Globe 10.0: What if the Yankees go after Halladay?
When Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi said he would listen to offers for ace Roy Halladay, it left Sox fans buzzing at the possibility of the All-Star righthander coming to Boston. After all, the Red Sox appear to be one of the few teams with the prospects and money to get it done.
"Let's slow down on the Halladay stuff," warned Massarotti in a Boston.com chat this afternoon. "The Jays will want a king's ransom for him and Theo has given no indication (ever) that he is willing to move a package of top prospects for an elite veteran. Look it up. The Red Sox LOVE their kids."
But in today's episode of Globe 10.0 (now on Facebook), columnists Bob Ryan and Dan Shaughnessy speculated that there was one thing that might bring the Red Sox into the hunt: keeping him away from the Yankees. While it's exciting to think about Halladay in the Red Sox rotation, conversely, it's scary to envision him in pinstripes.
"The Yankee threat is the thing that's very real here," Shaughnessy says in the Globe 10.0 clip embedded above. "It's the only reason for the Sox to get involved, to block the Yankees on this deal.
"If Roy Halladay goes to the Yankees, it alters the balance of power in the American League, perhaps to the point where the Yankees go to the World Series instead of the Red Sox. That's what this is about."
What do you think? Are you worried about Halladay going to the Yankees? Share your thoughts in the comments section of this blog entry.
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The Yankmees don't have any prospects to trade for him so unless they can pull off a three team trade, we have nothing to worry about.
Bob Ryan and Dan Shaughnessy are way off base. I think Massarotti is right on target. At what point in time during Theo's tenure with the Red Sox has the team gotten into a bidding war with the Yankees and overpaid for a player just to keep him off the Yanks? In fact, there are multiple times when the FO has claimed that that is precisely what they will not do. As usual, I expect the Sox to observe the Halladay situation and assess his value to the team. If the offers being given to the Blue Jays by other teams are easily trumped by whatever the Sox offer, perhaps we get seriously involved. But, that most likely will not be the case. Not to mention the fact that we have the deepest starting rotation in the league. The Sox need a bat, not Halladay.
Do the Yankees have the talent it would take to get Halladay? I am assuming the Jays would be looking for at least 3 stud prospects with at least 1 if not 2 of them being pitchers. Another question is Halladay willing to got NY? We can always hope he goes to the Phillies and they get knocked out in the NL playoffs.
That is depend on who the Yankees will give up. At the same time the Yankees do not have much talent prospects in their farm system except maybe they got two talent catching prospects. But we all know that Toronto must have at least two top pitchers either a talent prospect or a young star along with a top minor league hitter!! Yankees only have two young pitching stars, Joba and Hughes. Are the Yankees willing to give up both of them to get Halladay??? Yes Toronto could possible ask for Bowen, Bucholtz and Matterson. Dont think Boston isnt going to make this to happen. Maybe Boston can drive the Yankees's price such as to trade Joba, Hughes, Cano and maybe talent catcher prospect!!
When Burnett went to the Yankees, everyone said it would shift the balance of power in the AL east. When Sabathia went to the Yankees, everyone said it would shift the balance of power in the AL east. When Teixeira went to the Yankees, everyone said it would shift the balance of power in the AL east. When [whoever goes next] goes to the Yankees, everyone will say it will shift the balance of power in the AL east.
And yet here we are, where we always are these years: in first place, or within a couple of games. Blah blah blah.
I guess the Blue Jays would be looking for Chamberlain and Hughes and that would get the trade done. Too bad because it would make the Yankees favorites for the WS for the next few years. The Sox would have to give up Buchholz, Bowden, and another prospect to come cloes to a package like that and Epstein will never pull the trigger.
Of course, Halladay going to the Yankees, would be a cause for concern. And aren't we all in agreement, that they will indeed go after him? And probably get him.
Since the Yankees are losing outfiedlers at the end of the year, I can see them offering to take Wells off their hands. Wells and Halladay for Chamberlin, Hughes and Austin Jackson. This would hurt the Red Sox to the extent that even if they did add another bat, it wouldn't make any difference.
Doesn't matter who the yankees get to pitch at that launch pad. Halladay gave up 5 earned at yankee stadium over the weekend, with 3 hrs.
If the Yankees get Halladay, I will stop watching baseball.
I Don't feel the Yankees have enough prospects to get Halladay. Austin Jackson is the only player listed in top 100 prospects by Baseball America. Unless there willing to take on under performing contracts like Vernon Wells, the Yankees don't have the minor league talents that other teams could offer.
To me, Halladay is a difference maker and a real horse. He's kind of a throwback pitcher in the sense that even when he loses, he still gives you quality starts and doesn't tax your bullpen. I think that Gunslinger Theo definitely needs to make a serious run at him.(Don't you think that Theo is a bit jealous of Mr. Ainge right now) Think about it, who can the sox turn to for their number three starter right now? Tough to come up witha viable, solid third starter ..And,adding Halladay would allow Lester to be the best #3 pitcher in the game. And then next year we can add Holliday to our roster and the marketing dept could have fun with Halladay and Holliday on the same team.
