Is Boston housing too expensive?

Yes, Boston is expensive, but one also has to take lifestyle choices into consideration.

Yes, my wife and I are both young professionals and we couldn't afford to buy a decent home in this area. And we don't like Boston's lifestyle.

There is plenty of affordable housing in Boston area if you don't mind living outside of the Back Bay & South End....Somerville, Chelsea and East Boston are good alternatives for city living.......city life is for adventure...big, brash house is where I'll go to die...Cleveland perhaps!

Too expensive compared to what..........New York?, Washington DC?, San Francisco?, Seattle?, Chicago?, etc...........

Let's compare apples to apples.

Metro Boston is an amalgam of the best that all these other places offer!

If the only way I, as a late-20-something professional, can afford to buy a modest house is to commute 30+ miles to the city, then something has to give.

I travel all over the country on business. Boston's housing prices are not out of line with other major metropolitan areas - in fact, when I tell people from other parts of the country about what's available in Massachusetts, they marvel with envy. While they have to live on postage-stamp size lots in those other places, Massachusetts suburban housing seems absolutely palatial for the same price.

Maybe the city of Boston and it's neighbors like Cambridge and Brookline are over-priced, but there are lots of great buys to be had in the rest of Massachusetts.

As a late 20's professional you absolutely cannot afford anywhere near Boston. Go live in Eastie or Dorchester and get shot at..
Even the prices there are ridiculous. Go the affordable housing route from the BRA? Good luck...If you make enough money to actually afford the mortgage you can't qualify because you make too much money..
Affordable housing is not $230,000 for a loft in East Boston...
.

When given the option of moving back east to Boston or going to San Diego I took SD. Both are expensive places to live and if I'm going to cough up the $$ I may as well have the best climate in the country.

I still love Boston, but can't take that weather anymore for what I would be forced to pay.

It's too expensive. No two ways about it. Yes, it's one of the best regions of the country to live in, but we pay dearly for that. This state needs more home construction, smarter zoning laws, and a commuter rail that goes way up into new hampshire and way out to western mass (think Japan).

My wife is a local and I grew up in western New York. In our twenties we both had outstanding, high paying jobs and it still took us 7 years to amass a down payment for a house. We could have bought sooner than that, but neither of us feltt like working 18 hours a day and dealing with the stress of a high pressure job to come home to a tiny house in a that some old couple sold to us at a 450K profit and hasn't bothered to update it for 30 years.

Don't get me wrong: we love it here and can't imagine living anywhere else, but we were pushed to the very edge as we went through the house hunting process and almost packed up and left - and we're blessed with high paying jobs.

Massachusetts has serious work to do in terms of creating affordable housing for first time home buyers; otherwise, we'll be left with a bunch of venture capitalists and empty nesters who sold their crappy 1200 sq ft brady bunch house in some second rate suburb for a $600K profit and are now living with other old empty nesters in all those luxury condos growing like weeds in downtown Boston. Is that the city we all want to live in?

Yes, you could find very affordable housing in cities such as Cleveland, Detroit or Atlanta but the trade-off is much lower quality of life, not to mention that these are high crime cities.

I recentley moved back to Boston this past summer for work..
I moved from here ten years ago to go to Houston
Understanding the heat issue where thay have perfected AC. It just feels like we are living like bees in a hive here
There is no room to spread out
New England by far has some of the most beautiful places in the country
But you can live in Houston as I did and will be back soon enough for half the price
Do the math
I have a 4 bedroom 2.5 bath 2 car 2000 sq ft brick one story 8 year old house and paid 120.000 live like a king. I will be heading back and visting here often (I can afford to travel as I want...remember half the cost of Boston) It just seems that life is alot easier with no snow and less congestion.

Boston is not to expensive, 2.5 hours to skiing,1.5 hours to Cape Cod National Seashore, great colleges,great hospitals, 4 hours to Broadway shows, you can buy a single family home now for under $ 350,000, Cleveland, Milwaukee, St. Louis are you kidding me???

If you're a young professional, you should be living and renting in the city. The suburbs are for boring, old people with lots of money. If you want to be boring, go live somewhere else.

I get a real kick out of seeing 70+ year old houses with sagging rooflines, uneven floors and collapsing porches priced at $450k. But let's badge it as 'Antique' and somehow it justifies the asking price. Anywhere else, it's just old and falling down. If you want to live in an average middle class (whatever that means) neighborhood, you'll have to pony up handsomely for it. I'm early 30's, have my 20%, and have excellent credit...and I will remain on the sidelines until this ridiculous market cools. HOW can people possibly think a 10% correction in price will offset year over year double digit price appreciation. Idiotic!!! If it wasn't for my family living here...it would be BYE BYE Taxachusetts.

For the idiot that said living in Dorchester is dangerous or worse getting shot, this is another example of morons not knowing what they are talking about. The problem with Dorchester is the amount of rental units on every street. THere are too many people in one area, so you are bound to have problems...Out of staters think they are too good to live in these areas, but it is just as better as the high priced areas. Funny how no one seems concerned with the amount of Pedophiles and junky kids that live in the suburbs. I rather have neighbors with socieconomic issues, rather than neighbors with mental issues.....

6 figures isn't enough to buy a decent place in the city? Are these people trying to buy Manny Ramirez' loft in the Ritz or something? 6 figures for a single professional should be enough for a decent condo with plenty leftover, even in Boston.......

I moved to south Florida two years ago from Boston and I am moving back. Yes, the weather is nice, but there is no culture, no sophistication, no good urban downtown to hang out in, no place to walk and you live in your car. (it is also way too conservative republican for me, however, others may think that is a plus). Yes, Boston is expensive but there are other places to live near Boston beside just Back Bay or the south end. Any interesting, big city in the US is expensive. You can definitely live cheaper in a lot of other cities in the country, but I dont think it is worth giving up the things that Boston has to offer. I tried, it didnt work for me.

