Sox, Bay break off talks
TORONTO -- The Red Sox and All-Star left fielder Jason Bay failed to come to terms on a contract extension after the Red Sox made an "aggressive" offer about one week ago, general manager Theo Epstein said. The halting of negotiations means the Sox and Bay have probably ended any contract negotiations until after the season, when he is eligible to become a free agent.
"It's now clear that this round of talks won't result in a deal, either," Epstein said this afternoon. "As a result, we're going to table discussions again, which once again is a mutual decision, and pick them up most likely after the season."
Bay, whom the Red Sox traded for at last year's non-waiver deadline, is in the final year of a contract extension he signed with the Pittsburgh Pirates in November 2005. The Red Sox had negotiated with Bay during spring training, but the talks broke down when the sides could not agree on a fair-market value for outfielders.
But just because talks broke down for the second time this season doesn't mean Bay is eager to test free agency. Bay said that he'd still like to remain with the team, but didn't want the contract situation to become a distraction to anyone around the club.
"I'm not trying to set a precedent," Bay said. "Just looking for something that's fair. Whether that's changed over the last three months, you guys can determine that.
"It's the same situation we were in in spring training, where they were at a place where they were comfortable and we were at a place where we're comfortable and we didn't bridge the gap. That being said, doesn't really mean it's the end of the world, either. Just didn't really want it to become a distraction, not so much to myself but to the entire team. So we decided to kind of table that until later, which probably will be til the end of the season."
Bay and his agent, Joe Urbon, rejected the final contract offer made by the Sox about a week ago, and the talks finished up yesterday. Epstein said discussions had restarted in mid-June. He characterized them as amicable, and he believed the Sox had a chance to finalize a new extension before the All-Star break.
"I think we were really hopeful with the aggressive offer that we made that we could have reached a deal now," Epstein said. "But we have complete respect for Jason as a player and a person and for what free agency means to players. He's worked his whole career and had a really consistent career to get to a point where he can set his family up for life. We're not going to begrudge him. We're not going to hold anything against him because he makes a decision that he may want to wait and be able to consider every possible opportunity."
Asked if he was encouraged by how the talks went this time, Bay said, "Yeah. ... They have come a long way and, like I said, it's not really the end-all, be-all. Definitely more encouraged with the way things went this time, a lot more, actually, that hopefully we get something done."
Bay said the Sox had made "great strides and I appreciate it."
The sides can sit down again at the end of the season, after the World Series, before Bay would have to file for free agency. He's just looking for "something that makes sense for me," he said.
"I am in no position to say that I want to file for free agency and see what's out there," he said. "I'd still love to get something done here. I like it here. But that being said, we just basically at this point right now don't want it to be an ongoing distraction, like i said, for both of us coming to the field and answering contract questions.
"So we're kind of tabling it and there's a big window at the end of the year after the season. We can sit down and try to hammer something out again. But the way things have gone so far, like I said, very encouraged with that."
Epstein offered similar sentiments.
"I think he sat down with us in good faith. We approached him in good faith. And it just didn't work out at this point. We'll see what the future brings. We still want to retain him. I think he still wants to be here. It's just not going to happen now."
Adam Kilgore of the Globe staff contributed to this report.
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Type your comment here...ya right, he is long gone. theo knows what he wants from spring training. so if theo gave an aggressive offer and bay said no thanks than he is gone baby gone.
This guy is so not going anywhere!
The Sox are hedging that he drops off a little bit from that fast start to the season, and his agent is hedging that he will be in the MVP mix, and a gem in arbitration.
Either way, it will get done, and I think both sides will be happy about it.
Does Theo really think he can get a deal done in the off season, with the Yanks and Seattle entering the bidding?......He gave JD funny money, and he plays hard ball with a dominant contributor.......Theo is flirting with losing a real asset to the Sox.....Time for the fans to let Theo know how they feel about Jason...If he ends up with the Yanks next year, Theo will hear it for years....& years............
