House unveils healthcare overhaul bill

If you liked the climate change bill recently passed in the House, you're gonna love this one.

Just what this country needs, a health insurance bill patterned after the Massachusetts bill which is not now and never will be financially sustainable.

I don't think Obama should be allowed to use the words "fiscal sustainability". This is the most irresponsible, arrogant, and irrevocably damaging proposal of this administration thus far.

If you believe anything you see or hear, you're only kidding yourself. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. The cost overruns in MA and the poor standards of care in other nations with socialized health care are crystal clear.

It will be sad when people finally wake up and realize that it's the people class people who will be paying for this with higher taxes, lower salaries, while still shouldering the burden of insurance premiums.

A sad day for America.

p.s. This is NOT an endorsement of our current system. Broken as it may be, this proposal will be worse.

A popular way to avoid paying for an employees health care and other benefits, is to only hire contract labor, "freelance".

The idea of tax further is terrible . It takes savings and capital to create jobs , a small companies have created 80% of the new jobs in Congress is simply making capital formation more difficult.
As a gesture of good faith, Congress should consider are producing their health care benefits to same as those provided by Medicare and putcapss on their reitement income.
Many of the people in Congress, has never had a real job and have no feeling about the economy and how it works. I hope that the healthcare reform bill is put on hold until and business together come up with a sensible plan;

GOD SAVE US FROM PELOSI AND OBAMA!

Any mention in the bill about not providing health care for illegal aliens? I doubt it as that would take a sizeable chunck out of the "50 million uninsured" number Obama loves to throw around.

If this passes the USA will go bancrupt. Not that the Dems seem to care.

Share the wealth, millionaires. Soon all your money belongs to BHO!

Why do I get this feeling this millionaire surtax in it's final version will be assessed to anyone earning more than $250,000/yr?

Really Will.... your logic is RIDICULOUS!!!! So because I'm going to pay more in taxes I might as well not try and make more money? You right wing nuts are ludicrous. All you do is whine whine whine..... SHUT UP AND PAY YOUR TAXES!

We keep hearing about the necessity for tort reform in order to lower insurance premiums for doctors. The real solution is for good doctors to stop protecting bad doctors. It is like any other profession such as police or teachers. If the good ones would honestly help weed out the bad ones everyone would benefit. We have the greatest healthcare in the world and even the poorest of us have access. If you want the same care I get then GO TO WORK every day like I do.

From the same people who have controlled Healthcare since the '60's, this is reform? They should sell whatever they're smoking and use that money for healthcare. It is unbelievable that anyone believes this group of liers.

are you people serious?! how can you come out against making rich people pay a TINY bit more money so that poor people can have health care?! unbelievable.

Does it exempt the Congress from it's provisions.

The legislation would be paid for by a federal income surtax -- up to 5.4 percent on the income of taxpayers making more than $1 million a year -- plus hundreds of billions of dollars in cuts in projected Medicare and Medicaid spending.
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TRANSLATION:
We are going to gutt the coverage for senior citizens, because they are cheaper to care for when they are dead.

This proposal controls the skyrocketing cost of health care by rooting out waste and fraud and promoting quality and accountability.
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Has the government ever ever ever ever been able to live up to this claim?? The fact that they still try to make it stick is dangerous and stupid.

Its savings of more than $500 billion over 10 years will strengthen Medicare and contribute to our goal of reforming health care in a fiscally responsible way.
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Liberals would never agree to this assertion in any other arguement. Reducing funding to a program is a mortal sin, why is it good now. Bush wanted to reign in spending on medicare and the congress skewered him like they did on social security reform. The Democrats argued that we would be hurting vulnerable people by cutting medicare. Now its seem to be fine.

It will change the incentives in our health care system so that Americans can receive the best care, not the most expensive care.
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You cannot have good care unless you pay good money for it. Anyone who believes this believes that you can get something for nothing. Do you really believe you can get the best car for for less money, or the best education for less money. This is a flat out distortion from reality.....

And it will offer families and businesses more choices and more affordable health care," he added
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Do you really think the the government is going to let the government brand fail, or do you think they will do everything in their power including rigging the rules in their favor to keep their brand alive. They will do what any brand does.. SEEK TO ELIMINATE COMPETITION... But they can use legislation, people will have less choices in the end if the goverment is allowed to enter the market. Do you think Social Security would still be around if people were not COMPELLED BY LAW to contribute. If we werent the system would collapse tomorrow.

"The House proposal will begin the process of fixing what’s broken about our health care system, reducing costs for all, building on what works, and covering an estimated 97% of all Americans. And by emphasizing prevention and wellness, it will also help improve the quality of health care for every American.
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TRANSLATION:
reducing costs for all-------- government will reduce costs by rationing care
building on what works----- This is about as vague and quantifiable as a supposed "saved job"
covering an estimated 97% of all Americans------ Wait a minute ESTIMATED?? AND 97%...... So I thought the promise was to cover ALL AMERICANS. I guess even the most committed partiisan cannot regurgitate that lie.

