Finding a good fit
The Red Sox have money to spend, players to trade, needs to fill. And just one year after they entered what proved to be one of the more tranquil offseasons in their history, now is a good time to remember the team's track record in the John Henry era.
They are not afraid to be bold.
In the last five offseasons, after all, the Red Sox have traded for Curt Schilling and Josh Beckett, signed premier free agents such as Keith Foulke and J.D. Drew, and blown away the competition in an international auction for Daisuke Matsuzaka. They nearly traded Manny Ramírez for Alex Rodriguez. They tried to trade for Tim Hudson and sign Brad Radke. They imported Edgar Renteria one year, exported him the next.
This year? Maybe more of the same, maybe nothing.
"I'd be surprised if [none] was the case," general manager Theo Epstein said Monday. "We have the ability to be selective in free agency. That could be the case again this year. We also might do something big. We have the ability to survey the field, play the offseason, and do what we think is right without having to do any one thing.
"We're at a point now where we're not desperate as an organization to improve in any one area. We can bring back the same group in any one area and be solid and have the bases covered. We can now pick our spots and look for areas to improve. Last offseason was great because we didn't have to be desperate. I think that's the same approach we'll take this year."
Maybe so. But do Sox officials really strike you as passive?
With that in mind, here's a look at the Sox' potential offseason plans, starting with:
The middle of the lineup
Epstein played it straight Monday, noting that the Sox finished second in the American League and third in the majors in runs. At the same time, the bottom of the lineup seemed terribly shallow during the postseason and there are significant questions about the ability of Mike Lowell (hip surgery) and David Ortiz (wrist) to regain the form that made them centerpieces in 2007.
Of the offensive talents available on the free agent market, two names stand out: Mark Teixeira and Manny Ramírez, the latter of whom is not an option for obvious reasons. Epstein said all the right things concerning Lowell and Ortiz, but the 28-year-old Teixeira is a switch-hitter with power from both sides of the plate who has averaged 35 home runs and 118 RBIs the past five seasons. Teixeira also is a two-time Gold Glove winner at first base who finished this year with more walks (97) than strikeouts (93), making him a perfect fit for the Sox in every way.
According to a club source, the Sox already have had internal discussions about Teixeira and would likely make room for him by trying to trade Lowell, who has two years and $25 million remaining on a three-year, $37.5 million contract he signed before last season. In that scenario, Kevin Youkilis would move to third base and Ortiz would probably drop in the lineup, giving the Sox a balanced lineup from Nos. 2 through 7 that would look something like this:
Dustin Pedroia (R), Teixeira (S), Youkilis (R), Ortiz (L), Jason Bay (R), J.D. Drew (L).
Depending on the length of the contract, Teixeira is likely to command $18 million-$20 million per season for the range of 6-8 years, and the competition could be stiff, with the Los Angeles Angels and New York Yankees among the potential suitors. Agent Scott Boras, who represents Teixeira, historically has shown willingness to take deals slightly shorter in length if his clients are young enough to make another venture into free agency.
If the Sox do not get Teixeira, their options for improving the lineup might be best served via trade, with the Colorado Rockies being a potential match. The Rockies need pitching and have both third baseman Garrett Atkins and outfielder Matt Holliday to deal, with Holliday being eligible for free agency at the end of 2009. Holliday, too, is represented by Boras, however, which makes it unlikely that he would sign with a new team before hitting the open market.
Because the Rockies have Ian Stewart ready to take over at third, Atkins seems like the team's preferred candidate to deal. (The Rockies would love to deal Todd Helton and move Atkins to first, but Helton's contract is prohibitive.) Atkins, too, could be a good fit for the Sox if they are serious about moving Lowell, but Teixeira is the most sensible option for a club that has shaved $40 million-$60 million off its payroll since the end of last season, much of it in the deal that sent Ramírez to the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Furthermore, if the Sox sign Teixeira, they can then focus on extending Bay's contract. Agent Joe Urbon said yesterday that he and the Sox have not discussed an extension for Bay, who is signed through 2009, and it could be that the Sox would need Bay in a big trade if they do not land Teixeira. But if the Sox can sign Teixeira and extend the 30-year-old Bay, they will have infused the middle of their lineup with run producers in their peak years.
That brings us to:
Catcher and the bottom of the order
Regardless of what happens with Jason Varitek, the Sox need to find a younger, long-term replacement who can provide them with at least average offensive output. The Texas Rangers have young catching to trade - the Sox tried to deal for Gerald Laird last winter - and the Cleveland Indians have a budding Kelly Shoppach, though Shoppach might be tough to pry away if and when Victor Martínez ends up at another position.
