a HMO? I did; worse time in my life for health care. All the doctors did was prescribe medications: no tests, no specialies, etc. If it comes to that, I will opt out of insurance and either just stay sick or move to a foreign country that gives me the option of "Private Health Insurance". Damn Obama and Biden for their socialist ways. Russia, Cubs, The Middle East, China, Venezuela, etc. are now cheering Obama on!!!

It's bad enough that McCain has no solution for the millions (some say 47 million) of Americans Americans who cannot afford healthcare. But now he wants to mess with my employer provided healthcare? This is an issue that should be understood by the voters who have employer sponsored healthcare plans. Yikes!

McCain/Palin: Jack of all Trades and Master of NONE!

Let's see, Palin is evasive and Joe Biden told 10 flat-out lies and six other "debateable" lies, but gee folks, let's only criticze Palin. Biden lost me when the pathological liar said that he voted for the Iraq War authorization but did not realize that a War resolution meant we might go to war. Like all Democrats, he is a mealy-mouthed liar using lawyer semantics to recast his vote. On the other hand, if Biden does not know what he is voting for when he sends our troops into combat, do we need an incompetent like that as a VP? Obama/Biden is a trojan horse ticket that has yet to have the integrity to tell us what they stand for . If Obama/Biden think socialism is so wonderful, they should quit posing as Americans and just say what they are. Of course, if Obama/Biden told the truth they could never win..so they lie and count on terminally brain-dead automatons to vote for "hope and change" (regardlessof consequences).

It's okay to be against the McCain plan folks, but at least try to understand it properly. Most families with company sponsored covered are going to pocket some extra money. The tax on the insurance will be well less than $5000 at least for a few years.

Any family that currently pays their own insurance gets a $5K break. And any family that currently does not have insurance can get $5K towards insurance. And you can bet that competition will foster a large number of $5K family insurance plans out there. Not only that, it opens it up to allow you to choose any plan in the country, not just in your state. More competition, more options.

There is no incentive for the employers to drop insurance plans because they will not pay payroll taxes on them (as some erroneously report). Their costs will not change.

So basically the average family will come out ahead or even. Most employers will have not motivation to change. Those that already buy their own insurance can upgrade or pocket the $5K. Those that cannot afford insurance can now shop for policies in the $5K+ range. Those shopping for insurance can now choose from a much larger number of plans (out of their own state). And you will have insurance companies competing hard starting at the $5K point.

The bigger issue to ask McCain and Obama is how they intend to fund their plans. Neither have really answered that in detail.

Rhee seems to think parroting the campain's talking points, rather than digging the facts and coming up with a sound analysis, qualifies as journalism. I am surprized that this type of low-quality piece that one might expect in a junior high school paper came from a person with a title 'deputy political editor' of a major news outlet. Where are the facts? What are the details of the McCain healthcare plan? Do the campains have sound basis for their claims, and if so, what are they? None of these factual basis that reader may want to know to make a sound comparison is presented in this piece. Very dissapointing.

Oh my lord... This is insane.

The woman was only giving talking points. Frank hit the nail on the head... PARROT!

Now, in regards to this whole "healthcare tax" ... This is absurd! Why would we take this right-off from employers on their taxes? Small businesses are hurting real bad... Now you are talking about giving them the choice of paying MORE to ensure their employees or let their employees go out on their own and buy their own insurance. Either A. Employers will have to raise significantly the amount contributed by the employee (significantly) or B. Drop the employees from group coverage and not offer it at all. The average health care plan for a family costs $12,000 so, minus $5,000 credit... your talking about $600 a month a family would spend for coverage. INSANE!

Now, McCain claims that this will "spur competition among health care companies". Well, I got news for McCain... Unless you get health care companies to tell us how much they will lower the cost of insurance because of this new (privatized) competitive market, THIS IS JUST HOT AIR. There is no guarantee that they will drop the costs... none whatsoever !

