Penny in demand

Save every last Penny. The man throws 98 mph and consistently provides quality starts. There is no reason to believe that Smoltz will be an upgrade. Why is this even a discussion?

JUST FOR PURE THEATRICAL VALUE, JOHN SMOLTZ "HAS" TO PITCH OVER THE WEEK-END AGAINST THE BRAVES. WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM MATCH UP WITH GUYS LIKE NATE McCLOUTH TO SHOW HE STILL HAS HIS STUFF.

Julio Lugo starting again today----and doing well. Guess he's hearing the noise snipping at his heels.....

With Green doing well, hope Lowrie isn't odd man out.

Daisuke should go on the DL to get his arm strength back to 100 percent.

And pitchers should be limited to 50 pitches in the WBC.

Give Penny a few more starts to get his value up. His numbers don't reflect how well he's throwing. Take a wait-and-see approach. An injury in late-June or early-July could alter team needs dramatically. And Papi may or may not be hitting. We don't know what we need to get back from dealing a Brad Penny.

Whoever is throwing out this trial balloon assumes thart John Smoltz has a guaranteed spot in Boston's starting rotation. This is far from fact. John may get a chance or two to show if he can still pitch as a starter for 6/7 innings but the liklihood is that he moves into the bullpen if he stays with the club. Right now, Masterson fills the long relief role. Were Smoltz to do the same it would give Terry options he does not currently have when a starter falters early in back to back games..

You're right in theory but it all depends on what another team will offer in return for him.

let us not forget Bucholtz

Brad Penny could not carry John Smoltz's gym bag.

Penny was a bargain this year and the sox were masterful in signing him for 5 million so they loose nothing by trading him and getting a quality player in return as he will look for a multi year deal next season for alot more money and probably wouldnt fit into Bostons long range plans, my suggestion is trade Penny and Hunter Jones or another comparable minor leauge player to Milaukee for shortstop J J Hardy

dont trade penny unless you could get blue chip catching or ss prospect. i almost dont want sox to trade anyone. keep em all and let smotlz come in for dicek or penny when they are ineffective

Bring up Buccoholz!

Put DM on disabled list, or release him!

I would hope that Dice-K agrees to a DL stint. That would buy the RS some time so they can see what Smoltz can give them. If he's OK, then we can trade Penny for some prospects. I think that Ortiz will be OK (not great, but maybe finish with 20 or so HRs) and I have my fingers crossed with Lowrie. I also like the idea of giving Beckett, Wakefield, and Lester a breather and having Bucholtz make a start or two for each of them, so we can see if he's really ready for the majors.

I think, given the Sox current situation, they have to keep Smoltz on the DL for one more rehab assignment. They have no reason to rush to a decision at all. They have the best record in the American League. Give Penny and Dice-K one more start each over the next week and then evaluate each of their performances. Smoltz didn't exactly tear it up in his last appearance at AAA. By that time, there should be a better picture of what the teams needs are and what pitchers would be better suited for certain roles. We should know a little more about Lowrie by that point in time as well, so Penny might need to be dealt for a SS.

Also, with the upcoming homestand, the Sox should be able to determine whether or not Ortiz is legitimately going to turn it around offensively. So, that also may be another need that must be addressed. There are too many questions surrounding important pieces which remian to be answered. Personally, I think they should trade Penny (SS or future Catcher prospect), but only if the offer blows managment out of the water, and then put Dice-K on the DL to work out his problems and bring up Buchholz to give him the shot in the rotation he certainly has proved he deserves..

For those that believe that the Sox plan on using Smoltz in the starting rotation, look no further than an article on this website that reported Smoltz offering to go to the pen if needed and the SOX said, "no".

It should be clear that they want/expect Smoltz to be a viable member of the starting rotation. The vision was to use him in September and into October.

Yes. Penny has been a bright spot and a bargain at $5million/season. But remember, it is only for ONE YEAR. Penny would be a FA at season's end, so while we shouldn't give him away for a sack of baseballs simply to make room in the rotation for Smoltz/Bucholtz (or both), we can't be stubborn and demand top value in return if it's not offered.

