Democrats unveil global warming bill

Liberals can take action that will reduce CO2 emissions TODAY....kill yourselves.

Outrageous. Economic suicide for no measurable effect. It would be impossible to tell whether this legislation 'worked' or not, even putting aside the main issue of whether the AGW theory is correct or not.

To the critics of this policy - perhaps you are right. Let's implement the alternative: do nothing to stop climate change, because that's worked so well. And I would love to hear your explanation on how this could be "less than useless" without the cooperation of China, India, Brazil, etc. For something to be "less than useless" it would have to actually do harm. How would this do harm? Any way our planet can cut emissions is a good thing (even if the impact is minimal). Also, everyone seems to want America to be at the helm of the world with our military power, and yet when we want to actually to be a leader in making the world a better place, then we're just being "liberal wackos". Perhaps (if nothing else) this policy will set a good example for the rest of the world. This mentality of "if we can't see results immediately then it's not worth doing" is horrendous. It's the same mentality that dictates the denial of climate change in the first place. The say there is no evidence of a warming planet because there was a day in Boston this winter without snow. If there isn't a neon sign that flashes when the planet gets warmer, then it must not be so, right? Let's ask Australians who've been suffering through a highly atypical 10 year drought. Let's ask Alaskans who've been experiencing the melting glaciers first hand. Nah, they're just "liberal wackos". Perhaps we should only believe in things we can see with our own eyes. But wait... America: in God we trust

How did I know without even looking at the bottom of the page that this one would bring all the fanatic so-called fundamentalist anti-reality wackos out from underneath their rocks! These are the same ostriches that believe in creationism. I guess gravity doesn't really exist because "it's just a theory."

Mr.Monkeypants - If you don't like having Ed Markey for your representative why don't you do the rest of us a favor and move to a red state? Oh, that's right, there are no jobs and plenty of natural disasters. I like that Mass. is going down in population... It means that more right-wing-nuts are moving out!

And for the rest of you gutless wonders who say it's not worth the money because every other country on earth isn't doing it, how can you even claim to have a conscience? You probably teach your kids that just because some other kid's stealing, just because there's profit in it, it's OK for them to do it? The thing that really sucks is that you'll never get a clue, so you'll just keep on breeding more greed-mongering idiots that, unfortunately, will be allowed to vote.

Actually, the earth has started a cooling trend already before any of this has been put into place. By the time it gets into place, the earth will be cooler and these bozos will say, "See, we made a difference!". Woohoo... the only difference I see is that I will be paying higher utility and energy bills because of the higher taxes and these clowns will be collecting the loot for their own personal gain..

These bozo's have yet to prove that mankind is warming the planet. Animated polar bears swimming around in an Al Gore movie doesn't prove a thing. In fact, polar bears are abundant in the Arctic region and anyone visiting there has to take a gun to protect themselves..

This is really about money, social engineering and control... so much for freedom..

We need CO2 to survive. Plants would die without it. And if the plants die, we die..

better yet don't vote at all... both sides are controlled by the globalist nwo

The Democratic propositions are viable. It is almost unthinkable that the people who, in their responses above, seem clueless as to the tragedy that awaits this planet in the very near future. Our planet is at a tipping point and many are content to argue and criticize and not only do nothing positive but choose to blame and point out the bad choices of other countries. Wake up.

First, I have to say that it is very refreshing to read intelligent commentary for a change. Many of the sites I visit for news are so inundated with mindless pro-Obama (aka Socialist/Communist) blather, it scares me senseless. It's great to hear intelligence in posts in a Leftist publication like the Globe.

Next, this legislation is predictable, given the state of things in DC today. The Democrat party has moved so far to the left, the prominent members in DC should consider changing the name to what it really is -- the Communist Party. They are after 100% control of the population. Think about it -- when was the last time you heard ANY of them advocate free will or liberty? As far as they are concerned, the population are "workers" and they are the collective "Queen" of the American Hive.

Finally, "Anthropogenic Global Warming" and the "Global Climate Crisis" are, quite simply, scientific theory, at best, and myths, at worst. The fact that the nuts in Washington are willing to sacrifice the entire GDP (which they DO NOT own) on unproven, illogical methods to resolve this theory simply proves they are not looking out for the lives, liberties, nor the pursuits of happiness for the American People. They seek power, plain and simple. And, they'll do anything to get it.

Think Long Term - Actually, cap and trade will create a more favorable environment for investors to invest ...in China and India. If we want "home-grown" energy, we need to be exploiting our massive reserves of coal and natural gas, not putting them off limits with asinine cap and trade legislation.

Suicide.

People, prepare to pay more for everything from food to electricity. This bill will affect every single aspect of American lives. Every single item that is produced, or imported will be slapped with a carbon tax and put US manufactures at an immediate disadvantage because China will be the clear winner here because they do not have to abide by any environmental regulation.
This bill will have an immediate detrimental effect on all our lives, through higher taxes, and fees being added by the government to make us alter our lives through financial force.
Sadly there are many Americans that are very receptive to light tyranny as long as someone else foots the bill, but it is increasingly obvious that as our out of control government seeks to sate it's voracious appetite of taking more and more control of our lives and there is no one to stop it. The checks and balances that were put in place by this Country's founders have either been removed or ignored.
The real question it, what is the 62 million Americans who didn't vote for Barrack Obama going to do.