Considering that the Blue Jays need serious prospects in return, likely more than 2, major-league ready types, and more, and the Yankees (despite the Yankee hype machine) likely don't have that unless they are willing to move Joba Chamberlain/Phil Hughes types (together I would imagine) this is another case of the curly headed girlfriend and the Ghost of Bob Ryan spinning the fear-monger wheel. Odds are Halladay stays where he is for now, and Ricciardi knows it.
you boston fans better cross your fingers big ol' hal doesnt come back to the buffet for one more helping.....hahaha
Hell ya hes going to the yankees bye bye phill hugues, joba, and austin jackson hello Roy and a world series!!!
who represents halladay? if it's boras, he's already playing for the yankees....
yankees with halladay, in the series and winning is a truely lovely thought.
why would JP be dumb enough to make his competition better?
No, Toronto won't send Halladay to a division rival
If any team wishes to get Roy Halladay, they are going to have to pick up Vernon Wells and his huge contract. That will be the going price, a good prospect or two but Wells must be included for a deal to go through.
Why not let him go to the Yankees? They already embarrass baseball with their enormous payroll, so let them add to it and make it even worse. If the Jays know anything, they'd EXPECT Joba in the deal, which isn't likely to happen.
I'd love to see Halladay with the Red Sox, but it won't happen. Theo would rather keep the prospects. Me, I'm tired of watching them grow. I'd rather harvest the crop now :)
It's not just keeping Halladay away from NYY that should motivate Sox brass here. With a healthy Halladay they become the clear favorite to win it all this year and if he remains (not sure of his contract status) you'd be the favorites next year too. Suddenly the Sox have the potential to be a TRUE DYNASTY in this decade and the Yanks and their fans are left pondering what once was. Surely the Yankees want to keep this guy away from Kenmore Square as badly as Theo and the boys want to keep him away from The Bronx!
The sox should not give away the top prospects to pry away Halladay from the yankees, it's Picardi's duty as a Worcester native to show his sox pride and deal him to anybody but the yankees.
I don't care what anyone else post's Halladay+Boras=$$$$$ and the yankees
dont think it is likley that either boston or the yankees will come up with halliday as toronto needs to build its future while not creating more gaps between them and the two frontrunner organizations.
So what's new ? Isn't that always the case ? Should we TRY to stop the $$$Yankees $$$ from continuing their ways of buying the pennant ? I say NO ! The $$$ Yankees $$$ won't change their ways and we need to stay with Theo's philosophy. Let's not try to match them $$$ Yankees $$$ dollar for dollar ! Only Obama can do that but NOT WITH HIS OWN MONEY !
The Yankees don't have the ammunition to get the trade done. I'm not scared in the least.
I bet Gene Michaels has already cut the deal with The Jays.I'm bettin the tailor has already made Halliday 5 pinstripe uniforms.THey only want to make Blowhard John Henry look nerdish and more stupid/if that's possible.Henry like to talk.actually 'twitter' about his money but when it comes to ballplayers and The Red Sox he won't spend it...Just talk about it....Want proof?Think who plays 1st base for The Yankees....Boros has already collected his 10%..And earned it.
Well, in my opinion, you can't exactly relate past bidding wars to this situation. Roy Halladay is an ace amongst aces. The market in Toronto, while vested in the much famed AL East, has to an extent (and I'm talking relative to his talent) hidden his ridiculous talent. He's tossed well over 200 innings the past 3 seasons and is on pace to eclipse it once again this year. He sports an awesomely low WHIP and inherently walks very few. Imagine a dominant and consistent control artist, spraying his blend of awesome fastballs and curveballs for top contender. Think about the impact Schilling has when we got him. Halladay is that type of pitcher, a maverick, an ace of spades for any contending team....hidden in toronto.
Here's some outside of the box thinking. Halladay to the Mariners. WHAT?!? It's common knowledge among Mariner fans that Erik Bedard is going to bolt after this season, and his first choice would be the Blue Jays. Now Bedard is making about half of what Halladay makes as well. The Mariners also have some prospects to get the deal done. This is all unlikely, but I'd like to see it done.
H'm,
Halladay, Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte in the palyoffs with Jaba doing the setup for Mariano? Scary thought and lights out for the Red Sox. I believe that the Steinbrenners want that so much that this is a no brainer for them. Remember we all though that they were done last winter when they picked up CC and AJ, that we had the open road to Teixeira and then swoop. Theo and Henry and Luciano are going to have to give this one some serious thought. You know these two teams may destroy each other given time and money.
Why not a 3 team trade? Here's the situation I'd love to see but will never happen:
Roy H. to the Marlins
Hanley R. to the Sox
Prospects from the Marlins and Sox to the Jays
We get a hitter. Roy H. is in the NL. Jays get what they need. Sox don't ship the entire ransom the Jays want on our own.