Are you guys rah rahing Boston taking a look at the For Sale section right this moment? Unbelievably junky dives selling for 500-600-700K and all this for at least 45 min from cambridge/boston downtown.

I moved out of Boston in 2002 and this is no "correction ' at all. Wages have hardly grown but house prices are sickening. Move out west- quality of life far superior to the DC-Boston belt- Oregon-Portland or Seattle or some places in CA. In Portland no sales tax+ no income tax in WA + wages ABSOLUTELY comparable to Boston + fantastic nature + no parking problems + low insurance+ decent schools+ people who smile and are polite...

I have to move back in 2 mons- wife's family arghhhh

I lived in Boston for the first 29 years of my life and yeah it's expensive. I've been in Los Angeles for the last year and half and I make twice as much and houses are probably twice as expensive. I've seen fixer uppers in LA going for $700K and you are lucky to get a loft or condo for less then $350K. But I'm not going to move to Cleaveland. You get what you pay for and Boston like LA has a lot of culture, nightlife and recreation that creates a better quality of life. My family is all in Tampa now and I could move there and get a job and buy a house and be bored out of my mind if I wanted to but I'd rather live someplace interesting be it Boston, LA, NY, Chicago, SF or wherever

As a young professional in my late 20's, I have a well paying position in Boston (about 5 years) In no debt + perfect credit score . With a sizable down payment and living at home with no bills stockpiling, I still can't afford anywhere near Boston that is attractive to me (Like say more than 400sf). I been looking for 2 years. Two income households is needed today. 30+ miles outside the city is a horrible commute (depending which line) on probably the worst transit system in the country, thats only going to get more expensive. I switched to rent and moved to the city.

I think city living is rent living - thats the lifestyle.

Um, my husband and I had no problem finding a single family home near Boston in our 20's (we were 26 and 27 when we closed on it a year ago.) We just bought what we needed. Two youngins and two cats don't need a palatial home on an acre of land. We bought a 1000 sq ft home in Lynn and pay about what we paid in rent when we were in Boston, and we are by no means loaded. Our house was $240k and needed no work beyond some cosmetics.

Sure, Wellesley and Newton are expensive, but there were many homes under $250k when we were looking 2 years ago and now there are many under $200k that are in move in condition. We just looked in places other people feel are beneath them - Lynn, Lowell, Salem, etc. All within 45 min of Boston, Waltham and Woburn - where most of our job options will be now and in the future. We can walk to the train from our house. You can't do that in Cleveland.

#18 has some points. Portland, Oregon has amazing night life, fantastic beer, coffee shops to die for, cheap and reliable public transit, and a really mild climate. And the housing is definitely cheaper than in Beantown.

If I wasn't stuck in New England for a whole lot of reasons beyond my control at this point, I'd be gone!

great comments all around. Nice to see I'm not alone in coming back to Boston. For my wife and I, all of our life long friends are here and it will always be home. For me it's not house prices that is the problem. It's finding job that will pay me nearly as much as I can make in DC. Seems like so many companies are giving up on Boston.

Boston is expensive, but jobs pay MUCH more than they do in Cleveland. You can basically trip over a job in Boston that pays 100k. The local economy is great and there are tons of very high paying jobs in the area. The culture can't be beat (except maybe by NYC and Cali). The cost of living isn't that high, considering the wages are pretty high.

I find the same people that complain about the high cost of living are also the ones that complain about the cold weather. Get tough or get out!

"I can't get somebody to move from Cleveland to here..." That's because half of them have never left the city...Cleveland is a DIVE...you couldn't pay me enough to live there. I spent 9 years in Boston for training, and it was the best place I ever lived. I had no choice but to move to Pittsburgh for 3 years, and I thought it would be nice to be in a more affordable city. THIS IS THE WORST PLACE I HAVE EVER LIVED!! I can't wait to come back...no matter what the cost...

I think Boston is overpriced, personally. For the money I paid for my home (7 figures), I would rather spend it on a home in a different city. Boston has a lot to offer some people, but not me. To me, it's a boring city. I'll be here for the next few years and will enjoy my time overall, but I definitely don't think I'm getting my money's worth. City services are bad---poorly run and managed. Shopping is terrible. The way people dress is boring. Nightlife is dull. People are stiff. Boston thinks its cosmopolitan. It's not. You'd think there would be great club-hopping around Berklee (where I'm based), but there's isn't, and when the students graduate, most of them pick up and leave. That speaks volumes. A swinging city, this ain't. What am I paying for?

Boston is WAY expensive - we moved here from NYC and naively thought we would be able to settle down in a nice suburb and live in comfort - wrong!! Everyone is all hyped about the prices of homes decreasing - but it hasn't decreased enough for my family to live in a decent sized 3 bdrm with a good school system (we make 110/yr - too much for low income and not enough for anything other than renting a crappy home in a nondescript town. Not to mention - public transportation is awful and the weather stinks

Lets face the facts folks the reason the prices are so high here in Boston is because of one word, 'Greed.' I lived in the city close to 10 years, renting some average places. Then out of nowhere, becuase we live in a 'college' town. You get some ffffin ahole college kid who decides to play dance music upstairs from where you live. Yea bang on his door, yea ring his door bell you try to reason with him and yea might as well talk to a wall becuase these kids dont giva a f_ck. So you move out of the city and now you got to deal with a bunch of a__oles on the commuter rail, as well as poor service and high price train tickets. And of course now that you live in the burbs you got to deal with driving around to get your food and drinks becuase the town you live in is dry. And if your lucky your town wont have street trash collection so you have to drive to the dump to discard your waste. So then you wonder where all your money is going as you pull into the gas station to fill up your car. Oh yea and then of course to relax you can drive up to the mountains, 2 hours one way, 4 hours round trip, and pay close to $50 to go skiing and thats of course if you own your own skiis. And in the summer you can drive 1.5 hours up to the north shore and go swimming in some polluted water. If not drive to Maine, but that will cost you another hours drive. Oh yea I forget you can go to the cape, same deal as driving to Maine, just more traffic on the way home. Im sure its the same crap in those other high priced cities. What Boston needs is some serious work in the planning sphere. And in that I mean better planning as far as building affordable decent housing near commercial and transportation areas as well as providing clean and safe recreational areas for people to go to so they can get rid of their stress. And of course people have to stop being so "GREEDY."