And by emphasizing prevention and wellness, it will also help improve the quality of health care for every American.
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Here is your government mandated plan for the way you are going to conduct your life or else the governemnt will refuse to pay for your treatment. This is exactly the way they do it in Europe. If you deviate from your plan, say you dont bring down your body mass index to the government required level you will not get a heart valve stent or teatment for cardiovascular disease. BUT...... You still have to pay into a system that will refuse you care. You will pay into a system your entire life to have a Washington bureaucrat figure out an equation wether you are valuable enough to be worth the expense of saving.

I think this is a great idea and am looking forward to making progress towards building something that works for everybody. Remember back when education was private? Now it's socialized and everybody can get a basic education. It takes time, all you naysaying putzes need to get over your greed and be patient.

So they based this on the Mass Model? I guess they failed to take into account For example, more than half of those newly enrolled in health coverage in Massachusetts are in free or heavily subsidized plans, causing significant budget pressures for the state. Rising costs for health coverage and health care pose the biggest challenge to the success of the reform effort. And physician and medical workforce shortages have been exacerbated, with half of the state’s internists and family physicians closing their practices to new patients.
This is NOT the solution.

budget as well as the pocketbooks of citizens.
The state's overall costs for health programs
have increased by 42 percent since the reform
legislation was enacted in 2006.18

The reality is our glorious well run government which has run up huge spending bills/debt and has bankrupts both Social Security and Medicare is now going to be trusted to run private insurance for a minority of the populations.

There is an easy solution but common sense is not how our friends in DC work, perhaps because they are all attorneys and simply do not have the ability to think in simple terms.

Here is all we need to do:

1) Eliminate all of the fraud and abuse in the Medicare and Medicaid systems

2) Use these funds to provide insurance vouchers for the uninsured

3) Stop paying life time benefits to out congressional leaders. When they leave office they lose their benefits or they can pay COBRA like the rest of us. The same should be true at the state level. These funds could again be used to help fund programs for they truly uninsured.

4) Provide care for children and catastrophic care for all families. What we all fear is losing everything we have due to a life ending illness which consumes 80% of the health care dollars.

5) Provide tax incentives to employees that live healthly life styles and disincentives to those that do not. Choice should be the option and proper choice should be rewarded. Or should I say accountability should be rewarded!

6) Open urgent/acute care centers outside of key hospitals. These centers would triage patients for appropriate care. If needed they can go across the street to the hospital, if not they can be treated at these centers. This will drastically reduce hospital costs. If the patients can not pay then provide incentives for these facilities in the form of tax breaks to help them cover non-reimbursed expenses.

Pretty simple but not complicated enough for our beloved political leaders.

Question for those who do not support tort reform. Are we (the people/tax payers) going to be on the hook when the "newly insured:" begin to sue us? It will happen and it could very well be someone that has never paid a dime in taxes and not a citizen of the U.S. I am confident that the trial lawyers will make sure that they still have this ability. If so look, out......hear comes the judge!

Such fatuous whining. Look at where the money goes today. The Health Insurance companies and big Pharma, with those TV adds for medical care that you did not know you needed (and probably don't!). The Insurance companies get over $400 billion in adminstrative costs and then deny your medical bills. Don't you realize how close to bankruptcy you are if you get sick or have an accident. And remember, then you will never get health insurance again since you would have a pre-existing condition. People have been denied cancer treatments because they had acne treatments in their youth.

Follow the money... Who is getting into healthcare today? physicians are leaving it, hospitals are closing, but there are new HMOs and Insurance plans every month...

Try thinking for a change...

Please, the plan is perfect, Obama is perfect and very sexy too!

Hi, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you!

Die.

Question for those who do not support tort reform. Are we (the people/tax payers) going to be on the hook when the "newly insured:" begin to sue us? It will happen and it could very well be someone that has never paid a dime in taxes and not a citizen of the U.S. I am confident that the trial lawyers will make sure that they still have this ability. If so look, out......hear comes the judge!

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government. " From the Declaration of Independence. It's getting near time to exercise this right.

Democrats are a train reck.... vote them out in 2010 and 2012 or we will have nothing left. Can we send them to Gitmo?

Why are you defending the rich? Its for people (NOT Businesses) making one million a year. This will save businesses and provide us with another option. I hope you all were outraged when we attacked a country who did nothing to us. Spend over a trillion dollars in Iraq, killing our soliders and Iraqi civilians. This bill provides our people the help they need. This is a WE country NOT a ME country. “This is just another incentive for poor people to do nothing” (flat out wrong). We already pay higher taxes because of the uninsured going to the hospital for treatment right now as I type this. A nation that is healthy and wise is a lot harder to govern. Keeping the weak and poor down so they do not vote and feel as if there is no hope. Making you afraid of it and telling you who’s to blame for it. That’s what the republicans know

Fact: You can be absolutely certain Congress and the Administration pesonnel will be exempt from being affected. Fact: You can be absolutely certain unions will be grandfathered in so they can be excluded. Fact: You can be certain the final tax threshold will be closer to 200,000 then 500,000;

How appropriate that this comes out on Bastille Day. We have become France.

Who are the 3% that will NOT be covered? Federal employees and congress? It says only 97% will be covered?