Can I get an AMEN?

Eight years ago the Republicans fooled us with George W. Bush. Shame on them. Four years ago, they fooled us again. Shame on us. If we vote for a third Republican term, we are IDIOTS.

Not addressed in last night's "debate" was the most significant aspect of McCain's health-insurance plan: He wants to eliminate employer-provided insurance altogether, so every American has to buy insurance for himself - not as part of a pool of insureds, which lowers costs - but as an individual, at a far, far higher cost. And directly from the insurance companies who have funded his campaign.

To John McCain, this is "free enterprise," which means insurance companies are completely unregulated and completely free to charge whatever they wish, and the consumer can choose his own poison: no coverage at all, or coverage he can't afford.

Make no mistake about it: under the McCain plan, only the very rich will have health insurance. The rest of us can rely on home remedies, I guess.

American doctors and hospitals are unanimous in their analysis that the McCain "plan" is no plan at all, just simple pandering to insurance companies.

Palin proved she is able to memorize & recite the soundbites offerred to her without answering the question presented. TV Personality, for sure - (Vice) Presidential, I think not.

From Factcheck.org. The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan, which at its peak would cover 5 million of the uninsured, would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years. Obama's plan, which would cover 34 million of the uninsured, would cost $1.6 trillion over that time period...Palin also said that Obama’s plan would be "universal government run" health care and that health care would be "taken over by the feds." That's not the case at all. As we’ve said before, Obama’s plan would not replace or remove private insurance, or require people to enroll in a public plan. It would increase the offerings of publicly funded health care.

Palin also said that Obama’s plan would be "universal government run" health care and that health care would be "taken over by the feds." That's not the case at all. As we’ve said before, Obama’s plan would not replace or remove private insurance, or require people to enroll in a public plan. It would increase the offerings of publicly funded health care.

palinThe McCain campaign hasn't released an estimate of how much the plan would cost, but independent experts contradict Palin's claim of a cost-free program.

The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan, which at its peak would cover 5 million of the uninsured, would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years. Obama's plan, which would cover 34 million of the uninsured, would cost $1.6 trillion over that time period.

The nonpartisan U.S. Budget Watch's fiscal voter guide estimates that McCain's tax credit would increase the deficit by somewhere between $288 billion to $364 billion by the year 2013, and that making employer health benefits taxable would bring in between $201 billion to $274 billion in revenue. That nets out to a shortfall of somewhere between $14 billion to $163 billion – for that year alone.

Palin also said that Obama’s plan would be "universal government run" health care and that health care would be "taken over by the feds." That's not the case at all. As we’ve said before, Obama’s plan would not replace or remove private insurance, or require people to enroll in a public plan. It would increase the offerings of publicly funded health care.

palinThe McCain campaign hasn't released an estimate of how much the plan would cost, but independent experts contradict Palin's claim of a cost-free program.

The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan, which at its peak would cover 5 million of the uninsured, would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years. Obama's plan, which would cover 34 million of the uninsured, would cost $1.6 trillion over that time period.

The nonpartisan U.S. Budget Watch's fiscal voter guide estimates that McCain's tax credit would increase the deficit by somewhere between $288 billion to $364 billion by the year 2013, and that making employer health benefits taxable would bring in between $201 billion to $274 billion in revenue. That nets out to a shortfall of somewhere between $14 billion to $163 billion – for that year alone.

Palin also said that Obama’s plan would be "universal government run" health care and that health care would be "taken over by the feds." That's not the case at all. As we’ve said before, Obama’s plan would not replace or remove private insurance, or require people to enroll in a public plan. It would increase the offerings of publicly funded health care.

"There is no incentive for the employers to drop insurance plans because they will not pay payroll taxes on them (as some erroneously report). Their costs will not change."

I am both an employer and a individual buyer of healthcare. You do not understand what it is like to provide healthcare to people if you think that. It most completely will drive all health plans up for companies.

