Obama meets with gay leaders
President Obama isn't giving gay rights activists any of the major legislation they want so far. But he is giving them some face time at the White House this afternoon.
The administration invited 250 leaders of the gay community to a commemoration of the 40th anniversary of the birth of the gay rights movement -- the protests that followed a police raid of the Stonewall Inn gay bar in New York.
But despite campaign promises that activists saw as pledges of quick action, Obama has put on the back burner bills to rescind the 1993 "don't ask, don't tell" policy that prevents homosexuals from serving openly in the military and to overturn the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act that defines marriage as between men and women and allows states to ignore gay marriages performed in other states.
In his remarks at the event, Obama asked for patience and reiterated his pledges to overturn "don't ask, don't tell" and the anti-gay marriage law.
"I know many in this room don't believe that progress has come fast enough. And I understand that," Obama said. But by the time he leaves office, the president said, "I think you guys will have pretty good feelings about the Obama administration." (His full remarks are below.)
The president also said he is committed to passing employment discrimination and hate crimes bills that cover sexual orientation, winning applause from those in the East Room.
Among those activists at the reception was Jarrett Barrios, a former Massachusetts state senator who is incoming president of the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.
"It was an honor to take part in this important event for the gay and transgender community with fellow advocates and my 17-year old son," Barrios said in a statement afterwards. "Today's event, the first time that Stonewall was commemorated by the White House, was a symbol of the fact that the administration recognizes our community at a time when there has been growing frustration about his administration's seeming reticence to follow through on campaign promises."
"During his speech today, President Obama said that the road to equality is not only about changing laws, but about changing hearts. Indeed, legal advances are vitally important, but full equality requires us to move our culture - through conversations, living openly in our communities, and through media representations- to a place where gay and transgender Americans are accepted and understood.
"Our community will continue to advocate and will be watching closely to ensure Obama makes good on the promises he discussed today and during the campaign. At the heart of the issues discussed today are everyday Americans who want the same chance as everyone else to earn a living, be safe in their communities, serve their country, and take care of the ones they love."
His supporters say he does not want to alienate conservative Democrats and moderate Republicans, whose votes he needs to pass major legislation on healthcare and other priorities. But critics and some gay activists say he is turning his back on some of his most loyal backers.
Earlier this month, Obama did sign a presidential memorandum, extending benefits to the same-sex partners of federal employees in the civil service and the foreign service.
"For civil service employees, domestic partners of federal employees can be added to the long-term care insurance program; supervisors can also be required to allow employees to use their sick leave to take care of domestic partners and non-biological, non-adopted children. For foreign service employees, a number of benefits were identified, including the use of medical facilities at posts abroad, medical evacuation from posts abroad, and inclusion in family size for housing allocations," the White House said.
But Boston University law professor Robert Volk says that short of overturning the "don't ask" and anti-gay marriage laws, "Obama is very limited in the steps he can take to reverse discrimination.
“Absent repeal of these laws, however, the president could ease up enforcement of the 'Don’t Ask' policy by halting legal actions to discharge gay or lesbian soldiers. He could also stop defending DOMA in the courts," Volk said in a statement.
“For these laws to change, the president has to take a strong stance against them, as Congress is unlikely to act absent some prodding from the White House.”
"His recent announcement that he will grant benefits to federal employees’ same sex partners is really just window dressing, as it does not include health benefits," Volk added in the statement.
THE PRESIDENT: Hello, everybody. Hello, hello, hello. (Applause.) Hey! Good to see you. (Applause.) I'm waiting for FLOTUS here. FLOTUS always politics more than POTUS.
MRS. OBAMA: No, you move too slow. (Laughter.)
THE PRESIDENT: It is great to see everybody here today and they're just -- I've got a lot of friends in the room, but there are some people I want to especially acknowledge. First of all, somebody who helped ensure that we are in the White House, Steve Hildebrand. Please give Steve a big round of applause. (Applause.) Where's Steve? He's around here somewhere. (Applause.)
The new chair of the Export-Import Bank, Fred Hochberg. (Applause.) Where's Fred? There's Fred. Good to see you, Fred. Our Director of the Institute of Education Sciences at DOE, John Easton. Where's John? (Applause.) A couple of special friends -- Bishop Gene Robinson. Where's Gene? (Applause.) Hey, Gene. Ambassador Michael Guest is here. (Applause.) Ambassador Jim Hormel is here. (Applause.) Oregon Secretary of State Kate Brown is here. (Applause.)
All of you are here. (Laughter and applause.) Welcome to your White House. (Applause.) So --
AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Inaudible.) (Laughter.)
THE PRESIDENT: Somebody asked from the Lincoln Bedroom here. (Laughter.) You knew I was from Chicago too. (Laughter.)
It's good to see so many friends and familiar faces, and I deeply appreciate the support I've received from so many of you. Michelle appreciates it and I want you to know that you have our support, as well. (Applause.) And you have my thanks for the work you do every day in pursuit of equality on behalf of the millions of people in this country who work hard and care about their communities -- and who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender. (Applause.)
Now this struggle, I don't need to tell you, is incredibly difficult, although I think it's important to consider the extraordinary progress that we have made. There are unjust laws to overturn and unfair practices to stop. And though we've made progress, there are still fellow citizens, perhaps neighbors or even family members and loved ones, who still hold fast to worn arguments and old attitudes; who fail to see your families like their families; and who would deny you the rights that most Americans take for granted. And I know this is painful and I know it can be heartbreaking.
And yet all of you continue, leading by the force of the arguments you make but also by the power of the example that you set in your own lives -- as parents and friends, as PTA members and leaders in the community. And that's important, and I'm glad that so many LGBT families could join us today. (Applause.) For we know that progress depends not only on changing laws but also changing hearts. And that real, transformative change never begins in Washington.
(Cell phone "quacks.")
Whose duck is back there? (Laughter.)
MRS. OBAMA: It's a duck.
THE PRESIDENT: There's a duck quacking in there somewhere. (Laughter.) Where do you guys get these ring tones, by the way? (Laughter.) I'm just curious. (Laughter.)