The most terrorizing words in the english language "I'm from the govt. and I'm here to help". This Massachusetts modeled plan is bankrupting Mass, now it can continue the bankrupting of the US. What a glorious day for the progressive left as they continue to dismantle our economy. The engine for this program are the rich and assumes that they are making money, based on the economy and actions of the govt. this is not a sound assumption. This health plan coupled with the disaster of cap and trade is going to send all remaining manufacturing and computer jobs overseas.

We will continue our transition to a complete service based economy, unfortunately without a manufacturing base there is little to service. In the end we will have the very rich financing offshore operations and everyone else one the dole, this will destroy the middle class.

"Unprecedented cooperation"? The Republicans were shut out of the process! Obama lies so blatantly and so cavalierly it is frightening.

The Democrats could confiscate every dime from people that make over $200,000 and they still wouldn't come close to paying for this monstrosity of a bill. They are totally dishonest with the numbers. WELCOME TO THE DEMS NANNY STATE. When are Americans going to wake up and vote these people our of office?

""That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government. " From the Declaration of Independence. It's getting near time to exercise this right."

Agreed. Secession or revolution, through the ballot box or by the 2nd Amendment, it's coming.

1. I am glad that BO finally did something. Other presidents didnt have the b*lls to even touch this political football, BO did, and I find it refreshing.

2. I agree that everyone should have equal access to quality healthcare. And I think most sensible people would agree with that....

3. I also agree that 5.4% of 1M is a lot....to quantify it, that is an extra $54,000....which is not a small amount of money.

That said, I say lets give this thing a shot, and see how it goes.

Also, I find it funny that so many folks are rushing to defend the wealthy, when they themselves are NOT wealthy. Nor will they likely ever be wealthy. This provision might effect what...less then 1% of the population? Obcourse right wing radio pundits will lambast this move as socialistic, and rile allot of these nitwits up.......but also most of these neanderthals make more than a million bucks...severin, savage, fatso limbaugh, etc....

And before you go shouting statistics about the socialization of healthcare, I encourage you to watch the youtube video of Dennis Kucinich debating Dr David Gratzer - I watched this video and the alarmists stats that the political right throws up whenever this comes up doesnt hold much water when compared to the actual facts!

It amazes me we have so many damn experts on either side of the health care issue! These people listen to the media (which is biased for one party or the other) and you think they have all the facts. The one truth is both sides agree the health care system doesn't work today and we need to fix it! President Obama, right or wrong has been elected with health care as a key part of his platform. He has a high probability of getting his Health Plan approved. If it works he is re-elected and if not the Republicans will get their chance. That's what Democracy is all about!!!!!!

Additional money taken from me to support those who for the most part do not want to put forth the effort to earn a higher income? No way! Now is the time to aggressively work on lowering your AGI while concomitantly planning for the next Boston Tea Party.

I'm not sure why all you right-wingnuts here are lamenting the possibility of non-employer-based health care options, since it doesn't sound like any of you have jobs.

The government couldn't even figure out how to hand out bottled water at the Superdome after Hurricane Katrina (FEMA). They can't educate our children (DoE). They can't deliver the mail to the correct address (USPS). They can't control monetary policy (FED), so now we're going to let them take socialize healthcare.

The spacious logic exhibited here astounds me.

Obama has solved all of our economic problems - we should let him take over health care as well.

Lest we forget that the Bush tax cuts expire after 2009. So, the potential 2010 federal tax increase on those who earn a million dollars is:

2009: $1,000,000 @ 35% = $350,000
2010: $1,000,000 @ 39.6% = $396,000 -> PLUS Health Care Surtax of [Up To] 5.4%

All FOR the millionaire tax.
Listening to Republican Conservatives and their dogma have gotten us to where we are today: paying double and triple what the rest of the world pays, and getting lousier care. Infant mortality, lifespan...US ranks poorly. Paid any insurance bills lately? It's unbelievable, the way costs keep going up. For what? So I can support some suit in an Insurance Company??? Sorry, we need MAJOR CHANGES, and yes, SOMEONE'S GOTTA PAY THE BILLS....The millionaires were making out like bandits during Junior Bush's Reign of Error..it's time they paid.

Hey Bones,

Is everybody who dislikes this legislation a whiney, republican millionaire?

I had no idea so many visited boston.com.

Stealing from the rich is still stealing. Socialism becomes communism when there are more takers than givers and the ballot box replaces the gun.

Yeah, Will. Shut up and pay your taxes, like Bones says. Don't you understand that the sole purpose of your existence is to quietly assent to having your paycheck looted by government, so that our elected solons have a source of funds with which to buy votes from favored constituencies?

Fact: You can be absolutely certain Congress and the Administration pesonnel will be exempt from being affected. Fact: You can be absolutely certain unions will be grandfathered in so they can be excluded. Fact: You can be certain the final tax threshold will be closer to 200,000 then 500,000;

"Hi, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you!

Die".

Ronald Reagan's policies and the ensuing 25 years of following his mantras is precisely why we are in the mess we are in today. Reagonomics is as much a failed system as Communism. Capitalism without regulation is NOT a principle this country was founded on. When profit margins, stockholder compensation and ability to pay, dictate how health care is administered - IT HAS BECOME A FAILED SYSTEM. Anyone who thinks otherwise, needs to have their heartless soul admitted to a mental institution to have their head examined!!

