Francona on Ortiz
Red Sox manager Terry Francona had his weekly chat with WEEI's "Dale and Holley Show" this afternoon. Naturally, the brunt of the conversation concerned the struggles of David Ortiz and how Francona is handling them. Here are some of his comments:
Francona: "I talked to David after the fiasco in Anaheim and he was understandably down and we talked about us -- and again, it's easy for me to talk to David and I hope for him to talk to me because we've been together for a long time and I think there's some trust there -- and it was obvious he needed some time off, and probably not just a game. And the thing that I was worried about was that I was a little slow pulling the trigger, that if I had gotten him out of there a little earlier it might have helped. But we were facing some righties in Anaheim, I thought some pretty good matchups [for Ortiz] and I thought that might get him out of it, get him hot, a good place to hit. So we got to Seattle and I knew he wasn't going to play. I didn't necessarily make it known right away that he wouldn't play the whole series, but I didn't think I needed to, because you don't really want to give someone the competitive advantage. Saying that, it kind of went the way I thought it would. You know, the first day, it kind of looked like he hadn't slept a whole lot. His eyes were puffy . . . The second day, he was in the cage hitting all day, which was good, the third day, the same thing. In the ninth inning [that night], he came out and said, 'Hey, I'm ready,' which was what I'd been wanting to hear. Had we gotten to the next inning, we were going to have him hit for Rocco [Baldelli]. Unfortunately, we didn't get there."
On whether the break helped him:
Francona: "Yeah, I do . . . The timing maybe isn't perfect [Ortiz faced lefthander Brian Tallet last night and will face another lefty, Brett Cecil, tonight]. You give a guy a day off or two or three days off, you'd love to press a button and have him go 4 for 4. That's not necessarily going to happen, and it may not happen tonight. But I do think the time off was good for him."
On the factors Francona considers before moving a player in the batting order:
Francona: "Oh boy, there's probably . . . well, not a million things, but a lot of things. First and foremost is how can we be the best team. And I don't just mean be the best team tonight, but be the best team when this is all said and done. We [will] need David desperately before this is all said and done. I think as a manager you can really make mistakes by doing thing too quickly. Do I think I have all the answers? No . . . but until I know something is going to help, I want to give the players the benefit of the doubt, and again, this is a guy who has been one the best in baseball. He's going to get hot. How hot? Well, let's find out. And when it does happen, I don't want him hitting eighth. Again, we set this up [the lineup] for a reason, and we want to see this through. If it gets to the point where we have to make a change, I will certainly do that. And I've told David, David and I have had this talk, and that's not a problem. I'm probably the one hanging on to this, I want this to work where it is."
On what the downside would be to switching Ortiz and No. 6 hitter J.D. Drew in the batting order:
Francona: "Well, part of it is, hitting David sixth . . . what we need him to do is get hot. And you know how strongly David has felt about having protection in the middle of the order. If he chasing balls out of the zone in three-hole, how do you think it will be in the six-hole? J.D.'s been a guy who will take his walks -- that's why we've hit J.D. in the leadoff spot a number of times, because we value his on-base percentage. So there's a lot of things to think about. We get [Kevin Youkilis] back tonight. That's good. If we lengthen out that lineup, we have more opportunities to score. And the one thing I don't want David to do -- or any of our players -- is to look over their shoulder. I want them to feel like they're fearless. Again, I understand my responsibility, but I don't want them to feel like they're walking the gang plank either, [to feel like they're going to get] two at-bats before they're demoted, I want them to feel like they're fearless. We walk a line there, but I've been pretty honest with David, and he knows that, and I think he knows how we feel about this."
On why Francona believes Ortiz will get hot:
Francona: "Because players do. Even not-so-great players get hot. And David's been an elite player . . . he's not going to go all season hitting .207 with no home runs. When he gets hot, where's it take him? Well, let's find out. I want to live through that before we get too crazy here."
On the possibility that Ortiz has lost it:
Francona: "No, I don't feel that way. You can go back and go a long way, because I've done some research, and look at Yaz. He had some injuries, and he went, what, 56 games one year. It was a pretty good dry spell, and he had what, 10 years in the major leagues and everyone thought he was done. I mean, everyone thought [Dustin] Pedroia was done before he got started. I understand, I see what I'm seeing too, and it's not been real pretty all the time. But if I react too quickly, it's not in the best interests of our team."