The Jays might be tempted by a package centered on Phil Hughes, Joba, and Austin Jackson for Halladay and Wells, but it would depend on who else is included in addition to the centerpieces. Austin Jackson isn't anywhere near the player Wells has been, and probably never will be. In any case, it's doubtful Jackson is major league-ready. If he's not ready to take over in CF for the Jays, who takes over for Wells? Hughes and Joba together don't equal one-half of one Roy Halladay. Both have had their problems this season and are not sure bets to reach their (admittedly high) potential. If they're going to take that kind of risk, the Yankees will have to sweeten the deal: Ricciardi will undoubtedly ask for Jesus Montero and/or Dellin Betances as well as a major league ready player (a bullpen piece, maybe: Coke? Aceves?) in addition to Hughes, Chamberlain and Jackson. I don't think the Yankees will go that far.
the Spankees farm system has been depleted for years YET, they STILL manage to pull off these kinds of mega trade deals.....makes no sense, but they do it.....even if Halladay does end up in pinstripes, it won't matter, because the curse of A-Rod is still in effect.....as long as that cheatin scumbag is a Yankee, they'll never make it ti the WS, so go ahead and bring in any All-Star you want, Pujols, Santana, Utley, doesn't matter they ain't going to the WS....long live the curse of Gay-Rod!
RIAN-- Daisuke Matsuzaka??? Come on guy.
Tried with El Duque?? The throwing the chair incident
halladay is worth someone like Joe Mauer or Justin Morneau AND a top prospect, not just a couple of "maybe they'll be ok someday" prospects.
The Red Sox problem is not pitching but hitting. Even if Halladay comes to the Sox, he will do nothing for run production. Infact I rather the Red Sox get Holliday over Halladay
Yes, he will make the Yankees that much more dangerous but unlike Sabathia, Halladay does not get better as the season goes on, so getting him is unlikely to push the Yanks over the top
Live from New York, a Yankee fan here. I don't think either the Yanks or the Sox will end up with Halladay. Hughes and Chamberlain may still be a year away, but particularly Hughes has looked brilliant (in relief). For the moment, they're young, easy on the payroll, and have some serious upside. Although, I believe that Joba is a head case on the staff. He has that certain look. (For instance, think about his whole thing with Youkilis. Very weird. Not just your traditional head hunting.) I also think there's no way Cano would be thrown into the trade mix. No one to replace him right at hand. Additionally, the Yankees will count on Alfredo Aceves to give them 60 or 70 pitches as a starter until, and if, Wang gets it together. As to the Sox, their staff is already tremendous. I'd look for both the Yanks and Sox to add bats, not pitching. Both teams should pray Halladay isn't dealt to the Angels. (Then there is the question of where Halladay himself will opt to go. Maybe he's staying put.)
Does anybody really think 1) that Ricciardi, who hails from Worcester, MA, would ever trade Halladay to the Yankees? or 2) that he would trade Halladay to any team within this division to haunt his own team for the next 5 years? He's too smart for that.
In Theo I trust.
This is a fruitless argument - don't waste your time debating. Ricciardi will not trade Halladay within his own division.
Let's pay him straight up, or do something, anything to get him here and not in NY. That would totally changed the tides as was pointed out in this article. Plus just imagine it, it'd be pure bliss adding him to the rotation. Think about it, Lesty, Beck, Penny, Smoltz, and ROY HALLIDAY. Give the young guys some more time in the minors to get up to the pro-level (i.e. Bucholz).
Nothing would be better than the Yankees making a hard push for Holliday and the Sox swooping in at the last minute and grabbing Holliday. It would be sweet revenge for the Teixeira loss.
If - and it's a big if - the Yanks would be willing to part with both Hughes and Chamberlain, I would be very surprised if the BJ's don't pull the trigger. Would taking Wells' bigass/underperforming contract make the whole thing stick? Probably so. Don't believe for 1 sec that the NYY don't have a couple of minor league aces up their sleeves. Cashman ain't the dumbest GM in baseball - simply the most misunderstood (even by his own bosses).
I'd hate to see Cano and/or Cervelli go north. Cano's already in big money territory, so that's probably why he'll stay put. Cervelli is another issue. Good with pitchers, not a bad bat, and he can throw out runners (unlike #20, who's arm went dead about 10 years ago). The jury's still out on Jackson, simply because he hasn't faced much major league pitching as of yet. NY already has two young outfilelders in Cabrera and Gardner, and once they clean out Damon and Matsui both will be able to play on the same day. Unless Wells comes south with his (used to be) fast legs and (used to be) excellent batting eye. I'd rather take a bucket of GatorAde in the deal ...