Oh, I hope they keep him with the Sox :/
Are you kidding me ! The best left fielder in the Eastern Division is going to become a FREE AGENT after this season? Where do you think he will wind up? We have a right fielder signed for many more years that can't hold his glove, as far as the front office is concerned wait til next year we will lose him, then what will we get.
Bay if he was really wanted to sign He would have by now But It sounds like he is being OVER GREEDY Bay will never find the fan support who has supported him from the first day he stepped on the field and Not surewhy he keeps putting this off if he wants to stay in Boston MAKE UP YOUR MIND BAY don't pull a Manny
I should think the Sox would split the difference and sign him as soon as possible. I'm sure Bay would consider that "fair."
Please sign this guy. He's the right age, properly tooled, and a player I enjoy rooting for...such a contrast from most of today's stars. Sign him guys. Getting Youks and Pedroia to ink up below market was great, but don't get carried away with past accomplishments. He's not a home grown. He wants and should get close to market......Sign him. Sign him. Sign him.
His stats since his torrid start have been pretty mediocre. But there aren't a lot of outfielders entering free agency. Tough call here.
I see no reason to be mad at Bay here. You can't blame the guy for wanting max-money. And this is the real world here; "fan support" is not going to be any free agent's prime concern. He's going to look at Drew in right field and say, "look what he's being paid." The Sox are going to look at the market last offseason (where outfielders did not make big bucks) and say, "look what they got paid." I can see where there's a log jam.
Sign him,management. Don't get cute just because Youks and Pedroia signed cheap. If Bay were playing for the Dodgers and facing an opt out option, you'd ring up his agent and collude a way to overpay him to wear red sox.
The guy plays hard every day, has all the tools, and has his prime years coming up. He is the type of player I want on the team I root for
Sign him,management. Don't get cute just because Youks and Pedroia signed cheap. If Bay were playing for the Dodgers and facing an opt out option, you'd ring up his agent and collude a way to overpay him to wear red sox.
The guy plays hard every day, has all the tools, and has his prime years coming up. He is the type of player I want on the team I root for
Sign him,management. Don't get cute just because Youks and Pedroia signed cheap. If Bay were playing for the Dodgers and facing an opt out option, you'd ring up his agent and collude a way to overpay him to wear red sox.
The guy plays hard every day, has all the tools, and has his prime years coming up. He is the type of player I want on the team I root for
Bay deserves AT LEAST the same as JD Drew is earning. Don't F this up Theo!!
I am really disappointed in Bay. It is clear that once again he is all about the money. Epstein made him a fair offer and has been trying to sign him, but he keeps rejecting whatever is offered. It seems clear that despite what he says he is waiting for NY to back up the Brinks truck to him after the season. This REALLY sucks for Boston fans. I thought Bay had more loyalty, like Lowell or Youk or Pedroia. I will never think the same way about Bay again after this. he really doesn't care about Boston. And also, notice how Theo carefully worded his repsonse- he said "will LIKELY resume talks after the season". If you analyze his comments he is basically conceding that Bay will be gone and there's nothing they can do about it. Sad.
How can players expect to be paid 2007 salaries when business is down and soooooo many people out of work and/or barely holding on. The Sox pay very well so I think this is Bay's issue. Yes, he is a very good player but he cannot hit breaking stuff and unless a pitcher makes a mistake he is rather average as a hitter. I'd like him to stay but he's not worth $20 million a year.....
Is Theo hedging his bets here hoping that Bay doesn't take the offer so that he and Larry can get their long time coveted prize of Matt Holliday who happens to be a free agent next year?
He's a Yankee in '10. Ain't no way he ain't a Yank next year. Unfortuantely.
Should have gotten it done. This is one time, with the free agency looking like it is in the off season, that the Sox, who are way under budget, should have taken the Yankee approach and gotten it done. I hope this doesn't come back to bite them. It almost assuredly will cost them money to sign him with competition instead of without.