So holding off for a "blue chip" catching prospect likely won't happen unless we package something else in addition to Penny.

Brad Penny's track record shows it would be wise to trade him soon. He is notorius for having a bad second half! Also this is the first time the AL has seen him on a consistant basis. On the other hand he could actually be motivated this year. I still say the safe bet would be to find a trade by mid July. that's usually when he starts to tank.

It's amazing to me how people think you can just "keep em all" until someone is ineffective. What do you do with the pitcher that's ineffective? What do you do if Daisuke turns things around and no one is ineffective? Does Smoltz ride the bench with no starts until someone gets hurt? What about Clay Bucholtz? The best thing to do would be to trade Brad Penny while his value is high. If anyone gets hurt, you still have Clay Bucholtz ready to start in the majors. With all due respect to Brad Penny, there's no guarantee that he maintains his effectiveness (though he probably will), and there's no one else to trade that makes nearly as much sense as Penny.

People are worried about Bucholtz and why? He's in the minors and he can stay there until and unless there's reason and room to bring him up. And a word about the talk we're hearing about dealing for Jack Wilson or J.J. Hardy. C'mon. Seen their stats lately? Wilson: 158 AB; 1 HR; 20 RBI; .259 BA; .280 OBP
Hardy: 203 AB: 5 HR: 25 RBI: .207 BA; .320 OBP
Green: 140 AB: 3 HR; 21 RBI; .286 BA; .336 OBP
Lugo: 90 AB: 1 HR; 7 RBI; .300 BA; .373 OBP
Better fielders, maybe, but they're not hitters I'd like to see in the lineup!

They should try to sign Penny to the club for a few years... then trade Bucholtz for a top SS prospect....b

Bite the bullet on dicek. He hasn't pitched a great game since we got him. He's a no control pitcher, and always will be.

Dodge, bob and weave. Find a way to keep them all. .. at least for a while. Don't make a trade for the sake of making a trade. There's nothing like insurance in this game, and Penney is blue-chip insurance. It would be foolhardy to trade him with some of the other starters raising question marks and with the possibility that Smlotz could falter or get reinjured.

WOW.

GREAT series of responses. My complements, gentlemen.

I particularly liked JR's approach ~ #4.

I'd like to see Dice K go back on the DL. That would be optimum. Some day, I hope to hear that his WBC Manager got shot in the face by an irate Red Sox fan, who subsequently + successfully copped Diplomatic Immunity.

In that scenario, I'd love to see Smoltz take the 4th spot in the Rotation, and let'er rip. That would enhance our Return on Penny by two means: First, we could, as JR suggests, enhance his perceived value by giving him time to work down his ERA, which does, indeed, not effectively reflect the quality of his recent performance...and Second, by easing the traffic up, we'd eliminate the ~ accurate ~ perception that we're under the gun to make a move...and can, instead, put the screws to anyone needing to make a move. Indeed, the dawning resurgence of Papi, combined with the solid play of Green at ShortStop, and, hopefully, the approaching return of Lowrie...would ALL conspire to GREATLY enhance our bargaining position in the eventual Penny trade, more so with each passing day! By holding off, rather than making an hasty move, our Return on Investment could be VERY nice, INDEED!

In other words: A Penny saved, is a Penny earned.

I'll just see my own way out...

Didn't Dice-K just come BACK from the DL??? The guy is washed up for the year. Tell him Sayonara for this year and we'll look forward to his service next year.

The key here is that Penny is likely gone after the season. Why not cash in now, for a SS or C prospect, even if the deal has to be sweetened for the right player? Makes the entire Penny investment very worthwhile.

The only risk is, Wakefield is an injury waiting to happen, Buccholz has proven nothing at the major league level and Smoltz hasn't returned successfully from his surgery yet.

Regarding Dice K...

I'd love to see him recommence his recovery from the WBC ~ DL, baby! ~ allowing us the time and leisure to enhance our bargaining position with Penny's services.

Failing that, I say dump him in the bullpen, where we let him rest that weary arm for a month or so, and bring Masterson back for a few turns. That would annoy the crap out'f me, but we can move forward a lot more effectively with a dead spot at the bottom of our bullpen, than with a dead spot in our Rotation.