Heath Insurance works off a concept called risk pools. They look at the demographics of your members and assign risk values to them, and then quote you a package. This package is not just a price. Not all health insurance is the same. Some have yearly limits to out of pocket expenses and pay 70% of approved items, others pay 85% and have no limits to what they pay. All of them push employees around all the time, especially trying to finagle drug choices doctor's disagree with and pushing around people about how "we pre-approved that procedure in error, you're now due the whole thing"

The smaller the group, the older the group, the more dangerous or more injured the group, the more expensive the price you make is. In addition to the price, they also change levels of benefit. With even more young people leaving the risk pool, the resulting pools will get older, and the prices for group health insurance will rise.

For a family (or individual), it's even worse! That's because your risk pool is so small, they must know your medical history. Then they use it to preclude all sorts of things, or to offer you such a nasty package, it is near useless.

If you're a patriotic American who thinks more American babies is a good thing, then you're in one HELL of a suprise under John McCain's plan: Any plan that covers maternity costs much more than any middle class person can reasonably afford to pay.

Electing John McCain will effectively put a procreation tax into effect, because the "ability to buy plans out of state" will make it so state regulators can't effectively force insurance companies to act less sociopathic towards society. Maternity will be even LESS covered than it is now. God forbid you baby is born with a minor issue, you'll be set back an additional 20K on top of the 7-13k you're paying for a normal birth.

Lastly, by being "just one family", you lose lots of bargining power with the insurance company. If I found out that an insurer I was purchasing from was harrying my employees, and not keeping their obligations, my threat and probable ditching of the insurance company carries a *lot* more weight than a sick patient trying to ditch them. Note I *can* ditch them in that case. The sick employee (or employee's family member) has no power in that situation, as they'll not be able to get insurance while sick like that. However if the whole company changes plans, they have to take all of us at a time.

While I'd hate to see healthcare run by the gov't, after dealing with them, I can't see how insurance would be run worse than the flesh eating bacteria that pass for health insurers in the US today. The govenment does quite well with the two major types of insurance that they offer to my knowledge (FDIC deposit insurance and flood insurance), so while I'd not trust them to administer my hostpitals, I'd trust them more than Blue Cross Blue Shield or Kaiser. The Obama catchall plan would make my job a lot easier, as it would make the risk pools at companies look *better* to insurance people, as the gov't insurance offering would suck up lots of very sick people who would not longer be trying to get coverage from company plans all the time. Older people would phase into private insurance in their own time, and I'd have the tangible threat of just telling all the companies to screw themselves, I'm just going to pay everyone who gets the national insurance plan.

wait till we elect a terrorist loving idiot like obama because the media refuses to report on william ayers. and dems are to stupid to read about there guy. lets just all jump on the banwagon and vote for the democrate thats the cool thing to do Diddy told me to!!

McCain's Health Care plan is a lot like the de regulation of electricity.

Once the Giant Monolithic Health Insurers are free to compete, prices will come down by an invisible hand. However there is zero guarantee competition will emerge... only if it is highly profitable will compettitors enter this market. Expect prices to skyrocket before there is competition.

You can also expect companies to promise the moon, overinvestment in the industry, weak insurers will fail over time in a race for growth. Then the deregulated market will have declared a 'winner' leaving you to pick from say, three companies that offer limited choice at great cost.

Need Evidence? Banking. Trucking. Electricity. Telecom.

Deregulation is a great idea for investment bankers, they make money by betting on all the horses in the race. Bad idea for us, esp. in Health Care where mistakes equal death.

Lets face facts people,
Gov Deval Patrick , is a political follower and student of Obama who belives in everything Obama is doing. Now you voted in Deval, and Massachusetts is going bankrupt. Thanks to Deval, and you all have the truly unmitigated gall, to think just because it happened here in Massachusetts that it wont happen...here in the United States?
Are you that enthralled with party politics that you will follow blindly to your death, all the while whistling happy tunes?