I'm not saying the Sox will or will not go after Halladay, but there are a few posters with very short memories. Theo has never gotten in a bidding war to keep a player from the Yankees? Really? Anyone remember the story of Theo breaking a chair in a hotel room after losing out on the Contreras sweepstakes? And who was doing the bidding for Pavano? And I wonder who Theo felt he was bidding against when he posted $51 million just to talk to Dice-K? It wasn't the Marlins. And based on most accounts, the Sox were the only team besides the Yankees to be bidding for Texiara. So don't kid yourselves that Theo will be sitting on the sidelines if the Yankees are involved.
Neither the Yankees NOR the Red Sox will get Halladay, unless the owner of the Jays is crazy. Facing a rotation of Halladay, Sabathia and Burnett....or Halladay, Beckett and Lester for AT LEAST the next year and a half would mean the Jays have NO chance to compete.
Halladay to the Yanks could very well happen. They have Matsui, Damon, Wang and others coming off the books next year. Those 3 alone equal more than 30 million. Sabathia, Burnett and Halladay would be pretty difficult to top, even for the Sox who are deep in pitching talent and youth in the farm. The Yanks made the mistake of not acquiring Santana. They will not make the same mistake again while George Sr. is living to acquire the best in the game. One more for George before he checks out!
There's nothing that the Yanks have that Toronto wants. Make Boston the last call on Toronto's speed dial when they have a deal i n place. If it ends up being with the Yanks. Sell the farm off and bring him to Boston.
Red Sox/Yankees: Whoever gets Halladay in the end wins this year's World Series and that's the bottom line!
I agree with mickey mouse - why would the Jays send him to a division rival? It doesn't make sense in the long term....
Always a good thing to smack down Boston pro sports-
Steelers in NFL and Penguins in NHL are excellent franchises
to humble the Bostonians.
Hopefully the Yankees with or without Halladay wil rise up again
and swat the Hub of arrogance.
the Yankees absolutely have the prospects to get Halladay. I don't think most Sox fans have any idea how many quality pitchers (and catchers) the Yankees have.
The Sox system is stocked quite well also. If either team wants Halladay bad enough, they can have him.
The question is when and how much will Halladay decline over the next 3-4 years (which is the minimum length of an extension Roy would require to waive his no-trade clause).
If the Yankees trade Chamberlain, Hughes, And Jackson for Halladay, then it's to the Red Sox' advantage. In the meantime, the Red Sox should express interest to drive up the price.
So how come Bob and Dan missed the most important parts of this?
1 - Toronto is not going to trade him to a division rival who will extend his contract and put the nails in their own coffin
2 - Sox don't need pitching, they need a bat, and they wont be willing to part with prospects
3 - Yankees don't have the prospects/players to trade, even with Joba and Hughes, Halladay is worth too much
4 - Ricardi is not going to pay the required $$$ resign him, and he will not want the Yanks to get him in free agency.
5 - Since Haladay wont be staying in Tornoto long term, Ricardi is likely to want to get value out of him pre free agency
Conclusion - Expect him to go to another division or league, to a team with several top prosepects, and a big payroll.
The question is whether the Sox want to gamble not signing Halladay to an extension. Is it worth 2 potential rings now to lose him after 2010? Sox will never outbid Yanks once he hits the open market. If they do land Halladay, Penny will get traded for a bat or if Lowell is OK then prospects.
Yankees need him. As far as the Yankees are concerned you can never rule them out. They do have good prospects and can still deal by the deadline. Their staff is still very overrated and they should be concerned about the second half. Lastly, Smoltz needs to be better than his last 3 starts. Lowell needs to get healthy for our lineup....
True that the baseball axiom is that you don't trade stars within your division but these kind of rules are not wrtten in cement folks. Think about it. The two clubs who cannot let their hated rival get Halliday are the Red Sox and the Yankees. Sooooooooooooo, where can Ricciardi gonna get the most in a trade. Now you got it, the Red Sox and the Yankees, who will do whatever they have to do to keep each other team from getting the guy. Hey, maybe Theo talks to Cashman and they decide, together, to bow out of this one. A gentlemens agreement so to speak. But don't totally discount a deal like this. After all for those of you who go way back, Jackie Robinson got traded to the Giants which was thought to be impossible for the fans back then. Remember, stranger things have happened.
The Sox need a bat, yes. But Halladay? He'd be welcome on any staff in the majors. Getting Halladay, while simultaneously keeping him from NYY, would pretty much free the Sox up to move Penny for a bat.
Halladay, Beckett, Lester, Smoltz/Dice (?), and Wakefield? That's a pretty bleeping nice rotation, you have to admit. Weak (currently) at the #4, but hopefully Smoltz comes on with time...
Probably won't happen unless the Yankees make a run, but it's interesting to think about.
you guys are all bosux fans...and all have one sided things to say...shhhhh
Halladay is not just another good pitcher, he is the BEST pitcher in baseball, and has been for a while now. What makes him the best is the fact that he automatically improves the rest of the rotation, by eating up innings no matter what. Think anti-Dice-K. The bullpen gets a day off when Halladay pitches. And of course, stuff-wise he is up there with CC, Johan, Beckett, etc. The combination of the above makes him the best. So in this case, Theo might deviate from his no-trade policy on prospects.
lets buy us another title, get the DOC !!!!
