Don't ask, don't tell

Rona, what an excellent topic considering the recent Globe article. http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/04/14/lead_problem_puts_couple_in_bind/

In my own home purchase (built circa 1920) 1 year ago, my husband and I signed the paperwork saying the sellers had "no knowledge" of lead paint, and opted not to test. We are simply assuming that there is indeed lead paint all over the property, and are taking every precaution as though there were lead paint present, keeping all paint in tip top condition, and micro-managing dust.

Now as we await a newborn in the house, we are cognizant that we must make sure he never chews on windowsills and plan to advise other parents to take precautions in our home. Short of bringing in a hazmat team to de-lead, we think this is our best and most rational option.

We moved here and I must say the whole lead paint thing scared the goobers out of me. One of my children was 3 years and the other was 6 week old. We none of the wood work has beend painted so we felt safe buying. I am sure the outside is another story but we didn't let the kids eat the dirst or chew on the side of the house no matter how much they begged.

Lead is no joke, but it isn't Chernobyl, either. Almost everyone in America over 30 years of age grew up in a house with lead paint, and most of us survived unscathed.

As you say, the law discourages homeowners from testing, because if they do, and flunk, they face a massively expensive cleanup. So the law has relatively little effect on the vast old single-family housing stock of New England. But it has a very big effect on the pocketbooks of the industry groups who lobbied for it.

Lead paint is a serious issue that could influence the value of older properties, as newer constructed units are built and compete with older units in the marketplace. The consequences of lead poisoning on the central and peripheral nervous system and on kidney function are profound. It is a public health hazard. I doubt that any politician would want to present a bill to require all sellers to abate their properties before the sale of any property at risk. However, it would eventually eliminate the problem.

We no longer have lead in gasoline. Septic systems must be up to code on the Cape when a home is sold. Other public health hazards, such as in ground oil tanks, are disappearing because banks will not issue mortgages on these properties. The mortgage companies / banks would be performing a useful public service it they would bypass the politicians and require all sellers to abate their properties prior to sale. This idea may sound drastic, until you realize the tremendous cost to society of lead poisoning.

Hi everyone - Rona here.

I want to clarify a common misconception about lead paint. The easiest way for children to get poisoned is from lead dust, not from eating lead chips. Dust generally comes from surfaces that rub together, like windows going up and down. The dust lands on the floor where the little ones play. They get it on their hands and toys.

Your best defense, besides deleading you home, is to wash the little one's hands as often as you can. Damp mop the floor and sponge-clean the window sills. Also, a good diet, rich in fruits and vegetables and lots of fluid helps protect you and your children.

One other thing about lead, it is sweet. That's why kids suck on it.

Most of us grew up in lead painted houses. Few of us suffered brain or kidney damage from it. However, some children did and that damage was irreparable.

Rona, your comment points out another one of the ironies, or perhaps I should say cruelties, of the current law. Most kids will never suffer from lead paint, even if they grow up in an old house. But some will. And if high lead levels are caught early enough, the damage can be prevented. Yet (correct me if I'm wrong) the law also discourages parents from testing their kids as a preventative measure--if you find lead, it gets immediately reported and remediation is inevitable. So many kids that could be helped, aren't.

We purchased a home in Roslindale last July. We also have a toddler. We had the house tested, and remediated. In the end, it cost us just over $10,000 (and we received $1500 back as a tax credit) for the entire house, and it took 1.5 weeks. Not a terrible price to pay to avoid lead poisoning. In our case, there was no "just avoid it" possibility - some of the paint was chipping, some had been inadvertently sanded by the people refinishing the wood floors, so lead dust was everywhere.

A lot of times more lead dust is raised by remediation than would be by natural use.

There is no need to test for lead paint. Any house built before 1978 - which is to say almost every house in Mass - has it. Testing just leads to regulatory hell.