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Ortiz is a bum. Send him to AA where maybe he can add some value.
This is why he's the manager and all of the talk radio yahoos out there are not.
I wish Tito was my dad.
I never noticed that Tito's glasses were rose colored.
" I mean, everyone thought [Dustin] Pedroia was done before he got started."
Just a terrible, terrible comparison, and if this is indicative of the quality of Tito's logic, he should not be making this personnel decision. The front office should.
Pedroia was a ROOKIE. Rookies struggle. Second-year men struggle. Ortiz is coming to the end of his career. See for reference: Mo Vaughn.
Yaz and Williams had off-years before the ends of their careers. But AGAIN, a very bad comparison with Ortiz. Injuries caused slumps in both cases, particularly with WIlliams. Ortiz says he is fine. It's not a carry-over from last year's injury that is affecting him. He simply has lost that fine edge that separates a great ballplayer from a mediocre one. And there is nothing in this world that will bring it back.
Tito simply does not want to make this call. Out of "kindness" and "respect" to Ortiz, he is leaving him out there to harm the team and embarrass himself. The "kind" and "respectful" thing Tito needs to do for Ortiz is to take him out, and let the fans remember him for what he was.
One last thing: We REALLY need to stop hearing how "the absence of Manny" is what's making the difference here. It's not. Period. I never heard a ballplayer use another ballplayer as an excuse for poor performance the way Ortiz and those who would defend him have. The excuse, and his willingness to use it, says something about Ortiz that is not at all complimentary.
Francona ......sounds like he's babying Ortiz. Or at least tip-toeing around a serious predicament surrounding what was his 'best' offensive player....at least to the press. I think we've seen The Best Papi has had to offer, but I think it's come to an end. The Performance in Los Angeles just wrapped it up in a big, red bow.
"he's not going to go all season hitting .207 with no home runs" He may hit .203 with 5 home runs before season's end.
Great analysis by Tito and unfortunately fans in general are all too quick at the switch. I want so bad for Ortiz to get out of this funk, but Francona is right, he will see even worse pitches to hit lower in the lineup which will just compound things. I am a pretty impatient person but I am going to trust the manager on this one since he's had a history of being right about these types of things. The general course of the season bears the truth rather than the first 2 months. Is he going to somehow get his average up to .315 with 30 homers and 100 rbi by the end of the year? Doubtful, but almost nothing is impossible. I am thinking his numbers at the end will look something like .275 20 homers and 75 rbi. I'll take that from a 3 hitter anytime, even if it isnt what we would normally expect or prefer from David. Keep the faith, and don't count him out just yet.
You guys crack me up (Globe, Boston.com) none of your writers are allowed on EEI but the second a guest says something on the radio you are quick to report it.
Tito: The eternal optimist... I hope to hell he is right
Well, Terry, if his pitch recognition is poor in the three-hole and would be worse in the six-hole then you may as well slide him down in the order. His mechanics are shot and his pitch recognition is atrocious. Might as well have him flailing in a less important spot. I can't recall seeing a hitter get in as many favorable counts only to swing themselves into an out than the current version of David Ortiz. They really can't go much further with an automatic out in the most important slot in the line-up.
You know, I agree with Franconia and this is why I love him as a manager. he's a great cushion between the fan base/press and the players. Ortiz is clearly not what he once was, however you need to let this playout a while longer....probably at least another 20 games or so, to see if he can be productive. If not, then they're going to have to do something(send him to the minors to "rehab", etc). Dropping him in the lineup is not going to do anything accept to put a .210 hitter in the 6 hole.
Don't forget one year Jeter had a manmouth slump that lasted almost until the All-Star break and he ended up hitting close to .300.
Anyone who is not supporting Ortiz is not a Red Sox fan. If you do not support Ortiz then you have no idea what it means to be a Red Sox fan. Get off the five year band wagon now. Real Red Sox fans don't need you around.