This is a terrible idea. Look at what happened in California and NY when they relied on large amounts of revenue from a relatively small group of people - when times got bad the incoming revenue fell off a cliff. Make no mistake this is just the 1st step, because they simply can't get enough money out of that small group of people to pay for ~50 million people's health insurance. This "surtax" will inevitably find its way down to the upper middle class workers who still do work for a living. This is a terrible idea overall at a terrible time, the private economy can't afford for the gov't to come in and take a a few $100 billion at this time. This is a disaster waiting to happen, good job Obama/Pelosi.

Nick writes: "are you people serious?! how can you come out against making rich people pay a TINY bit more money so that poor people can have health care?! unbelievable."
So, Nick, for you 5.4 percent of your income is tiny? And where does this lead us?
Will the rich be asked to pay so poor people can eat what rich people eat? That's fair, right? So poor people can have the same car or boat or house or whatever as rich people? Where does it stop?

The poor were getting health insurance anyways (by showing up at the doorstep of every hospital's emergency room).

Even if you have Insurance, these companies are denying claims and requests for emergency medical treatment. 18,000 die every year due to not having insurance they cannot afford. People are losing their houses due to medical bill issues. Something must be done.

Lest we forget that the Bush tax cuts expire after 2009. So, the potential 2010 federal tax increase on those who earn a million dollars is:

2009: $1,000,000 @ 35% = $350,000
2010: $1,000,000 @ 39.6% = $396,000 -> PLUS Health Care Surtax of [Up To] 5.4%

Fact: You can be absolutely certain Congress and the Administration pesonnel will be exempt from being affected. Fact: You can be absolutely certain unions will be grandfathered in so they can be excluded. Fact: You can be certain the final tax threshold will be closer to 200,000 then 500,000;

Reducing health care costs will help our business compete overseas and Americans enjoy a better quality of life. This costs far less than the apx. $1.8billion Bush tax cuts and wealthy people did fine before then.

My principal issue with the way the bill is paid for is that raising a progressive tax on ordinary income does not address the disparity between ordinary income and capital gains; and capital gains is far more likely to be the income of the non-working classes. Still, this bill is certainly a step in the right direction, if far from perfect.

I've got a great idea. How about we take all the money being paid to lobbyists and the money they are pandering to our politicians and put that money in the bowl. Then take another 75% of the money that Pharma is advertising on television pushing their drugs and put that in the bowl. Then revoke the $1.7 billion paid to the CEO of one of the top Health Insurance companies last year and throw that in the bowl. That will give us a good first down payment toward health care coverage for all !!

We have just become FRANCE!

Taxing the most productive and successful members of society to pay for others has never been, and never will be a long term viable solution. Steal in the short term and stop flourishing in the long term.

This is a total disaster for our healthcare system and our economy. It guarantees no economic recovery, deeper deficits, higher taxes, higher healthcare costs, less access to healthcare and a decrease in the quality of our care. Write Congress. Don't let this stand. It won't be a bell that we will be able to unring.

I will now pay my accountant 4% to shelter that income from taxes. Liberals refuse to understand the higher the tax rate, the more motivation to avoid taxes.

Ronal Reagan recognized all the unproductive work that was being used to avoid paying high taxes. All the time and money lawyers, accountants, financial people and I spend to legally avoid paying high taxes does not contribute one bit to national productivity.

Keep taxes low and simple and more people will pay them. Then all those other professionals will do something actually useful.

Obama-ites scoff at claims they are socialists....here's the proof.
The same discredited snake oil ..."soak the rich"
Been there, done that.. Doesn't work.
Doesn't matter, the sponging parasites outvote the productive.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
Why only 5% surtax? ..Why not confiscate everything from the "rich"?

California here we come. Obama and Pelosi will drive us into bankruptcy. This is a small business job killer. There is not enough money anywhere to pay for all the spending that these two are determined to do.

Did anyone really think that this motley crew of politicans could craft legislation that made any sense? We as voters knew that Congress and the White House would act and behave this way in November so today is no different. Our fundamental problem is not based on our two party system, our issues are central to the quality of people who are running our government. How many successful business leaders sit in Congress? How many Congressmen have ethical and legal issues or perhaps gotten away with tax evasion, kick backs and murder? We have elected unqualified citizens to the highest offices in our country who continue to deliver dismal results and yet we only complain about it. Until we elect people who have proven track records of business success, ethical standards and a willingness to put this country over one's self interest, we will be on the same path as any other extinct society.

Nick do you know what 5.4% of a million is? It's about as much as I make in one year.

Do you really consider that a 'tiny' bit more?

There is nothing right about taking from people who earned, and giving to people who didn't. Robin Hood is a FAIRY TALE

"All men are created equal" - except if you work hard to make a lot of money. Then you get to pay extra.

Now, I am neither rich nor poor. Genuine middle-class person here. But please, libs, tell me why rich people should have to pay more. If this is the land of equality, why would anyone need to pay anymore (percentage-wise) than anyone else?

THAT is called SOCIALISM. Look it up.

Also, I find it funny that so many folks are rushing to defend the wealthy, when they themselves are NOT wealthy. YES WE DID.

It's just like when the not wealthy keep voting in Ted Kennedy who knows nothing about being poor.