Given the scarcity of productive catchers, the Sox may be willing to settle for mediocrity, depending on what happens in the middle of the order. Whoever ends up catching will end up at the bottom of the order with Jed Lowrie, whom the Sox now regard as a legitimate candidate to take over for Julio Lugo. Finding a deal for Lugo (two years, $18 million remaining) will be near impossible unless the Sox eat roughly two-thirds of his remaining contract, but even then, the rewards will be minimal. The Sox are not likely to get much more than a midlevel prospect in return, limiting any impact on 2009.
Regardless, the Sox are not likely to make major offensive upgrades at catcher or shortstop next season, which only magnifies the importance of getting thicker in the middle of the lineup.
Pitching
The class of free agent pitchers is deep, with A.J. Burnett, Ben Sheets, Ryan Dempster, and Derek Lowe joining the big prize, CC Sabathia. The availability of Jake Peavy via trade further clouds the issue, though the Sox are not likely to be major players for any front-line starter.
For beginners, Sox officials generally have refrained from throwing silly dollars at starting pitchers on the open market, particularly ones in their 30s. (In Sabathia's case, Sox officials privately have expressed concerns about his long-term durability.) The Sox certainly could use an infusion of innings in their starting rotation, though it should be stressed that Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, and Daisuke Matsuzaka are all under 30 and under team control through at least 2010.
Could the Sox use a No. 4 or No. 5 starter, assuming they pick up the option on Tim Wakefield? Of course, though at that point they would get more bang for their buck by bringing along another young starter, be it Clay Buchholz or Justin Masterson or Michael Bowden. The ability of Epstein and his baseball operations staff to develop pitching should pay huge dividends this winter because the Sox can spend big dollars elsewhere and/or make trades to fortify their roster.
If the Sox are forced to give up pitching to acquire a hitter, they can then engage in discussions with any one of the aforementioned free agents.
As Epstein likes to say every winter, the precise developments are difficult to predict because there are a lot of moving parts.
This article also appeared in Thursday's Boston Globe.
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I agree that Texeira would be a logical target if we can move Lowell, but I also think that Boston WILL go after either Peavey or AJ Burnett. I don't think Theo is going to bank on Clay returning to form and taking that 4 spot in the rotation. Don't forget, some still have reservations about whether or not Beckett can return to form as well. If you add Peavey, you can drop Beckett down to the 3 spot in the rotation, allowing him to have more favorable match ups early in the season and in short playoff series late in the year. If you add Burnett, you can have a great 4th starter for 7 game series...something that was definitely missing this year. They need to sign Tek to a 1 year deal with an option, and make him report to Spring training a month early. I think he should stop his switch hitting and start batting exclusively from the right side of the plate! He may lose a little power, but his batting average and OPS will go up dramatically-not only that, but his presence in the clubhouse and behind the plate are irreplaceable. Give him a 1 year 10 million dollar deal with incentives that could boost his pay to 15 million. Make the incentives very attainable-and allow Boston not to have to commit 3 or 4 years. I know it's Tek's last shot at a long term deal (if you can call a 3 year deal long term) but the reality is, we need him and he needs Boston. He just got divorced and I'm sure he doesn't wanna move halfway across the country away from his family.
My guess is that they deal Jason Bay back to the National League, assuming Bay has an astute agent. Bay has several holes in his swing that superior American League pitching will exploit next year. The new "nation" power hitter will come from the NL, which Theo uses like a sort of "Quad A " talent pool, reminding me of the way the Yankees "resourced" the Kansas City Athletics decades back.
Why not move Youk to second, where the Sox played him some a few years ago, move Pedroia to short , Get Texeira for first, Youk at second, Pedroia at short and Lowell at third.
Look for another basically stand-pat offseason for the Sox. They have pitching depth built up in the minors, so they will wait on that instead of dropping big cash for FA's or giving up a truckload in trades.
Offensively, they have little choice but to wait and see with Ortiz and Lowell. Both are too old and too high salaried to move. The only flexibility will be with catcher and shortstop.
Tex has home in AZ and we will be outbid by Yanks or Angels- .. Cash could repace Tek and be better throwing out runners and hitting for 1/3 the cost unless we find long term solution in the off season..really is time to replace the 7-8 million Tek will get and stop carrying his bat..220 this year --255 last year...238 in 06 ----ENOUGH ALREADY..Signing Lowell last year was an emotional call..Unless you can trade him and REALLY be aggressive for Tex.. Lowell will be back...pitching staff is still VERY strong assumming Beckett is ok...Sox will extend Bay for sure...run at Tex and lose....gamble on Lowrie..Kotsay would be good keeper as OF and 1b and would play a lot but no power....Drew has automatic injury time ...is Papi past prime time ?...that is why Tex would be great...Lowell and Papi are age issues -- add Tek and wow -- 1/3 of lineup has questionable age and then add Drew injury time and 4 of 9 have playing time and health issues...that is the problem to solve because it can too easily lead to a bad season...also lowrie-tek-ells/coco have no real pop at the back of the order ---so age/health of others is more important.. -- PEN also needs help lost 17 or so leads after 7th !!!!!!!!!-- starting pitching is top line...could hold pat and if they all stay healthy Sox coul make another run IF THEY ALL STAY HEALTHY-- unlikely
Hey gee whiz, I always bragged to my out-of-state friends how the Sox never just went out and bought their players, paying market prices, like the Yankees!!