Why are people saying that CO2 isn't a pollutant? Any element can kill you if there is too much of it. For life as we know it to be healthily sustained, there has to be a balance of the mixture of elements in our atmosphere.

Well Marc, Ted Kennedy says he does not want to see a windmill anyplace he is around. You can be pro-active yourself. You do not need government to do it. This computer is being powered by a solar array. You could put one up too. You don't have to have me to pay for it. Just save your money and buy the panels, employ the contractor and get on with it. The windmills are something else. Aside from any aesthetic considerations, the blades sometimes fail. N.J. has basically outlawed them for all practical purposes. They cannot be built within so many feet of this, that, and another. You can buy a full electric car or get one converted. I have. If oil hits 300 a bbl, I dare say it will mean that we will continue to use coal to generate electricity. People will buy and drive other cars. You are confusing the issues. There was solar system wide warming in the 90s. That has more or less ceased since 2000. The data from the MSU has shown no global warming for about the past decade. The CO2/global warming connection is at best bunk and at worst a fraud.

The problem with America today is Congress and the Whitehouse and the way they manipulate policies to fit their special interest.The earth and the climate has been the same since the beginning of time to this day nothing was change.What change is some whackos brain cell and their body temperature due to lying too much and using us the public for their many pork legislation.

Aren't we the global innovators? How is American entrepreneurship going to be motivated without incentives and regulations limiting 'business as usual' in regards to energy use and production.
Aren't you conservative nay-sayers pro-America?

cuzinjo, Donald, and mike:
Setting an example for the rest of the world? Creationism, in God we trust? We're at a tipping point?

Your bias is obvious. Your points ring hollow. I am a big proponent of scientific inquiry. I am an atheist. But I don't believe the sky is falling. The science is far from conclusive, and unfortunately you seem to miss the big point here: This legislation is going to cause more harm to the daily lives of the American taxpayer than any supposed global warming. It is highly punitive and will result only in an increase in energy costs while the earth continues doing it's natural thing. Humankind has evolved and adapted to natural climate change for 60,000 years. Other species have done the same over millions of years. You need to diversify your intake of factual information. CNN, the Globe, Olbernamm, etc. are not a well rounded diet of information. Seek out dissenting views and weigh them. I used to believe this crap, too, but have started growing up. I have no political interest in this, either: I am a middle class public school teacher in an urban district in MA.

this from the same morons who said: 'we don't have time to read the stimulus bill, we just have to pass it and hope for the best'.

even you treehugging types out there must comprehend the idiocy of such thinking.

The cap and trade will increase taxes on energy for EVERY family in America costing us between $2000 and $6000 annually. Obama is the gift that keeps on giving.

Donald- You have to read more about this. It is a sham. I am all for cleaning up the planet because I want clean air and land but I don't need to be scared into it. I use those "green" bags at the grocery store because they work better than paper or plastic and are better for the environment. I am all for eliminating pollution, putting money into greener technologies, and reducing our dependence on foreign oil. I am all for a cleaner world (and US). I just don't appreciate the politization of this subject. You really believe Waxman or Markey have a clue? This legislation will needlessly raise your electric, gas, and oil bills. You will pay a lot more than now. This will cost you hundreds of dollars (or more) per year.

If going green will really bring billions and trillions of dollars into the economy then isn't the tax revenue on the billions and trillions a huge amount of cash? If Waxman and Markey really believe in their plan, then won;t this be a huge cash generator. Why don't they smply say that the funds brought into the government via the changes in their proposal will be used for more environmental cleanup. It sounds to me as though this should fund itself.

Come on people. So what happens if we do this but China, Brazil, India, and other countries that are not included continue to pollute the environment? If China is still burning coal it is still effecting the climate

What is wrong in saying everyone has to do the work?

Green is the new red. God help us.

"This is a joke. The world laughs at us. China is building 2 coal factories a WEEK! The US alone can not stop bad emissions."

What does that have to do with the price of coffee? The bill is not intended to address China's emissions, rather the U.S's.

As to the comments that a 20% drop in CO2 is not enough to stop global warming (even on a worldwide scale), that's true--we need a 90% drop. But we need to start with something right now. It's clear that there is plenty of resistance to taking legislative (non-voluntary) measures to mandate CO2 reductions, so going beyond 20% within 8 y12 years would be unsuccessful, even though from a policy standpoint 90% reduction is the necessary amount (that no one wants to talk about).

Markey added in a statement "We will create jobs by the millions, save money by the billions, and unleash energy investment by the trillions"

Has he ever created one job that wasn't heavily subsidized by the taxpayer? His is truly the bvoice of a madman.

If Fast Eddy Markey is involved, it has to be a stupid (and wasteful) idea

Why is the real cost never mentioned? How large of a bureaucracy will be needed to manage Cap & Trade? How many hundreds of thousands of new government workers will be needed? How many building, cars and highly paid managers will be hired? How much will it cost to provide life-long health and retirement benefits for all those new government workers? Does anyone care? Apparently not.

These kind of HUGE goverment programs are burying us now but Obama wants to create even more. We're really doomed.

"You will pay a lot more than now. This will cost you hundreds of dollars (or more) per year."

and then you'll insulate your house, finally.

that's the point.