Why can't the rich just stop being so selfish? The people of this country need healthcare insurance. They are being charitable in only taking 5% when they deserve to take at least 10%.

The rich in this country need to have a lesson given to them. They need to read the Obama Dictionary for Modern Socialism and look up "selfish" and "selfless". "Selfish" people are people who pay more money out of their paychecks than anyone else to support others this country. The "selfless" are people who are entitled to take what they want from the "selfish". The "selfless" also have no responsibility to contribute to others and are free to use what they take from the "selfish" without restriction or accountability.

The plan should be - If you don't contribute you die period. No food, no shelter no healthcare. I'm sick of having to donate to the cause of the lazy people. If you can hold a cup - you should be pushing a broom. You want welfare ? Your not allowed to own a couch or a tv or buy Doritos. Keep pushing the buttons lefties. It's coming soon. We're not going to take this crap much longer.

The plan should be - If you don't contribute you die period. No food, no shelter no healthcare. I'm sick of having to donate to the cause of the lazy people. If you can hold a cup - you should be pushing a broom. You want welfare ? Your not allowed to own a couch or a tv or buy Doritos. Keep pushing the buttons lefties. It's coming soon. We're not going to take this crap much longer.

Every western industrialized nation on earth has universal health care- the nations that do not are mostly right wing autocracies aka Banana republics with a small elite rich and a large underclass. The rich reap the benefits of their position and power- and pay little taxes- the lower classes pay most of the taxes to support the wealthy! Something like Cuba in 1939.

Is this what the USA is to become? Perhaps- reform health care and join other civilized industrial nations of the world in giving our citizens a basic human right.

Note the wording: "The legislation would be paid for by a federal income surtax -- up to 5.4 percent on the income of taxpayers making more than $1 million a year --"

It doesn't say that those making less than $ 1 million a year won't be hit with an income surtax; only that the surtax will be as high as 5.4% on taxpayers making more than $1 million.

Here's betting that there will be an increase on taxpayers with incomes far lower than the $1 million threshold; just that it will be a little less than 5.4%

Macon Progress wrote,

"I think this is a great idea and am looking forward to making progress towards building something that works for everybody. Remember back when education was private? Now it's socialized and everybody can get a basic education. It takes time, all you naysaying putzes need to get over your greed and be patient."

Greed? If I work for MY money, why should you get it because your lazy? I bet you learned that in the (basic) public school system. I learned how to make money, not live off others

Last year: federal taxes on total income of ~$1,000,000: ~$350,000
State taxes (Massachusetts): ~$53,000 to $120,000
Income after taxes: ~$520,000 or more
You know, I really wouldn't have too much difficulty living comfortably on a fraction of that. Even an increase of an extra 10% (between the end of the Bush cuts and this surtax) would result in about $420,000 after taxes. Maybe I save a little less, and make fewer charitable donations, but I'm hardly suffering.
(Numbers used: Fed tax rate of 35%; MA State tax rate of 5.3% for wages and 12% for capital gains, probably some combination; $1,000,000 income; other variables not considered: exemptions, deductions, etc., which should increase income after taxes).

This piece fails to mention that the proposed bill includes tax surchages for those making less than $1 Million. Most people will not have sympathy for Millionaires but this tax goes down to $350,000 and will probably get down to $250,000 before it is over.

Amount Tax Surcharge
$300,000 1%
$500,000 1.5%

With increases to 2 & 3 percent respectively in 2013.

Keep Pushing the Lefties? The GOP and conservatives in this country have had control over the economic and ideological direction of this country for decades- I find it amusing that after 6 months of Obama trying to make reforms that FDR and Truman made and wanted to make 60-80 years ago as socialist.
Conservatives would have not wanted the FDA- and have the public not have access to safe food. The GOP also opposed Social Security and medicare (single payer health care).

It is quite tiring to see the number of people making snide comments about people receiving unemployment or welfare benefits. I'm (luckily) employed, but my wife got laid off in February, and despite having a MS (rehab counseling), and years of experience, looking both in her field and somewhat outside it, the best results are when she gets interviews, only to be told that funding has been cut, but if they had the money they would definitely hire her, and in the meantime would she consider volunteering? Her "free time" is spent taking Spanish classes, writing cover letters, researching different firms, and yet with an exorbitant unemployment rate, she is unlikely to get employed anytime soon.

As she is blind, as well, she is ineligible for many jobs that require driving or other tasks that require sight. She is fully capable, with the proper accomodations, of doing most other tasks besides driving, but don't even get started on the adverse reactions that many employers have to the thought of employing someone with a disability.

But go ahead, I dare you to call her lazy.

Some basic concepts lacking in the proposal:
1. Equal protection and treatment under the law.
2. The money taken belongs to someone else and does not belong to you.
3. It is not my money and I have no right to it either.
4. If govt is allowed to take other people's money, it can just as easily take yours too.
5. The govt that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away.
6. Sooner or later you run out of other people's money.