Bay is an ingrate. If we did not get him out of Pittsburgh, hed be hittingin that big park with less support, hence far worse numbers, hence worth LESS as a free agent....Being the Sox offered $50 million for 5years and Bay said they made great strides & Theo said an aggresive offer the guess here its at least $60 65 million over 5 what does he want? Early last year he was a nobody by the way he is a poor defensive player who makes a few GREAT plays because of late jumps he never charges base hits to left runners score from secondat Fenway Manny even stopped them
If Bay really likes Boston that much, and Theo really made an agressive offer, he would have signed. Me thinks a lot of politics are being played, and Bay really wants to see what offers he gets in free agency from the yanikees, and seattle. I feel with the sox, the money was ok, but Bay may have wanted more years than the sox offered.
It's a bad hedge bet if they are hoping he drops off in the 2nd half. He was a consistant 30-100 guy in Pittsburg with no protection.
Bay has never had his big payday, how can you say he's being greedy. He deserves to be paid like an upper echelon player. If Theo is offering Youk money to him he SHOULD walk. Theo was willing to give an inconsistant injury risk 5 years at 14 million per. If I were Jason Bay I wouldn't accept less than that. If I were the Red Sox I'd pay it. The alternatives are pretty bad
And the difference between Bay and Manny is what? OK, maybe Bay won't pick on the travelling secretary or fake an injury. Beyond that, down deep, the same selfish type. OBVIOUSLY!! MOVE ON...
He is really pressing right now and may be feeling the pressure of a free agent year. As he approaches .250, maybe he'll just see things the Sox way. The Yankees will get whomever they really want and the Red Sox just can't worry about that. I would rather have the Yankees sign Bay in the offseason than wait another year and get Carl Crawford.
Bay isn't being greedy the sox are Being CHEAP. WHy penny pinch w this guy he doesn't want the $18 mill that he can definitely get from the yanks. Just give him his approx $15 mill and sign him.
WIth that said he will be signed after the season before he files for free agency. There's no way the sox want to lose him and they can easily sign him before he files for free agency. The sox would be making a huge mistake to let him walk and they rarely make huge mistakes
Let's see, they offered Texiera 170 million.
They lost Manny's 20 million, halfed Varitek's salary, and lost Schilling's 9 million.
They paid JD Drew 14 million a year.
And they're low balling Jason Bay?
Give me a break!
I agree with Rich. Theo has no qualms about handing over $14 M per year to an oft-injured underperforming JD Drew when there were no other bidders. Same thing with Julio Lugo ($9M per year with no other bidders) and look how that turned out.
JBay would have taken $14M a year (JD Drew money), and for a guy who has already performed for the Sox, after they threw $18M at Texeira in a "down economy", they needed to get this deal done.
You don't think the Yankees will come after him like they did with Damon and sweep him up? They will simply out bid the Sox. If they can deduct from Boston's offense and add to their needs, (and they badly need a left fielder) they will spend lots more money than Boston, and if Boston does resign him, they probably end up spending more than they would have if they signed him from the start.
Ridiculous. Best outfielder on the market and they are going to let him test free agency all for a difference of a couple milion a year or less in negotiations. $2 million to these guys is nothing. The guy plays hard every day.
Resign him before free agency or he will be in NY next year, guaranteed.
"How can players expect to be paid 2007 salaries when business is down"
Milton Bradley signed 3 years for $30 mil. He is an oft-injured a-hole loser. Rafael Furcal signed 3 for $30 and is oft-injured. 37 yr. old Raul Ibanez signed 3 for $32 mil. He isn't worth or asking $20 mil per but he is easily worth over $10 mil per and will split the difference as a free agent.
Hey Paula. Bay is OVERGREEDY? How come old cheapy won't pay any Sox players but has no problem giving JD $14M per year and Lugo $9M per when he apparently was the only bidder? Don't pull a Manny? Manny was a quitter, J Bay is a class guy.
the economy will continue to tank and unemployment will be 12+% a year from now - this is a major consideration and much different from the climate in which drew and lugo were signed. holliday is represented by boras and turned down 5 yrs. @ 84 million last yr. from colorado - can't imagine henry wants to bail out scotty. i'm afraid the days of dropping $500+ for a middle class family of 4 to go to the ballagme will become more rare and this will impact salaries going forward.