Indeed, that's the story of the movement for fairness and equality -- not just for those who are gay, but for all those in our history who've been denied the rights and responsibilities of citizenship; who've been told that the full blessings and opportunities of this country were closed to them. It's the story of progress sought by those who started off with little influence or power; by men and women who brought about change through quiet, personal acts of compassion and courage and sometimes defiance wherever and whenever they could.
That's the story of a civil rights pioneer who's here today, Frank Kameny, who was fired -- (applause.) Frank was fired from his job as an astronomer for the federal government simply because he was gay. And in 1965, he led a protest outside the White House, which was at the time both an act of conscience but also an act of extraordinary courage. And so we are proud of you, Frank, and we are grateful to you for your leadership. (Applause.)
It's the story of the Stonewall protests, which took place 40 years ago this week, when a group of citizens -- with few options, and fewer supporters -- decided they'd had enough and refused to accept a policy of wanton discrimination. And two men who were at those protests are here today. Imagine the journey that they've travelled.
It's the story of an epidemic that decimated a community -- and the gay men and women who came to support one another and save one another; and who continue to fight this scourge; and who demonstrated before the world that different kinds of families can show the same compassion and support in a time of need -- that we all share the capacity to love.
So this story, this struggle, continues today -- for even as we face extraordinary challenges as a nation, we cannot -- and will not -- put aside issues of basic equality. (Applause.) We seek an America in which no one feels the pain of discrimination based on who you are or who you love.
And I know that many in this room don't believe that progress has come fast enough, and I understand that. It's not for me to tell you to be patient, any more than it was for others to counsel patience to African Americans who were petitioning for equal rights a half century ago.
But I say this: We have made progress and we will make more. And I want you to know that I expect and hope to be judged not by words, not by promises I've made, but by the promises that my administration keeps. And by the time you receive -- (applause.) We've been in office six months now. I suspect that by the time this administration is over, I think you guys will have pretty good feelings about the Obama administration. (Applause.)
Now, while there is much more work to do, we can point to important changes we've already put in place since coming into office. I've signed a memorandum requiring all agencies to extend as many federal benefits as possible to LGBT families as current law allows. And these are benefits that will make a real difference for federal employees and Foreign Service Officers, who are so often treated as if their families don't exist. And I'd like to note that one of the key voices in helping us develop this policy is John Berry, our director of the Office of Personnel Management, who is here today. And I want to thank John Berry. (Applause.)
I've called on Congress to repeal the so-called Defense of Marriage Act to help end discrimination -- (applause) -- to help end discrimination against same-sex couples in this country. Now, I want to add we have a duty to uphold existing law, but I believe we must do so in a way that does not exacerbate old divides. And fulfilling this duty in upholding the law in no way lessens my commitment to reversing this law. I've made that clear.
I'm also urging Congress to pass the Domestic Partners Benefits and Obligations Act, which will guarantee the full range of benefits, including health care, to LGBT couples and their children. (Applause.) My administration is also working hard to pass an employee non-discrimination bill and hate crimes bill, and we're making progress on both fronts. (Applause.) Judy and Dennis Shepard, as well as their son Logan, are here today. I met with Judy in the Oval Office in May -- (applause) -- and I assured her and I assured all of you that we are going to pass an inclusive hate crimes bill into law, a bill named for their son Matthew. (Applause.)
In addition, my administration is committed to rescinding the discriminatory ban on entry to the United States based on HIV status. (Applause.) The Office of Management and Budget just concluded a review of a proposal to repeal this entry ban, which is a first and very big step towards ending this policy. And we all know that HIV/AIDS continues to be a public health threat in many communities, including right here in the District of Columbia. And that's why this past Saturday, on National HIV Testing Day, I was proud once again to encourage all Americans to know their status and get tested the way Michelle and I know our status and got tested. (Applause.)
And finally, I want to say a word about "don't ask, don't tell." As I said before -- I'll say it again -- I believe "don't ask, don't tell" doesn't contribute to our national security. (Applause.) In fact, I believe preventing patriotic Americans from serving their country weakens our national security. (Applause.)
Now, my administration is already working with the Pentagon and members of the House and the Senate on how we'll go about ending this policy, which will require an act of Congress.
Someday, I'm confident, we'll look back at this transition and ask why it generated such angst, but as Commander-in-Chief, in a time of war, I do have a responsibility to see that this change is administered in a practical way and a way that takes over the long term. That's why I've asked the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to develop a plan for how to thoroughly implement a repeal.
I know that every day that passes without a resolution is a deep disappointment to those men and women who continue to be discharged under this policy -- patriots who often possess critical language skills and years of training and who've served this country well. But what I hope is that these cases underscore the urgency of reversing this policy not just because it's the right thing to do, but because it is essential for our national security.
Now, even as we take these steps, we must recognize that real progress depends not only on the laws we change but, as I said before, on the hearts we open. For if we're honest with ourselves, we'll acknowledge that there are good and decent people in this country who don't yet fully embrace their gay brothers and sisters -- not yet.
That's why I've spoken about these issues not just in front of you, but in front of unlikely audiences -- in front of African American church members, in front of other audiences that have traditionally resisted these changes. And that's what I'll continue to do so. That's how we'll shift attitudes. That's how we'll honor the legacy of leaders like Frank and many others who have refused to accept anything less than full and equal citizenship.
Now, 40 years ago, in the heart of New York City at a place called the Stonewall Inn, a group of citizens, including a few who are here today, as I said, defied an unjust policy and awakened a nascent movement.
It was the middle of the night. The police stormed the bar, which was known for being one of the few spots where it was safe to be gay in New York. Now, raids like this were entirely ordinary. Because it was considered obscene and illegal to be gay, no establishments for gays and lesbians could get licenses to operate. The nature of these businesses, combined with the vulnerability of the gay community itself, meant places like Stonewall, and the patrons inside, were often the victims of corruption and blackmail.