I think that Theo would be crazy not to take a good hard look at this opportunity. Roy Halladay is THE BEST pitcher in MLB right now - he's a proven winner and a work horse. Buckholtz, & Bowden aren't proven yet, they have great potential, but the last I heard, potential doesn't win the World Series. Giving up top prospects is never easy, but the way the Sox have been able to pick good players in the draft and build up their Minor league system, why not make a trade like this? You don't get an opportunity like this very often and what a chance to really stick it to the Yanks on this one. Go for it!
If they want him, they'll get him....don't forget Melky as a possible trade.....think he's a .300 hitter right now and cheap
If the Yankees want Halladay they will find a way to get Halladay. It is extremely important for that organization to return to the World Series. The Yankees need to justify the outrageous prices they charge at the new stadium. They no longer sell out each game and the prospects would be less than positive if they had anything less than a spectacular year. They have the players to trade and it could be worth their while to forfit the future for winning today. Don't forget that is how they were able to get back into contention when Steinbrenner took over ownership. I would be surprised if they weren't in negotiations with the Blue Jays.
as a baseball fan i would love to see the phillies get doc halladay, the jays wouldnt be stupid enough to trade him in the AL East.
Anyone who thinks the yankees do not have the talent to land Halladay is either ill informed or crazy. The yankees could part with a number of players such as: Chamberlain (overrated), jackson, Hughes, Melky, Monterio, Nunez, Kennedy, Josh Schmidt (tewearing up the minors), and Brackman, just to name a few. Anyone who thinks they don't have the depth is nuts. Will they do it, noone knows but I would rather have him than Bowden and Bucholz. This is a game of short term perfromance with the age of free agency. The reason you have a great system is to have the prospects to trade for legit perfromance.
He'll be a Phllie by the end of the week.
He'll be a Phllie by the end of the week.
Don't forget short-term vs. long-term also. A trade would likely involve renegotiating a longer term contract. Halladay is (I believe) a free agent in a year and a half, in which case the Yankees would easily come up with cash for him - so trading now might protect our interests for 4-5 years. Not a conclusive argument, but certainly one aspect of it...
Actually, a bidding war for Doc Halliday would make for better press than the boring 2009 AL East race. Baseball was the last sport whose regular season games actually mattered - and were somewhat entertaining. Not so much anymore ...
no way they trade him within the division....
What would be worse? Getting Halladay and winning another World Series, and having our farm system, the same system that brought us Youk, Ellsbury, Lester, Delcarmen, Pedroia, Masterson, and others for one or two years of prosperity. The guys we got down there could keep us in contention for the next decade. Who's to say this isn't an evil empire plot to deplete our minor league system. The Yankees are fishing, dont bite on their hook. This deal is not in the best interest of the Sox. If we need anything it is an extra bat. I hate to say it but Mike Lowell might not get better.
What would be worse? Getting Halladay and winning another World Series, and having our farm system, the same system that brought us Youk, Ellsbury, Lester, Delcarmen, Pedroia, Masterson, and others for one or two years of prosperity. The guys we got down there could keep us in contention for the next decade. Who's to say this isn't an evil empire plot to deplete our minor league system. The Yankees are fishing, dont bite on their hook. This deal is not in the best interest of the Sox. If we need anything it is an extra bat. I hate to say it but Mike Lowell might not get better.
Theo won't do it because the Sox won't go all out to blow the competition away and spend the dough on unproven guys like Sabathia, Bay, and Halliday. Theo only spends big on 'can't miss' additions like JD Drew, Lugo, or Renteria.
What would be worse? Getting Halladay and winning another World Series, and having our farm system, the same system that brought us Youk, Ellsbury, Lester, Delcarmen, Pedroia, Masterson, and others for one or two years of prosperity. The guys we got down there could keep us in contention for the next decade. Who's to say this isn't an evil empire plot to deplete our minor league system. The Yankees are fishing, dont bite on their hook. This deal is not in the best interest of the Sox. If we need anything it is an extra bat. I hate to say it but Mike Lowell might not get better.
What would be worse? Getting Halladay and winning another World Series, and having our farm system, the same system that brought us Youk, Ellsbury, Lester, Delcarmen, Pedroia, Masterson, and others for one or two years of prosperity. The guys we got down there could keep us in contention for the next decade. Who's to say this isn't an evil empire plot to deplete our minor league system. The Yankees are fishing, dont bite on their hook. This deal is not in the best interest of the Sox. If we need anything it is an extra bat. I hate to say it but Mike Lowell might not get better.
Anyone who thinks JP will trade the best pitcher in baseball to a divisional team is stupid...plain and simple.
The scuttlebutt in New York is Chamberlain and Cano for Halliday
LET'S GO YANKEES! Doc would sure look great in pinstripes!