Marc wrote:
"It amazes my how many people are so passionate about their right to continue soiling their own nests. Even if there was no threat from anthropomorphic global warming, we would all benefit from living in a country with a cleaner environment. Other countries are trying to clean up their act, the US is not trying to do it alone. We are trying to take responsibility for our own actions as we should have a long time ago. Honestly, who would rather live next to a coal plant rather than a solar plant. I see no downside from living in a cleaner and healthier environment. "

Marc, I beg you to get educated on this. There is no relationship between CO2 emissions and how clean the environment is. Pollution consists of chemicals like benzene, PCBs, pesticides, fertilizers, etc. We could reduce our CO2 emissions to ZERO and still be living in filth. The Global Warming bill will do absolutely nothing to clean up the environment because it only deals with CO2. In fact one could argue that it will increase pollution because it will kill the economy and when that happens companies and people will be more tempted to save money by avoiding pollution controls.

You guys seem to be missing the motive behind this. It's about selling carbon credits. This is the world's biggest scam. They are dictating a market through policy that doesn't exist through free markets. This is the equivalent to the Emperor's New Clothes, and is a money-grab of historic proportions. Once again hurting american business through taxation.

Here's a thought... perhaps we should welcome a shove into investing our time and energy into harnessing energy sources that are not oil, coal, or nuclear. There will be a world wide demand for new energy, as exists now for oil, coal, and nuclear power. Do we simply want to be consumers, or do we want to be manufacturers?

No one calls water a pollutant, jackass. We're arguing against the terminology, not the fact that if I walked into a room with only CO2 in it I would asphyxiate.

Obama has taken over as car czar and now we learn he wants to take over health care too. The Man From A.C.O.R.N is doing everything at one time. What a guy.
Government cars and dingy government clinics coming to your neighborhood, soon!

Finally! Some sanity on the Hill! Regressives( Repugnicans) apparently think science is a matter of belief, and in the process of their ignorance would prefer to keep destroying our home, Earth, with no sense of responsibility nor accountability.. Just as they did with the financial system. Laissez Faire...

Lets face it people they are saying inthis bill that we will have several MAJOR scientific brekthrough's within 10 years or so.
I mean wireless power transmission? Supposedly, Nicola Tesla was working on it but when no one could figure out how to charge for the power, they all backed out.
Manytheories state his first large scale test , blew a hole in siberia i.e. -(see the tunguska blast for more info:)
Now nevernmind that we cant transmit power any valid distince ( i think we can do like 2 feet or so but still cant figure ot how to recieve the broadcasted power.
Nw then we also have to generate said power so im asssuming we will have to switch to say giant wind farms, or nucleur plants. the batteriss for the hybrids are very expensive, and the battery acid is very toxic to the enviorment as well.
then we have to invent somekindof clean bio fuel, dont as ke me how, theres not enough pig poop to make enough methane to runa vehicle. besides one good car crash with two methane powered cars, and the resulting explosion will scare everyone to death. dont even guess about hydrigen cars. why not just drive around on plastic explosives. and ethanol? yeah we have so many starving people in the world, but somehow its ok to use food to power cars.
Of course south american ethanol made from sugar is 3 to 1 ratio of cost to use, but al gore led the fight along with brack obama to refuse th sugar and intead use american wheat which has a power to cost ration of 1.34 to 1. WHy you ask?
Because both barak obama and Al gore and baracks choice for energy czar chriss dodd, all own hefty shares of the three largest ethanol makers in this country. bythe way the companies making ethanol? are th three biggest oil companies in the world...peple always said big oil owned bush, well big oil ows obama as well.

"Even if there was no threat from anthropomorphic global warming, we would all benefit from living in a country with a cleaner environment."

No argument. But does that mean the government should spend taxpayer money to "create jobs" that would otherwise have little to no market value, to produce items that nobody wants to buy?

This isn't about the global climate, because if it was, "developing countries" (read: China, India) wouldn't be getting a free pass to dump carbon into the atmosphere while the west is expected to wallow in hand-wringing self-deprecation.

"You probably teach your kids that just because some other kid's stealing..."

This may seem relevant to those ideologues foolish enough to equate carbon output with theft, but what do you have for the reasonable among us, who have no vested financial interest in pollution, who gladly separate their recyclables from trash, and who reject both creationism and the populist green eschatology as religious nonsense?

sky hasn't fallen:

You're absolutely right that I'm bias - just like you are bias. It's called having an opinion. Except that mine is backed up by countless scientific studies, and I have formed my opinion (or bias) after years of study, absorbing differing viewpoints, and coming to the conclusion that global warming is real, and that humans are the root cause. You see, I am a proponent of scientific inquiry as well - I am, in fact a scientist. You claim that I am "missing the point" that this will cost people money. In actuality, I fully realize that it will cost people money... but some things are simply more important than economics.

Further, you say that we need to diversify my intake of information - yes, I read CNN and Boston.com daily... I also read three separate Australian news sites daily, and I have also sought out research on the subject from NASA, National Geographic, and the World Wildlife Fund (among others too numerous to mention). The only news source I actively refuse to get news from is Fox (the last time I watched Fox News was prior to one of the presidential debates - the pundits claimed that Obama had no idea what he was talking about, and that the economy was in great shape). The results of my years of study have been compiled into a blog I created prior to the election: themostimportantelection.blogspot.com

By the way, your claim that the earth is continuing in a natural path is laughable. Yes, Earth goes through warming and cooling periods naturally, but it always occurs over thousands of years. This warming has occurred within the past century. That is not natural.