Then, when it looks like he's rested and recovered, I'd switch him back.

Yes. I am DELIBERATELY excluding You Know Who from this phase of the solution, and there's a reason for it; a good one I think.

First off, we give our team an excellent chance to win every single day, instead of 4 out of 5 days, with everyone cringing every time Dice K's due to go.

Second, we don't mess around with anyone in AAA. Been there, done that. Give the lad a chance to develop so much confidence that he's ready to KILL somebody...and God knows: He's almost there!

Third, by giving Dice K a chance to heal ~ or, if health isn't his problem: to find his Game, once again! ~ and then come back and start a few, we would have the option, by the end of July, of either trading him for Value ~ because we DAMNED sure wouldn't get anything for him NOW, and would be forced to eat his bloated salary! ~ or moving Wakefield into the Bullpen.

Dumping Dice K NOW...would be a sheer DISASTER. Why not wait 6 weeks and let things evolve, probably, to our GREAT advantage?

And THEN...oh, yes, THEN...Bring up HIM.

Clay Buchholz.

Josh Beckett.
John Lester.
Clay Buchholz.
John Smoltz.

And the best bullpen in the WORLD.

My GOD.

With Papi appearing to finally be finding his way out'f the darkness...and with Green and the prospect of Lowrie ~ and perhaps even Lugo's healing from surgery? ~ finally assuaging the bleeding at ShortStop...and with Lester and Beckett starting to REALLY rock and roll...and with Buchholz steaming our way with a full head of steam...Do y'all realize we could be on the verge of ANNIHILATING the field???

This season could be HISTORIC. I'm talking CRAZY sheyott; 108 wins, and noise like that!

Come on, guys. Think harder. This one's easy.

Solution: The first 8 Man, 4 day rotation:

Day 1) Becket does 4-5 innings/Bucholtz 3-4 innings
Day 2) Lester does 4-5 innings/Masterson 3-4 innings
Day 3) Wakefiled does 4-5 innings/Bowden does 3-4 innings
Day 4) Penny does 4 innings/Smoltz does 4 innings

Tack on a relief corps of Paps/Delcarman/Ramirez/Saito/Okajima/Bard. Result: opposing teams never score another run. Sox win all 102 remaining regular season games and sweep their way through the playoffs. Done.

trade pitching to cws for alexei ramirez

I think everyone assumes that Smoltz (sp) is going to be lights out. What if he just stinks the place up night after night?

If Penny is traded, Smoltz stinks the place up, Matzusaka doesn't get it going and Wake goes in one of his tough stretches, where does that leave the team? That leaves us with Beckett and Lester and possibly Buchholz (no way to know what you get from him anymore).

This is a tough call. Look at plans A, B, C, D, E & F and see which is most feasible.

The Sox need a big bat not another C or SS. A pkg of Penny, MDC and a prospect or 2 would probably fetch the big bat. None of the 3 B's - Bard, Buckoltz, Bowden or Masterson should be part of any trade, they are the future and Penny and Smoltz are 1 yr rentals and MDC has been dreadful his last 2 appearances and hasn't progressed as he should have by now. He shows flashes of brilliance but is inconsistent. The Sox need a consistent #3 hitter not one w/warning track pwr like Ortiz struggling to hit .200. I have no confidence that Ortiz will suddenly start long balling again, he's a consummate pro and has served the Sox well but he's done.

Penny was this year's Colon at a much steeper price. We've already gotten out of him what we had hoped for. It is only logical to trde him this year before he becomes free. It will be interesting to see which suitors come to the Sox with their offers. It's a nice position to be in. I remember last year when pitching was abundant and then in the span of two weeks we were desperately thin. Neverthless, Penny will be gone by July 31st

Tejada for Penney or Hanley Ramirez for Penney and one of our three short stops?

Tejada for Penney or Hanley Ramirez for Penney and one of our three short stops?