Boston/MA expensive and overpriced? Never heard of that idea before

If the middle class leaves, so does the identity of the city. My dad came over from italy with nothing, worked landscaping and settled in Newton's blue coller north side. I'm a college grad with a great job earning decent coin and i can't buy his front door. Yes, most of the change in Boston is great (charlestown is a high end nieghborhood for godsake!) but i agree that we ought to be careful about where we're headed.

Plain and Simple, right now Boston is way to expensive and just overpriced. My wife and I are just lucky we bought in 2000 before the big hike. I live 15 miles from downtown Boston on the north shore and house prices are just out of control . They must come down, I just can't see how first time home buyers can do it. The starting price for an old 1400 square foot fixer upper is around 320k. To get new and 2000 square feet your looking at 500k. This is the reason why young folks today are taking to big of mortgages, it must come down back to the 2002 price range. Don't get me wrong , the Boston area is great with a lot to offer but give me a break. I have traveled a lot around the country and in most areas you can get a nice fairly new home for around 25Ok. Our salaries are not that much greater than other parts of the country to justify the high cost of living in Boston.

I have to agree that the housing prices are out of control. I moved out of Boston after living there for 11 years. I became bitter toward the city because I felt that I could not get ahead. I couldn't afford to live in the city that I was educated in (bachelors, masters and doctorate). Not to mention that my job helps the people who live there. I could barely afford rent on top of my school loans.

I moved to San Diego, and like someone mentioned before, it's no bargain there either, but I've saved quite a bit on heat the past few winters and there's no price you can put on that sunshine.

See, this is the problem. Ask a question about real estate prices, and it's an open invitation for free-form bloviation.

"I like Boston more than Cleveland, therefore real estate is not overpriced."

Um, no.

Obviously a large city with more ample job opportunities and tighter housing is going to be more expensive than a smaller city with a dying economy and plenty of empty space.

Duh.

But that was true ten years ago too, before Boston housing started its historic bubble. It explains nothing, and it doesn't matter.

If Boston were expensive just because it's desirable, then rents would have gone up, too. But since 2000, houses went up while rents went down. Jobs were lost. And more people left the state.

The simple fact is, Boston is extraordinarily overpriced by two important historical standards: the ratio of income to prices, and the ratio of rent to prices. Prices rose for one reason only: A history-making global credit bubble, which has now popped.

Gee, if Boston prices were so justified and secure, why is Suffolk County on Wells Fargo's list of distressed markets?

Wow. Someone's actually boasting that you can buy a home -- not the best, not the average, but a home -- for $350,000 here? That's just more than 50 percent above the typical American home price.

Even if housing weren't a problem, other costs of living are significantly higher in Boston -- at a far higher percentage than the wage level.

If that 30-percent-max-income-on-housing goes up to, say, 45 percent, where can you cut? You're paying more for groceries, taxes, probably a longer commute. After paying rent or mortgage, you need more money, not less, to survive.

Yes, Boston Area living is expensive, but it is all a matter of choice as many have said above. My honey and I haved live all over the world and this is the only place we care to live. Granted we live in one of the nicest towns by choice and have sactificed to be here. But there are choices for anyone who wants to live here. Dorchester and other gentrifying areas, as mentoned above, have some of the best and affordable older homes in the area. They need citizens to own them and love them as so many have in the past. Also, the magic of this town that sets it above others is the forever young student population. At about 250,000 strong they create a vitality little seen elsewhere. They create an energy that has always raised the expectation of the rest of us to aspire to the best in culture, intellectual activities, sports teams, medicial facilities, parks, cheap eats, historic and modern attractions, walkability, mobility and just plain quirky uniquiness! Yeah, It's expensive but it's worth it. I grew up in Florida. Cheap yes but what a boaring [sic] place it is today, even the weather is boring and the livability is about as flat as the okeefenokee compared to here. I love to travel but I also love to return home to our Boston!

If I turned back the calendar 15-20 years ago, this blog would read the same (although maybe less internet users then!). Does everyone really think that they are entitled to live in the most exclusive parts of Boston, because they make 100K a year??? Come on, Boston for the most part is an exclusive city. There are a ton of affordable places to live in Boston. JP, Brighton, Southie, East Boston etc...Back Bay, Beacon Hill, Waterfront, South-End should and are exclusive areas. Always were and always will. Like every 20 something generation before you, enjoy the city while renting with a couple friends and save money. Every major city worth while in the country is expensive. i don't know many first time buyers that buy in the most exclusive areas of a city. That's just not reality.

Boston sucks when it comes to housing, nobody cares aboy young college kids and twenty something young professionals, are we going to build more houses?
....Just because some folks here are making the 6 figures a year and drinking martinis and Chilean wine every night, doen'st really make Boston affordable for other who are struggling to make ends meet,...
People who are telling me Boston is cheap are just a pennies in the big Ocean of peopel who are unhappy about the housing situation in Boston,...
And yes it is worth moving to Alaska, I'm thinking about it...

