Knowing when it's time to go

"SO WHEN is it time for a leader to go?"

The question was put to me with glee this week by a diehard Boston Red Sox friend, more with malice than intellectual or practical interest. This was clearly in reference to Yankees Manager Joe Torre, though he could have been speaking of George Steinbrenner.

Having watched dozens of big bosses move on in the corporate world, I offer a few useful generalizations:

1) It is a rare person who should stay in a leadership job for more than 15 years, unless he founded the company at a young age. So Michael Dell gets a pass. But for the non-entrepreneur, you probably need to get out by your 15th anniversary. I have a friend who successfully ran a big company and told me that 10 years is enough. ``When I caught myself saying to people, `No, we tried that seven years ago and it didn't work,' I said it's time for me to get out of here. I'm going to be killing initiative, innovation, morale, who knows what if I'm not very careful." And true to his word, after 10 years he took an early retirement, even though the firm was doing quite well.

2) If you lose the confidence of the troops, and there is no way to gain it back within a year, you should go, no matter how long you have been in the job. Sometimes life is unfair. Events beyond your control can cast you in a bad light and there is not much you can do about it, even in 12 months. Then you probably have to move on. But, if a resurgence of faith in the boss is possible, and I don't mean a 1 in 100 shot, it may well be worth the try. It certainly will be so if the boss is really good at what he does.

3) If you have lost the confidence of the Big Guy, good luck. If he thinks you're over the hill, even if he doesn't fire you he will probably start to interfere in ways that will ultimately make it impossible to do your job. Worse, in doing so he may go out of his way to humiliate you. Better to go with your pride intact.

4) There is a corollary to Rule 3. If the Big Guy is a total jerk, and the customers know it, pressure from the people who pay the bills might give you the room to prove your worth.

5) Corollary to Rule 4. A total jerk sometimes ignores customers just as much as his management. If so, pack with some shred of dignity still intact.

So did the Yankees get it right in retaining Torre for one more year?

You shouldn't really ask me since I live in Boston and will be obliged to say no, regardless of what the correct answer is.

John Kotter is a professor of leadership at Harvard Business School and author of 11 books, most recently ``Our Iceberg Is Melting."