Interestingly enough, the incidence of lead poisoning doesn't seem to correlate with the age of the housing stock in the community, but rather education and other socioeconomic issues. There is very little lead poisoning in the old houses in Wellesley, Lexington, and Newton, and a lot more in Dorchester. Which implies that far more important than the presence of lead is people monitoring their children.

You can look up property on line in a database, to determine if it has tested abnormal in the past. The inspectors are required to report all abnormal tests. You might be surprised by what you find (I was). Just plug in a street name / address. As such, there should be no excuse by either a Buyers agent or a Sellers agent for "Don't ask - Don' t tell" if an abnormal test is listed in this database.

http://webapps.ehs.state.ma.us/Leadsafehomes/default.aspx

This is the link to a database of abnormal lead inspected homes.

Even low level exposures can damage the developing brain. All of you who live in Lexington, Newton, Wellesley, etc, take note........... The symptoms can be as subtle as unexplained behavioral change............... "Blood lead concentrations, even those below 10 microg per deciliter, are inversely associated with children's IQ scores at three and five years of age, and associated declines in IQ are greater at these concentrations than at higher concentrations. These findings suggest that more U.S. children may be adversely affected by environmental lead than previously estimated." N Engl J Med. 2003 Apr 17;348(16):1517-26.

"Yet (correct me if I'm wrong) the law also discourages parents from testing their kids as a preventative measure--if you find lead, it gets immediately reported and remediation is inevitable. So many kids that could be helped, aren't." - Marcus

Actually that's not true. By law, all children in the Commonwealth are tested for lead at the age of 9-12 months and ages 2 and 3. And if those tests show high levels of lead in the child's bloodstream, then the property WILL be inspected for lead by a state official, and if lead paint is found then it must be removed.

You can find more about the topic and the Childhood Lead Poisoning Prevention Program on the Massachusetts State website:

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eohhs2terminal&L=5&L0=Home&L1=Government&L2=Departments+and+Divisions&L3=Department+of+Public+Health&L4=Programs+and+Services+A+-+J&sid=Eeohhs2&b=terminalcontent&f=dph_environmental_lead_g_clppp_about&csid=Eeohhs2

i recently moved cross-country to boston with a new baby in hand. i found a townhouse that seemed a good fit for my new family. i asked the landlord if there was lead-- he said no. i spent thousands of dollars to ship my furniture and buy air conditioning units for the windows. i paid to have a doggy-door and the air conditioners installed. a few days before we moved in, the landlord informed us that he had made a mistake. there was lead, and lots of it. there was chipping paint in windowsills, doorways, etc. there was alot of dust. it was bad. he told us that he would be willing to delead, but that it would take a few weeks--because he was unwilling to pay anyone to do it. he wanted to take a course and become certified to do the job himself. he was a laywer, not a carpenter. he said that he would cover our items, baby toys/seat/etc., with plastic, and do the extensive de-leading.... if we wanted him to. we were angry and confused--would it be safer to just leave the lead as is, or would it be safer to have this amateur try to delead the entire place himself? it seemed even more hazardous to stir up alot of lead-laden dust. ultimately, we decided to move out of the place soon after arrival. he didn't refund any of our costs. we found a much smaller, but lead-free, apartment in cambridge. it was a total nightmare and waste of time, effort, and money.

lead is not chernobyl? that is interesting. the data is compelling that lead can drop your kids IQ, even at low levels--according to a new england journal study (one of the highest quality peer-reviewed medical journals in the world). some studies suggest that lead can also lead to behavioral disabilities and autism-although i'm not suggesting that lead is the only cause of autism.
in contrast, only one cancer type has been definitively linked to chernobyl... papillary thyroid cancer in children exposed to chernobyl. and almost nobody dies from this type of cancer.

lead, and other toxic environmental substances, are important health hazards. our children today are certainly exposed to more crap than previous generations. and, in my opinion, it is starting to show in startling rates of behavioral disabilities.