The Yanks will be have a very hard time luring ANY high-profile pitchers to that Par-3 Ballpark in the Bronx. It's like Coors East. Why do you think the Phils are having such a hard time gettnig any quality pitchers? Bandbox for a stadium. No worries, Doc's not going to NY. He'll stay with the Jays and hit the market in two years.
Is this what it's come down to? One Globe reporter quoting "chat room" comments from another Globe reporter? Where's the story?
Great. Tell you what. Why don't we just set up two divisons in the AL? The Greed Divison with Boston and NY and then the Have Nots division for the rest. The arms race may be fascinating to anyone in Boston and NY, but for the vast majority of the rest of the nation? Disgusted. Jeolousy? No, just disgust.
"Cheatin A-Rod?" Does anyone is Boston have any doubts that Manny being Manny meant he was taking shots to the fanny all during those wonderful world series years?
I agree with that no matter what team goes after Halladay they will have to pay the "Kings ransom" for him. And of course the Yankees will try to go after Halladay and yes they will over pay to get him. A) because they know they blew it when they passed, wait, would not give up such "stars" as Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes, and whatever that other guys name is, to get Johan Santana a couple years ago and don't want to make the same mistake twice. B) because they can't build their own talent in their minor league system.
Halladay is a great pitcher, but has not been in the groove lately. Before I throw two or three elite prospect (Bowden, Bucholtz, etc.) at the Blue Jays to keep him from the Yankees, I would have to know how long is he signed for, what are the condition of the nagging injuries that have kept him from performing at peak efficiency recently, whether he would be willing to re-sign with the Red Soxs for something less than a king's ransom in the fairly near future, and what are chances of bringing Brad Penny back at a reasonable price for the next few years. I would proceed cautiously. .
These comments should be screened for stupidity. Almost every comment I read said that the Yankees don't have the talent to trade for Halladay. And I will say this about all of those people: YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SO PLEASE DON'T WASTE EVERYONE'S TIME WITH YOUR BASELESS OPINIONS. There isn't a person on this board who could give me the top 5 prospects in the Yankee system. The Yankees have plenty of talent in their system and on their big league club right now. And the odds are very small that they are even going to make an offer for Halladay. Cashman has already come out and said that. It's the same thing they did with Santana/Sabathia. Why trade talent and have to pay a boat load of cash for Santana when you can save the talent and just give the cash to Sabathia, who is just as good at this point - and younger. If the Yankees really want Halladay, they will wait until the winter of 2010 when he becomes a free agent. But please spare me the ignorant comments about the Yankee farm system when you don't know what you're talking about. That was something you heard on ESPN (or NESN South as I like to call it) about 5 or 6 years ago and regurgitated as if it was your own thought. The Yankees system is unbelievably deeper these days. Trust someone who knows.
Okay, I'm seeing a whole lot of-
"with a healthy Halladay, the Yankees would be the favorites to win it all"...
...really? Based on WHAT? Halladay's impressive post season numbers? Oh, that's right...he's NEVER pitched in the postseason. The Yankees, as currently constructed, are loaded with postseason busts at a number of key positions. How do we know that Hallady won't be another...oh, I don't know...Wang or Sabathia in the post season.
Seriously people, quit fearing the Yankees.
I don't see why the sox should stay on the sidelines under any circumstance. The only goal is to be WS bound. If the Yanks get him, we won't make it. And there are questions with the back half of the rotation. Why not give up Buckholz and Bard now? What exactly would we be waiting for? With Halladay there is no better rotation in baseball - for no net loss of pitching W's, and a rotation that has the potential to last for years once Dice-K gets back on track.
Toronto boy here, and this whole thing is a result of the passing of Ted Rogers, the former owner who DID want to win. BJ are gonna dump tons of salary and get ready to sell this club anyways, cuz they only draw when Roy pitches. Right on with Wells salary as well being included ( or maybe Rios - he is almost as bad), and no-one in TO really cares about the BJ anymore anyways. TO doesnt like minor-league teams, and almost everyone is fed up of just being a "feeder" organization. They can get all the "prospects" they want, but fact is when they let AJ go, you could almost hear the "F-U" let alone feel it. This team wont be around here much longer, 10 years at most.
Bottom line--regardless of whether or not the Blow Jays would trade Doc in the division--and they would if blown away---the Yankees have NOTHING close to what it would take to pry him away. All those years of "Fine drafting by GM Brian Cashman" --in quotes due to sarcasm, the Yanks are a bare cupboard in the minors.
the 2005, perhaps the greatest draft class ever--the Yanks Draft a High School Shortstop, C.J. Henry--who is SO bad, he's BACK in the Yanks system after being released by the Phillies who the yanks traded him to.