And Let me ask you this. Mccains plan is to give you 5 grand , that Obama says is going to the insurance companies. Well DUH its your helth insurance payment moron. And yet Obama says he can (without raising taxes mind you) offer affordable and good healthcare to everyone!
Now you tell me , how is it possible to do so? Where does the money come from? He says that goverment will subsidize it. Well as in Medicare and medicaid? Which cant cover squat and are always facing bankrupcy? You tellme how the government wil magically give helathcare to everyone and make it affordable, and not raise taxes to pay for it? Please I DARE YOU! and if one idiot here mentions canadian helathcare, then go talk to a canadian citizen. They pay over 40% income tax Almost double ours, and in most cases you may have to wait for 2 to 4 months to see an actual doctor, nevermind a specialist. SO no person in history has been able to control meical costs but Obama, is an incredible economic and healthcare genius who can? And yet his healthcarelan says...wel i know it doesnt actually exist yet.

Tucker Bounds actually said: "Americans know failed leadership when they see it”! That is a very funny thing for a Republican to say.

John McCain will do for the health insurance industry what George Bush has done for Wall Street -- let it choke on it's own worst impulses while Joe and Jane Sixpack drown in debt and rising prices.

I pray to God that Americans do know failed leadership when they see it!

Rather disappointing journalism. Just cut and paste things together, no research done by the journalist about what the facts might be, no critical discussion. You know why we went to Iraq on false pretenses? Because the media didn't do it's job. Now we are paying 10 billion a month, not to mention the lost lives and lost reputation around the world.

If I recall correctly, Obama had said in the Presidential debate that there is a huge surplus of money being sent to fund (broken) aspects of the Iraq war. Indeed, not only is there a surplus, but, according to him, we're spending $10 billion a month in Iraq while there's a surplus of $79 billion.

That's a huge chunk of change that could be put to better use at home.

Ron, Rose, Michael, Frank, etc... You aren't going to be happy until you can actually say to your children/grandchildren "back in the day" when we were free...
I will be waiting there with an I told you so.

The problem with the McCain plan of a $5k credit is that a lot of lower income families (say in the $30-40K range) do not pay $5k in taxes when you factor in typical exemptions. So they don't actually get $5k to buy insurance... they may recover 100% of their tax burden, but it won't be enough to buy health insurance.

I can't help but wonder why American people believe it is the Governments job to provide for us? The country was founded on the principle that every person has the opportunity to make (IE WORK) for themselves the life they desire, not for us to suck the government teat all our lives. It should never be the government figuring out what is best for us. WE as THE PEOPLE should be doing it for ourselves. The fact is so many Americans now believe they are entitiled to whatever their heart desires and that they shouldn't have to work for it. WHAA! WHAA! Somebody save us from oursleves. Why can't I buy a house I clearly can't afford, I deserve it. Why shouldn't I get a job I'm clearly not the best candidate for I DESERVE IT. Give me a break! Keep it up Liberals and God help us if we ever get what you all think we DESERVE. Food vouchers, substandard healthcare for everyone, parental rights dismissed.....smells like socialism.... and that will be an Obamanation.

Rick is assuming that all small business owners are hurting. That's not so. I've worked for two small businesses (one of the two, currently) and both net multimillion $$ incomes each year, but offer the employees little in the way of benefits. Rather than looking at a business' size, as in number of employees, for tax purposes, the government needs to be looking at the business' income.