The plan should be - If you don't contribute you die period. No food, no shelter no healthcare. I'm sick of having to donate to the cause of the lazy people. If you can hold a cup - you should be pushing a broom. You want welfare ? Your not allowed to own a couch or a tv or buy Doritos. Keep pushing the buttons lefties. It's coming soon. We're not going to take this crap much longer. -getyourselfworkin

Ok, so are you saying that you are ok with dying should you, god forbid, get hurt going to work? What happens if you can't work anymore? What happens when you inevitably have to leave your job? When you no longer can afford to keep up with steep COBRA payments? What if you suddenly then find out that the procedure you need to live isn't covered? Sell the house? Well with the cost of medicine, the proceeds from the sale of the average median priced home in MA would last what...maybe a year...then what?

The scenario I outline above happens everyday to AMERICANS, and it impacts thousands, upon thousand of Americans a year. Heck it could happen to anyone at anytime....you, me, your gf/wife, my gf, kids, parents, etc....

However, dumb right wingnuts just cant seem to comprehend this....

Also since wingnuts only think with there paycheck - you do realize that you would get back some $$$$ if we go to a national healthcare plan - per BO's plan. How much? Well every paycheck, I get $55 (coverage for a single person)deducted for health insurance. Since healthcare would now be financed by the government, I would presume that money goes back in my pocket...so $55*26(paychecks) = $1430 .

Anyway you slice it, a much much much better tax cut then monkey bush jr gave during his time in office.

""healthcare costs continued to rise, crushing businesses and families and placing an unsustainable burden on governments" This is always paraphrased like no one is responsible. The unfairly high doctor rates and rates for supplies is a major problem and this new system has not even mentioned it. If food industry keep the marjins the players in health bussiness do we will end up paying 25$ for a loaf of bread

Since when is $54K just a little extra money.

"...We have just become FRANCE!
Posted by Gary Swain .."
Gary, check out surveys to fine out which country has the BEST health care? Yep, it's FRANCE.
US? around 36th place.
As for taxing the "most productive members of society," give me a break.
MOST of the super rich did NOT earn it! They INHERITED IT!!! We can call it the Paris Hilton Tax

I love how people are complaining that a millionaire has to pay more taxes. Am I suppose to believe all those that complained are making 7 figure salaries? If you are not a millionaire wouldn't you cheer the tax? Oh, and I just love the idea that a person with a huge income deserve to keep more of their hard earned income. Well, don't I deserve to keep more of my meager wages too? What makes them so special? I would gladly pay my way but the rich has been off the hook for so long, they should pay the surcharge. Please do the math, a millionaire paying 60% income tax gets to keep $400000 afterwards; whereas some one making $75000 paying 30% tax only takes home $52500. That a huge difference in after tax pay. If I have to do with $50 grand a year after tax, someone getting $400 grand should just shut up about having to pay a lot of tax.

"Since when is $54K just a little extra money." - Gene Fay

If I'm making $1,000,000 per year, yeah, $54,000 is not a significant amount of money. If I'm making $50,000, that 5.4% is smaller ($2700), and yet more significant. But when your after tax income is over $500,000, and after that extra $54,000 it's still about $450,000, you're still going to be pretty comfortable.

While I personally don't make over $1,000,000 per year, I do have the circumstances where I know a few people who make over that, and several others who make close to that, and I assure you that the extra $54,000 that they could be taxed would not have a significant impact on their lifestyle. Most people that I know with that kind of income are saving large amounts of it, or donating large amounts of it, but generally aren't spending large amounts of it on the things one may imagine.

The people here that are for this bill make me sick. Have you no sense of pride or dignity? My mother taught me to EARN what I have. I personally would have to swallow alot of pride to ask anyone for something that wasn't rightfully mine. I would expect most decent human beings to feel the same way.

Unfortunatly this board is filled with people that not only have no problem asking for something they didn't earn, they feel entitled to it. In my opinion that's pathetic.

I honestly don't care if you're a 'lefty' or a 'righty', taking what doesn't belong to you is wrong. Not one person here can give me a GOOD reason why someone who works hard and earns 7 figures should have to fork over some of it to people who aren't as successful. To simply say, 'it's not their fault they aren't successful' is an utter load of crap.

What made this country great is the people that were willing to WORK and SACRIFIcE to make their OWN WAY. You will never find a thriving society built off of people who expect others to provide for them.

Not one person here would be okay with giving up more of their paycheck to support someone who didn't work as hard as they did. To say, 'Oh their rich, they can afford it, I could live off of far less than that' is nothing but whining about someone else having more than you do. If you don't like it you should have worked harder in your life.

You all may say it's the rich that are whining, well I'm not rich. 5.4% of a million is more than I make in a year. But if you ask me, the real whiners are the people who haven't EARNED their own healthcare, and are telling other people to buy it for them. THAT IS A JOKE.

If you fortunate enough to be wealthy or, God forbig, you worked hard and earned a decent living, you wouldn't want anyone telling you you have to give two weeks worth of your year to help a group of people who lack the ambition or drive to support themselves.

Since when do people feel entitled to be supported by others?

And I would caution those of you who have so much contempt for the evil wealthy. (Since when does having money make you a bad guy?) The more you go to the well, the faster it runs out.

Corboomr, so are you saying that just because your family leaves you a financial legacy, someone that does not have one deserves yours?