I grew up in Boston, and left for San Francisco 7 years ago. I got married and wanting to move back to Boston. I love the culture in Boston, the best schools, hospitals, foods, the seasons, arts & science, everything I love. Omse people can appreciate it and some people can't. SF does not have much here and people are pretty pretentious and worst of all, people in CA can't drive.
If only I can convince my husband (or get a divorce) and find a new job so that I can move back to Boston. I actually miss snow. I lived on Beacon Hill for 4 years after college and I loved it. Then I bought a condo in Brookline's coolidge corner and I loved it even more!! there's nothing like the brownstones in Boston.

#22 & @18 - Portland is one of the most miserable cities I have ever been to... it rains a lot, there are beggers all over the place and the economy is in ruins.... I'll take the best city in America anyday...... St. Louis..... KIDDING,,, I mean BOSTON!!

It makes little sense to flood the market with new homes if fundamentals such as bad weather and high taxes to pay for unending liberalism are fixtures. The demand just isn't there to move to this region. Look at the demographic shifts; look at population trends! This net outflow has less to do with home prices and more to do with how Massachusetts runs itself and is perceived. It's the state that the other 49 laugh at! All this cackling about 'more homes' being the answer is plain stupid. For every one good reason to move to Massachusetts there are three or four good reasons not to.

Boston and the Boston area are definitely too expensive in me and my wife's opinion. We are both college graduates, both professionals in our field, and in our late 20's, and while my wife stays home to watch the kids now, I make a very good salary and she could as well. We are very close to moving out of Massachusetts because we cannot afford a nice house that is big enough for a growing family. Another thing that is very annoying is the fact that we make too much money to qualify for any special programs, but too little to afford a decent house in a safe neighborhood for our children. This seems to be the common trend in the US now, you have to be extremely poor to qualify for anything, the middle class is dissolving, eventually we will be a rich and poor class nation...

I would LOVE to move back to N.E., esp. the Boston area. But prices are soooo ridiculous there, I can't even afford the price of apts. there.
I am living in a 3 br. 2 full baths all utils. pd., there is an indoor and outdoor pool on the site. I am paying $889 mo. Come on... I haven't been able to find a 1 br. apt. in a decent area for this price. Fahgettahbout a house!
When the prices ever get reasonable then I might be able to move back (if I'm not elderly by then.)
Until then I'll have to watch my Boston sports on NESN.

"You can basically trip over a job in Boston that pays 100k. The local economy is great ..."

PLEASE tell me where I can " trip" over a job paying $100,000 !! MA job market still has not replaced half of the jobs lost in the recession of 2000-02 !

Given the fact that more people are leaving the state than entering it, I think the public opinion is pretty clear.

As the younger generation has fewer children, the older population moves out of single family homes and into assisted living, and the Brazilians head back home to a healthy economy, its pretty clear what direciton housing prices are heading around here.

I'm a college-educated working-class gentleman who can't afford to buy the Roslindale house that my immigrant grandfather built with his own hands. And even if I could afford the home, I couldn't afford Boston's property taxes. Family ties are the only thing keeping me in this God-forsaken liberal state. Massachusetts' ruling liberal-limousine elite, who claim to love the poor and working class, have bid housing prices so sky-high, that the working class they claim to love can't afford to live near them anymore. Liberals in this state love renewable energy and the working class, until they have to live next to a wind farm or a carpenter; then the liberal refrain becomes "Not in my backyard/neighborhood." . . . . In a nutshell, yes, Boston housing is too expensive, especially for those who don't live off a trust fund . . . . .

Somerville and Chelsea and East Boston, which Nalced mentioned, are also pricing out the middle class. maybe 10 years ago ... not now. Then you have to do with the horrid school systems. If you go further out, you have to deal with the lack of public transportation/

No-one is talking 100k a year, Bil (post #36). What about those making $40,000 or less. Should it be a give that being in a lower economic class means your children have to suffer, educationally. The areas you mentioned are NOT "affordable" - not any longer.

The problem is tieing property taxes to the public school systems.

Lincoln (post #35) - Dorchester is NO LONGER "affordable. But is T accessibility is a plus.

Mike (post #35) has it right - he's looking at the big picture, the entire household budget, not just the mortgage.

If I were not tied here by a child visitation agreement, I would head elsewhere in a split second. There are plenty of lesser-known, cultural communities with great school systems.

I'm an academic. years ago, say, within the last decade, there was an article in the Globe about how local campuses are losing their campus feel - one reason being that professors can no longer hang out with their students late into the night, mentoring them, because the professors themselves have a long commute home (to towns where their salaries allow them to pay the rent).

A lot is being lost here. I will be among them in five years.

Frankly, you couldn't pay me enough to live in Boston, or any other big city. I'm pleased that my company moved out of Boston into northern Mass, because now I'm not a hostage to the MBTAs latest round of fare increases (the last price hike I endured was somewhere around a 20% increase, so they could replace perfectly good turnstiles with Star-Trek turnstiles that break four times as often), and I no longer have to worry about being solicited by a prostitute on my way to and from work (or step over their leavings. Ugh)

The Missus and I are renting now, because renting is loads cheaper than buying. Once we have enough for a down payment on a house, we'll be looking in New Hampshire.

Unlike some of the Boston cheerleaders around here, I don't measure my quality of life by how close I am to an exotic coffee shop. I'd rather have land that my kids can run around and play in than a cheek-by-jowl salt box that's within walking distance to Thai food. I guess that makes me "boring." So what's wrong with being boring?

#21 has got a interesting view. Who wants to live in 1000 square foot shoe box in crime riddled Lynn with a school system that is bankrupt. While I do not like Cleveland and have lived there and the Transit system ( Yes Tooleys, buses and Commuter Rail) run a lot better then the MBTA does ( not that the MBTA service is bad). 200K buyes a lot of house there compared to a shoe box in Lynn. I think when I am done making my loot here I will abscond back to Cleveland. I just hope the Cuyhoga River doesn't catch on fire again.

