< Back to Front Page Text size +

Spooky thought

Posted by Stacey Myers September 22, 2008 10:24 AM

One of the guys I work with is preparing to buy a home, so he has been researching buyer’s rights, etc., and he was intrigued when he read the disclosure law and came across the rules about “psychologically impacted” properties.

Seems in Massachusetts the seller’s real estate agent is under no obligation to tell prospective buyers if the house is believed to be haunted, or if the property was the site of a violent crime such as murder. State consumer protection law basically says that information isn’t germane to a property’s condition. The only disclosure that’s absolutely mandated under the law is whether the property contains lead paint or not, according to Mike McDonagh, an attorney at the Massachusetts Association of Realtors.

(To read the "psychologically impacted" property rule click here or for more information visit the state trial court's website.)

“But it’s very important to remember that if the buyer makes the inquiry, the broker and the seller must answer the question honestly,” McDonagh said. “They can’t make misrepresentations about the property.”

So if you have suspicions a property may be the site of “an alleged parapsychological or supernatural phenomenon” or a felony, suicide, or homicide, you can always ask. The real estate agent faces possible penalties if he or she offers misleading information.

This rule makes me wonder about the people in California who own the house where “Clark Rockefeller,” or Christian Gerhartsreiter, once lived. After he was found this summer with the daughter he was accused of kidnapping in Boston, his real identity was uncovered and authorities learned that his former landlords in California had disappeared in 1985. Authorities wound up back at that property with cadaver dogs looking for clues to the unsolved disappearance.

I'm not sure if the property was sold after the young couple disappeared, but if it was I wonder if the current owners knew about the disappearance and if they ever thought investigators might someday show up to search the property?

Would you consider buying a house where a crime had occurred? What about a home suspected of being haunted? Would you bother to ask if a house was haunted?

Enjoyed this post? Get blog updates delivered to your reader. Click here.

  • CommentComment
  • EmailEmail
28 comments so far...
  1. I think worrying about whether a house is haunted is the exact antithesis of rational house buying.

    Your colleague would be better off worrying about buying a house in a market that is very likely to drop considerably further.

    I'd be haunted by that - a decent drop will likely immediately write down all equity in the property. Granted your colleague doesn't have to mark to market, and is unlikely to face a lehman like funding crisis, but still why imitate the same approach that is bankrupting wall street?

    The Fed is unlikely to step in to bail out your colleague - its too busy playing havoc with my shorts. (For what it's worth, I'm still a bear on the financial markets, but the variables have gone too opaque - its time to unwind my positions until its clear what the govt will do. Very annoying)

    Posted by charles September 22, 08 11:24 AM
  1. I've heard this before. You have to ask if you want to know. I would feel silly asking but I suppose it's better than moving in and being freaked out.

    Posted by Rhea September 22, 08 11:38 AM
  1. What is spooky is on the day that Congress is debating a bill that would double the national debt your blog is discussing fluff like this.

    Great job!

    The dumbing down of America continues. Maybe we can blog about Dancing With The Stars or American Idon and how Dancing and Singing neighbors affect a sale.

    You My friend are a DOPE!

    Posted by Ryan Seacrest September 22, 08 02:19 PM
  1. I would, I bought a condo where someone was murdered a few years back. The guy I bought it from never told me and from day one I felt this wierd feeling of doom and on many occasions would see doors open for no reason. I only heard about the murder from a woman down the hall who told me the previous owner was murdered by a jealous boyfriend in my room. Lucky for me the market was strong back then and I was able to sell. I even told the buyer, he was buying to rent so I guess he didn't care.

    Posted by DagItAlll September 22, 08 02:44 PM
  1. i would not buy a house if during the viewing my parents "sensed" something is not right. they have a sensitivity to deceased spirits or other paranormal activity. it won't affect me because i can't sense it. but i have to worry about my future family/spouse. spirits can not only scare people but bring bad luck and misfortune.