If we have to rely on state insurance plans, we may have to rely on home remedies. Socialized medicine does not work. The doctors are told how to treat, what tests to order, what medications they can prescribe. When did the insurance companies go to med school? To say that American doctors and hospitals are unanimous in their analysis of McCain's "plan" is an irresponsible comment. My doctors do not feel that way. They simply want to do what is best for their patient and not be told how to treat. Insurance should be competitive - let them sweat. Perhaps if everyone wasn't so greedy, i.e pharmaceutical companies keeping the costs of medications so high that they cannot be afforded by the average American or hospitals charging exorbitant costs for bandaids, plastic buckets, bed pads, etc. Then again, if the hospitals weren't forced to treat people who have no legal authority to be here, maybe the costs wouldn't be so high. Don't get me wrong, everyone deserves medical treatment in an emergency no matter what the circumstance, but not indefinitely. When stable, those not here legally should be sent back to their own country for further treatment. If costs could be contained, maybe insurance could be contained as well or at least have a better argument.

Do we really want socialism in this country? If it's so great, why do thousands flee it to come here. That's not what this country was founded on or what makes it great. We're not perfect, but there are other ways to keep it in check. McCain is not Bush. When are we guilty because we are affiliated with a certain political party or religion or race. Isn't this what we're trying so hard to overcome. Question someone on their own merits or ideas not because they are Republican or Democrat, white or black, rich or richer.

Bravo TLK! I think we found today's winner.

"I am both an employer and a individual buyer of healthcare. You do not understand what it is like to provide healthcare to people if you think that. It most completely will drive all health plans up for companies."

No, I do understand and you do have some points but:

1) Competition should drive plans down so even higher risk pool coverage should drop, stagnate or at least grow at a smaller rate. There will be a breakin period of a few years before you see any pool change.

2) If you, as an employer drops health coverage without a bump in my wage then I, as an employee, will go look at another similar company that provides insurance with the same salary. Basically, I will look for "total compensation" as companies are fond of saying and those that keep good insurance will have a competitive advantage.

I don't care which candidate you are backing but please have the courtesy to call a person by his/her name instead of the man or the woman.

"The govenment does quite well with the two major types of insurance that they offer to my knowledge (FDIC deposit insurance and flood insurance), so while I'd not trust them to administer my hostpitals, I'd trust them more than Blue Cross Blue Shield or Kaiser."

My mom uses medicare, far worse for paperwork, coverage and doctor's choices than both Kaiser and BC-BS, both of which I have been covered under. The main pain under Kaiser was nothing about quality or claims, but sometimes the wait was long to book an appointment or in the waiting room, but I would imagine it MUCH worse under a federal plan.

As for BC-BS, nothing but accolades for these guys from me so far.

Cigna, OK. Aetna, OK. Pacifcare - bleah.

Our country is in shambles. We are the laughingstock of the rest of the world. If we elect McCain it's only going to get worse. If you don't see that you've got blinders on.

If McCain had enough to say, he wouldn't lie so much. The McCain campaign is one endless lie after another. Even after they've been shown the truth they can't stop retelling the same lies, like "Barack will raise your taxes." It's like someone so old and senile once he starts shaking your hand he just can't stop. You can feel sorry for someone that old but that doesn't mean you have to vote for him.

Joell, The US is spending $10 Billion a month in Iraq WHILE IRAQ HAS A SURPLUS OF $79 Billion in banks here in the USA (from their oil revenues). That $79 Billion is NOT USA money, it is Iraq's. Senator Obama is asking the question whay are WE (the USA) spending $10 Billion a month on Iraq when Iraq could be spending some of the $79 Billions they have accumulated from selling their oil. IF we could free up those $10 Billion a month spent on Iraq, then we could put that $10 Billion to work for us here at home. The Iraq was and is an unnecessary war.