Now, ordinarily, the raid would come and the customers would disperse. But on this night, something was different. There are many accounts of what happened, and much has been lost to history, but what we do know is this: People didn't leave. They stood their ground. And over the course of several nights they declared that they had seen enough injustice in their time. This was an outpouring against not just what they experienced that night, but what they had experienced their whole lives. And as with so many movements, it was also something more: It was at this defining moment that these folks who had been marginalized rose up to challenge not just how the world saw them, but also how they saw themselves.
As we've seen so many times in history, once that spirit takes hold there is little that can stand in its way. (Applause.) And the riots at Stonewall gave way to protests, and protests gave way to a movement, and the movement gave way to a transformation that continues to this day. It continues when a partner fights for her right to sit at the hospital bedside of a woman she loves. It continues when a teenager is called a name for being different and says, "So what if I am?" It continues in your work and in your activism, in your fight to freely live your lives to the fullest.
In one year after the protests, a few hundred gays and lesbians and their supporters gathered at the Stonewall Inn to lead a historic march for equality. But when they reached Central Park, the few hundred that began the march had swelled to 5,000. Something had changed, and it would never change back.
The truth is when these folks protested at Stonewall 40 years ago no one could have imagined that you -- or, for that matter, I -- (laughter) -- would be standing here today. (Applause.) So we are all witnesses to monumental changes in this country. That should give us hope, but we cannot rest. We must continue to do our part to make progress -- step by step, law by law, mind by changing mind. And I want you to know that in this task I will not only be your friend, I will continue to be an ally and a champion and a President who fights with you and for you.
Thanks very much, everybody. God bless you. (Applause.) Thank you. It's a little stuffed in here. We're going to open -- we opened up that door. We're going to walk this way, and then we're going to come around and we'll see some of you over there, all right? (Laughter.) But out there. (Laughter.)
But thank you very much, all, for being here. Enjoy the White House. Thank you.
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Ah what an uncomfortable relationship Obama has with this part of the Democrat constituency. How can he assure himself of their vote without effectively erasing other votes? Watch him walk the line on this one for years to come. He is skilled enough at it, but how long until the homosexual lobby loses its patience? You know he'd be happy with states continuing to slowly approve gay marriage. To him, it would be the most convenient way to placate this group. Ah professional politicians - just what the Founding Fathers hoped would not happen.
The gays barely register a 2% to 5% of the population. Their numbers cannot swing any election, all gays settle in already bluer than blue states. Obama is goig to pay them some lip service maybe give them an ipod with his top 20 speeches and send them on their way.
Gay citizens have already lost their patience and are now waiting to see if the administration is going to stop stalling and move ahead or else betray us by breaking all of their promises (ENDA, DOMA, DADT). I can tell you one thing, the days when just throwing crumbs and making symbolic gestures was enough to guarantee continued support by the gay population are OVER. The ball is in Obama's court.
Marriage should be between one man and one woman and that's all that's to it. The gays can call it anything they want to except marriage. Maybe they can use garriage or some other stupid name.
There is simply no excuse for Obama's not halting the firing of openly gay and lesbian officers in the armed forces. It is within his power to do so but he does nothing.
And the MEMO announcing SOME benefits to gay federal employees is nothing but placation, a slap in the face, seeing that health care and retirement are not among those benefits. It's a bone.
The DOMA brief by the Justice Dept? Obama should have expressed disatisfaction with its inflammatory, demoralizing content but, alas, he did nothing.
I was disenchanted with the Democratic Party before Obama took office. Now, I'm changing my voter registration to Independent status. Enough is enough.
Equality and justice for all, or this country is full of it. When will the Democratic Party truly stand for that which it professes to stand? I'm tired of waiting.
He does have to walk a fine line. I understand that. Perhaps if this was his second term... Hopefully he'll dump DOMA this term, just like that pesky fly!
After reading about the latest Duke University rape case, where far left wing gay activist , official at the university, was bustd in an FBI sting, for child rape of his 5 year old adopted, African American son since childhood. Videotaping the rapes, and broadcasting them in an irc channel "Perv Dads For Fun", and inviting other gay pedophiles to travel to Durham, NC to molest the child, I don't want to hear squat about "gay rights". Apparently, since 1999 GLAAD, the HRC and other gay rights organizations have threatened media that they would be attacked as homophobic for reporting such cases. Google for info on 13 yr old Jesse Dirkhising, 10 yr old Jeffrey Curley, and google Frank Lombard read the affadavit.
Arkansas
I am happy with the liberals he will put on the Supreme Court but unless he does more, I would just stay home on Election day rather than vote for him. Giving benefits to same-sex couples who work for the federal government helps very few people. Unless I saw DADT ended and a more positive tone, he will lose my vote.
Losing the Crew of the USS John S. McCain
Since President Obama came to office, more than 270 servicemen and servicewomen have been thrown out of our Armed Forces due to Don't Ask Don't Tell. Many of them have been highly decorated and a number have even been put forth by the Defense Department as model soldiers for others to emulate and for recruiting. To put this into context, this is enough talented eager men and women to form the entire complement, officers and crew, of the USS John S. McCain or any other Burke-class destroyer. Or to form the complements of two Seawolf-class nuclear submarines.
In contrast, according to the Defense Dept.'s own statistics, 1 out of 8 recruits to the Army and Marines has needed a moral waiver. (This does not count the number of recruits who enlisted prior to getting convicted.)
There is something wrong when the President and the Armed Forces and the Congress seem to believe that barely literate drug-abusers with histories of violent crime up to and including manslaughter, arson, assault and rape, bomb-making or plain ordinary drug-dealing is a greater asset and less of a threat to discipline and unit cohesion because he is straight than are people who've been awarded medals for valor and who have critical skills but who happen to be gay.
Which would you prefer, to have your son or daughter serving with someone whose picture is on a recruiting poster or with someone whose picture is on a mugshot?
and Jenny (#7) im sure straight people do not commit rape or post child pornography.
the ignorance..
Last time I checked, Gay and Pedophile were two totally different things.
Marriage for all :)
Jenny, that story about the guy in NC is horrifying. He should be locked up for life, or worse. He's a child rapist. I'm not sure what that has to do with gay people though. I'm unfamiliar with GLAAD or HRC's position about it but I suspect it has to do with reporting that does what you are doing: equating the action of monsters with peaceful, law-abiding people. When little Polly Klaas was raped and murdered by a twisted heterosexual male, did it cause you to believe that all straight men should be deprived of their rights?