    Posted by james September 22, 08 02:59 PM
  1. Ok charles my good man, first off congratulations on getting married. Second, I'm countering your recent bold predictions with my own: I'm giving Boston another 8% drop before bottom next year. Where do I get this? Have I been sweatily crunching numbers in my basement? No....Goldman Sachs is predicting another 10% drop for housing nationally, and Boston futures have our nominal prices finishing at about a 20% drop peak to trough (in 2012), meaning we've got 8% more to go. Since we've been slightly lower than national numbers all along this makes sense to me. And that's it, that's my Grand Analysis.

    About the haunted stuff, if it were just me and my wife I wouldn't care, it would be kind of a fun party story, but with kids you sort of think differently. You strive for good karma and a good environment. Not saying it would make the difference, but it would give pause, as they say.

    Posted by accidental landlord September 22, 08 03:05 PM
  1. A good question to ask is, "Are you aware of any notorious events that have occured at the property or were commited by the current or former owners?" This covers a host of possibilities, but only if they have knowledge of them.

    I certainly would think twice about buying a home owned by a criminal or a home that has hosted criminal activity for fear that someone might show up looking for no good.

    I have also seen homes where murders have occured and no buyer is willing to make a market price offer on them if they are aware of the event. That absolutely affects market value.

    Haunting is much more subjective. Some people don't care or don't believe a home can be haunted so it is much easier to deal with that than actual events.

    Posted by Dina September 22, 08 03:18 PM
  1. I would ask (more than once), and no, I would not buy a haunted house under any circumstances

    Posted by Auggie September 22, 08 03:23 PM
  1. I think that you are crazy if you think a "ghost" would visit a home. Are you so narrow minded that you actually believe that their ARE ghosts?
    Come on now, I know many people will say that I am the nut, but seriously.
    Lizzy Borden's place in Fall River is supposedly haunted...and it rakes money based on peoples fears that a ghost is around every night. The only ghost is the money that once appeared in your wallet! "IF" it is real, make a profit right? Why not just ride the ghost gravy train? I have a ghost in my house, it's the pipes clanging...the floor boards creaking and the neighbors loud bass. Care to rent a room and find those ghosts?

    Posted by Boo-Im-Scared September 22, 08 03:30 PM
  1. You need to lighten up Ryan Seacrest. Life's too short to worry all day and night about things we cannot control. I just ate the BEST golden delicious apple I've ever had, and I had a really nice chat with a friend about nothing political or financial, and the laughter did me a lot of good.

    There'll be plenty of time for all of us to worry about the state of this country, and indeed, the world, once we learn more about what's going to happen to us all and to our money. For now, though, I am not going to blur my optimism of life in general by refusing to immerse myself in some fluff now and then.

    peace2you

    Posted by Auggie September 22, 08 03:42 PM
  1. I do believe in ghosts, I do believe in ghosts, I do, I do, I do, I do, I DO believe in ghosts.

    The scarecrow said that.

    You should not ridicule what you don't know.

    I said that.

    Posted by Auggie September 22, 08 04:07 PM
  1. Suicide or homicide would definitely make me think twice about the house. Even if there is not an active haunting, it's just "bad tutu" as they say!!

    If there was an alleged haunting, it would matter to me what the specifics were. Harmless spectors are one thing, but you do hear about the more suspect cases now and then and I would feel bad if I had the potential to subject my family to harm and knew about it beforehand.

    Boo-I'm-Scared, who's narrow minded...someone who believes in the possibility or someone who doesn't? Just like God, there's no absolute proof either way that ghosts exist. I'm at least willing to accept the possibility that they do. Apparently you're not.