"You will pay a lot more than now. This will cost you hundreds of dollars (or more) per year." and then you'll insulate your house, finally. that's the point.

LAST TIME I LOOKED THE BUILDING CODE REQUIRED MY HOUSE TO BE INSULATED. IF YOU WANT BETTER INSULATION IN HOMES CHANGE THE BUILDING CODE.

P.S. I'LL HAPPILY DO WHATEVER I CAN TO CLEAN UP THE ENVIRONMENT AND SAVE MONEY. I DON'T NEED TO PAY THESE HACKS MORE OR CEDE THEM MORE POWER IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH THAT GOAL.

The Dems are just trying to get a new tax on everyone so they can spend more money. Pushing through an unproven science is their way of getting even with George Bush. The missing ice in Antarctica that showed up when the NASA sensor was fixed. Over the history of man and before it shows that the earths climate goes through cycles and our carbon footprint did not exist through any cycles before we had cars and Billions of more people and it is not proven that us lowly humans can control the planet. The Dems over the years have fought about nuclear energy, wind energy .and oil exploration, thanks for your help, fools.

This is a sad commentary on the state of scientific literacy (at least among most commenters here. I would invite readers to first, read up on the advances in understanding our climate. Try Science, Nature, Discover, and statements from National Academy of Sciences, other national scientific bodies, and yes, the IPCC. Take it with a grain of salt, but remember that "uncertainty" cuts both ways. We could err in either direction, but a conservative approach, as any engineer will tell you, means we should try to err on the side of caution. It has been clear from physics for a century that CO2 is a heat-trapping greenhouse gas. It has been clear since the 1950s that CO2 levels have been rising -- we can measure this. Temperature trends are also clearly rising, and our data collection is only improving. The myth that we are cooling is based on a short-term "cherry-pick" of data: if you compare to 1998, the hottest year on record, yes, but you have to ignore that long term trends, and all other indications, are toward increases now and for the foreseeable future.

If we are really the "Home of the Brave", let's accept reality, drop the partisan posturing, become healthy skeptics, not poisoned cynics, and show some leadership and entrepreneurial spirit. This is an INCREMENTAL problem, and we can only address it incrementally. Whatever we do now is a start, not the "silver bullet". But fuel (not energy) has been artificially cheap in the short term, and we certainly can expect to pay more, at least until we can develop a new infrastrucure. Sorry, but you will pay more as oil runs out anyway. Coal is very expensive to the environment (mercury, radiation, mountaintop removal, fine particulate pollution, water pollution etc etc). Nuclear is great if you can either de-contaminate the wastes or guarantee its safe storage for several times the current existence of H. sapiens. Many industry leaders prefer cap-and-trade to a carbon tax, and that is one reason it is on the table now -- it is more acceptable, and it has worked for other emissions. Not a new idea.

I hope those of you who are so quick to offer negative commentary will at least try to inform your opinions rather than simply trying to "win by repetition" or hurling epithets and slogans. This is NOT a simple problem, but it is real, and is increasingly serious. The more we learn and observe, the more serious it appears. It is time to get real and act.

What all you naysayers don't take into account is that it's not a question of stopping or slowing global warming, but rather one of not accelerating it. If we can do that, then maybe your kids will have a chance of surviving the century. Don't you think that, even aside from global warming, it's a good idea to stop using fuels sources and technologies that not only significantly pollute the planet but in many cases cost more to extract in money and/or other resources and energy than they save us? The only reason green technologies are still expensive is because they don't have the infrastructure and subsidies that big oil, king coal, and nuclear power do.

"By the way, your claim that the earth is continuing in a natural path is laughable. Yes, Earth goes through warming and cooling periods naturally, but it always occurs over thousands of years. This warming has occurred within the past century. That is not natural."

UAH (satellite measurement) records since 1979 show no abnormal temperature deviation outside what of can be regarded as noise level. This despite ever increasing levels of CO2 (~2ppm/year). Not sure where you are getting your warming from.

mike,
You are sorely mistaken. The climate changes often quite rapidly, according to the geologic record. I fail to believe you are a scientist, especially since you do not differentiate 'bias' and 'biased'. You're on the right track, taking in a few more sources, but citing National Geographic and the World Wildlife Fund as alternative points of view is laughable. Those are completely leftwing environmental groups. Guess you have a ways to go.

Where there is uncertainty, use caution.

Hopefully these ole fossils will disappear into the coal ash they created.

scientific american,
If global warming is caused or partially caused by man emitting excess levels of CO2, then how is this bill any solution? Can you provide any links to any credible scientific documents that show how the reductions claimed by the sponsors of this bill will reduce CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere?

I agree with you that scientific literacy is lacking on the part of many that contribute comments. However there are many with a scientific background that do not agree that man made emissions are the cause of global warming. They have very credible arguments that are as plausible as those coming from believers, yet they are dismissed with insults and called "holocaust deniers". How does that advance the discussion?