Take this opinion with a grain of salt.
I am a physician. Having fought the unscrupulous and illegal practices of health insurance companies for the last decade, I can say personally, McCain's plan is a disaster. Deregulating the insurance industry gives an already greedy and uncompassionate industry more power. I have a hard time getting paid for what I do now. Imagine how hard that will be when I'm trying to get paid by an insurance company 2000 miles away whose profit margin is determined by HOW MUCH THEY CAN REFUSE TO PAY ME. Remember, physicians are legally prevented (by the FTC) from joining together to contract with insurance companies. So the bigger the insurance company, the harder and more disadvantaged the physician is in dealing with the insurance company. Just as the family of three is disadvantaged in dealing with the insurance company compared to the company of 40,000. If you want substandard healthcare where every physician is so pissed off and frustrated because they spend all their time writing letters and on hold on the phone with some high school educated insurance "expert", please vote for this kind of deregulation. Haven't we been here before (Wall Street?). I agree that nationalized healthcare has huge pitfalls, but none are as big as this mess. My opinion is that we should make it easier for physicians to do what they're trained to do - taking care of patients. Clearly, putting them at a greater disadvantage with the insurance companies will not achieve this goal.

Why are we talking about this anyway? As a Republican President with a Democratic House and Senate, McCain doesn't have a prayer of getting this stuff implemented anyway.
Peace,
Brian

Obama/Biden wants socialized federalized healthcare. I don't agree. I like privatization of healthcare. The way it is works very well. I don't want my tax dollars to go to socialized medicine. Waiting years for surgery, patients dying while on a wait list. THINK... the serious ramifications socialized medicine will have on this country. SCARY. Look at socialized medicine in other countries... grim outlook.

Come on people....Palin clearly won that "debate" - all she had to do was not crap her pants.

Do people still get the $5000 tax credit if they choose their employer-sponsored health insurance plan instead of going out and "buying their own"? If the answer is no, then anyone who chooses the corporate plan (which is usually much better than individual plans) will indeed be taxed more via having to pay for their company plan with after-tax dollars instead of pre-tax dollars.

In other words, Obama/Biden is not saying that an individual's $5000 tax credit is going to be funded by the same individual being taxed on health insurance elsewhere. It's saying that corporate employee group health insurance customers are going to be subsidizing a tax credit for those who choose individual health insurance plans, via having to pay for the corporate plan with after-tax dollars instead of pre-tax dollars.

Obama/Biden are not advocating 'socialized' medicine. They are advocating a healthcare plan for people who don't qualify for a state plan like Medicaid and aren't covered by employer sponsored plans. For example, a single mother who works for a small business that is too small to provide an employer sponsored program. This will not change our current healthcare system's quality or access to care. It is adding another option for people who don't have an employer sponsored one or can't afford any other options. Also, I've noticed several postings talking about McCain's $5000 tax credit for families. That credit does not actually go to the family-according to the plan on his website-the credit goes directly to the insurer. In addition, we will now be taxed on the income that goes toward paying for healthcare premiums (which usually average $12000 a year for a family of four). Now, we are responsible for the extra $7000 a year? Seems to me, insurers will keep driving up the cost of healthcare in order to make more profit without anyone watching over them. I am a physical therapist and deal with insurance companies daily. I agree with the physician's assessment in an earlier posting. McCain's plan is a disaster and of no help to the middle class.

1. Obama is a great salesman, not a great statesman. What they are not telling you is that he and Pelosi want citizens to increase health insurance benefits for illegal aliens, and their offspring, who are of course by law, American citizens. They are here illegally, and yet even now, we are paying for their healthcare and educating their children. One of the biggest drains on the healthcare system today is free maternity for hundreds of thousands of children born to illegal immigrants every year. WE are paying for that. McCain's healthcare plan brings that to an end. Obama doesn't tell you the rest of the story. If you are struggling to pay for healthcare, you had better start caring about immigration.

So, what's wrong with taxing the people who benefit from their employer providing
free health insurance? Its income. Paying a tax is a small thing compared to spending $12,000 out-of-pocket for individual insurance for a family of four! think about it. There are more and more Americans who lost their good-paying jobs with health benefits. Now they have to buy their own health insurance and its a
shock to pay that much out-of-pocket. John McCain's $5,000 tax credit is a very
good solution. Obama's plan has no provisions for individuals who pay for their own health insurance.