    Posted by Bluidshay September 22, 08 04:22 PM
  1. Yes, I've heard of this little disclaimer. I'd be more worried about something sinister that happened in the past, that leaves the imagination open to anything and everything.
    Not every haunted house is bad....I visit one regularly. I've seen him, know his name, and plays tricks once and a while for his amusement, but nothing harmful.
    He's just "another member of the family"...kinda the cooky-uncle you don't mention unless you have to.
    The universe is a wild and mysterious place....maybe not all phenomenon is meant to be fully understood. If you believe....great.....if you don't....just as happy for you.

    Posted by WestWitch September 22, 08 04:23 PM
  1. accidental landlord - that's a very defensible thesis. I think it will be more, but the chance you are right is very solid.

    Thank you for the congratulations, though I think they were best aimed at my gf. Amongst my many virtues appears to be a good solid bit of commitment-phobia. (tongue in cheek people, I know the sentiment here is generally I=suck, and the other emotions Cassandras usually elicit).

    Someone above made a good point I hadn't thought about - it is worth asking about bad events on the property, as even if say I don't care, the person I sell it to may well.

    On the other hand, a genuine, provable, haunted house would be like a winning lottery ticket. Gotta be hugely monetizable.

    Posted by charles September 22, 08 05:21 PM
  1. People are free to believe in whatever they want to, including ghosts. I personally don't, and I know for a fact that the sister of the woman whom we purchased our house from wasted away in our house from cancer and eventually died in the house and it hasn't altered my feelings on the place one iota. A student supposedly killed himself in the dorm room I lived in Sophmore year in college.

    I have an adult family friend who believes in all that paranormal stuff and I'm sure she'd eat it all up and be terrified or fascinated by all that stuff, but for me, I just don't care. Just as I think a lot of people take religion way too seriously, I think people take this ghosts and paranormal thing way too seriously. I believed in it when I was a kid, but then I grew up. Again - not trying to disparage anyone else's beliefs, you're all free to believe whatever you want - and if your irrationality lowers my purchase price, all the better. :)

    Posted by J.P. September 22, 08 05:24 PM
  1. I have to agree with Ryan S. and bemoan the fact that Binyamin is not still running the blog. Ghosts?
    The most significant changes to our nation's financial picture since the Great Depression and your blogging about ghosts and water bills?
    Come on guys, get serious. Last I checked, the banner above you says The Boston Globe. That used to mean something.
    People are in trouble out there. You have a forum here, people read it. That means you have a responsiblity to the greater good than helping sell some realty/mortgage adds and talking about fluff.
    Here are some potential topics to blog about:
    -How do people feel about the bail out including FOREIGN OWNED banks? Do you want your tax dollars to bail out UBS, Credit Suisse, Deautshe Bank, Barcleys London, Bank of Hong Kong, Bank of Dubai, etc. instead of having taxpayers of those nations bail out their own firms?

    -Should taxpayers get an ownership interest in banks we bail out so we can recover some of the $1 trillion?

    -Should those involved in administering the bail out be forbidden from taking a highly paid position in a financial firm after they are done, to prevent conflict of interests and corruption?

    -Should taxpayer money be used to prevent foreclosures of homeowners?

    -Should taxpayer money be used to artifically keep home prices high, preventing first time buyers from purchasing (by using their tax dollars)?

    I can think of more things to talk about more important than ghosts.
    Boo!

    Posted by bubbleboy September 22, 08 08:20 PM
  1. Bluidshay...its bad "juju"...tutu was never bad...he just wanted to end apartheid in S. Africa.

    Posted by GG September 22, 08 09:12 PM
  1. It's the ghost of healthy housing markets past!

    Hmmm...aren't there more important housing related issues at the moment?

    If the ghost is willing to cough up some $$ for rent, they can stay. Otherwise, they'll be out on the curb.

    Posted by G September 22, 08 10:36 PM
  1. Speaking of which, the new Warren report on Mass numbers down in august to 2002 numbers would make an interesting blog entry.

    As would whether or not the bailout of wall street will actually have any affect on the housing market - I dont think it will, but for some reason there's this sentiment out there that it will help.