You claim that erring on the side of caution demands that we do what we can to reduce CO2 emissions. I suggest that erring on the side of caution argues the opposite. The so-called "solutions" that are offered to this problem are going to mean dislocation of wealth, jobs, standard of living and other measures that reflect quality of life. Do you think that people are just going to give up their standard of living for some unproven theory when there are equally competent and credible scientists arguing for either side? And if we do adopt these "solutions" what do you think is going to happen when they are exposed for what they are - frauds that produce no environmental results but achieve their real goal of redistributing wealth.

There are more threats to the quality and existence of human life than global warming. Given the faults of the human being I suggest they are more real. And the promises of politicians to produce what they claim within budget are dubious - witness the Big Dig tunnel that cost over 10 times it's original estimate, leaks like a seive and has already killed one user. I can hardly blame anyone for being skeptical.

"Where there is uncertainty, use caution. "

So spend and tax whenever we don't know for sure? Do you live your life this way? Very sad.

Scientific American- Thanks for enlightening us. We are so fortunate.
P.S. Perhaps you should read something other than that with which you already agree. Try the Heartland Institute report.

If we doubled the CO2 concentration, it would cause plants to grow larger and faster and with a lower water requirement. The effect on warming would be practically zero, because CO2 absorbs so little of the electromagnetic spectrum. CO2 is only about 1/7 of 1% of the atmosphere now, and its warming effect is tiny compared to that of water vapor, which accounts for roughly 95% of all warming.
Add that most CO2 comes from nature---20% from coal mine fires, most of which will continue to burn until they run out of fuel---and the whole AGW thing looks silly. The most unscientific body I know of is the UNIPCC, and I say that because they insist that their "consensus" is so incotrovertible that anyone who disagrees is of no consequence.

Wow most of these comments are spectacularly stupid. Why don't some of you misinformed dumbasses try googling "Dr. James E. Hansen" and see if you learn anything new today.

Control Control Control...The One World Order Is Underway...It started in The USA with the most left leaning President in all our history and all an in control Democratic Congress.....and is spreading. Any and all dissent will be attacked and crushed...Global Warming is one of many issues that any opposing viewpoint will not be tolerated

We are in a cooling mode not warming . Man at this point and time does not nor can he control the temperature of the earth. We can and we should reduce pollution on our land , air and most important OUR WATER ,RIVERS,OCEANS
Think about where all your crap ends up Its not in the air you breathe its in the water you drink..

Question: How did the Great Lakes form?
Answer: Glaciers
Question: What happened?
Answer: They melted
Question: How?
Answer: I don't know; natural causes I guess.

Quote from unknown meteorologist " I don't know if it is more arrogant to believe in this stuff or to think we can fix it"

Global warming is a farce, a fraud, and a scam!

Re: “which the Bush administration refused to sign”

There was nothing for Bush to sign. Kyoto was already signed by in 98 by Al Gore. Before that, the Senate made clear in the Byrd-Hagel Resolution that they would not ratify it. So, neither the Clinton nor Bush administrations sent it to the Senate for ratification.

Do we REALLY believe that the God who put us here will not keep us here?
If we believe that global warming IS and is caused by man than we must take the trust out of God. Does anyone want to 'trust' this planet to anyone other than....God?

Richard,

It seems when we are uncertain about what to do in thew Midesat, we just drop more nbombs, which of course comes from spending, which of course comes from taxing.

How sad you seem to think your spending on military support for oil is NOT a tax and spend for oil abomination. How sad it is to poison one's brain with mercury from coal, so as to be too stupid to see the cause of your malformed thought proicesses.

Nancy Pelosi needs someones carbon footprint on her @ss. That might joggle her mind to clearer thinking. Somehow, I don't think my $13/paycheck "tax break" will cover my higher energy prices if this is passed.

People are like chimpanzees, with more socialization. They have developed technologies which will help them survive some of the more violent natural transformations that Earth constantly produces, but for the most part, they still isolated geographically, which makes them rely on predictable patterns, which leaves them helpless when bigger regions transform.

To think God put us here is fun food for thought, the reality is we are here and will die and there isn't one shred of evidence otherwise. So what, get over it. Now about that coal ash spill... you think we need more mercury in our diet?

Global Warmming is a Farse.anybody remember the Global Cooling garbage from the 70's?look it up,its the same thing with Global Warming substitutided for Global Cooling.while we are at it,its imposiable for the sea levels to rise from melting Ice Bergs.liquid water takes up less space than frozen water,if you dont believe me try filling a glass bottle with water the put it in your freezer till it freezes and see what happens to the glass bottle,for those of you who dont know what happens it will break.how stupid dose the Goverment think people are?vote them all out!

Why are people/politicians SO STUPID? Nuclear power is the best option to achieve energy independence and to reduce carbon emissions. Nuclear power is clean and safe and many other countries around the world, including CHINA have or are building nuclear plants as fast as they can.. Spent nuclear fuel CAN BE SAFELY disposed of in the YUCCA mountain depository but ONLY WHEN SENATOR REID GOES AWAY somehow!!!

Earl_E
Learn how to use grammar and spell. Then, if you must, call others 'stupid'.

You have got to be kidding, when are people going to stop buying this global warming when the planet is actually cooling and now they are saying that global warming will come back in 20 years. The "Experts" can't even say what the weather will be next week, let alone in 20 years. Even if it does come back in 20 years how much will we need it if the cooling keeps going for 20 years.
This CAP and Trade Bill is just going to make GE and other companies along with the government who have investing money in this scam.

