How old is that roof?

I disagree... seller's memory is not a valid source of information unless there is documentation to support it. The intent really doesn't matter. This is a case of malpractice. The agent and seller seem to have learned some "bad habits" from some of our recent politicians.

This realtor should be held liable for any errors he made. He and the seller should be held responsible for the cost of a new roof, it there is a buyer who now must replace the roof after purchasing this house based on their misinformation

Regarding the comment: "That is why “Seller’s Description of Property” pages are filled with checkmarks on “unknown.” " There are too many checkmarks for "unknown" (such as lead paint in circumstances when the public record reports the presence of failed inspections) that really mean "I have not checked". It is laziness and foolishness for a real estate agent not to corroborate information for which there is a known public record.

Legal action to what end? Reimbursement for the cost of the home inspection? Publish the name of the seller's agent/broker and let the public decide his/her level of accountability.

Experienced Home Inspectors learn early in their life never to trust the claims made by sellers or their agents whose only source of information about the home is the seller. In some cases it's merely faulty memory (exactly, how old is your roof today?), in others it's deliberate deception. In yet other cases a poorly ventilated roof that is only ten years old could be at the end of its life. Bottom line, get a home inspection.

One of the reasons buyers routinely do home inspections prior to a purchase is to get an independent assessment of the home's condition - and not depend on the seller's recollection of when a roof or a septic system was updated or replaced. I'm not sure why the seller's agent in the example above was apparently defending his or her client's position on an issue as mundane as the age of a roof. It serves no constructive purpose.

"In yet other cases a poorly ventilated roof that is only ten years old could be at the end of its life. "

I experienced this firsthand. Our house, only 30 years old, turns out to be on its 3rd (final - next layer will need stripping!) roof layer. Our inspector showed us how the almost completely plugged up soffits had caused the owners to do expensive roof replacements when all they had to do was pull back the insulation and allow proper airflow.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I'm hope this a case where the seller gave the agent bad info, and not one where the agent was party to the deception. Sellers lie to agents - I've seen it far too often - so I routinely doublecheck everything at Town Hall when I'm taking a listing. But I've seen too many cases where the permit process was skipped by homeowners and/or towns have messy records, so I'm not sure how the agent could have definitively confirmed that the roof was 4 years old. My guess is the agent took the sellers at their word but I don't understand his/her repeated defense after inspection....I would have immediately asked the seller for proof after seeing the inspection report.

(IMO) If the agent knowingly passed along false information he/she should be severely sanctioned including suspension or loss of license.

If I was the buyer's agent, I'd be worried that there were other things the sellers lied about, too, and would immediately check on all permits issued to that property and question everything - especially any electrical work and installations of any gas appliances. I'd also check with the Conservation Commission, Board of Health, Fire Department, Water Department etc. to see if there's any other info on the property and area. And of course, I'd suggest the buyer renegotiate the price.

The buyers should also seriously consider walking away from the house - there are plenty more for sale - and that in itself would be punishment for the sellers who can't say they "forgot" the roof's age and who may not find another buyer for months.

Prior to becoming an Exclusive Buyer Agent with Buyer Brokerage Realty I worked for a real estate agency that listed property. I had a listing that was being sold by a son and daughter on behalf of their ailing parents. The siblings had never lived in the house. The parents said the house had never gotten water in the basement, Never, Never, Never.
There was an intermitting stream that ran down a hill behind the .3 acre lot and then ran through a culvert between this house and the neighbors which emptied in a street drain. Neighbors told me the fire department had pumped out basements in the neighborhood for years. I confirmed this with the fire department but there was no record of this house’s basement being pumped out by the fire department.
While the parents were living in the house, about 4 lots away they were clearing a rocky ledged hill to make way for dozens of condos. It was after the parents moved out of the house to an assisted living situation when the blasting of the ledge took place.
I checked the house daily since the siblings didn’t live close by. One day I saw a small pool of water on the basement floor and called the son and daughter to report it. Both responded “our parents never had water in that basement”. This was also stated on the seller’s disclosure.
I attached an addendum to the listing sheet stating where I saw water. The buyer and his agent were presented with this information. Although the sellers’ son and daughter weren’t happy about it, they understood I had to make this disclosure public.
After the closing and before the buyer moved in it rained- Alot. The basement filled up with water. Was the course of the intermitting stream which was running like a waterfall disturbed by the blasting? Did the sellers get water in the past?
The buyer resold the house for the same amount as he paid to a buyer that wanted to teardown the house and build her dream house in her parents’ neighborhood.

I'm the buyer and I walked away from the house.

In the state we moved from the seller AND the listing agent would have had legal problems for this scenario and rightly so, I say. The sellers at the very least would have had to replace the roof immediately.

This is the greatest reason we file for all municipal permits and keep all receipts. The second is for insurance purposes (ours and future owners).

FYI - for future reference...It's easy enough to look up permits that have been pulled on a property prior putting in an offer and saving yourself the expense of hiring an inspector.

I have to jump back into this discussion - Perceptive Listener said

"It's easy enough to look up permits that have been pulled on a property prior putting in an offer and saving yourself the expense of hiring an inspector."

Looking up the permits is NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR HIRING AN INSPECTOR! It's always a good thing to do but will not give you any insight into problems that only a professional can find - attic ventilation problem, heating/cooling issues, problems with runoff,drainage,water temperature, lighting, electrical, insects and so many more things that inspectors check.

When I look up permits I can find out if there is an "illegal" finished basement or shed (a shed can be a big deal if there are wetlands nearby), if the owners installed gas appliances correctly, replaced the roof, etc. or if they made bootleg improvements - commonplace but not necessarily up to code. I can use that info to aid an inspector (if I'm abuyer's agent) or to alert the seller that they have a potential for problem.

As a seller's agent, I will often put together a "book" of information - including permits - for potential buyers to view.

ALWAYS hire an inspector! Saving the few hundred dollars there can cost you much more in the long run!

Michael, I think you did the right thing. This is exactly why having an inspection is so very important. A buyer can then make a decision to re-negotiate based on the inspector's findings, or walk away, if there is something that the buyer doesn't want to deal with, such as a 20 year old roof. Sellers frequently forget when home improvements were completed, and most of the time, it's not intentional deception. However, intentional deception exists, and the buyer must beware, and through his/her own diligence, be as fully informed of the homes' condition as possible. As an agent, I often as a seller for receipts for the more expensive (roof, furnace, windows) as validity to potential buyers of age and quality.

madriver, thanks for popping back in on that comment. I didn't exactly mean it as I wrote it! I would never purchase OR recommend anyone purchase a home without an inspection. What I meant was that I would not put an offer on a home that claimed to have "X" new without permits having been pulled (such as a new roof). In those cases I save myself the fees of hiring the inspector because I pass on the house.

Nice story as for me. I'd like to read a bit more about this theme.