Some people are just stupid! He WILL NOT BE A yankee next year. He's coming back..........NO DOUBT. Theo is going for the 'old hometown discount' and Bay probably wants more than that and I don't blame him..anybody with his talent deserves market value. They will reach an amicable number and everyone will be happy
I would like to know the numbers and years offered. But, knowing current Sox managament they were probably very fair. Sounds to me like another F%&*ing Texeria. Good guy, plays hard...........but the almighty dollar stands in way. I want to know what offer was, Globe, do your job, find out. If he really wanted to stay, it would be done. Very disapointed in Jason, I know this is business, life, but this is bullshit ! He is gone./bye
This is how negotiations work. If the sides were 100% in agreement on value then they'd strike a deal tomorrow. But Bay could NOT have been hotter at the beginning of the season - now he's in a nosedive at the plate. I think this is a very shrewd move by Theo. Bay was 0 for 4 with three strikeouts AGAIN tonight. His performance has been plummeting for almost a month now. They won't get him cheap, but why pay him MVP dollars if he's going to finish the season batting .260 (assuming he does)?
Bay would be an idiot not to become a free agent. Anything the Sox offer now is just a prelude to the cash that will be dropped on him if he stays healthy and puts up his normal season numbers (not even maintain the ridiculous numbers he's put up so far). Hopefully he'll be happy enough with his time with the Sox that if the money's close between a couple of offers, he'll resign.
No way he is asking for $20MM, rob; and he isn't being greedy, Paula. Remember, Theo offered him $10MM per year in the Spring, a little more than the departed Julio Lugo. $10MM for a perpetual 280/.900 guy with annual 30/100/100 was not enough. He indicated something around JD Drew's salary, (which is $14MM), for 4 or 5 years, would keep him here and happy. I bet Theo offered him $3/36MM this round.
J.Bay's agent may not be Lucifer Boras, but Joe Urbon isn't going to let him sign for a lot less than he could get elsewhere. Also remember, Shawn, that Holliday is a Boras client and will require $18-20MM per year. No thanks. He is headed for the Yankee wind tunnel. Bay stays at Fenway with a 4 + 1 contract around $70MM total.
Let him go -- be a yankee we'll survive, 260 average why over pay.....
And starting in left field for the 2010 New York Yankees.....
Enough of Bay already. Mr quiet guy is only concerned about the bucks. Not as different from Manny as we hoped.
Kiss him good by Theo.
Can't hit anything on the outside paint. Marginal in left.
Tex blew by him in HR like he 's standing still.
Loved him till today..He has over played his hand
I like Jason Bay ... great bat & above avg LF ... I think they'll get it done but the guy is struggling right now. Anyone remember the 0-5, 5 strikeouts against Baltimore a few weeks ago? Since July 1 he's batting .206 with 16 strikeouts in 34 at bats, only 1 home run & 3 RBI's ... he's making $7.8M & looking for "something that makes sense for me". These guys looking to break the bank will eventually kill the game.
Mr. Bay may well be gone after this year, and rightly so. He is currently hitting .260 and is a lifetime .280 hitter. He has decent power but nothing to overpay for. If the Yankees want to overpay for him, that's okay; wouldn't be the first time. I'm sure Theo has a good feel for the market. Bay is probably stalling in hopes that paltry BA goes up a bit.
You blow 50 mill. just to talk to a pitcher ( who turns out to be average at best). You overpay JD. Youre willing to eat 9 mill. per yr. to let lugo walk. Now you have arguably the best left fielder in the american league, from character to proffesionalism, someone who came in under the shadow of Manny, in a pressure cooker of an environment, and has done nothing but become an Allstar, given you clutch hits and will be in the MVP race at years End. And you cant pay this guy. Give him 15 mill.per for 4-5. Whats the alternative, other then seeing him in Pinstripes.