I am with IRA. We need a big bat not a SS or a Catcher. The only thing that could be done different is to keep MDC and deal Saito and Ramirez. Both are new guys, they look good now and both have low payrolls. I guess I just like Delcarmen. Now we have room for Smoltz, we can keep Penny and we can bring up one of the young guns from AAA.

Here's the problem with Dice-K - HE CAN'T BE TRADED, IT'S IN HIS CONTRACT! The front office can try and put him on the DL and sent to extended spring training in FL but he has to agree to the rehab assignment. Dice-K also can't be sent to the minors. I say give Smoltz a couple of starts in Dice-K's rotation spot and let Penny keep firing away. You can see if you still need Smoltz or if you keep Penny

Go get Victor Martinez C Cle Indians and work out a rotation with him and Tek this year and next, and Tek is gone after next year or comes back after next year as the #2. This year he can DH some and play first some to let Ortiz, Youk and Lowell have a day off occasionally when Tek is catching.
As Far as the pitching "wealth" play it slowly and close to the vest and agree to a move only after you get bowled over by an offer. We have options to deal with it until then.

Because of the terms of the contract the Sox have with Dice-K they are in a bind. I don't believe he should remain in the starting rotation. If he doesn't want to be traded or put on the D.L. and will be unhappy in the bullpen then Epstein should release him. With Buchholz and Masterson progressing nicely at Pawtucket they really don't need to wait for him to come around if he ever does. To tell you the truth from watching him and reading about him I think Dice-K is a head case and will always be. Eventhough it will be painful for the Red Sox they should cut their loses with Matzusaka.
I also believe that the Sox don't have the luxuary of passing up a chance to add another big bat to their lineup in the hope that Big Papi will turn it around when there is a good possibility he never will. I fear that if the Sox stay with what they have and basically don't make any changes they won't make the playoffs.

Could Penny be a type-A free agent at the end of the year? If so, the package that you get for him would have to be better than the 2 draft picks you would recieve. Not sure if he would qualify as type-A however.

Trade Dice K, and Papi for a couple bats with some pop. The Red Sox needs more long ball threats.

Trade Penny & use a 6 man rotation including both Bucholz & Smoltz then see how things shake out.

Its tough to believe that Smoltz will fare better than Penny has so far their better off keeping him for now and see how Smoltz does in his first couple of starts then go from there CAPICHE

Penny needs to go! He was just showing off last week cause he knows he will be traded. Total cop-out!

i dont get it , were going to rely on two 42 year old down the arms, when we got brad penny who throws 97 mph and getting better as we speak and we got a guy in the minors who's stuff is just nasty, i would move smoltz and wakefield to the bull pen and throw buchholtz and penny. Then come October do what you want with smoltz

Hey Everyone,
Did anyone else find it interesting that the Pawsox game was rained out with little to no rain with Bucholz on the mound and when they announced the make up game for today Bucholz is no longer the starting pitcher and what they are saying is he is going to have another 4 days of rest. Something in the works with him perhaps going somewhere else or maybe someone else going out of town and him coming up to Boston? I just found this all very interesting but who knows, could be looking too much into it.

Roundabout -

Regarding 8 man 4 day rotation plus relief corps, that's 14 pitchers. That leaves 11 spots for position players and DH. Given the usual 9 starters (assuming Lowrie takes SS job) that leaves only 2 bench players. One has to be Kottaras. Therefore among the following: Kotsay, Green, Lugo, Baldelli, you can only keep one. Who is it?

TRADE MANNY DELCARMEN AND MAKE ROOM FOR SMOLTZ IN THE BULLPEN FOR NOW. IF THIS WORKS GREAT IF NOT TRY THE DICE MAN IN THE PEN AND START SMOLTZ. I FEEL MANNY IS UP AND DOWN BUT NOT WORTH KEEPING. THIS WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE UP PENNY. THAN THERE IS BUCHOLTZ SITTING DOWN THERE PITCHING EXCELLENT HE NEEDS TO COME UP ALSO.
DON'T GO WITH A 6 MAN ROTATION THAT COULD CAUSE A DISASTER.

Rick, that has to be the silliest thing I have ever heard. You really think anyone would trade Hanley Ramirez for a BACKUP SS and 5TH STARTER?!?!