So they way this goes is we pay for health care through higher electric bills. So we have free health care but our electric bill doubles. If a family pays $300 now they will pay $600 for monthly electrical bills. What a deal.

Get ready for every Type of energy you use to go up, up and away in a beautiful increase in cost.

Earl_E,

Who said anything about military support for oil? You must be into the Chivas early tonight.

When people start losing jobs and their standard of living because we have to pay some exoribant and artificially inflated price for energy, are you so far into the Chivas now that you think they will happily do so? And what will we get in return? Sea levels no longer increasing? Says who? Seems like they have been the same forever.

Seems like the scaremongers have gone from terrorism to global warming.

Re Post #14, you said "It's amazing how all these legislatures have bought the manmade global warming hook, line, and sinker." The reality is they may buy it or they may not, but they see it as an opportunity to wield money and power. That's the bottom line for these folks.

Nuclear power are just predeployed dirty bombs for low to midlevel terrorists.

As safe as Chernoble and Three Mile Island, or was that just media hype?

Thanks John for the grammer update, I didn't realize this was a grammer blog.

Richard,
you said:

When people start losing jobs and their standard of living because we have to pay some exoribant and artificially inflated price for energy?

Are you kidding me? Is that why we lost our jobs? I thought we lost our jobs because it was cheaper to pay kids in china to make our shoes because the cost to ship them was so cheap due to military sponsored navigable seaways.

I always seem to pull out the most deluded...

The only global warming is the hot air of the fools that believe in it .Just another way of taxing us !

considering everyone wants to launch a nuclear bomb at us... I don't really see the need to spend money on cleaning our air in 43 years seems kind of silly

And if I am going to live in a socialist nation then I don't care how clean our air is.. the faster i get to heaven the better

We need to ask ACORN if they will bus masses of people to protest in front of Al Gore's house, as well as a lot of the Congressmen/women who are in favor of this. For example, The House & Senate leaders. Good idea? If they only accept pay from the present admin., perhaps we can get someone else to help us.

I can't wait until the year 2075 comes around and we are completely "green" and there's still global warming.... why you may ask? Because humans are not causing global warming! All 7 billion of us only produce 3% of green house gasses. The other 97% is decaying organic materials, volcanos and forest fires! This is simply another one of this idealistic administrations chance to screw the tax payer! I believe we should get off foreign oil dependencies but to increase taxes like this is not right!!!

This is not about Republicans being responsible for global warming. It is about scientific concensus. Cold winter in north america? No global warming here? Just keep listening to Rush, Shawn and Fox (fair and balanced). Their specialty is agitation, not telling the truth. Having personally viewed glacial melt in British Columbia, Norway and New Zealand it is clear that something is happening. So should we go out of our way to use natural resources like we are stuck in the 50's? Money hoarding and funding terrorist oil supplier countries is not a family value. Advise your children to invest in property at least 50 feet above sea level.

It's amazing for me to see what 'global warming' scum does to this country.
Best horror movie promotions have nothing on this one !
Forget about actual problems we are facing - it's suddenly a must to become green doormat for the rest of the world. And it's not just the Obama and his ultra-left cronies - a lot of republicans are in bed with this idiocy.

All I can see are my utility bills going through the roof. How is this "legislation" going to reduce pollution? How is going to reduce consumer costs? Who gets all this money, the government or the "credit" sellers or both? Whose going to monitor all of this and how? Why are all these Amish people laughing?

We must stop this NOW, this will ruin our economy even further. Take it to the streets, starting 4-15-09. Show up at a tea party, they're springing up all over the country. Check out www.AmericanUprisinginc.com and learn from our past. PLEASE STAND UP AND HELP US STOP THIS!

we can control pollution by putting converting coal to energy at the mine sites by building power plants near the mine & sending the power to populace areas on power lines.Instead of shipping around the country on coal trains.Wind turbines will also be beneficial if we can get by unnecessary legislation.

If the cap and trade is passed, all I can say is that there will be a lot of people either freezing to death in their homes in the winter or roasting to death in the summer. I have a husband with cancer and emphysema and am the only one working. I will not be able to afford either the electric or the gas. As it is right now, it's hard to pay the bills already with one small income and all Bama wants to do is think of more ways to try to destroy the US and her people. I am amazed that people were ever so gullible as to vote this person into office.

This legislation must be stopped. We can not set such unrealistic emission standards on our companies, while the rest of the world doesn't. The number of jobs lost will be huge. There has been no proof that humans have created any kind of climate change. The world has not seen any warming this decade. I do like the idea of more solar and wind power, but the country needs to stay competetive in the world with our manufacturing and cap and trade will only send more jobs out of the country for good. Wake up everyone.

Would someone explain how cap & trade will reduce anything except the amount of money in my wallet? We'll pay for someone else's carbon credits, tax the common man & still pollute just as much. Of course, it's 31 Mar & still snowing so I'm not too sure about this "global warming" thing anyway.