    Posted by charles September 23, 08 09:41 AM
  1. I already did !

    Posted by Yikes7351 September 23, 08 09:50 AM
  1. So, an interesting factoid about Massachusetts real estate disclosure law is posted (I find the "you don't have to disclose, but if you're asked, you can't lie" aspect fascinating), and some people here are taking the writer to task for not talking about the financial crisis?

    In case you didn't notice, news, analysis, and more of that is pasted all over the Globe and its website. There's no lack of coverage here (a quick perusal shows 4 previous posts on the crisis in this blog during the past week).

    This is a blog on Mass. real estate, and this post deals with Mass. real estate law.
    What's the problem?

    As for the post ... I wonder if legally the "no comment" answer gets a seller off the hook. If you say "no comment," you're not lying, but you're also not legally obligated to present the truth (as long as you're not lying). Then again, I would think saying "no comment" would make a buyer a tad bit suspicious.

    Posted by bigredcat September 23, 08 09:55 AM
  1. To everyone who is using this post to shoot the messenger; relax. The Wall St to Main St bail out is far bigger and more complicated than anything we can comprehend and really, we have no control so I for one was happy to see this frivolous subject and especially as Halloween is around the corner - by retailers standards.

    Personally, I would not want to live in a home where there had been any violent activity that resulted in murder, whether notorious or not. Just bad Karma. As for being haunted, there isn't much a spirit can do except cause a little mischief and think it would make for great conversations.

    BEETLEJUICE BEETLEJUICE BEETLEJUICE

    Posted by A Dingo Ate My Baby September 23, 08 10:04 AM
  1. If it were a friendly ghost, like Caspar, absolutely. But if we're talking about creepy twins running around like "The Shining" then absolutely not.

    Posted by Delbert Grady September 23, 08 11:20 AM
  1. wow, will a chump who believes in ghosts sell me their house for cheap? brilliant.

    Posted by rational September 23, 08 11:37 AM
  1. Actually, it was the Cowardly Lion who said "I do believe in spooks, I do believe in spooks. I do -- I do -- I do -- I do -- I do -- I...."

    Posted by WAUNY September 23, 08 12:58 PM
  1. "I think that you are crazy if you think a "ghost" would visit a home. Are you so n
    narrow minded that you actually believe that their ARE ghosts? "

    hey "boo-i'm-scared", i don't think you quite understand the meaning of the phrase "narrow-minded". you, in fact, are the narrow-minded one for ridiculing those who believe in ghosts.

    Posted by bostonlifer September 23, 08 02:33 PM
  1. Any excuse to get Oysters Rockefeller's name back in the news, eh? After all, there hadn't been a news story about him since September 3rd. Way to go, Globe!

    Posted by Hugo Fitch September 23, 08 03:45 PM
  1. Rather than debating whether the question should have been asked, I will just answer it.

    First, it's always smart to ask about notorious events, less they come back to haunt you, at least at resale.

    Second, I would be very careful about a house that's been repeatedly linked with crime. Some interesting research in criminology suggests that crime is actually associated with specific properties for reasons unknown. A house or building may be in a convenient location for criminals; it may have built-in security weaknesses, such as lack of visibility from the street; it may be a known haunt of criminals, like a crack house. No one knows the real reason, but the fact is, if a property either housed or repeatedly fell victim to criminals in the past, you might want to think twice about it.

    Finally, of course the law doesn't make you disclose ghosts. Anglo-American law does not acknowledge the supernatural, period. That's why we don't burn witches, allow juries to decide whether a plaintiff is the victim of a hex, or permit the government to enforce a religion.

    Posted by Marcus September 23, 08 10:15 PM
add your comment
Required
Required (will not be published)

This blogger might want to review your comment before posting it.

About boston real estate now
Scott Van Voorhis is a freelance writer who specializes in real estate and business issues.
Rona Fischman is a buyer's agent who provides a look at the local housing scene, from basements to attics.
archives