GB -- Thank you for this site. I'll bet that several mom's groups will be adding this resource to their sites.

Could you quote the part of the New England Journal study that shows that simply living in an older home is enough to cause brain damage? That could explain a lot.

mysticriver, I think my point still stands. If a mom thinks her child is acting oddly, and it's over 3 years old, the current law may discourage testing.

This issue points out one of the problems with Massachusetts, the housing stock is overall old and in poor shape. Young families would prefer to live in lead free housing, obviously. Sadly, even if you make two very good incomes, if you want to be in a town with decent schools, you are stuck buying a really old house that will invariably have lead paint.
I think the issue of "dont ask, dont tell" is sidestepping the real issue, what is the matter with the prices in Mass that they are so high overall that hard working, well educated people making good incomes cannot afford to live in a decent house? Most of these homes with lead paint are over half a century old and are small, dingy outdated splits, ranches or capes.
I, for one, welcome the pricing correction for the good of our commonwealth.

Fantastic topic. Thanks, Rona There is much good information here, that I will share with my buyers. At my agency, we do tell everything we know about lead paint, it's possible effects, the process of testing children by the pediatrician, and the consequences if there is a a high level reading on the child. The results will be sent to the State, and the homeowner will be required to test the home and remediate the lead paint. A potential buyer must be aware of the risks, even if they agree to sign the disclosure that states the current homeowner "has no knowledge" of the presence of lead paint. I have a friend whose nephew suffered irreparable brain damage from lead paint. Rare, yes, worth fixing YES! Buyers must be informed of the risks and their obligations before signing.

Call me ignorant, but I think the whole lead issue is ridiculous. We should be more concerned about the genetically modified food and artificial sweeteners we allow our kids to eat, or the chemical-laden carpets we let them crawl on. I didn't need a lead test to know the home I bought in Dorchester had lead in it. Jeez - go ahead and try to buy a single family home in this city without lead. Good luck! Anyway, my daughter has grown up in the house, gets tested for lead regularly, and there has never been even the slightest trace of it in her body. Why in the heck would I pay $10,000 to delead my house? Even if I thought I needed the de-leading, I don't have $10k to spend on it, so.... If you have lead paint, make sure it's not flaking off, and make sure you keep the floors clean.

Not all old houses have lead paint. Traditionally interiors had wallpaper and varnished wood. Paint was not used. Milk paint wall stencils substituted for wallpaper. The old lead paint was oil based. Generally people avoided that expensive malodorous stuff indoors. Look at old pictures. Poor urban tenements seemed to have wallpaper (perhaps there was so little ventilation they didn't want to use oil based paint). The dangers of lead were figured out by the 60's, lead paint served little purpose indoors, latex paint replaced oil based, and I believe there is less of it than is popularly believed. Apartment complexes built in the 60's & 70's probably didn't use it.
But apparently some non-tradiitonalists must have painted interiors with oil based lead paint at some point in the past, when natural woodwork and wallpaper went out of style. Much lead dust comes from the exterior windows and frames, and blows in from urban contaminated soil.

Lead is dangerous if consumed, no doubt. But once again probably everyone of us posting here grew up in a house with lead in it. THe danger can be overstated.

Whereas the danger of obesity, with very clear health problems, and a generation of kids that will probably be the first in the US to have a lower life expectancy than their parents, is ignored. I walked through the mall today and all the teenagers were fat. Amazing.

We should pay more attention to corn syrup, rather than fear mongering about lead

marcus, your sarcastic response is pointless. lead exposure in children is a real problem. it will be difficult, if not impossible, to clearly define the true damage that lead exposure has caused to our children.
interestingly, i just came across this article in today's news... which prompted me to post:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24859565/

grego, you are worried about genetically modified foods and sweeteners? those issues have been clearly defined and tested in animals. i'm not concerned about either... in particular, with regards to my children. the toxicity of lead exposure in children is real.

the lead issue is not