Jenny: Check your facts. Many more children are abused by opposite-sex parents (teachers, guardians) than by same-sex ones. You should find something a little more truthful to support your position. (Or, were you only interested in agit-prop?)
The Globe should erase #7 and other rants that stray off the topic and are nothing more than a twisted bigot's rant.
Jenny, shall I now compartmentalize all heterosexuals because of people like, say, Mary Kay Letourneau, the female teacher who seduced and had an affair with her 14 year old student? Or Josef Fritzi, the Austrian man who imprisoned and impregnated his own daughter seven times?
How shallow are YOU?
You're going to demonize anyone gay because of the actions of a few individuals?
Are all pedophiles gay? No.
A pedophile is a pedophile, regardless of whom he victimizes; it's not a gay thing, not a straight thing.
I am gay and I assure you, I have not once entertained the thought of being sexual with a child. In fact, I've always liked older, more mature men!
Sounds like you're just ACHING for a justification for what is really just raw bigotry.
DOMA should be overturned and marriage should be a right given to all citizens period. Maybe all marriages should be called civil unions and reserve the term "marriage" for civil unions taking place in churches. The fact of the matter is that DOMA is pure discrimination and to conclude anything different entwines government with religion. Before DOMA, before DADT, before any of these... the separation of church and state was held sacred. Now, the INTEGRATION of church and state seems more the norm. If marriage is so sacred, why can people be married and divorced umpteeth number of times? Where is the sacredness in commiting your life, love, soul, etc. to a different person over and over again? It is this hypocrisy by those that promulgate these discriminatory laws that make religion the butt of so many jokes, and the thorn in the side of America's progress.
Homosexuals are such a small segment of the population that they simply don't matter, which is why Obama is throwing them under the bus.
You don't like it, homosexuals? What are you going to do about it?
Arkansas, I could type up a recounting of every violent crime committed by a heterosexual this year and condemn you all for it too, why waste everyone's time with this drivel where you try to paint millions of people with the same brush as this one sicko?
"Apparently, since 1999 GLAAD, the HRC and other gay rights organizations have threatened media that they would be attacked as homophobic for reporting such cases."
Not at all the case.
If you attempt to demonize the entire gay community by citing incidents of same-sex pedophilia, which is no different than demonizing the entire straight community by citing incidents of opposite-sex pedophilia, you ARE homophobic and you WILL be held accountable for promoting unwarranted, misguided hostility towards decent gay people.
Homophobia and religious extremism. When one studies civilization and finds that the Irish people are 60,000 years old; 54,000 years older than the Jews/Palestinians; Egypt or Greece and that the myth of Catholicism or Christianity is a mere 2009 years old; one soon realises that there is little evidence to prove any of the cross related bogus elements of that cult. In the year 300 AD when Emperor Constantine who to some was the first pope; went on to fabricate Christianity - a fantasy - which turned out to be one of the most hateful & evil concoctions ever perpetrated on the world. The Vatican supported Hitler and religion is responsible for more corruption and violence in the world. Pope Ratzinger was involved in the Nazi youth. The Pope & Vatican with its blatant witchcraft related to the bible and its hateful beliefs; tries to rule with extreme prejudices against the world … that may fall victim to religions' absolute evil. To think of Matthew Sheppard choking on his own blood after being savagely beaten; virtually sanctioned by the church ... is beyond comprehension … yet is the same as boys being bullied into suicide; most likely being supported by their parents’ religious beliefs. What ever happened to … "Love Your Fellowman?” Perhaps the evil preachers should be told to take their cult out of America. Didn't Thomas Jefferson say that church and state should be separated by a wall and it's written in the Constitution that there must be separation of church and state. Bigotry and hatemongering against gays should be banned. Tell them to take that cross and shove it where the sun don't shine ... and pay their taxes along the way before they take that cross down forever ... with its final station; extinction. It is written; so therefore it shall be? We are the chosen people? Who wrote that crap? United States is supposedly fighting for democracy? It is suppressing gay rights and following an extremist religious & bigoted family values path according to a basic cult riding roughshod over the rights of gay people. Canada and Britain are more civilized with its military and basic dignity. We must respect that these fine dignified gentlemen … His Excellency Governor Schwarzenegger, The Honorable Attorney General Jerry Brown, His Excellency Mayor Gavin Newson, Assemblyman Tom Ammiano & The Honorable Rep. Barney Frank (D) who is personally openly gay … are trying to guarantee equal rights and reflect the respect shown to all; as stated in the American Constitution. To see the religious lunatics manipulate government and our lives … is shameful.
This bogus religious filth should be banned. It exists as a tax exempt structure which discriminates against human rights. The pope, bishops and mormons are cult members promoting discrimination against minorities. That bogus black book called the bible should be banned. Religion and the churches should now be exposed as a bigoted structure that gets away with hate mongering. Love between two guys or girls existed long before these cults existed. By enjoying their tax exempt status and benefits from the state ... it also puts them at the mercy of America; to be forced to adhere to the human rights laws. Religion is thriving like a cancerous growth on society that should be stopped in its tracks; outlawed & banned. Interesting global occurrence … Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien told the Vatican that there was to be no cross erected over the Canadian Parliament buildings … figuratively speaking; when the Pope demanded the Prime Minister go against gay rights. An Alberta bishop had the audacity to say that The Canadian Prime Minister would go to hell for going against the church. Such outrageous evil threats; the religious extremists force upon us trying to multiply … with their control over birthing like animals at the pulpit. The Right Honourable Prime Minister … in return; basically told the Pope to go to Hell. With reference to protecting the children. The Honourable Hedy Fry, member of the Canadian Liberal Parliament, who happens to be a doctor spoke eloquently to defend the rights of babies being born and stated that she was in fact defending their rights by speaking on behalf of equal rights for the children and youth of the future; defending their integrity and dignity.