The Red Sox don't need another high priced free agent. With the possible loss of Varitek and Casey, they need a club house leader who puts up solid numbers and can contribute or a semi regular basis. Where do you put Teixeira? First base? You have Youk. Move Youk to third? You have Lowell. Outfield? I think not. DH? Um no. Just because you have the money to spend doesn't mean you throw it around like a drunken sailor. Thank God the media doesn't run the team. I have faith Theo will do the right thing.
Mark Teixeira at any cost....Sign on the Dotted-Line !!
I love Mike Lowell, always will....but reality says in 2 years he will be a retired 3B; I'm sorry. As beloved as Lowell is; make the "business move". Sign Teixeira for 1B, Youkilis to 3B where he played his whole life before "WE" made him a 1B; and ALSO trade Bay with 1-2 prospects for Holliday in LF.
Then, we are COOKING !!!!
What's the contract status of Paul Byrd for next season? It would seem that he may be a great fit for the back end of the rotation either in place of Wake or as a #5 starter with Wake as a #4, or even a long man/ spot starter. Byrd gives them some flexibility in how they decide to proceed with both Masterson whom he allows the Sox to keep in the bullpen and Bucholz whom they can bring along more slowly
Hitting is certainly the place to focus this offseason. I've been surprised how much clamoring there's been from fans for the Sox to go hard after a starter. Seems like we're in fairly good shape on the mound. Beckett-Lester-Dice looks good to me and spending big on pitchers, even younger ones is almost always a bigger risk then pumping the same cash into a power hitter. If they can move Lowell, Teixeira would be ideal. Can anyone imagine Youk and Tex at the corners? Scary thought indeed for our rivals. And not just for their bats. Talk about a defensively sound infield.
I think you are right on.Tough I think it's time to let cash take the raines behind the plate.If they can't trade Lugo bump him to platoon and back up 2B.Need Teixeira to give the line up the punch it lacks.I would not include Bay in any trade,may I say he reminds me of a Jeff Bagwell.He can hit 30+ homers a year ,and has heart,so to make a trade with him might be as bad a trade as Bagwell was.Keep Coco Backup.Lowell,Tex,Lugo,Timilin,wakefield.Thanks for the memories but this is a buisness and you have to go!!!!!Welcome Colon,Masterson,Delcarmen,Bucholtz,this is the future
Why won't the Redsox go after C.C. he's the best pitcher in baseball, he eats innings, he K's plenty and he WINS. Cy Young in 2007 and no major injuries in his past. They have the money, it would seem like a no brainer to at least go after him, plus keeps him away from the yankees who will absolutley make a push for him, He would give the Redsox 4 ligitimate Ace pitchers and have Wake as your 5 to pick you up about 10 wins and pitch close to 200 innings. Also have a staff that could go RLRLR in the playoffs, that would be the best pitching staff in baseball.
I think Texiera is a no brainer. We saw the lack of another bat as soon as Manny left. He is perfect for this team. They have the money, now do they have the guts?
To me getting Texeira is a must for the Sox. If they pass on Texeira the other power hitter available would be Holliday and after Holliday there is basically no body else. Look at free agents for 2010. They should go after Texeira and sign Lowe who could be the best #4 starter in baseball. Don't re-sign Wakefield. Too much inconsistency. If Texeira is signed, Bay should be extended and hit 5th behind Ortiz who should move to 4th spot in the lineup. Youkilis would hit 6th, his preferred spot.
No doubt that Teixeira would be a great addition to the Sox lineup but I have read on various blogs that he is aloof and not a great guy in the clubhouse. Is that true? Could that be the reason why a guy with his talent gets traded so often? Funny that a great switch-hitting, gold glove who can drive in runs gets moved so often in a young career. Francona has said that the second half of this year was the most fun he’s had managing a team (sans Manny). If the Angels and NYY are serious about signing Teixeira he could cost as high as165-170M over 7 years with a no-trade clause. I’d hate to see that kind of coin invested in a guy who could potentially mess up the chemistry of the team. What have you heard about his attitude?