AND, more so, you seem to cite France being "the best" in a 2000(!) ranking by the WHO. Well here is a bit of information for you: "best" is a relative term. If you had done all of your research you would realize that the WHO no longer publishes this study because of its complexity. In fact, in that same study Canada an France despite both being socialized and having nearly identical numbers had a *significant* difference in ranking (1 vs 30) - the primary difference being that France is far smaller than Canada.

With your fact-checking skills you should work for the Globe.

"Its savings of more than $500 billion over 10 years" - that is nothing. That equals to a savings rate of 0.3% of GDP per year (assuming GDP of $14 trillion and $50billion in savings per year). Health care is already eating up about 16% of GDP.
There are no savings or health outcome improvements in this bill. The only that changes is that people on medicare and medicaid will be denied more services, as providers will refuse to accept the lower reimbursement rates, and rich people will be taxed. There is no underlying reform. All this is doing is shifting resources around..the old, the very poor and the rich get screwed. The middle class has no impact..oh except for contrinuously rising costs.

Here is what I don't understand. We spend a trillion dollars to start a war based on bunk intelligence and a promise that we are maybe preventing another 9/11. This war leaves thousands of our fellow citizens dead and tens of thousands battered with a lifetime of injuries. A trillion dollars and counting.

But when we try to implement a healthcare plan that ensures that our most vulnerable can finally get seen by a doctor outside of a life threatening situation well....well then WE HAVE GONE TOO FAR!

We would rather fund billion dollar programs for shiny machines of death which always run over budget and sometimes are never delivered but we feel good about that because NATIONAL SECURITY. No need to elaborate further, simply NATIONAL SECURITY. Thanks Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and the rest for keeping us safe! We'd rather have your new toys so that we may wage poorly considered wars at great cost, ironically, to our NATIONAL SECURITY while our fellow citizens die in gutters of ailments like a bad cold.

Our priorities are a disgrace. We would rather wrap ourselves in the flag and scream about France and MY TAX DOLLARS while bemoaing the plight of the 1% of people who control the vast majority of our wealth. The very same people who hide money offshore to avoid having to pay their taxes. The greatest con going right now is that for some reason people beleive that those who have the least should contribute the most to our nations infrastructure, that those who have the least should fight the wars our politicians start based on lie, that those who have the least must fight and scrap with one another to ultimately become middle class. In the middle, not the worst off, not the best off, but just comfortably mediorce, locked in a cycle of working the majority of our lives in the HOPE of enjoying our twilight years in fear of whether our 401K and Social Secuirty will allow us the priveledge of being able to EAT and afford medication.

Disgusting. We would rather fight to deny each other an essential right in favor of sustaining a backwards system that puts healthcare into the hands of the free market and excludes millions so that we can cling to a false notion of bootstrapping our way to a lifetime medicority. The carrot at the end of the stick is we all die, so clearly it is best to spend our time here in manner that is as difficult and mindboggling stupid as possible.

Someone please tell me what the Amewrican Dream is again.

First.. the top 1% get taxed at 5.4%.
In 2013, the top 5% will get taxed at 7.6% surcharge and
the top 20% will get a new 2% surcharge.

Then by 2020, everyone making over $100,000 will have a 20% pay for the poor penalty.

Get this bozo out of office!!!

Bridman12, you are absolutely 100% correct. By the logic of everyone who thinks the folks with more money should pay more to even out the playing field, how would all of you feel about this: in your most difficult college class, you work very, very hard, and you get an A. But, the professor says it is not fair that you got an A, even though you worked very hard and earned it, because one of your classmates did not do as well, achieving only a D. Perhaps it was because they were sick and missed classes, or they are not as smart, or they partied too much, or, maybe, they are just plain lazy. The reason is inconsequential; applying the logic I see in many of these blog replies, the professor takes part of your A, reducing it to a C+, and raises your classmate's grade to a C+. Now, how do you feel? Like you have been cheated? Like you worked hard to earn that A (or $$$) and it is not fair the professor (or Government) reduce your grade ($$$) to share with someone who did not earn it. Sucks, doesn't it?

Hey Jin, get a clue.

Oh, and in the fine print. Besides Congress being exempt from the provisions of this bill, unions who have collectively bargained health insurance will also be exempt.

Pay back time for all us who have to work for a living.

Take, take, take. Everyone that voted for Obama new this was coming. I don't have millions but I don't have anything against anyone that does.

Like I've said all along, ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Universal Healthcare = cruel hoax. Next all thos making more than $100K get to be taxed for thaose that pay no taxes and get income credits. Redistribution of wealth? I think not otherwise why are there so many ads for law firms that will hide your assets so you can get your elderly parents paid for by the Government. After all, they have a printing press for making funny money. As soon as one of the 50 states goes bankrupt they'll be annexed by China as partail settlement of the mortgages they hold on us and the next 10 generatiions!

How about this as an idea: we all should work for the government and turn over our entire paycheck to the government. It will provide us, in turn, a home (barracks style), no lawn, one car, the same clothes for everyone, food, cell phones (welfare recipients already get theirs for nothing, you are just stupid enough to work to have to pay for yours), healthcare. Even mailing a letter would be free ,paid for by the government (but you only get one stamp a week as they are rationed). This is the Obama vision. Change. Send this idiot back to his roots. Oh, sorry, we can't talk about that, it is a secret.