The Boston area is very expensive to live in. I am 29 and bought my condo in Salem at 26 after working two jobs for the past ten years since being in college. I have a Bachelor's, Master's, and am about to pursue a second Master's to stay ahead. I have to work two jobs to afford my 750ft square condo I bought back in 9/05 for 184000. The value has since dropped to approx 160000. I have had roommates for the past three years to offest the cost.

I do not feel that young people should have to work two jobs to make ends meet. That is the case up here in Boston as prices are increasing and salaries are not keeping up.

This entire arguement of too expensive or not is a moot point. The real estate market is a free and fluid market ; people can choose to live here or somewhere else. Prices are only as high as there are people willing to pay them and the quantity of housing available. Come on folks this is macro-economics 101. More people want to live in Boston than not, and they bid up the price of housing to be here.

To #47, what's wrong with boring? Nothing, if it appeals to you. If what you want can be had inexpensively, good on you. Go for it! I need the Thai joint, for whatever reason, that's how it is, so I have to find a way to overcome the price.

I'd echo some of the comments that Boston is different than other locales where you'd expect to save significantly on the price of your home. I lived for nearly 3 years in Houston as a renter, and yes, the rent was unbelievably cheap. Every time I came home and told friends that I was paying less than $1,000 per month for a 1,000+ sq ft brand new apartment they were shocked. Houston friends were buying new homes for less than $200,000 within Houston city limits. But my sobering reality was that Houston was no Boston in the sense that for me it had no spark, no pulse. Houston was an over-sized empty shell of a City in my eyes, and the only saving grace was that Austin was within a reasonable distance, which, for Texas, meant it was a 3+ hour drive (with traffic).

I am not going to come out with some blanket statement about how living in Boston, despite the high costs, is supremely better than living in a generic city where you can afford to buy a nice new home. It's a matter of individual preference. I wanted to be in Boston to experience all that the City has to offer, things that as a child growing up in Boston I probably somewhat took for granted. This includes the dedicated sports fans (let's leave the ticket price controversey for another time...though yes, as crazy as it might sound, for me the Sox ticket prices are worth it compared to the cheap tickets that were given away to see the Astros), the museums, educational opportunities, etc. With all of that in mind I was able to find an apt for $250k in Jamaica Plain, where I pay $1,500 per month as a mortgage (not much more than what I paid in Houston) and live on the T and within close driving distance to downtown.

The bottom line is that living in Boston is not for everyone. If you want to live in FL and have the nice weather and the beaches then that's your choice. I, nor anyone on this board, have no right to tell you otherwise. But for me, that lifestyle doesn't work.

Boston is expensive - but the real problem is that salaries have not kept pace with the cost of living here.

Employers can expect to keep having problems convincing young professionals to stay here, if they don't start being a little more realiztic with their salaries. They can't expect to pay the same salary as Texas, Florida or Georgia when the cost of living in Boston is considerably higher

Boston housing prices are on par with New York, DC, Seattle, etc. - but if you compare salaries, Boston is well below the average.

Of course there is lifestyle to consider - I personally LOVE Boston - but I am tempted to move because it would be so much easier to get ahead in another state. I am certainly not alone - about half of my friends have left in dribs and drabs over the last 5 years to move to New York, Seattle, D.C., and even Georgia.

Actually, the part of Lynn #21 moved to is not bad at all - and you are 2-3 stops from Boston on the commuter rail. Lynn has a horrible reputation, but it is really not justified anymore. That area that #21 moved to is perfect for a young couple who wants to live in a nice loft and still feel close to the city.

Its funny, people argue that Dorchester is not bad and a great place to buy- while there are shootings in the news almost daily...

"Is Boston housing too expensive?"

What kind of question is that? You think?
$300K buy a rehab the size of two car garage.

Do I think Boston real estate is expensive? No. Do young professionals have the salaries to support these prices? Absolutely not!
I think the issue is more of the salaries of young professionals have been flat since 2001. The starting salary for my position has been the same for the last 6 years. With baby boomers staying on the job longer, these young professionals are being held back from moving up and making more. Im waiting for two people at work at age 65 and 72 to kick the bucket so I can make a few extra bucks.

#50 is right - it's all about supply and demand; however, no one is bidding up prices anymore and the statement that "more people want to live here than not" is not supported by recent demographics indicating a decline in population. Based on avg # days on-the-market and offers accepted as a % of asking, Boston RE has been, and generally remains, overpriced. As a homeowner, I'm just glad that there are still people willing to buy into an over-inflated market. Probably the same people I sold my tech stocks to a few years ago.

#58, I think #50 is right also. I also think he is correct regarding his statement about more people moving here than not. I believe the most recent demographics reflect that, although you'd never see that on the front page of the consisnent doom and gloomers - The Globe.

Yes, maybe things are overpriced, but it is an open market. Prices are probably overpriced everywhere, not just here. The main reason prices are higher here in general though is that salaries are higher here, and that's reflective of the job mix in this area. Many investment, medical, research types. Same with NYC, SF, etc.

One side note, I've spent some time recently in Southeast Texas and have looked at several homes for sale out of curiosity. As you would expect, they are much cheaper than Boston. Many new construction homes for $150K which would get you about 1,500 or so square feet. Interestingly though is that there are no basements and the yards are incredibly small (your neighbors house is about 15 ft away) even though the area as a whole has a tremendous amount of unused land. Similar to Vegas, Phoenix and the like. I think in general, the lots in the suburbs around here are much more spacious than they are in many of the less expensive cities in the US.