Maybe the media should not take advertising dollars which promote falsehoods. Come to think of it, isn't there a law about truth in advertising? Guess it doesn't apply to either candidate.

to all of you who keep claiming that Obama wants "socialized heathcare," get educated & stop perpetuating ignorant lies. Obama has only proposed that private Americans not covered by insurance at work have the option of buying in (in a pooled way) to the plan offered to Congress. It is a privately administered plan-- the difference is, first ,access (I know a number of highly educated and capable people who do not have any insurance because they do not get it from their employers and can't get it privately- they are refused or quoted impossible rates); and second, cost-- this plan would pool people to reduce costs, the way employer plans do. The government is not taking anything over, so stop with the red scare fear-mongering. Everyone should have basic access to healthcare, and right now, we lag far behind our peer nations. Ultimately, we all save money when more are insured.

Bait and Switch? Please, this journalist and voters need to look a little deeper into the reality of Universal healthcare, Universal access to healthcare, and who is really responsible for the lack of affordable healthcare. Obama blames the insurance companies. Ask Michelle Obama about her role as VP of UIC, hospital, then ask Lisa Madigan about her role in blaming hospitals. Ask why she felt it okay to be involved with patient dumping, and the payment of $15 million dollars to a law firm in Chicago to collect on the indigent! The truth is there people and Obama is not telling it. Ask Senator Grassley and his bipartisan partner Senator Baucus about their role in making healthcare fair and equitable by holding hospitals accountable. Obama has no solution for change, he like so many politicians have jargon! 50% of all bankruptcies in this country are directly related to healthcare cost! Yet, Obama supported the $700 billion dollar by out! (Imagine the number of people able to be insured with that! There is always money when the rich friends of congress can get a little richer. People he has already raised your taxes! Do your homework, all you have to do is google it!

I am truly amazed by the increasing claims of "socialism/communism" by internet bloggers ... what are we, back in the 1950's!
Come on folks, we are a capitalist country which will always be so. However, we have also ALWAYS had a system of checks and balances to deal with the potential imbalances caused by a free market system. For instance, operation of businesses have been regulated to control for monopolization since the 1900's. I live in California, and we have seen the crisis caused by derugulation of the energy industry. The world now sees the problems cause by deregulation of wall street. It's about balance in a mostly free market economy. Health care is a market that MUST be regulated - health care is not an "option" if we want to have a just and productive society. Other things ARE optional - life insurance, even auto insurance ... you don't NEED to drive a car in many cities for instance. Some goods work under supply-demand, free market, some do not. Things that are basic needs & where we need price stabilization is where government gets involved - clean water, affordable energy, education - the government is involved in providing or regulating all of these services to provide the outright or at a reasonable cost. This does not mean we are socialist - but if you are going to claim that involving the government in healthcare - I challenge you to go off the grid, drink from the local stream for your water - see where that actually gets you. Government is not perfect, and we all need to be involved to make it better - however, I can guarantee you that you would be a lot worse off if government was not involved. People need and have a right to health care in our country - one of the richest in the world.

John McCain's health care plan moves us toward privatized health insurance. Employers who now provide health insurance benefits WILL pay more taxes on health care benefits, and as a result, many will drop this benefit. Now, if you think INDIVIDUALS or families buying their own health insurance through private health insurance companies is a good thing, you have obviously been fortunate enough to not have a major illness or chronic condition which has caused you to be refused insurance, or only given the option of extreme rate increases or crappy coverage. Good for you, but I do hope that you have continued health. Because if you don't, and you vote for McCain, you get what you deserve! Try living paying 25 - 50% of your wages to health insurance or having no coverage at all because you have a "pre-existing condition" and then going bankrupt from the medical bills. Look beyond your nose at what people are dealing with in terms of skyrocketing medical costs and disgusting greedy private insurance company.

