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GM meetings about to break up

Posted by Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff November 6, 2008 11:33 AM

DANA POINT, Calif. -- General managers just entered their final meeting before scattering back to their respective homes around the country.

Unlike last season, when Brad Lidge was dealt from Houston to Philadelphia, nothing appears to be happening here. The biggest news was Manny Ramirez receiving a lucrative 2- or 3-year offer from the Dodgers.

Theo Epstein will depart in about 90 minutes after the final meeting is over.

The Sox didn't make a deal, and according to Epstein nothing is imminent. But the proverbial foundation for deals and negotiations with free agents was established. He did admit there's one deal "we might be able to do before the winter meetings (Dec. 7)." That could involve Coco Crisp or Julio Lugo.

"We learned a lot about what teams were looking to do," Epstein said. "It'll be valuable information down the road."

Epstein said he engaged in some trade talk last night, but wouldn't specify the teams involved. He classified them as "conversations" and not anything firm.

"We're looking forward to the 14th [of November, when free agency begins] when we can start to get a feel for whether our evaluation of players is satisfactory or not," Epstein said.

Among some of the things the Sox may have established:

  • 1. Epstein and Scott Boras are far apart on Jason Varitek's monetary value. Boras is looking for a Jorge Posada-type deal (4 years, $52 million). The Sox are looking for a shorter terms and fewer dollars.

  • 2. The Sox have a market for Crisp and Lugo.

    Epstein clarified: "We're not calling around trying to trade our players, we're calling around trying to see the availability of other teams' players."

    Nonetheless, Crisp has value. With free agent Rafael Furcal drawing interest from 10 teams, it's telling of how tough it is to find a shortstop. So teams may engage the Red Sox, if they're willing to take on some of the contract or trade to a team that could exchange another bad contract.

  • 3. The Red Sox don't appear to be in on major pitching free agents like CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett, but are unsure about Derek Lowe. The Sox will likely add a veteran pitcher, which could from the free-agent pool, the Japanese market, or via trade.

  • 4. The Sox are after catchers. The two young Texas catchers -- Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Taylor Teagarden -- are high atop their list. Seattle's Jeff Clement has been mentioned. The Sox are also looking at trade possibilities for veterans like Bengie Molina. In a bind, they could opt for a year or two of Pudge Rodriguez.

  • 5. If the Sox successfully deal Crisp and Lugo, lose Mark Kotsay, they'll have to replenish with a fourth outfielder and backup shortstop. The Sox will likely be looking for a righthanded-hitting outfielder (Gabe Kapler or Rocco Baldelli?) and could add a shortstop to compete with Jed Lowrie (possibly Khalil Greene, if he's not dealt elsewhere by the Padres).

  • 6. Bullpen help. There's always that. The Sox will likely look to add a middle reliever to replace Mike Timlin.

  • 7. John Farrell will likely be interviewed for the Seattle managerial job. The Sox also need a first base coach.

  • 58 comments so far...
    1. What happened to Luis Alicea?

      Posted by Drew November 6, 08 12:57 PM
    1. maybe if derek lowe wants so bad to pitch for the red sox maybe he should drop his so called demands of 15 million a year down to a more reasonable 11-12 million

      Posted by doug November 6, 08 12:59 PM
    1. If they trade Coco, why not get Gary Sheffield as a 4th outfielder. He could platoon with JD. Drew could then platoon with Ellsbury. And Ellsbury could platoon with Bay giving everyone adequate at bats and rest.

      I know Sheff wears out his welcome quickly but a 2 year deal may work out and give us a good bat.

      Posted by Chris November 6, 08 01:11 PM
    1. If they trade Coco, why not get Gary Sheffield as a 4th outfielder. He could platoon with JD. Drew could then platoon with Ellsbury. And Ellsbury could platoon with Bay giving everyone adequate at bats and rest.

      I know Sheff wears out his welcome quickly but a 2 year deal may work out and give us a good bat.

      Posted by Chris November 6, 08 01:11 PM
    1. I love Tek and want him to stay badly ... but I want Boras to represent me at my next work appraisal if he gets him that kind of $$$$

      Posted by Bob November 6, 08 01:43 PM
    1. I love the Red Sox!

      Posted by Hortie November 6, 08 01:46 PM
    1. Its "Bengie" Molina, not "Benji.

      Posted by Fred mertz November 6, 08 02:06 PM
    1. Please, it's not "Boras is looking for Jorge Posada (4 years, $52 million) money," - it's "Boras SAYS HE is looking for Jorge Posada (4 years, $52 million) money," You're a veteran reporter, not one of the Globe's sports children, for G's sake.

      Posted by OCB November 6, 08 02:09 PM
    1. I'm available to coach first. DougB

      Posted by Doug Berlin November 6, 08 02:28 PM
    1. Get Lowe - he was reliable and everyone liked him.