I would like to echo Rob in comment no. 7. Bay sometimes - quite often, lately, looks totally overmatched at the plate. Takes waist-hight fastballs down the middle on 3-1 counts. What is this guy doing? I think he's getting bad advice from his agent. By wait, I must be wrong... an agent would NEVER be greedy... NOT!
I would like to echo Rob in comment no. 7. Bay sometimes - quite often, lately, looks totally overmatched at the plate. Takes waist-hight fastballs down the middle on 3-1 counts. What is this guy doing? I think he's getting bad advice from his agent. By wait, I must be wrong... an agent would NEVER be greedy... NOT!
I love that Bay is having it all now he is with the Sox. He is one who earned it going out there and doing the job. We love him in Pittsburgh. It was hard to see him go. Something you might not know. Bay took less to stay in Pittsburgh with his curent contract. It was seem as undervalued. One reason he did it was on a promise the BASTARD Nutting would spend more around him. I think this time he 1 Was burned with a home team discount. 2 Trying to make up for lost money. 3 Basking in the light of all MLB seeing him and what he could always do. 4 Not seeing the price is down for OF corners. Sorry but we belived in him first.
Bay seems like a nice guy, a nice guy who is overplaying his hand.
Boston is the perfect situation for him- short left field helps his offensive output and saves his creaky knees.
If they were at 10m the last round, maybe they were at 12m this round- the Globe scribes either weren't connected enough or weren't good enough to report what it really going on...
See ya Jason- you *had* a great opportiunity here... But you got greedy. Us fans don't really have time (or money, look at the economy buddy and catch a clue) for the likes of you anymore...
.. can we say... PRE MADONNA??? GOOOO YOUUUUUUUKK!!!!!!
I've always been a Theo supporter, but I must say I find it more than a little incredulous that the same management who threw money around trash can covers for people like Lugo, the oft-injured Drew and other questionable players, is now digging in its heels about a player and person of the stature of Jason Bay. GET THIS DONE and make it snappy! I can't believe Bay is someone the Sox have decided to go to war with. PAY THE MAN. And no garbage about changing markets and the ecoonomy please, as Sox continue to sell out every game at inflated prices. Do it and be done with it. Bay is worth it in every way.
First off, Rob, you're an idiot. You said "he's an average hitter." If by an average hitter, you mean someone that is on pace to hit 40 homers, then I guess he's average. What average hitter do you know that cranks out that many dingers? Sure, his batting average is a little down this year, but the pitching in the AL east has improved. Pedroia, Papi, and Youk aren't quite hitting as well as last year either. When your top rivals add Sabathia and Burnett, and you face that team nearly 20 times a year, numbers will decline a bit.
Bay and the Sox want to get the deal done, and Jason is hoping the economy improves between now and the offseason. I believe he sincerely wants to stay here, but he wants to get the maximum contract he can. He's over 30 now and this may be his last BIG contract and certainly the most important of his career.
The Yanks may make a bid for him to drive up the price on us, but they really are more interested in Jermaine Dye, Matt Holliday, and Vladimir Guerrero. Dye is hitting 40 points higher than Bay with the same power. They lose Damon and Matsui so they will have 26 million freed up to spend, but if Wang doesn't return to form, they'll have to get another starter and 2 outfielders. With all the empty seats in the Bronx, they may not have the capital to throw around until Wall Street picks up.
I cant believe that the Red Sox would blow this. Here they have a baseball player, who plays the game without an agenda, except to win. Bay will sign a 5 year extension before game 1 of the World Series at Fenway. Maybe game 3 at San Francisco. Im not sure .
If everyone on both sides is SOOO pleased with Bay being in Boston, this deal should just get done. Do it now, not later. GET IT DONE. Things can be as easy as folks want them to be. Just Do It!
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