Trade Nick Green for A-ROD, or maybe some minor leaguer for ALber tPoo-Holes.. you fans are stupid, listen to what youthink they cn get... F-A-N-T-A-S-Y

The Sox won't be able to get anything better than a B- level prospect for Brad Penny right now. Penny would amount to nothing but a rental for any team interested in him. If the Sox offer to pay his whole salary, they may get a B level prospect, but nothing more.

For all of the talk of Ortiz not coming out of his slump, his numbers over his last 10 games are:
9 for 28 .321BA .500 OBP 1 2B 3 HR 5 BB 6 K 7 RBI

Look's to me like hes coming out of it. Go get the defense, our bats are starting to come around.

trade Dice-k....he cares more about the wbc than the team thats paying him an exorbitant amount of money...he's essentially thumbing his nose at them every time the wbc comes around...at least penny shows improvement in most of his outings....im guessing they will have a better read of this once smoltz pitches some

Trade Beckett & Lester for a solid shortstop...I hear Edgar Renteria is available.

Here's my 2 cents:
1. Is it possible to post or sell Matsuzaka back to Japan? He is what he is. He's engineered fro Japanese baseball. Last year's 18 wins were soft and most likely a fluke.
1a. Barring that happening; send him to extended spring training.
2. With Matsuzaka out of the picture, either long or short term, replace him with Smoltz and keep Penny. If you are determined to trade Penny, let him show his stuff for another 4-5 weeks, driving up his price. The RS are in the drivers seat here folks, they don't NEED to trade anyone. And if they let him walk at the end of the season, they'll gt some type of draft pick(s). Play from a position of power.

Penny is a first half pitcher throughout his career. His trade value will never be higher, and the lack of quality starting pitching on the trade market will only add to his value. So for all the "Penny is great" comments, please be serious and look at his career stats to see how poorly he is in the second half of the year historically.

throw matsuzaka and wakefield in the bullpen and promote bucholz and smoltz into the rotation...you can't go wrong with that.

Dice K to the pen. Penny continues to start to further enhance his trade value.
Smoltzieis given an opportunity to start w/ the caveat that if he falters he'll go into the pen tho work out whatever issues he has and bolster the long relief situation in the interim. Keep bucholz @ AAA to continue his evolution, masterson can spot start or dip into Pawtucket for someone other than Bucholz (when he comes up he'll be here to stay) to let the other prospects their know there not forgotten and might be called upon to comtribute too. give Papi more time to sink or swim and the SS position to sort itself out from the current roster.Get a big bat @trade-dline.

Trading Penny is the first move. His value is at its highest now. He is not going to give you more than 6 innings and will contribute to the innings of the bullpen.

What we get in return needs to be, in my opinion, a bat, off the bench. All the teams in the NL Central have a chance (sans Pittsburg, which traded away itsbest hitter). Penny is an NL pitcher. One of those teams, maybe Milwaukee, has a bat for sale, and maybe you posters can enlighten me as to who would be available.

Why Penny? trade Dice-K. He cares more about the WBC than the World Series. He doesn't take instruction or criticism. He isn't getting better. He is painful to watch. Send him some place else, and let another team worry about can this guy pitch past the sixth inning? Penny has pitched well, he cares, has heart and emotion (see his response to Girardi the other day). Why not hold on to him? Just because the Sox paid a high price to get Dice-K, doesn't mean they have to continue to compound that mistake by keeping him.

I agree with the guy who said that there's no reason to believe Smoltz will be an upgrade from Penny. I don't see it either. Consider that Smoltz:

- Is 42 years old
- Coming off surgery on his throwing arm
- Didn't have a "normal" offseason
- Is going from the NL to the AL
Yeah, I don't see it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see him being better than Penny.