      Posted by pat November 6, 08 02:47 PM
    1. I love Jason Varitek but he is not worth 52.4 million or whatever. I wish all the Gm's would just wake up and boycott what Boras is trying to do. He is selling a guy with leadership skills and thats it. Are the GM's really that dumb? Sign the guy for one year to contact with incentatives. He doesnt need to prove his leadership skills he needs to prove that he can hit and play better defense. Jason I love you man but if you get that kind of money its a shame.

      Posted by Darron November 6, 08 04:19 PM
    1. The Sox will need to "think big" beyond a retread veteran starting pitcher and will need a slugging infielder to compete next year. Simply put the Sox need to make a big splash in the free agent market.

      Posted by jimdaytona November 6, 08 04:27 PM
    1. Nomar for utility infielder!!!!! (at the ML minimum salary)

      Posted by Boomer5 November 6, 08 04:34 PM
    1. Sign Mark Texeira, then 3-way trade: trade Lowell or Julio Lugo to Detroit, Nate Robertson or Dontrelle Willis from Detroit to Texas, Teagarden or Saltalamacchia from Texas to Red Sox.

      Posted by Dan November 6, 08 05:30 PM
    1. Then Mr. Cafardo woke up. There is NO market for Lugo. Yes, lots of teams are looking for short stops - what you forgot to mention in your dream land article - is that there are A LOT of good short stops available, and cheaper than Lugo - or higher priced ones with better talent. I love the idea that we can simply trade away our scrap heap for all-stars, Its fine to hope, but lets be a tad more realistic. I love it when writers say a certain players name "has been mentioned", or that there is "interest" in a player or that "sources" tell you. The only people in red sox nation that think the sox are in the running for Texiera, are the Boston sports writers, not management, not the player, not his agent, not his team, just you guys. While I appreciate you for trying to create a Market for Lugo - no one is buying it. Our best chance to move Lugo is to make someone take him and throw in Coco for free - like the Marlins did with Lowell, when we wanted Beckett.

      Posted by John Panzer November 6, 08 06:33 PM
    1. You're crazy Dan, No way texas gives up a young catcher with upside for one of those clowns (Willis or Robertson). They'll be demanding either young pitchers w/ high upside (Bowden, Masterson, and/or Lester ) or a package of a position player and at least a mid level pitching prospect (something like Lowrie/Ellsbury and Bucholz). Catching prospects are few and far between.

      Posted by Will November 6, 08 06:37 PM
    1. Posada wasn't worth that contract, and neither would be Varitek. He's going to make a lot of money either way, but he should be paid what he will be worth, and not what he has been worth.
      I think a base contract of 8 mil plus incentives (for things like staff ERA, OPS and games played) is a respectful way to go.

      Posted by Jeromy November 6, 08 07:07 PM
    1. I think that Texiera is the key to the Sox future. I am sure they can move Lowell and get at least a great young prospect. This frees up $13M that they could use to bring Lowe back. He would be the best #4 man in baseball and the kids would have another year to develop. I also think that Varitek is long gone if he thinks that he can get half of what Posada got. My last thought that would be a great boost for the pitching staff would be to have Beckett get in shape this winter.

      Posted by john bowes November 6, 08 07:17 PM
    1. It would take a lot more then Willis or Robertson to Tex for Teagarden or Salty. A buchholz or Bowden.

      Posted by Kevin November 6, 08 07:23 PM
    1. Texas has made some bad decisions but did you realy think they are going to give up (Saltalmacchia) they guy they got for Mark Texeira for Julio Lugo.. Give me a break!

      Posted by John November 6, 08 07:42 PM
    1. Lugo has got to go. He was a bust to begin with , and the fact that the sox way over paid for him is ridiculous. I say keep Lowell, because he's " The Man ", and every good player has had a significant injury or two sometime in hisbig league career.
      I hate to see Tek go, nut his agent is going to make it impossile to re sign him. Why should we iexpect anything less from Boras? After all he stuck his foot in his mouth with Stay Rod adn the $ 350 million dollar deal. Borras can't be trusted, and it's sad to see that Tek won't stay. It's all about money in sports anyway.

      Posted by Jason S. November 6, 08 08:22 PM
    1. What! Get rid of Timlin. Your joking! He adds excitement to those late inning defeats. I've already pulled my hair out from him so why get rid of him now?

      Posted by Mark November 6, 08 08:40 PM
    1. Wake up Dan...your dreaming buddy!! That is just silly...