Many theologians state quite correctly that the birth; crucifixion; resurrection and other elements of christianity actually didn’t even happen! Today’s evangelical extremists are like the nazis who cast others into ovens & are actually supremacists - who practice their bogus hocus pocus - and are trying to suppress and deprive others of their happiness and their legal rights in an open and proud society. Liberty College, Oral Roberts University and others should be looked at as tax exempt terroristic training grounds for evangelical lunatics. It was refreshing in his final weeks; to hear President Bush acknowledge that he didn’t believe in any of that religious bunk.
I am the son of a catholic father who never went to church and a protestant mother who took us to church and Sunday school. Although we as young children would sneak out the side door and play by the cannon from World War One where my grand-father fought for freedom as a Sgt Mgr at Vimy and father who fought at Normandy on D-Day for freedom. Onward christian soldiers ... I think not. Such drivel. To be manipulated by a santa claus; an easter bunny and worst of all a bogus cross. One should appreciate each day of life and not expect another ... and if there is it will be given by a God of Love. Pat Robertson should be taken to task for his grandstanding filth. Einstein stated in a letter recently auctioned that the bible was collection of primitive legends. He said believing in God was childish and he as a Jew is no different than another person … not chosen by God. Do you want to be lambs at the slaughter or be wise and reject religious cultist manipulation? Mean & nasty; run by evil and bogus religious cults from Rome or wherever. Is this the world you want? The pope talks about ending prejudice and hate; what a hypocrite!
A great story … pertains to a boy at a catholic school in Oshawa, Ontario … who wanted to take his boyfriend to his school prom. The nasty catholic school forbid this. The boy’s father is an employee with General Motors Canada and the courageous union leader … Buzz Hargrove stood up for the boys’ rights. The boy took his case through the courts and because the school was benefiting from government funding which demands equal rights void of discrimination; the judge ordered the school to allow the boys to attend together. Their limo arrived at their prom with adoring onlookers … there wasn’t a dry eye to be found.
Jenny in Arkansas, so what about all the heterosexual child molestations? Should we ban all heterosexual marriages because of them? And there are more of those than gay ones. Any child molestation is sick no matter the sex of the child.
And to "straight" who says a marriage is between one man and one woman and that's all there is to it" why do you think only straights should have the right to marriage? This is a matter of freedom of religion. Why should the beliefs of any religion influence the laws of this nation? Our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion and there are churches that are willing to perform same sex marriages. Why should they be denied their right to do so for their members? If your Church doesn't want to, that's their business and they shouldn't be forced to, but a Church that is willing to shouldn't be forbidden from doing so either.
Obama's relations with the LGBT community is not about number of votes, though it certainly has bigh enough numbers to swing local elections, it is about money. The community is already starting to withhold contributions from the DNC. If Obama does not improve relations soon, expect that to continue.
Quoting gay pedophilia cases (Duke University case) is completely irrelevent with regard to gay rights, as it is been more than an established fact that heterosexuals have a higher rate of pedophilia than homosexuals. This argument uses fear tactics to play on people's ignorance of the facts and is a tactic of the early anti-gay rights movement. Pedophilia is horrific and for it to happen at all is tragic. But to mention it here in this context makes you look like an uneducated bigot. Get your facts straight first before prosthelytizing about how how homos are worse than heteros... comments like this are only worsening already uneducated fears about the unknown and making inequality not only a part of our country's past and present, but almost guaranteeing inequality in the future.
Jenny, you ignorant fool. Child molestation has nothing to do with homosexuality. You are a terrible person for insinuating differently.
Jenny/Arkansas, 99% of rapes are committed by heterosexual men. And you call yourselves "normal"?
Jenny - there are plenty of heterosexual pedophiles too. Should we then shun all heterosexuals too? For any classification of people, you can find a criminal minority....your comment makes no logical sense, nor is it relevant to the topic of gay rights.
And heterosexuals never do things like that?
straight - homophobic much? "Marriage" is what I call my committed relationship, and I don't want to share that with someone who's not exactly like me.......are you serious? Get a life.
Jenny, when are you and others going to stop confusing pedophilia with people who have same-sex orientation toward adults? Don't you have a date with your brother or cousin to go to?
Health care, retirement and some other bennefits should be given to homosexuals. They can unite among themselves, but unfortunately they can not get married. Marriage =Man+Woman. Do not try to understand homosexuals because for that to happen, you have to get in their world. That is why more and more people are jumping out of the closet. Respecting them is enough, because they are fighting for their rights. The same way that we, Immigrants do. (Including immigrants from everywhere).
Jenny, Don't be silly. The cases you mention have nothing to do with homosexuality and everything to do with pedophilia. Homosexuality is not a crime. Pedophilia is. Since you can't grasp the difference I'll spell it out for you. It has to do with the "consenting adult" thing you can't seem to wrap your feeble mind around. Would you consider all heterosexuals pedophiles because Roman Polanski had sex with an underage girl? No. Then stop being a closed minded dolt.
Jenny has confused the movie Bruno with reality and is promulgating the lie that gay men are not much less likely to sexually abuse children than straight men. It is hard to know what could have happened to Jenny to cause her to become so hateful that she deliberately uses the memory of real dead children to distort the truth about gay people.
If you voted for Obama hoping that he would set you free from the oppression you face because of International homophobia............forget it. He has an all black agenda. Health Care reform is primarily to benefit those without health insurance: Blacks, Sotomayor on the Supreme Court, primary benefit is to Hispanics and Blacks.
As much as I can relate to the frustration of the gay community the politics of the situation are not of Obama's making. Clinton lost serious political capitol trying to most too fast with the military. They have serious clout and can make things extremely difficult. It's just a sad reality of the situation.
But, in any case, what is the alternative. Not vote? Vote Republican? Neither will bring the gay community any closer to their goal. And as much as i support their cause i wouldn't want Obama to forfeit the political capitol he needs for other causes that are certainly as worthy - like health care.
Sure, the gay community should bark at this, but alas, Obama should not fear their bite as the current times make them a bit toothless. It's not fair or right, but then, when is politics fair or right?
Jenny, I'm sure it was 'cause he's gay. It's not like there are any other child rapists out there. Oh, wait...