Re "EdSox" #19: those are good stat points you make, but in the case of J.J. Hardy, here are some things to consider. Until he was sidelined in late May with lower back spasms, he was on a tear and showing himself to be the player everyone believed him capable of. Since he came back, he's been in a terrible slump, which may or may not relate to his injuury. But in his last two seasons, when he was playing FT, he averaged 25 HRs and nearly 80 RBIs a year, while hitting above .280. He's only 26 years old and should improve on those numbers. And he's got a strong arm. But as SSs go, he's big at 6'2". He looks more like a 1stB- or 3rdB man, than your typical SS. He's more the Cal Ripken model than the Ozzie Smith variety. I like the guy. Plus don't forget, before Lowrie got injured, the jury was still out as to whether he was the long term answer for our SS problem. Penny would probably opt to return to the NL when he becomes a free agent at the end of this season, so let's get the most for him before he does his usual second half slide

I have from a good source that the Sox will trade Penny, Lugo, and Michael Bowden to the Marlins after the series and re-acquire Hanley Ramirez. You heard it here first, folks. You will be able to read my contributions on a regular basis beginning next Wednesday.

Dump matsuzaka. Keep Penny.

Yes, let's take the guy who has the best record on the team as a starter(Wake), gives the bullpen more rest than anyone(Wake) and stick him in the bullpen. I think you CAN go wrong with that.

Clay Buchholz undoubtedly wins one prize right here - for the most often misspelled name! It is Clay BUCHHOLZ!!!!

Yeah, you OBVIOUSLY can't go wrong with a 42-year old who's recovering from surgery! Get real.

DM is currently a liability but the Sox are stuck with him. I agree with Sox management to field calls for Penny to try to get good trade value out of him while they can since he's a short-term solution. I'm a fan of Smoltz in the bullpen despite what management says but he should move to the rotation if he can prove he still has it. Bucholz is ready. He already showed the league what he can do when he thew that no-hitter.

Beckett
Lester
Bucholz
Smoltz or Wakefield (depending who's more efficient)
Matsuzaka

Trade Penny, put either Wakefield or Smoltz in the bullpen.

Dice-K was 18-3 last year. He has always been a nibbler and difficult to watch, but he is a tough guy and a winner. Lowrie will prove to be a nice switch hitter with a steady glove at ss. Penny & prospect for future star (3b,ss, or c)

Gotta wait and see what type of offers Penny brings while continuing to evaluate Green's play at SS. Lowrie should be healthy any time now. Seems like Lugo has regained some base pad speed recently and you can't deny he has provided some recent offensive spark. Strange as it seems for him to be productive after being a dud for so long, he has got to go (if someone will take him). No one knows if Smolz will actually be able to go when it comes down to it. His history leaves a lot of room for optimism, but time waits for no man and no one knows if his time of physical breakdown has arrived. Someone(s) should be designated for assignment temporarily while Smolz gets a couple of trips to the big league mound to see if he's still got it. Dealing Penny before getting more insight on the current state of Smolz isn't too smart from where I sit, particularly with how poor Dice K has looked.

Gotta disagree strongly with the comment about dealing Saito and/or Ramirez. These two are strong a pair of insurance plays as there are in the league. Both can give opponents fits in late relief (despite Ramirez' recent stumbles) and both can be contingency closers in a pinch. GREAT WORK getting both of these guys this year - don't even THINK about dealing either one...

There is nothing better than having too much pitching. Remember the Braves when they tore up the majors, they had the best pitching in baseball. We don't know yet how our pitching is going to fare in July. Still too early to decide who we should move. We need to allow Dice-K time to rehab.

#61 BostonBob.... yeah right. And I also heard from my source the Sox are trading Nick Green and a jock strap to the Cards for Pujols.....c'mon dude!

Get rid of Dice-K take whatever you can get hopefully money. He is painful to watch.

Can we include Theo Epstein and the gorillasuit with the lost Penney for a good shortstop like Jeter or A=Rod. He has writtrn too many bad contracts and acquired too many bad players who were traded away later.
Maybe the Globe needs to re-print the story when Dice-K was signed. It was a lot of money for the posting and the tyeamthat let him go got the better of the deal.
I saw Hanley Ramirez play for Portland against the New Britain Rock Cats and was not impressed with his glove or bat. Maybe that Florida weather agreed with him and I cannot figure out how he made the improvement to superstar.