      Posted by Matt November 6, 08 08:41 PM
    1. haha, that'd be real nice, but I don't think that's ever going to happen, no way Texas will trade one of those 2 for Robertson and Willis together let alone 1 for 1. To get one of those guys were gonna have to bite the bullet and get rid of a young pitcher...which hopefully we can make up for by signing the 22 year old Japanese pitcher

      Posted by pretzeller November 6, 08 08:42 PM
    1. Dan,

      Why would Texas ever give up Teagarden or Salty for Nate Robertson or Dontrelle Willis. Willis is owed $22 million over next two years, and Robertson is owed $18 million over next two years. They are both underachieving and highly overpayed. Your scenario makes no sense and would never happen

      Posted by Clayton November 6, 08 08:44 PM
    1. 1. Sign Texiera move Youk to 3b

      2. Once and for all fill the SS spot with someone who can play it for at least 3 years. If they believe in Jed so be it.

      3. Do what is best for Sox at catcher spot, I love 'Tek but that Boras # is crazy talk. One of Texas or Shoppach catchers works.

      4. Fill bench with a Cora Upgrade, maybe a Baldelli for OF, and a 1b/OF guy

      4. You never have enough SP I'd like 2 pitchers if it's the two Japaneese guys that works if it's 1 of them and a Free Agent that is fine too. How many arms they need also depends on what exactly they need to give up for the catchers. Or if they need to move to plan # 2 like Holliday if Big Tex goes some where else.

      5. Paps, MDC, Oki, Masterson,Lopez and add maybe 2 guys who can throw multi innings.

      After that Sox should be good to go.

      Posted by Bob November 6, 08 08:45 PM
    1. Ok. First of all...
      #1 A catcher
      #2 Mark Tex
      #3 Trade for Holliday then let the chips fall. See ya Mike Lowell...Julio...Tek and Bay. It was nice but we are the Red Sox and second best doesn't cut it.
      #4 A decent pitcher in the 4 hole. No slouch. A.J. Burnett anyone? Put the pedal to the metal Theo!

      Posted by beantown8 November 6, 08 08:50 PM
    1. Why in the world would Texas do that?

      Posted by airjer November 6, 08 09:34 PM
    1. Why in the world would Texas do that? Texas wants no part of either of those two pitchers. I don't know if any major league team would want them. They are awful.

      Posted by airjer November 6, 08 09:36 PM
    1. Coco&Lugo Buckcolzs to Texas for Micheal Young and one of there star catchers.

      Posted by Chris November 6, 08 09:41 PM
    1. In the second paragraph of No. 2, where Cafardo talks about Rafael Furcal and how hard it is to find shortstops, I think he meant to reference Lugo, not Crisp as he does right before he mentions Furcal.

      Posted by vermonte November 6, 08 09:50 PM
    1. Dan, why would the Rangers trade a great young catcher for Nate Robertson or Dontrelle Willis? You do realize that the Rangers are trying to win, right?

      Teagarden and Saltalamacchia are both worth a top pitching prospect individually. If Jon Daniels trades one of them for an expensive has-been like Robertson or Willis he should be fired, tarred, and feathered.

      Posted by Mike November 6, 08 09:56 PM
    1. wow Dan, Sox and Tigers will trade old/bad players for top prospects. Such a stupid proposal

      Posted by brian November 6, 08 09:58 PM
    1. No team would take Lowell or Lugo unless we ate their contract.... that means giving Lowell or Lugo to Texas for an average (at best) unproven major league catcher? don't think so...

      Posted by Adam November 6, 08 10:24 PM
    1. //In a bind, they could opt for a year or two of Pudge Rodriguez.//

      ::vomits::

      For heaven's sake, Tim Federowicz would be a better option.

      And Kahlil Greene? Please. The Sox have guys in Single and Double A who are better right now than Greene.
      dui

      Posted by duinne November 6, 08 10:25 PM
    1. That might be the dumbest proposal I have ever heard. Texas givesd up impossible to find young catching in exchange for a terrible two-year contract of Willis or Robertson??? Ludicrous

      Posted by Scott November 6, 08 10:27 PM
    1. Dan. would that be after we bought a dozen or so shots for the Ranger's GM?

      Posted by Hugh November 6, 08 10:31 PM
    1. You must be taking advantage of the new Ma. marijuana laws. Why would Texas take either of 2 washed up pitchers for their 2 high ceiling catching prospects?

      The sox need to get more offense out of ss, catcher or center field. did you notice how high Lowell rated as a 3rd baseman in the compensation ratings?

      Posted by JIMM November 6, 08 10:37 PM
    1. Texas is looking for young pitching prospects with potential. Why would they want such huge projects/disasters like a Nate Robertson or a Dontrelle Willis?

      To sum it up, the Red Sox are not willing to deal Julio Lugo for the two pitchers you listed straight up. Enough Said.

      Posted by Tucker November 6, 08 10:46 PM
    1. Why would any team, even the Rangers, take on dead wood like Robertson or Willis for Teagarden or Salty, esp when there's a sellers market for catchers? That's fantasy league nonsense.