Seriously, you're making civil rights decisions based on a pervert? I'm as disgusted as you are by his actions, but don't even try to suggest that it's a gayness thing. If he did it to a young girl, would it really be any different?
It's not especially high-minded to put child molesters in the same boat with the vast majority of gays, that, like the vast majority of straights, don't prefer sexual violation of children.
Jenny, like many ill-informed and uneducated citizens, you are confusing pedophilia with homosexuality. The two are not in any way the same, though ill-informed and uneducated people like yourself continue to create this type of hysteria, perpetuating this myth for other ignorant citizens to channel their fear and hostility toward a minority group that you clearly do not understand. I am willing to bet you know a gay person (whether you are aware of it or not), or more than one, who is NOT a child molester.
Statistically, straight men perpetrate more child sexual abuse, perhaps because there are more of them, and yes there are gay pedophiles as well. Look it up.
This type of ignorance--equating all gay men with atrocious acts of child abuse that should be abhorred--is exactly why gays and lesbians need equal protection under the law.
I doubt that any of the gay groups that you mention would call the journalists reporting on the case in NC homophobic. However, your comments are the very definition of homophobia.
It could be worse for the gay community, Romney could be in office or some other right winger. Small Steps we have to think about 8 years.
Jenny from Arkansas - Most pedophiles are straight men. What is your point???
Jenny,
It is very ignorant to compare decent, hard-working folks who only want all the same benefits of marriage as anyone else to such depraved monsters who prey on children. You must understand how incredulous you sound!
"Marriage should be between one man and one woman and that's all that's to it. The gays can call it anything they want to except marriage. Maybe they can use garriage or some other stupid name."
"The gays"
The real motivation behind prohibiting gay marriage is not a desire to "protect" marriage; it is a desire to protect the psychological barrier some straight people have between them and "the gays."
That's called bigotry. That's all it is.
By the way, Jenny, pedophiles can be homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual. Their senseless crimes are heinous no matter what their "sexual" orientation may be. Just read the Globe today.
It looks like Obama is open to negotiations. Who knows? Once he nails the second term, his broad spectrum of "change" will even destroy the very meaning of the word "marriage": a legal union between one man and one woman. After that, various groups with hot shot lawyers and lots of money in their pockets can challenge everything from polygamy to bestiality. America will be known as the epicenter of depravity.
Jenny, dear, you should learn the definition of pedophilia. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. Or do you support heterosexual fathers raping their underaged daughters? Then I supposed Josef Fritzi (google THAT) is your "hero" 'cause he's straight.
To Jenny in Arkansas... Wanna know how many STRAIGHT men have molested their children? No. Maybe you don't. How about uncles, cousins, brothers, YA-DA-YA-DA. It is MUCH more prevalent with straight men.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."
Two consenting adults should have the same rights as other consenting adults.
Regarding the comment from Jenny, yes, there is a small minority of the gay population that are pedophiles, just like there is a small minority of straight people that are pedophiles. Take a look in the "straight" mirror before you take these incidents and try to paint the entire gay population with that brush. The VAST majority of child sexual assault cases in the US are perpetrated by straight adult males, usually with their own children, or with children that they are in a position of authority over.
1. Being gay doesn't mean you're a pedophile. The vast majority of such people are indeed straight. 2. To think and then say that is just pure ignorance, no matter who you are. 3. Homosexual men and women have a greater amount of disposable income, generally having better than average paying jobs and fewer kids, which means that they are a great source of political funds. 4. 'Marriage' in the traditional sense means nothing nowadays to too many people...how many 'traditional man and woman marriages' end in divorce? (Ex: both my parents were divorced before meeting each other.) 5. No one expects a religious gay wedding. Just a fabulous, civil one. (And by fabulous, I mean the gays are willing to spend as much as bridezilla, if not more. Therefore, stimulating the economy even more.) 6. And is 'separate but equal' really true? I think that African-Americans, Latino-Americans, Asian-Americans and anyone else who has been discriminated against could tell you that answer easily. 7. I don't care if you're a hardcore conservative or a communist hippie...love is love. When you find someone you *know* you want to spend the rest of your life with, you shouldn't have to live in fear of not having health insurance that covers cancer treatments, or having to write an explicit will stating 'everything goes to him'. You should expect equal treatment. 8. That doesn't mean you have to like them or agree with them, just respect them as Americans and as people.
"Marriage should be between one man and one woman and that's all that's to it. The gays can call it anything they want to except marriage. Maybe they can use garriage or some other stupid name."
Posted by straight June 29, 09 02:43 PM
Well, that certainly is offensive.. it's that kind of bigotry were trying to change. We will succeed, there are too many of us, and we are NOT a quiet group.
Jenny, there are predators that are straight too. Nobody is saying "lets do kids".
This is a good example of the problems the Democratic Party is bound to come across regularly. As a party that achieves a majority by banding together minority groups, this kind of situation is inevitable. This is a great illustration of what happens when, for example, we try to find commonality between the interests of straight black males and gays. After the feel-good stuff like “we want equality for all” there really isn’t anything practical left that can be applied in the real world.
Re: Arkansas
There are "bad apples" in both barrels (Straight & Gay). Should everybody use your analogy and declare both barrels "all bad"???
Most evil perverts are straight men, proportional to the overall population, but I don't group them all together as a political block. Grouping me or any other upstanding gay man with him is offensive and makes no rhetorical point.
I guarantee every one of you knows someone gay who would be offended by your negative comments. If you take a moment to think you'll realize this is something so personal that it doesn't really count as a negotiable political point to be bantered about, and doing so is incredibly hurtful. Those who have loved despite the prevailing societal winds understand that the heart wants what it wants. We are not falling in love with someone to spite you, or Jesus, or whatever you think. It's how we are made and what we are meant to do on this earth. You may disapprove, but you may not discriminate.
Some homophobe wrote:
"Marriage should be between one man and one woman and that's all that's to it. The gays can call it anything they want to except marriage. Maybe they can use garriage or some other stupid name."
You do realize that gay marriage is not compulsory?
Odumba wrote:
"Homosexuals are such a small segment of the population that they simply don't matter, which is why Obama is throwing them under the bus.