Global Warming hasn't been conclusively proven by the scientists. However we're in excellent hands with this administration...let's just throw a bunch of money at it as a time critical project and we can smooth out the details later. I'm sure Jeff Immelt, presidential economic advisor and CEO of GE is in favor of it. It helps pay off a campaign favor and his expertise is legendary......70% decline in stock during his tenure. The windmill tecnology will offset his trade with Iran. Our annual heating and cooling costs will skyrocket and there's the glitch of needing a new power grid.......but these are boring details

OBAMA PROMISED TO CLOSE DOWN COAL FIRED POWER PLANTS, THAT'S GREAT! WHERE WILL THE CAR MAKERS GET THEIR ELECTICAL POWER TO WELD THEIR CARS TOGETHER? WE WILL HAVE ROLLING BLACK OUTS AS WELL AS BROWN OUTS AND WITH THE HIGH PRICE FOR THE POWER, HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL DIE THIS SUMMER FROM THE HEAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO TURN ON THE AC. WELCOME TO THE NEW SOCIALISTS GOVERMENT OF NORTH AMERICA WHERE NOT PAYING YOUR TAXES IS THE NORM.

Great site! What an intellectual, thorough discussion (for the most part). I too once fell for the global warming myth, but came to my senses after failing to find any hard scientific proof whatsoever. All those who blindly believe in global warming, if you truly want us non-believers to be swayed to your side then produce some real science to back up your position. CO2 levels LAG the mean global temperature, they don't lead it. A graph, a flowchart...anything would be good, but leave the biased emotions out of it. As an engineer I understand science, mathematics and proof theory, and so far all I've heard that proves the validity of global warming is emotional pleas and fuzzy logic (at best).

I'm also glad to see how in-touch everyone is with the Messiah's true intentions. Most people I know will excuse his actions no matter what the repercusions, and it's nice to hear from those who can see that his reckless spending and socialist policies are just a smokescreen. This is by far the largest grab for power in modern history, and the fact that most Americans are delusional enough to miss this critical concept saddens me.

Didn't anyone ever tell these idiots in Congress that plants use carbon dioxide and they give off oxygen. If you get rid of carbon dioxide, you kill off the plants, and in turn kill of the people too. Al Gore is a hippocrit if he was serious about global warming he'd stop running around in his gas guzzling vehicles and his private jets. Many scientists have agreed that we are in climate cooling cycle now and that these changes happen every 50-60 years. Pelosi hasn't got a clue, and this cap and trade will raise our utility bills not lower them.

Earl_E:

Wow. You've watched "The China Syndrome" alone, naked and crying in a dark room one too many times. You really misunderstand the nuclear power industry and the risk/reward ratios associated with its power production. Regarding your "grammer", it is a little annoying; please correct it in the future. Thank you for your time and consideration.

G.E.'s shareholders (who stand to benefit the most from this bill) are meeting at a fancy hotel in Orlando on April 22. I say that we have a Tea Party around their hotel and explain to them in the form of a P.R. disaster for them that we don't like the idea. Maybe, since Congress won't listen to us, the corporation will.

As far as Global Warming is concerned, I'm pretty sure that Mt. Redoubt has put more CO and dust into the atmosphere in the last two weeks to out do all that mankind has done since the Industrial Revolution began. If it hasn't, I know that Mt. St. Helen's already did when it blew in 1980. So, regardless of what mankind can do to save the Earth, I think the Earth is too busy destroying itself to care.

Cap and trade has less to do with energy conservation and much more to do with an economic takeover of business. Can anyone explain how "pollution credits" will do anything to help a company reduce emissions? NO, I thought so -it is merely a way to transfer the wealth from the successful companies to the failing or marginal companies by allowing them to "sell" their "unused credits" - some arbitrarily assigned, nebulous concept that has absolutely nothing concrete to do with reducing emissions, it is merely something to substitute as an exchange medium - forcing the confiscatory practice of "penalizing' producers, not entrusting to them the concept of reducing emissions or becoming more efficient on their own.

Amen to that statement Jack L Berry. The warming scare tactics are never backed up with facts. Like the earth has been cooling the last 10 years. Remember if you don't pass this stimulus bill right now the market will crash we did and it did warming caused by man just more scare tactics. = MORE TAXES
PIGS = MORE BAD AIR THAN AUTOMOBILES

I would like someone to explain to me how this legislation will produce "millions of jobs"? The want to build a solar plant in the desert out west but no one wants near them. No one wants a wind turbine in their back yard. So where are we going to put them? Not to mention how it will affect our energy rates. Just what we need...have our energy costs, already too high, go up another 40%.

How do we make up the difference in energy? Solar power?! Maybe, to some extent, but here in Calf., our senator feinstein, blocked the construction of a solar plant in the Mojave desert! She had the backing of the conservationists.

So lets see, the environmentalists say we can't create CO2, and the conservationists say we can build solar in the middle of a freakin desert! So wtf are we supposed to do? Please any of you liberal emo's out there, let us know.

Get your sweaters and checkbooks out America, we are gona pay and freeze.
-Change we can believe in....I believe! I believe we are getting screwed.

Well, they've finally figured out a way to charge you for the air that you breathe. Next they will tax you on how much CO2 you exhale.

Well, they've finally figured out a way to charge you for the air that you breathe. Next they will tax you on how much CO2 you exhale.

This is not a "CAP AND TRADE", this is a "CAP AND TAX". For those who do not have a nuclear plant in their state will pay approximately $3,000 more a year for heat, electric, etc.

BE VERY WEARY OF THIS BILL -
also, CAP AND TAX will be used to fund the socialized medical plan, which is also very costly (your life).....