I love Boston. It's been my home since I moved from Cambodia 24 years ago as a child. I love that it's not too far from Cape Cod, NYC, VT, ME, and all the other New England states. I've never owned a home but am planning to. However, because home prices are high and so is taxes, I am faced with the overwhelming option to move down to GA instead where for $300K, you can get 3 acres of land. I never wanted to get out of Boston, but I don't have that choice now. If I were making 6 figures, then I may consider it. I live in East Boston and have looked for homes in East Boston. I've seen some condominiums for $250K and some just under that. But, that's not what I want. I want a home with land to grow a family.

Expensive? That's an understatement....

Approx median income in MA is around $55k right now (per person), and approx $330k or so median home price. Thats about a 5.8x-6x ratio!

Historically, in the 50s/60s, ratios were around 2.5x. In the 70's this bumped up to 3x but still within a certain tolerance. We haven't seen 3x since 1997 in MA!

I'm an early 30's professional and my wife also works - we make a decent income at about $110k but we cannot afford to consider having children and even rent (nevermind a mortgage) because there is NO room for any savings (rainy day, long term, children's funds, whatever). If she works, daycare is about a fair swap w/ her salary, so, no brainer there... But on just my single income ($80k), it's impossible.

Sacrifices? Sure. Traditionally, reasonable budgeting includes living expenses, food, car or T pass, gas, some retirement savings, some rainy day savings, and other misc expenses (like, umm, clothes).

Younger people can only afford to even try to stick around here by spending a lot more on housing, but the cash has got to come from the other budget items , so you're screwing yourself in other ways (most likely long-term savings) and then you have ZERO tolerance for any contingencies or emergency expenses - one paycheck problem and people are drowning and end up financially ruined.

Homeowners who bought before the giant bubble prior to 1997 are going to do OK with their ROI. But everyone who bought after that who isn't looking for a long-term asset is crying and screaming and will end up taking their hits and dropping their asking prices. The market looks like at least another 18-24 months of declining housing prices given the current state of the Mass. Exodus and the tightening up of credit standards.

A lot of people like trendy city-living. However, the bread-and-butter of any community, anywhere is going to be young families who just want a decent place to live, have, and raise their children in a good environment. They don't care about being close to the newest Thai or Uber-Neo-Post-Modernist Starbucks-Retread.

Boston is cool. Is it the best City to live in, NO! I lived in Hong Kong, Tokyo, Taiwan, SF, LA, MN, WI, Seattle, NY, Paris, and now Boston. For some, they need to move out of this city or even this country to see what it means. It's all about demand and supply. Boston certainly has JOBS, High tech jobs. It is the only reason me and my family is here. I've seen worst housing situation in terms of price. But in terms of conditions, I have to say NY and Boston are the worst by far. Run-down houses still sold for an arm and a leg in Boston... it wouldn't happen in Tokyo or HK. People here have a weird sense of value.
Again, demand and supply and the sense of value.

#59, as someone who lives in the Boston suburbs and doesn't intend to move, I won't disagree that there are nice places to live in and around Boston but I would also point out that in most Boston subarbs lot and dwelling size is small when compared to the national average and while salaries are higher, the percentage of income spent on housing is higher than the national average. While supply and demand dictate local pricing, RE is not truly an "open market" because where one lives is as much a function of necessity (work, family, etc...) as it is choice. A true open market would suggest that, certerus peribus, an arbitrage opportunity exists until a national (or international) price per sq foot was established.

I moved out of the state to PA for a job within 25 miles of Philly, with the thought I couldn't afford housing close enough to my job in downtown Boston. I just sold a house outside Allentown that was just under 3000 square feet with lots of upgrades for 425k. I saw an ad today for a house within 30 miles of Philly that is over 3500 square feet, 4 bed 3 1/2 bath with 2 car garage and inground swimming pool listed at 469k - it would easily be twice as much within the same distance of Boston. I guess my point is that while I loved Boston and I grew up in that area, my goal of raising a family with a house that is reasonably priced outweighs my loyalty to the area.

As A licensed Broker and Realtor, I can emphasise with those of you who think that this area is too expensive. However it is actually more affordable now than when I purchased my first home in the mid 80's compared to the average salary then. Anyway i see good bargains every day that people seem to not notice. If any of you need help, Find me!

#63, ok, maybe "open market" wasn't the correct term, but prices are set by demand and supply, and a main factor underlying demand is the ability to pay, which is one of the main reasons that prices are high here.

I don't know what the average national lot size is, but it is odd that when you go to some of the newer cities in this country (LV, Phoenix, San Antonio), the lot sizes there, in suburbs of equivalent distance to those in Boston, do seem quite a bit smaller than the lots here -on average. That is anecdotal of course, but it does seem obvious when you look at them.

#66, I appreciate your observations and won't go into the "ability to pay" because that leads us into an entirely different thread on financial engineering, credit standards, subprime lending and the 100%+ increase in the number of foreclosures in the Bay State.

As the broker in #65 indicated there are bargains to be had but its all relative - and I've never met a broker who didn't have something to sell.

We should quit complaining. What we all should do is look at the worst neighborhoods and buy there in the hope that someday it will become viable. If it doesn't, think of all the cool stories about crime you can tell your friends. The funny thing is, even the people who own in Boston can't afford their places.

Some of the problem is that no one ever moves out in the towns around Boston. They live in the same houses their parents did and do the same jobs. In Boston there is zero diversity beyond finance and biotech. How many firefighters and union workers does one town need?

Boston is a beautiful and for the most part, enlightened city. You pay the price. Live in places like Houston or Dallas or Miami. I encourage anyone to try it. I have. They are shallow places that do not offer intellectual stimulation or the community of simply walking in the streets. I'm not trying to be a snob, just speaking from experience.