      Posted by zoot November 6, 08 10:46 PM
    1. Time for DLowe to come on back home

      Posted by TmodelFord November 6, 08 10:49 PM
    1. Trade David Ortiz to make room for Lowell at DH. Get Texeira! The team needs to get younger or else they will go down the tubes like the Yankees! Lowell is not tradeable you dodo!

      Posted by Butch D November 6, 08 11:06 PM
    1. Whoa. Easy Theo...

      Posted by David November 6, 08 11:13 PM
    1. The rangers would never give up either of their young catchers for Willis or Robertson. Those guys will command a very quality prospect in return.

      Posted by Joe November 6, 08 11:17 PM
    1. why on earth would texas trade saltalamacchia or teagarden for robertson or willis?

      Posted by joey Teevens November 6, 08 11:22 PM
    1. Why would the Red Sox want anything to do with the corpse of Jason Varitek? Right now, you could bring in the back-up j.v. catcher from my old high school, and he would instantly improve the Red Sox. Get this straight: Varitek has no value. None. He should pay the Red Sox for the privilege of sitting on the bench next year.

      Posted by Steve November 7, 08 12:22 AM
    1. Hi Dan,

      Great idea! While we're at it, let's trade Devern Hansack to the Cardinals for Albert Pujols! Then we can trade whoever is left (between Lowell or Lugo) to Florida for Hanley Ramirez!

      AUGH!!! I'm so sick of "yahoo" trades!!! Thnk people!!! Do you really think Detroit is so stupid they'll take Lugo? Even if we pay all of his salary, they'll try to squeeze prospect or two out of us and Texas.

      Posted by Touvio November 7, 08 12:45 AM
    1. With Lowell having a serious hip injury I think it's still up in the air as to what kind of offensive player he will be next year. Perhaps he might even lose a step defensively. Since Youkilis can play any infield position I think Teixeira would be a great signing. It would help the Sox gain back power they lost with Manny and provide protection if Lowell doesn't bounce back. After all he is older now and it becomes more difficult to recover fully from injuries. Also, Derek Lowe would be an awesome addition to pitch behind Dice-K because he can eat up innings and provide much needed relief for the Red Sox bullpen.

      Posted by Jeffrey November 7, 08 01:45 AM
    1. Dan,
      Where do you figure Texas is going to give up one of the 2 top catching prospects in the league for a has been and a never was pitcher? I'm getting tired of reading rediculous trade scenerios on these comments.

      Posted by JB November 7, 08 02:22 AM
    1. Sox should def. pursue Teagarden, he's got great upside and power, has a great makeup and if the Braves gave up on Salty I'd want to stay away, they usually don't trade keepers (see Marte) Salty's D is also questionable.

      Posted by shippy November 7, 08 02:28 AM
    1. you really think the Rangers would accept Willis' 22.00 ERA for one of those catchers? Try Michael Bowden......

      Posted by jay November 7, 08 03:24 AM
    1. What bleeping idiot thinks we can get Teagarden or Salty for Lugo?

      Posted by Tom A. November 7, 08 03:43 AM
    1. Why would anyone want another Boras client?!?! I don't want Teixeria in Boston.

      As for Lowell, geez - the guy has been amazing. Let his hip heal then judge whether or not he can play anymore. I agree Lugo should go, he hasn't been great. I never thought he would be either.

      And I wouldn't trade Crisp either, he is a great defender and does okay with the bat. He should bunt more, use his speed. I'd trade Ellsbury. If I ran the Red Sox, I'd do my best to not have Boras clients on the team. If a player hires him, it's all about the money and not about the team.

      Posted by David November 7, 08 07:56 AM
    1. I like the first comment, esp if the trade include Lugo. I also like the idea of getting Derek Lowe back, esp if his personal issues are behind him. Sorry about Tec, but there is no way I would go for a 4 year $52m contract. If he can commanc that kind of contract elsewhere he should go for it.

      Posted by Bob from NH November 7, 08 09:18 AM
    1. I like the idea of Jeff Clement. We definitely need Teixeira, he'll not cost us prospects. Move Crisp for equal value...Baldelli could replace him & has power (when healthy). Tek on our terms or Bengi Molina. Look at D Lowe, probably to rich for our taste.

      Posted by Bud Holmes November 7, 08 10:47 AM
    1. Oh whats wrong with that? Hmm...lets think value...Dontrelle, Lugo, Teagarden...which one doesn't belong? Get real

      Posted by Brian November 7, 08 12:55 PM
    1. Theo, place a bid on Peavy and/ or A.J. Burnett; Dennys Reyes, Derek Lowe and/ or Scott Olson and make a bid and/ or trade for Mark Texeira and/or Holliday. This is our Christmas wish for 2008. Diehardbostonfansince1969

      Posted by Mark A. DiBernardo November 9, 08 11:32 PM
    1. I seen Sara Palin nekkid!!!

      Posted by Fatguysleeping November 10, 08 01:09 PM
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