And if you are going to comment about this, please actually study countries that have universal health care - from what I have heard it's pretty (doggone - as palin would say) good! Can anyone here tell me any specific information on why universal health care is bad? And please - nothing about canadians coming to the US for treatment. Do you know that cancer patients in the US without insurance are traveling to Latin and South America for treatment?

Obama has hit the nail on the head with McCain - he truly does not understand. What are he and Cindy worth - $150 million? Yet he STILL sucks off the government for HIS health insurance. Put him out on the street, let him try to find health insurance with his melanoma - maybe that would wake him up. On the other hand, all Obama is asking is that we all are provided with the opportunity to obtain the same health insurance that members of U.S. Congress has, at the same reasonable price. If this is communism/socialism, I'm all for it - but I don't think it is. I personally actually don't think Obama's plan goes far enought toward universal care, but it's a start. Too bad the greedy "haves" (vs. have nots) in this country can't see beyond their nose to what the average citizen faces, and how shameful it is that one of the richest countries of America fails to provide these basic services for citizens. Shame on us! (and I'm middle-class, fortunate to be in a job I like with good benefits - but I've seen cancer in my family, and the lovely joy of people getting nickeled and dimed by greedy insurance companies as they fight for their life ... it's not pretty and honestly quite disgusting).
OBAMA/BIDEN '08 for a just America for all - let's get back to a country we can be proud of, rather than a dying imperial regime where the rich-poor divide is ever increasing!

As a healthcare worker who sees people to literally get them back on their feet, I can tell you this crap of private healthcare insurance in the US is a disaster. McCain's plan will be a catastrophe that will DESTROY the country literally. There is NOTHING in his plan for premorbid conditions (meaning ANYTHING including a sprained ankle or wrist that you have received medication for even temporarily), does little for covering rehab services, and not only applies a burden on sick patients, but on healthcare professionals who are barely being reimbursed as it is.
McCain's plan will so frustrate all healthcare professionals further burdened with even more paperwork, so that less insurance will be accepted, private pay will be reimposed, and the nation will be a sicker nation than it already is because citizens will not seek preventative care.

From the First Presidential Debate:

LAUDABLE, BUT, WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THESE INITIATIVES? THE SAME TAXPAYERS THAT ARE FOOTING THE BAILOUT! YOU!!!

OBAMA: Well, there are a range of things that are probably going to have to be delayed. We don't yet know what our tax revenues are going to be. The economy is slowing down, so it's hard to anticipate right now what the budget is going to look like next year.

But there's no doubt that we're not going to be able to do everything that I think needs to be done. There are some things that I think have to be done.

We have to have energy independence, so I've put forward a plan to make sure that, in 10 years' time, we have freed ourselves from dependence on Middle Eastern oil.
We have to fix our health care system, which is putting an enormous burden on families.
The third thing we have to do is we've got to make sure that we're competing in education. We've got to invest in science and technology.
And one of the things I think we have to do is make sure that college is affordable for every young person in America.

And I also think that we're going to have to rebuild our infrastructure, which is falling behind, our roads, our bridges, but also broadband lines that reach into rural communities.
Also, making sure that we have a new electricity grid to get the alternative energy to population centers that are using them.
So there are some -- some things that we've got to do structurally to make sure that we can compete in this global economy. We can't shortchange those things. We've got to eliminate programs that don't work, and we've got to make sure that the programs that we do have are more efficient and cost less.

Why are we afraid of "paying" for health care reform? The truth is, we already pay through the teeth for health insurance and get far less than our mony's worth in return. Some folks who are well-insured still can't get covered for what they need. Paying for decent health care is not just for "them" it's for all of "us." And health care provides more jobs to the US economy, keeps our work force healthy--and it's the right thing to do. If we quit spending trillions on a failed war effort, we could better afford to take care of our own. European countries manage it nicely, they wouldn't trade with us for our messed-up system for anything. They understand that they ca expect good coverage for what they pay for.