#24 Either lived in or been to many times your three 'culture capitals'. Left Boston for Chicago 12 years ago when I was 27...guess I never went back. Having grown up in and around Boston, I was stunned by Chicago when I moved there for a job;what a city. I can't bring myself to take shots at my old home town, but to the people of MA who have never really been anywhere else...if you're close, give it a whirl. You may love it somewhere else.

#69 I fully agree. People should pay a premium to live here. If they want to be surrounded by nerdy, pale folks, then they need to pay A LOT of money. If they choose to live in a place like Miami or Tampa and surround themselves with hot babes and clean beaches, then they shouldn't have to pay.

I also am a young educated professional that has scoffed at the prices of housing. I was extremely fortunate in the fact that I sold my condo for a significant profit. Timing had everything to do with it. Even possessing a sizable down payment, I elected not to buy. The mortgage, property taxes, insurance, and gas for my commute would force me to live paycheck to paycheck. This is because I am single. Shortly after, I then became very interested in North Carolina. I ventured to Charlotte six times over the course of the last two years. The last time I was there I purchased a beautiful home in a town ten minutes from Charlotte for 175K. The home is leased, at a monthly profit, if you can believe that. I am saving money now in Massachusetts (grandmother's apartment), but I will be spending it shortly in Charlotte.

However it is actually more affordable now than when I purchased my first home in the mid 80's compared to the average salary then

No.

"10 best places to live"

Boston......

Back in the late 80's a young graduate and employed by a big company was amazed how expensive was housing at the time. Twenty plus year later i hear the same thing.

To make the long story short. Just set your priorities right and if your priorities is to buy a house start saving and living like a homeless person so you can buy the house you may want.
I am glad i was able to buy a house in Newton at the time ,and i say that to let the people know that anything is possible, as long as you are willing to make the trade offs with other things. Now people are saying again how expensive are the houses in Newton. They said that 10 years ago and 20 years ago...I hope i made my point.

Boston housing too expensive? Try San Francisco, from which I just returned. A tiny apartment (300 square feet) in the basement of the house where I stayed just rented, as of March 1, to a "young professional" for $1800 a month, not including utilities. Down the hill from that place is a cute four-room cottage I would love to live in, but I don't have the $1,000,000+ it sold recently for. I came back to Boston grateful for the 1200-square-foot condo I live in here and glad I'm not moving to California--yet. The climate certainly beats Boston's, though.

Boston is becoming a rich/poor community, from 2000 to 2005 the percent of people below poverty in boston increased frim 19% to 23%. The snooty elitest dont care. I'm a fourteen year-old black male from Milton and can fully see what goes on around Masschusetts. The liberals want to take over everything. The yuppies move into previously working-class white/minority neighborhoods like Dorchester. Some of us are fortunate enough to move to Randolph, Milton, Stoughton, Malden or Medford, but some of us have to move to gapingholes like Worcester, Springfield, Lawrence, Lowell, Lynn, Everett, Brockton or Holyoke. Holyoke is EXTREMELY poor. 1 in 5 school shildren are homeless there. Homeless people form ALL OVER THE NATION come to Holyoke, look it up. Mass tries to concentrate its poor, feed its wealthy and eliminate the Middl/Working class.

All, your all missing the big picture. Boston is crashing, don't you see it. The simple answere is yes, Boston is way too expensive. Go out to snobville (by the way I make well over 6 figures and not a snob and very practical and a saver). Back to my point, go out to wellesley, newton and those areas and your looking at well over 750K for something nice. Give me a break. The Boston area is heading back to the 2002 price range where it should be. There are a lot of folks who are being forced out of this state simply because they don't have a choice and cant afford an affordable home without having to take out a ridiculous mortgage. In my opinion this is a mortgage greater than 350k, i don't care what kind of money you make.

Boston IS expensive, but you pay for some of the amenities (like cultural institutions such as the MFA, The Gardner Museum, numerous world class universities, etc.). Having lived and worked all over the US as an engineer, I think Boston is way overpriced compared to other cities such as San Francisco and DC that actually have as good or better amenities. There is no comparison with regard to public transit systems. SF and DC beat the "beloved / hated" 'T' hands-down. Whoever came up with the boosterism slogan "Hub of the Universe" is an IDIOT ! Get over yourselves and see some of how the rest of the world lives. Maybe The Grateful Dead said it best: "Chicago, New York, and Detroit it's all the same street..............." At least we all have freedom of choice !

Lee (#78) - Well written post for a fourteen year old male. You are right, there is a growing rich/poor divide which historically is very bad for society. These days the upper class is doing very little to take their good fortunes and invest in those who need a helping hand. Historically, it was the role of the church to do this. Now, most people dont go to church, and expect their government to perform this function. But since the poor dont vote and since they dont make political contributions, the government will never really be concerned, in a genuine way. The government cannot give the poor the personal, one-on-one help that the poor need to improve themselves; instead it just sends out food coupons and sets up a debt trap that keep the poor poor.

I do like Massachusetts. I'll be honest about Boston - its a cramped dirty city. Some nice restuarants and some good music, but honestly it doesnt hold a candle to NYC or San Francisco. Boston is a cute city with some good things going for it, but seriously folks this is Boston! Its not Paris, Dubai, London, NYC, Vancouver, Sao Paulo.. its just little ol Boston. And the weather sucks. Why cant you just like it for what it is? It has character, The fact that so many peolpe have to push it as the "center of the universe" makes me think they are nervous about their RE investments or perhaps are afraid that it isnt so great after all.

I am a little disappointed that SoldAtTheTop hasn't weighed in. :)

#79, very funny. Those cities you mentioned are great cities (maybe except Dubai), but have you ever been to them - the weather sucks in almost all of those cities, just in different forms.

#78, i believe the "hub of the universe slogan" was made in jest. And DC's transit system is good, but SF isn't so great. People complain about the T all of the time, but I believe it is actually better than it was years ago, at least in the commutes that I've done on a regular basis.