You don't like it, homosexuals? What are you going to do about it?"
Perhaps some of them will bash a homophobe's skull open and urinate in it. Then the rest of us can say "Don't judge an entire community by the actions of the extreme faction which is a small minority."
Why not? Works for the religious bigots.
The whole issue is totally ludicrous. Gays and Lesbians and almost everybody else fall in love and want to get married, others don't. That any one of these groups should take it upon themselves to deny any other group that right to marry in our democratic society is ludicrous. Unfortunately the GOP has used (abused?) fear to divide and conquer, once again to their advantage. To make it seem like it's the Democrats who are at the forefront of the negative direction the issue of LGBT Marriage has taken does a disservice to all concerned. Democrats in the legislature have learned to tread lightly around the issue. President Obama is falling prey to those same Republican tactics as well, it would seem.
What's your point, Jenny? That's one man? How many young girls have been molested by their heterosexual fathers? There are sick people of all types. Child molestation is not a gay problem, it's a problem for society in general.
But, clearly that doesn't matter to you.
No, Obama is walking a line. I knew he would as well. He's trying to play it safe so that he'll be re-elected in 2012. However, he may not get re-elected regardless, so maybe he should use his term in order to effect some real progressive change that will ensure he's remembered for years to come rather than be the mediocre one that followed Bush. I mean, he'll always be the 'first black president' and all that but in 100 years that won't matter. He could, however, be known for so much more.
You don't like it, homosexuals? What are you going to do about it? (#17 by Odumba)
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.” - Margaret Mead
"Homosexuals are such a small segment of the population that they simply don't matter, which is why Obama is throwing them under the bus.
You don't like it, homosexuals? What are you going to do about it?"
Nah, 30-plus million citizens' being unfairly discriminated against isn't anything to worry about.
We're doing plenty...we're vocally communicating with our government. We're writing letters, vowing to cease political contributions so long as our government sanctions discrimination and our tax dollars are used against us. We're using the latest "family values" hypocrite (e.g. Sanford) to further invalidate the arguments against us.
We're continuing the fight, and we're winning.
Meanwhile, predictably, odumba, you merely antagonize and use these forums as an opportunity to disrespect gays and lesbians.
"Sure, the gay community should bark at this, but alas, Obama should not fear their bite as the current times make them a bit toothless. It's not fair or right, but then, when is politics fair or right?"
With all due respect, sir or madam, some of us have had enough with people's rights being casualties of politics.
It's high time our government truly behave like the self-titled "leader of the free world" and follow through with conviction of character.
We need leaders who speak up for what is right, for what is the American thing to do, DESPITE opposing political pressure and despite having to juggle other important issues.
It's a matter of principle. How many Americans are fed up with having to vote in the lesser of two evils.
Why do so few people vote?
Because they feel powerless.
Well, gays and lesbians are among those demanding that our leaders LEAD without compromise on basic principles as vital as civil rights.
Obama is really starting to show his QUEER rainbow colors as of late, as have other past queer loving DEM president hopefuls the likes of Kerry, and Dean, not to mention Hillary and Billy boy Clinton as well. What the hell is with this useless DEM party and their love of HOMOSEXUALS anyway? Every damn time the DEMS get back in power it's always the same old homosexual AGENDA crap over and over again - time after time - again and again to no end! Aren't there better things in America today to fix then always having to cater to these sick idiotic homosexuals and their DEMENTED AGENDA? Next thing we know Obama will the best (queer) man for Barney Franks when he gets his "queer ass fantasy wish" after New York turns into yet another queer ass state to suck up to even more of this ludicrous Sodom & Gomorrah homosexual marriage crap! Pretty soon they'll even be able to rename the 13 original states as the "13 Original Queer States"! It's coming - just give it time folks!
Wow. As a gay man I feel I have moved way beyond the need to explain to anyone the whole pedophilia issue. I also don't feel the need to defend myself from being labelled that way. There will always be people like Jenny who are ignorant and hateful. Thank God they are a very small percentage of the population and most Americans at this point " get it" . By responding to her you've given her the attention she was looking for. She's probably sitting at her computer right now snickering.
Romans 1- “Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened... who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error... they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.”
I am a lifelong Democrat, and I look forward to the end of this administration in three and a half years. At least Bush was honest about his dislike of the GLBT community. This president pandered so he could get into office, and continues to pander. I don't care about his politics in trying to eliminate DADT, but he invited everyone to the White House today and did not apologize for his brief on marriage. The man is a disgrace.
givemeabreak, YOU are the reason this issue won't go away.
So long as ignorant people like you spread senseless hate and promote blind bigotry, and gay teens are committing suicide, and gays are violently assaulted, this issue WILL NOT GO AWAY.
YOU are the problem not gays.
Your post reads like that of an angry middle school student. What's ludicrous is that you aren't mature enough to see your own juvenile, hostile insecurity.
Grow up.
You know, if there is a single INTELLIGENT argument to be made by those who oppose equal rights, I am all ears. However, I have yet to hear one. In a show of mercy, I offer this advice: Using hate-filled words like "sick", "idiotic", and "demented" will not win your side the type of supporters you will need to keep this country from changing - and it is changing, my friends. You are going to need brains behind your arguments, and to be frank, the more a person intellectualizes the issue, the more it becomes apparent that the issue is not about sex. It is not about gender. It IS, however, about morality. The fact is, it is not moral to treat people with such hate. It is not moral to pass that behavior on to the children you claim to protect. And it is certainly not moral deny any human equal protections. This is simply about equal rights and the protection of all humans. The sooner you take on language that addresses THAT topic specifically, the better your chances of drumming up support. Fortunately for me, my partner, and my community, you just continue to make it easier and easier to make our point.
Stonewall proved it as did those early Colonists who spoke out at the Cradle of Liberty here in Boston. It only takes a few to speak out against prejudice or to stand up to injustice and to those who would prevent an America with Liberty and Justice for all.
So long as we try to silence ideas or opinions that differ from our own; so long as we do not defend to the death one’s right to express those beliefs, we cannot honestly say that we are free – or that we love America.