"Don't believe for 1 sec that the NYY don't have a couple of minor league aces up their sleeves."
how about if I believe for more then a second that they don't? Their farm system is ranked near the bottom in player development. A couple minor league aces up their sleeves? Guess that's why Sidney Ponson started 18 games for them last year, because they have a couple 'minor league aces' up their sleeves. Where are they hiding these guys? The Independent league?
'minor league aces'...please
Ummm, I think one reason we paid so much for Dice K was to keep him away from the Yankees. That didn't work out very well. Maybe Halladay would be a good choice, but I'm thinking we need Victor Matinez more. It's a conundrum. I hate to see Halladay go to the Yankees, but I will trust in Theo as always.
"the Spankees farm system has been depleted for years YET, they STILL manage to pull off these kinds of mega trade deals.....makes no sense, but they do it"
I don't know, maybe I'm watching a different version of baseball...
...what was the last major trade the Yankees pulled off during the season? By my count, it was Abreu, and that was what, 4 years ago? And that was nothing more then a glorified salary dump by the Phillies. Assuming large portions of money on bad contracts is the only way the Yankees make player moves during the season these days.
I think its a joke that my comment wasn't posted. There is a post on here calling ARod a s*umbag, yet my post doesn't get through. There is no profanity, just clear, intelligent, coherent thoughts. I guess that type of thinking is not recognized in Boston.
Fact........if the Yankees want Halliday, they will get him. If they don't get him, they didn''t want him. Case closed.
Halladay for Jeter?
Ahhh the Theoites are out in force seeming to once again think boy wonder can do no wrong.
Theo is an average to good GM who overvalues his farm system like no GM in baseball. Bucholtz, Bowden and Anderson shuld be getting their passports as we speak and the Red Sox should be getting ready for two more World Series parades, but that won' t happen because Bucholtz already is enshrined in the hall of fame in Theos mind.
How many proespects pan out? 1 in 8? Do whatever you have to to get the best pitcher in the AL
All free agents, no trades in your list, Joe. Agreed they vie against each other, but I don't think they do when there's something to lose (prospects).
Anyhow, this deal will have to center around a hot-shot starting pitcher, with another top level prospect. So bye-bye to Buchholtz, and one of: Masterson, Bowdoin, Tazawa off the top, just to get into the conversation. Lars Anderson would be another guy the Jays would want (.262/.356/.407 as a 21 yr. old in AA), and potentially last year's first round pick in Casey Kelly. So to pull this deal off, I see the Jays taking:
Buchholtz
Masterson
Anderson
(Some throw in guys)
However with that deal the Sox lose two of their top prospects (Buchholtz and Anderson) and a reliable bullpen guy that can also start games. Does it make the sox better this year and next? Sure. However with Buchholtz's ceiling as a starter (and who will probably be in the rotation next year) as well as Anderson's (to play first when Lowell leaves) I'm not sure it's the solution we're looking for.
But man, Doc Halladay in Sox uniform would look pretty sweet...
As a Yankee fan I would trade Wang and Chamberlin for Halladay
I think what everyone is missing widely on here (fans, mazz, Ryan and CarrotTop) is that this move on it's own merits would bring the Sox quite a few percentage points closer to another W.S. Forget about blocking others, and just get the guy.
You make this deal because this staff would be SICK. Not good, but great. So, stuff Masterson and Gen. Burkholz, and 2 more prospects and get this done.
If you don't want to enter the playoffs with Beckett, Halladay, Lester, Wakie and Smolz, with Penny and DiceK in reserve, then may God have mercy on your soul.
Let the Yankees have him! They will deal more prospects away for an aging veteran...the same reason they haven't won a WS in a while! It takes the perfect mold of veterans and young HOME GROWN talent to win it all. The Sox already have what it takes, without Halladay!
It is the job of a GM to do what is best for his team. Unless Riccardi feels his team is out of it for several seasons to come it is against his team's best interst to trade his ace to a division rival. Given the race in the AL East I would expect the Bue Jays to be buyers not sellers.
I have followed baseball for over 50 years and I have seen teams go for that one guy that assures the pennant many times and many times the acquisition made the team marginally better at best and the certain pennant remained elusive.
Long story short: Halladay stays north of the border.
The Sox need a bat! And they need a third baseman. Bucholtz, Anderson, Bailey and another pitching prospect for Adrien Gonzalez, with Youkilis moving to third.
Were I Theo, I'd be tempted. I'd be sorely tempted! The Sox are waist-deep in prospects right now with at least two who are probably ML-ready, B'holtz/Bowden. But they're still prospects, unproven at the ML level, and the minors are full of guys who are prospects but don't quite "make it". And Halliday is a proven commodity. Ya, I think you make this trade every time.
But I don't think it'll happen. I think if Halliday goes he won't go within the division. If Halliday ends up within the AL East the Jays still aren't any better off than they are now. Whomever they get from the Sox or the MFY won't make them any more than still the third best team in the AL East.
The Sox need a bat! And they need a third baseman. Bucholtz, Anderson, Bailey and another pitching prospect for Adrien Gonzalez, with Youkilis moving to third.