Sometimes it's pretty depressing to read what people have to say. From those who cite as current "facts" things that they think will happen in the future -- definitely multi billionaires since such prescience makes playing both the stock market and the lottery a no-brainer -- to those who seem not to understand that the entire tax system is a clear and obvious redistribution of wealth, there's so much junk that the few thoughtful comments get buried by mindlessness. I could band together with a bunch of other people to build a private highway somewhere, or a train, or an aircraft carrier. But let's face it, it's not going to happen. We tax to redistribute from the private wallet to the public good. Taxation with representation is very American. Now, not every dollar spent is good. But the comments that perceptively suggest how to actually save money are few and far between. I'm reminded by the latest Zoo New England dustup (remember: we want zoos, but we don't want to pay for them. Why can't the government do that?) of a ballot question parody I heard once. The question proposed that every little girl get a free pony from the government WITHOUT the government raising taxes. Anyone want to sign my petition?

Ethan, proof that the tax and spenders don't get it. " Most people that you know that make that money don't spend that extra 54,000, they save it." Actually they probably don't save it, they probably invest it...that capital investment which in turn helps businesses and the economy grow and expand. It is amazing to me the amount of people that just advocate a little more tax here and little more tax there. With SS taxes, federal, state, medicare, cap gains, somebody making say 1M a year is getting taxed at roughly 60%...I don't care how much money you make that is obscene. In addition if all of these tax measures pass 53% of Americans will not pay taxes...there is not one common sense argument that can justify that unless you consider yourself a socialist...

It is impossible for the government to run anything well. Our education systems is suspect, social security a mess with over $4b (that's with a B) lost each year due to poor management, congress can not manage the current stimulus package, states useing these funds incorrectly, just about every state Medicaid program is in the red, most states and cities are raising taxes and fees because they can not control spending. Do you want me to continue. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if congress gets hold of anything it will turn into one be mess.

Why does believe that the only fix is to throw more money at the problem and it will go away. Money is not the answer it is management and accountability. We as citizens don't have the luxury to simply print money or go to our bosses and insist on more because we can not manage our finances. Why should the government have the ability to do this and without accountability.

The worst part of this mess is you and I have little to no control. The only thing we can do if vote every single incumbent (democrats and rebulicans) out of office in 2010 and beyond. That may be our only hope.

Once again...who IS John Galt?

Perhaps- reform health care and join other civilized industrial nations of the world in giving our citizens a basic human right.
Posted by Peter in CT July 14, 09 05:19 PM
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Sorry Peter but neither you nor anyone else is entitled to the fruits of someone else’s labor, i.e. nothing can be considered a basic human right that requires others to work and pay for it, because that is infringing upon their rights. So it’s kind of like slavery to say that your basic rights require me or others to work to provide them. True basic rights require nothing of others, except that they refrain from interfering and placing restrictions on your own individual life, liberty, and the pursuit of your own happiness.

I think they should tax EVERYONE in Massachusetts an extra 25% to pay for national healthcare because you guys kept Kennedy in office - and then added Barney.

It really is amazing to hear that people are seriously confused as to why people who don’t make over $1 million are against this surtax. How about because what’s wrong is wrong and many people recognize that? Are you people seriously that selfish and narrow-minded as to think that theft of others earned income is OK as long as the gov’t says so, and as long as it doesn’t affect you? Really??? It is sort of like that saying that starts out, “First they came for the Jews…” but in this case its “1st they came for people making $1 million.” Does anyone really think that the gov’t will just stop at $1million if they win this battle? No, it will just make it easier for them to lower the threshold in the future to $500k, $250k, and $100k, or whatever they want, because the precedent will have been set. I don’t care if my neighbor makes $100 million a year, I’m never going to think that it’s right to be able to just vote to take huge amounts of his stuff that he/she has earned, simply because it’s wrong, regardless of how much you think you “need” his earnings to pay for things that may help you. And I’m never going to just accept something that is unfair and unjust just because it doesn’t affect me, but instead it’s just “someone else”. Because someday that someone else could easily be me, you, or someone in my family or a friend. Many people who may never even make $100k a year are resisting this because this because of the dangerous precedent it will set. Is that really so hard to understand?

I love how people indicate that unless you are making $1 Million you should not care about this tax and should be happy that the rich is getting taxed. If you follow that logic then the majority of us who have healthcare should be against the 50 Million who are not getting healthcare, against loan modification program and refiancing program, against everyone and everything that is not in the majority or different from ourselves. I guess you are no longer allowed to empathize with others. If increasing your taxes is wrong, then you should want other people to pay more just because they make more money.

Although it is hard to have too much sympathy for millionaires, my guess is that there are a lot of overextended millionaires who did not think their taxes would go up over 10% once you count in the increase income tax rate, healthcare, and trust me their will be more to come. I'm guessing these millionaires hire landscapers, nannies, housekeepers, etc. So go ahead continue taxing them and see how it impacts jobs as well as taxable revenue.

Don't tell me you are surprised by this turn of events. Now with a filibuster proof legislature, the democrats will show their true colors. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Punishing employers for not giving workers health care will result in them switching to hiring "independent contractors". Already almost all the jobs in my field have become contract jobs, which have NO benefits of any kind. Also, I don't think there are enough millionaires in the US to pay for all this.