This is one of the WORST bills those idiots could pass! What happened to not raising taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 per year? The people who voted all of these far left individuals into office should lose their right to vote. I think it's time to end voting as a right and make it a privlege. You should have to know how the Government works and what they are up to in order to vote. They could have a test and issue voter cards, similar to drivers licenses. The craziness has to end before our country does.

I AM TOTALY AGINST THIS CAP AND TRADE BILL, THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HAS SHOWN IT WANTS TO TO CONTROL BUSSINESS IN AMERICA, WETHER BY BAIL OUT OR TAXING COMPANIES, ECT.. HE BAILS OUT THE COMPANIES THAT HE CHOSES, BANKS, AIG, CAR INDUSTRY. HE TRIES TO DISTROY OTHER COMPANIES HE CHOOSES. EVERY THING HE IS DOING IS BAD FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. HE IS TEATERING ON THE EDGE OF BREAKING THE LAW, IF HE HASN'T ALREADY. I THINK WE SHOULD CATCH HIM BREAKING THE LAW AND IMPEACH HIM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE TO RISE UP AND STOP THE INSANITY OF THIS ADMINISTRATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THANK YOU, TO FOX NEWS AND ANYONE WHO REVEAL WHAT IS GOING ON IN WASHINGTON. THERE IS A PASSAGE IN THE BIBLE "YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE". I BELIEVE WITH ALL OF THE COMMUNICATION AVENUES IN THIS DAY AND AGE, IT IS NO COINCIDENCE THAT THE WORLD AND AMERICA SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH WILL SET AMERICA FRE.

If they can restrict CO2 emmissions for industry and energy production, can they at some point tax what we exhale? Will breathing become the next "crisis" to be addressed by the global climate change whack jobs?
By the way--Three Mile Island caused NO injury and did not result in a single death. All contamination was contained, the public, for all the hype and hysteria in the media, was completely safe. That leaves Chernoble-- the only "accident" on record to have caused harm--and look who was operating that one. Accident-- or inevitability?

If we can't use this wonderful technology via computers, electricity, etc., then all agencies that need to have the ability to track forms will require a "paper" trail. All the trees that they claim are saved will now be cut down and turn into pulp to serve their needs. This government will not be happy until we all live in mud huts huddled around a small central fire and use stick spears for defense. We really need them to realize that we, the American public, are NOT that stupid. Here's the transparency they were talking about.... We can clearly see through this ploy as another grab for power and a means to control the constituency.

Cap and trade will make all of America a lot poorer. Our GDP will decline and unemployment will increase. This is precisely what Obama wishes as it will work to extend his power. This amounts to doing something wrong and then benefiting from the evil act. This is called committing a CRIME.

This bill amounts to High Crimes: any crime that injures the country to the profit of an individual or group. Those who have established organizations for the trade of Credits stand to profit enormously while the country suffers enormously.

History clearly and indisputably demonstrates significant climate changes throughout the history of the world: all previous without impact from man. There is NO valid science to suggest in any way that man can reverse climate change.

Does this bill include China and India and Russia? Oh.....I didn't think so. Well I guess we just need to roll up our sleeves put on our O cape and get to work fixing this weather...er...climate....ah....warming....er....change...oh whatever, let's fix it for truth, justice and the American way. Ya HOOO. I think Cape and Trade is more appropriate, but don't get too wound up. This is only one of many plans O and friends have in mind to destroy our economy. On aircraft it is called redundancy. To be sure I have looked at the big plan and this is just one of many things that will take us down. If one doesn't work another will. It's a keen strategy if your goal is the imploseionof the U.S and world economy Hey buck up and enjoy.

How about to the critics of the "doing nothing": Why don't you prove to me that something needs to be done first? There is more correlative scientific data between solar flare activity and atmospheric temperature variations than with CO2 levels, but CO2, which makes plant and vegetable life thrive, is considered by the more radical climate models the villain, in spite of this. Models are, of course, less reliable the more complex the system they represent, and global climate is the most complex system ever represented. If I'm right, the "warming" trend (which all objective evidence shows to have been brief and temporary) will, like the "cooling" trend (that had Greens until the late 1980s fulminating about a "new ice age") correct itself as part of a standard deviation. If I'm wrong, cap-and-trade won't help one iota, because China and India will blow the doors off our numbers. If you're wrong, on the other hand, you've destroyed the U.S. economy for the long term over Chicken Little, and done nothing for the environment whatsoever.

If global warming was really a threat, technologies like fuel cell and solar would be pouring in to the economy and everyone's household. There would be a massive switch over and carbon based fuels would be outlawed and banned. No wait.. that would mean less tax revenue if oil companies stopped selling gas!!! Why not have their cake and eat it too!! Tax us for using gas and for making carbon at the same time!!! Oh what a GREAT IDEA!!!

Hi everyone. You cannot be mad at somebody who makes you laugh - it's as simple as that.
I am from Japan and now study English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Alder flea beetle, macrohaltica ambiens altica ambiens is a chrysomelid beetle which can skeletonize the leaves of its host trees."

Thanks ;). Helen.

Hi all. It's never just a game when you're winning.
I am from Syria and also now am reading in English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Beauty cosmetics, by therefore, the lines were continuously yet fundamentalist, and we department region make to the image very always."

Regards :D Shoshana.