Back to the main point, housing is expensive in Boston, and should certainly go through a much needed corrective period. Same as other parts of the country, and world. This is not just a local phenomenon.

I'm a renter currently and looking to buy over the next year or two. Would actually like to buy a "vacation" property, possibly on the Cape or near the beaches in RI. Anyone have constructive thoughts on vacation-type properties.

"I am glad i was able to buy a house in Newton at the time ,and i say that to let the people know that anything is possible, as long as you are willing to make the trade offs with other things. Now people are saying again how expensive are the houses in Newton. They said that 10 years ago and 20 years ago...I hope i made my point."

I agree with this statement. I bought my condo in south boston 6 years ago making 35k, and the market wasn't much cheaper. Want to know how I did it? I got a second job, I made a choice. I would guess than many of the people complaining (not all, but many) are people who aren't realistic in their expectations of what their first house should be like. If you are a first time buyer, it is highly unlikely you are going to get a four bedroom home with a two car garage in a safe neighborhood with a great school system, unless you are making 5x what the average first time buyer makes.

I don;t mean to sound harsh, but I feel like a lot of people on this board are just spoiled, and not willing to make compromises. I would have loved a two bedroom condo with parking when I first bought. Guess what, I ended up with a one bedroom with street parking. Now, I just bought a single family in southie. Its a matter of getting into the game and upgrading, not getting your dream home on the first try.

and another thing, prices are only as high as the market will bear. Many prices are still expensive because THERE ARE PEOPLE WILLING TO PAY HIGH PRICES IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS. If you aren't one of those people, then by all means, move to freakin Ohio, where people will still be complaining about prices. Houses aren't cheap, and they require budgeting and financial commitment.

About 3 years ago, I was considering moving to either Boston or NYC. I had job offers in both places. This was at the height of the real estate bubble and housing prices were a big factor in my decision. I chose NY. Boston was cheaper at the time, but it seemed clear to me that prices in Boston were more out of line relative to the strength of the local economy. Quite simply, there are far more opportunities to make a lot of money in NYC than in Boston. House prices in Boston should be significantly cheaper than NY, not just modestly cheaper. What is interesting is that prices in NY kept rising until the middle of 2007, whereas in Boston the bubble started to deflate in 2006. Even as the bubble starts to deflate in NY, Boston prices appear to be headed down much more quickly, so that now Boston is looking much more attractive to me as a place to live. If I had to choose where to move today, the decision would be more difficult. The bottom line is that house prices should be commensurate with incomes, and right now I think Boston is closer to this than NYC (though both are still overpriced).

#83, I think your analysis was correct when you made your choice 3 years ago. Now I think you may see NY start to deflate quicker, espeically Manhatten. NYC rose for a longer period of time most likely because the Investment Banks - which drive the NYC market - were doing well into 2007. Their problems are just coming to light and the layoffs are just starting at those places. I think there will be more layoffs to come which almost certainly, will negatively affect the prices there. I think the Boston economy will weather the storm more so than some places, but the bottom line is that that may happen and prices could still fall significantly. Best of luck w/ either choice.

Quoting #43:
""You can basically trip over a job in Boston that pays 100k. The local economy is great ..."

PLEASE tell me where I can " trip" over a job paying $100,000 !! MA job market still has not replaced half of the jobs lost in the recession of 2000-02 !"

Yup- not only that, but because the state is so expensive, even big companies which ought to be the ones leading MA and keeping talented people here are holding the line on salaries and moving out of state to cut costs because MA has gotten so expensive. That's a bad cycle to be in.

Quoting #76:
"Boston is becoming a rich/poor community, from 2000 to 2005 the percent of people below poverty in boston increased frim 19% to 23%. The snooty elitest dont care. I'm a fourteen year-old black male from Milton and can fully see what goes on around Masschusetts. The liberals want to take over everything. The yuppies move into previously working-class white/minority neighborhoods like Dorchester."

Lee, you're confused here- if you want to feel squeezed out, elect conservatives and see how you're doing when you grow up. At least liberals, even if rich, will vote to keep funding going to education in your community for example. The may not do enough, but they're not going to actively try to keep you down and out.

Snooty elitists who don't care about you ARE your problems, not liberals, OK? It's a class issue, not a political problem. But if you're going to point a finger at an ideology, you're pointing toward the wrong end of the spectrum.

Personally I moved here from Cleveland not too long ago. And it is more expensive. But I will gladly pay more to live in Boston and all it has to offer. Some people want a big house a nice yard with money left over for a big screen TV. Some people, like me, would rather live in a great city that has a lot to offer. Go to Cleveland, I lived there for 5 years... every other word out of people's mouths is talking about what Cleveland used to be or how bad the job market is etc. If you want to go buy your palatial estate in Cleveland please do... maybe I can buy your house sometime soon. Also I have to say that my salary and job/education opportunities in Boston have more than made up for the higher cost of living. Maybe one day I will have a family to focus on and will want to move but for now as a single young professional i am very happy here in Boston.

People in Cleveland know the secret of having a fantastic group of neighborhoods that have withstood the comments of those who've never lived there. From the West Side Market to the magnificent Emerald Necklace of Metroparks breathing nature into the city, there really is not question in my mind that Cleveland has much to offer. Those in Cleveland don't go around saying that their city is better than anyone else's; in fact, they sometimes do the opposite. Cleveland has the restaurants, the theater, the museums, and a reasonable cost of living. Cleveland's airport, hub for Continental, and amazing RTA access to it (45 min from University Circle = $1.50!!!) is an amazing service that really can't be matched by the T.

I'm 30, getting married, and an elementary school teacher. Looking at a combined income of $60,000 for next year should mean we can buy, right? And possibly have a child in a couple of years? Is that possible in Boston?