"If Roy Halladay goes to the Yankees, it alters the balance of power in the American League"
This has been thought through only halfway, if that. (In other words, it's meaningless hyperbole.) For the Yankees to get Halliday this year, they have to give up AT LEAST (and probably much more) Jaba and Hughes, or their equivalent. That means that, yeah, they'll have Halliday, but they will NOT have Jaba and Hughes (and more, or their equivalent). In plain talk: It's a wash, because the Yankees just don't have the depth in their farm system to fill the gap.
If Roy Halladay goes to the Yankees, it alters NOTHING - period.
This is another tough one to call. I don't see the Sox giving up their young talent in the kinds of numbers the Jays would want. Not to mention the money Halladay will want. But, letting the Skankees get him could be disasterous as far as a WS championship is concerned. Theo is on the hot seat once again........
I agree with most of the people here. The Yankees don't have enough in their farm system to put together a package to get Halladay. And the teams that do have the prospects will think long and hard before they ship a number of them off for one guy. I think Ricciardi is just testing the waters to see if he can really hold somebody up and re-stock his team.
Do you think a package of phil hughes Ian Kennedy Austin Jackson and milky cabrera could get it done for the yankees. By landing Halladay the yankees would secure the AL East
I like to know WHERE DO the yankees get all this money to spend. There drugs companys That is used for there players
why would someone trade one of the top 10 pitchers in baseball to one of their division rivals, it makes no sense i dont believe Halladay will be playing without a Jays Jersey i just think they are stirring the pot to see what they could get. Also the yankees dont have the prospects like we do and theo isnt going to part ways with the best pitching prospects in the mlb. If they move him it will be to someone like the Angels or the dodgers. with manny back they might trade pierre and some others for him but we will see it happens an ace gets thrown out there and nothing happens its the game
I'm from Toronto, and any Jay fan will tell you that anything less than a king's ransom for Halladay will be looked at as a bad trade. For the Jay's, the ideal thing to do would be to trade Wells and Rios and rebuild via free agency around Roy. However it's hard to envision that happening. More than likely Roy stays put in Toronto.
I hope Roy goes to the yankees so they can be unstoppable. Yankees all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You do not mention that the Yankees do not have the valuable chips (young, inexpensive talent) the Jays would insist on, and plenty of it. How could they possibly get Haliday? I don't think the Sox have to worry.
Red Sox Nation is so arrogant in thinking Halladay is coming here. He's not. You're more likely to see a trade between Boston and NY than this happening, unless the entire Toronto front office wants to be fired.
The way Papelbon picthes to close a game trade his sorry little a** with Lugo. Papelbon is going to hold out for big bucks anyway so let the Yankee fans sweat every ninth inning like we have been doing this year.......
the way Papelbon is picthing trade him with Lugo and Clay. Papelbon can make the Yankees sweat every ninth inning like we do. Tonight his is at his best, cant seem not to give up hits and runs.
"the yankees dont have the prospects"...yanks as of today rated #7 farm system with 3 top 50 prospects, and one top 5 prospect
With all the talent they have now, the Yanks are still nipping at our talented heels but Roy Halladay is an amazing pitcher and will make any team a zillion times better. It would suddenly become a VERY long second half of the season. I hope for our sake that we make an attempt to go for him if the Yanks show a strong push. Keeping prospects is never really their formula the last couple years, they just pay the big money for all the players who are good already and cut out the years of maturity and ability development. PLEASE make an effort Sox!
In order for the Sox to get Halladay, they would have to trade, Casey Kelly , Bucholtz, Bowden and possibly Jed Lowrie to get this deal done.
The only way the Yankee's will get the deal done is, picking up either Rios or Wells contract, Hughes and Joba. This isn't going to happen.
If NY gets Halladay, crown them World Series Champs.....it's that simple.
This is a no brainer if there is any chance of getting the DOC you don't even think about this one Theo has to go out and make Toronto an offer they can't refuse I don't care who they want Buckholz ,Bowden,Bard whoever or whatever they want this guy is by far the best pitcher in baseball he pitches 8 or nine innings every time he takes the ball we are lucky to get any of our starters to go 7 once in a while think about this rotation in a playoff series Beckett,Halladay,Lester this could give us 3 or 4 more championships no problem and you have no idea what we will get out of Buckholz,Bowden or any prospect for that matter you know what you will get from Halladay!!!! Besides Theo has a lot of makingup to us fans for his last several decisions he has made the likes of Lugo who he coveted so much then there is the J.D. Drew signing (hypochondriac) not to mention the Eric Gagne deal ,and Dice-k come on! Theo has to make this happen somehow someway and then pick up another bat and there will be no stopping us from a few more rings!!!
Forget the Yankees, what about the Rays getting him. His veteran leadership for that allready dominating young pitching staff might be what they need to win the world series this time, and they have the young talent to trade. I don't see Toronto trading within the division though.