Badman
Anyone who is not supporting Ortiz is not a Red Sox fan. If you do not support Ortiz then you have no idea what it means to be a Red Sox fan. Get off the five year band wagon now. Real Red Sox fans don't need you around.
Badman
No , Francoma, you idiot he IS going to hit under his weight for the season. How many more games will you let him cost the Sox before you wake up and move him down in the order or get him out of the lineup.
I love Papi, and I believe in him, in Tito, and in the Red Sox. Hang in there Big Papi, and just know that we're all rooting for you! We Believe!!
Tito is drama free as usual, a valuable quality rarely seen in Beantown (my town). Remember the heat he took for sticking with Pedroia in his rough start? You don't dump a stand-up guy like David when you're playing well (96 win pace) with Youk out and several of your best starters in a bad patch. If we were under .500 in July I'd worry. Until then I'll leave the Chicken Little act to dittoheads and nutcases like Glenn Beck and Cheney. Its May - sit back and smell the lemonade.
Hey Papi, get BACK on the juice. HA HA I luv it greatest clutch hitter in Red Sux history. Yeah right, how old is he ? What 37 slow bat, bad eyes, and you pay him another year. 318 players included 6 pitchers have gone DEEP. Not Papi. Uh, no the yankees don't want him either lol.
At what point, Terry, do you face reality?
Tito sounds like a politician sticking to his story even when all the evidence is against him " We did not steal the pension funds that is derivatives" " Trillions are not missing from the federal reserve, those were corporate loans" . My masseuse/hypnotherapist told me the definition of lunacy is when you do the same things over and over and expect different results.Keep electing those criminals - keep swinging at those pitches in the dirt.
has anyone ever thought about a really good eye exam for big pap? i can remeber several big league players who have benefitted greatly from such an examination.
Francona is as dumb as he looks
We should have faith to David, he need our support & get through this hard time, everyone has up & down, this is life. We should appreicated what he did for boston, we should support & encourage him to get through this, we are Boston red sox nation, we are family, special David contribute a lot before, people has to think how we got 2 world series without David. David need postive support, not discouraged that he is done, finished, or stink.
Why doesn't someone state the obvious? Since steroids are being watched so closely, Ortiz's numbers have steadily declined.
Tito knows what's best. I'm cool with his handling of the situation.
for now, anyway.
Puhleez Beantowners - let's take a collective chill pill and leave the Chicken Little act to that great retro band, Cheney and the Dittoheads. The season is young, the Sox are winning while missing some key parts, and we've heard this song before. Do you remember recent crises de fois over Tek, Lowell and Wake? I'll worry if we're playing bad ball in June; no drama Francona has been right more often than his critics.
Please be right Tito...Please be right Tito...Please be right Tito...
Puhleez Beantowners - let's take a collective chill pill and leave the Chicken Little act to that great retro band, Cheney and the Dittoheads. The season is young, the Sox are winning while missing some key parts, and we've heard this song before. Do you remember recent crises de fois over Tek, Lowell and Wake? I'll worry if we're playing bad ball in June; no drama Francona has been right more often than his critics.
"Anyone who is not supporting Ortiz is not a Red Sox fan. If you do not support Ortiz then you have no idea what it means to be a Red Sox fan. Get off the five year band wagon now. Real Red Sox fans don't need you around.
Badman"
I agree wholeheartedly. This is one of those times where you can tell who the real fans are. And I'm sure there will be someone who replies to me saying "I've been a fan since 1969 you little punk!". Who cares, you suck at life.
Playing sports is such a mental thing. I'm not saying Papi had off the field issues but look at Jason Varitek. VTEK had a very tough time because of his off the field problems. Look at him this year, 7 homers including tonight! I think Papi had something personal that has effected his play! Once he gets things figured out he will be more relaxed and start mashing like he did tonight. I never thought he was done. Thank god Tito believed in him! I think it is very important for everyone to see the big picture! You don't just fall completely apart that abruptly! The mental aspect of life in general is to be focused,relaxed and confident. Papi is going to be just fine!!!
HOW ARE ALL YOU TITO/PAPI DETRACTORS FEELING THIS MORNING??? THIS MAY NOT BE THE BEGINNING OF GOOD THINGS FOR DAVID, BUT LET'S ALL BELIEVE!!!!!
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