Silence has never triumphed over anything. We may believe we’ve done the right thing by avoiding a conflict, but merely not agreeing with the remarks of a bully or bigot neither ends his bigotry nor makes us a better person. If the only voice the bigot hears is his own he grows louder and that much more secure in his standing.
Still worse, impressionable minds will follow that single loud voice because you - not the bigot – never allowed them to hear yours. All people everywhere should have the right to "marry" - not merely "Civilly Unite" with the person they love.
Cry "Freedom", America!
Obama says these things take time? Didn't he sign an executive order regarding Gitmo detainees because of the unfair treatment they were getting...and he can't ensure basic rights to Americans (GLBT Americans)?
Jenny from Arkansas is EXACTLY what I was worried the DOMA ruling would do to people. Obama has actually managed to defame us to this degree where our loving commitments are compared to such disturbing acts of evil. I don't know if I (as a bisexual woman and victim of childhood sexual abuse) can forgive Obama for not standing up, and even defending his administration for comparing homosexuals to incest and child sex abuse.
Jenny, how bout this. I'll be honest with you. I was raped as a kid, and I am bisexual. Proudly, happily, bisexual. The man who raped me was a straight christian.You want to tell me again how consenting adult gay couples should not have rights because we're all a bunch of child rapists?
Tell me, right here and right now, that I am as evil as the man who made my life a living hell. People as ignorant, stupid and hurtful as you make me sick. I would wish you to be horrifyingly beaten and raped, so that you would KNOW the difference, except for that I know what it feels like and would never wish it on anyone, no matter how evil I perceive them to be. And I do perceive you as evil. Ignorance of this calibur is absolutely despicable. THINK, READ AND LISTEN TO PEOPLE BEFORE YOU SPEAK ABOUT THAT WHICH YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING.
Well its so good to see that the homoPHOBES of the world are out to haunt the posts today - thanks for your endless spews of CHRONIC IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY - what dolts! - - Much has been accomplished and much will still be achieved - FEAR AND IGNORANCE are the mind killers and there are a lot of dead folks online today - MARRIAGE EQUALITY and FULL GAY RIGHTS are envitable and will be a FACT of our lives much sooner than most of you realize - its all in the timing (this President is far more shrewd than most of you realize) - NOW is there anyone out there that wants to post something INTELLIGENT or GERMAINE to the article?????
What a coward we have in the President. What next? Will he grant rights and cow-tail to people who have a sexual preference for/with animals. Sexual preference is a lifestyle, not a reproductive act recognized by the rights we've given normal adults.
Wow. As a gay man I feel I have moved way beyond the need to explain to anyone the whole pedophilia issue. I also don't feel the need to defend myself from being labelled that way. There will always be people like Jenny who are ignorant and hateful. Thank God they are a very small percentage of the population and most Americans at this point " get it" . By responding to her you've given her the attention she was looking for. She's probably sitting at her computer right now snickering.
"And all we want is equal rights (there is no hidden agenda.)"---Grant MacDonald
What you guys seem to forget is that Obama has to be re-elected, too. I predict there will be a lot of gay-friendly policies in his second term, if he gets one- they can't vote him out, and who's going to remember him badly for letting gay people serve in the army, or visit each other in the hospital?
Not to mention he has Iraq, Afghanistan, the economy, etc. on his plate. People have no patience. Give it time. Change comes really slowly.
Why is Grant (#20) ready to believe what he has read elsewhere and yet not ready to believe Holy Scripture's message of salvation et al? Scripture points out that people will believe in what they want....1 Corinthians 1 v 18.....For the message of the cross is foolishnessto those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate"..
Shirley Anne
Shirley : That is merely one interpretation of one scripture. There are many other interpretations, other translations, other scriptures. What makes yours more valid than anyone elses? Nothing. You have no more proof that your bible is any more accurate or true than anyone else does. In addition to that, you are reading a many times translated, many times edited, incomplete volume. To attempt to take that in a literal sense is foolhardy. Far too many people wish to read the bible as if it were written in English, 20 years ago. Simple fact is, unless you speak German, Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Ancient Greek, you have *no idea* what the bible says about anything. So I wouldn't be too shocked when people lend more credibility to documents written in modern times, by modern people, in modern language, than they do to your bible.
WOW...We have our work cut out for us.. To have to "change the hearts" or better yet " change the stupidity " of our top winners of the day.. Ready?
The dumb, dumber & dumbest person of the year awards go to..
In third place: # 4~ Straight. His prize is a dictionary.
In second place: # 7~ o DUMBa. His prize is a name change to o DUMBERa.
and in first place by unanimous decision and truly, the most deserving of anyone I have ever encountered, goes to... # 7~ Jenny!!! ohhh.. Jenny, Jenny, Jenny.. Your dream to be recognized has finally come true!! Our panel of judges who responded to your comment, as well myself, were very surprised you could even read or write at all. What prize could the dumbest person of the year appreciate? Well, we made a few phone calls and I must say, we are quite happy with what we came up with..
A small glass case.. It is empty now but one day it will hold YOUR BRAIN. Which will one day go to the Smithsonian, to be on display for the world to see. The brain of the dumbest person that ever lived. (cheers & applause)
Meanwhile, the world is changing. LGBT Americans will see equality in the workforce, military & my personal favorite, immigration. America is the land of freedom. It's hard to believe we were not the first to put forward gay rights for marriage like Spain, UK, Canada and many others. Obama, you said "Yes we can" make it happen THIS year. We have waited long enough.
Sincerely,
Ocean.
Jenny, stand your ground.
Do you know why there are more case of straight men molesting children than gay men? You see, heterosexuals are 95-98% of the population! So, Jenny, what they are actually telling you to do is ignore the children gay men rape. They are saying that the number of children they rape is on the whole, statistically inconsequential so it really shouldn't concern you. Unfortunately, those innocent African American babies fall into the insignificant catergory. Tough luck, huh? But, if I were you, I would check the real statistics of gay molestation and make up your own mind (hint, don't use GLAAD or HRC statistics).
On the other hand, the Catholic Church might disagree.