I would: trade Ortiz and Crisp, while they have value, for a starting catcher and pitcher.
sign Varitek as a back-up
sign Texiera.
make Lowell the DH.
start Bucholtz
say thanks to Wake, Timlin and Lugo
keep Kotsay and Cora
Absolutely go after Laird,Ramon Hernandez or Benjie Molina.......For YEARS the Red Sox have LACKED a good backup catcher to LESSEN the load on Varitek,,,,Any one of those aforementioned would be a good fit!.Sign Varitek for a year or 2 and then he can catch say 100-110 games with the other catcher playing about 60 games..........please don;t bring Wakefield back,because in having Wakefield you need a catcher for his knuckler......its a 2 headed monster!.....I have had enough of Wake,he shouldnt have started the 4th game based on what Tampa did to him during the season...Another BAD decision by Francona who in my mind COST this team the right to go to the World Series!.The Red Sox HAVE the resources to trade for a good backup catcher,and that should be #1 on their list to do! for a quality backup catcher.....
Is it just me or did you write the same article every day this week? Let's just wait and see what they do. Obviously Papi isnt playing to potential, we want Teixera but need to do something with Lowell or Youk if we do, Kotsay's gone, Cora and The Mayor want back, and V-tek is the biggest "what do we do" because he is washed up but a leader... here's an article... Lets pay him to be on the coaching staff.
Is it me or did he miss the discussion on the bullpen?
Great article. Sox fans should feel pretty good about the prospects of landing a big bat (either Teixeria or Atkins) Jason Bay should stay in their plans as he is a good fielder, good hitter and good all around clubhouse guy to have. If they can land a Teixeira with the money to spend, WOW, 3/4/5 hitters with another quality starter will make them "better" than Tampa (although you have to like what Tampa has done throughout the years with minimal payroll. Hope they can pay and find a suitor for Lugo. This hot stove season will be colorful...
Sox should sign Teixera while keeping Lowell, Youk and Ortiz - Move Pedroia to short and Lowell to second base. Think of the depth that would create! Then they should use Buccholtz and Crisp as trade bait to try and land a Russell Martin or Geovany Soto. Just imagine the lineup: Ellsbury(L), Pedroia(R), Texeira(S), Youk(R), Ortiz(L), Bay(R), Drew(L), Lowell(R), Soto or Martin(R). That would be nasty! Pedroia could handle short - I'm sure Lowell could handle second. Keep Lowrie as your utility infielder for the next two years. Hey, it may be a long shot, but why not?
Dont trade Lowell! Get Teixeira for first, move Youk to 3rd, Lowell to DH, or Teixeira to DH. Trade Papi. He is one dimensional, cannot hit the other way, and will never be what he was for those two or three magical seasons. Bottom line.
As much as I love Lowell.. they need to trade him to get younger at the corner. Atkins I think would be the ideal addition. He wouldn't command much money and he carries a stick that is similar to Lowell's.
As for Pitching.... Keep the kids. Clay has shown potential, after all, he has thrown a no hitter in majors already. I think they should focus on the pen and move Masterson back to the rotation.
The Sox need to also pay attention to what teams in thier own division are doing, particulary the Yankeees. With CC Sabathia out on the market as well as Manny Ramirez that could be an option for the Yankees.
The Red Sox are set to play the Yankees in 17 games next year. If Manny puts on the pinstripes the Sox need to counteract that. Teixeria could just be the fit that they need. Not only would Mark bring his bat to Boston but also his ability run the bases and be a position player that they can count on day after day.
With two division rivalrys now, the ALEast is going to be the hottest in baseball.
Great article Tony, you really broke it down well for us.
I totally agree - the Sox were pretty anemic at times after Manny was traded, from a offensive standpoint. I agree that Teixeira would be a perfect fit for the Sox both in run scoring and defense. My only question about him is his fit in the clubhouse. I've heard a few things about him being a me-first-not-the-team jerk. But, I think the Sox' winning, experienced clubhouse could always rub off on him for the better. Plus, with Youk back at 3rd (his original position), the Sox would have 2-3 Gold Glovers manning the infield.
I think the Sox definitely need some bullpen help too - we were generally inconsistent all year there. Masterson was fantastic and will only get better. Someone to fill a role similar to Mike Timlin's in the past - a flexible veteran that you can plug into any inning.
And finally, we definitely need a #4 or #5 starter. I'd rather use one of those spots for a Bowden or Buchholz, but get at least one vet in there. I'm not sure Wake is reliable enough anymore - it's either feast or famine with him - he gives you a 4 hitter or gets pounded for 8 runs.
What do you think about signing Texeira and then trading Lowrie and a young pitcher to Florida for Hanley Ramirez? Our line-up would be incredible even with Varitek slumping.
I don't want anything to do with Atkins or Holliday. Atkins hit 21 HRs last year while playing 1/2 his games at Coors and had an OBP of .328 which was lower than Lugo's! Holliday is a Coors creation career away from Coors: .280, .348, .455 AVG, OBP and SLG.
Dump Lowell and sign Tex, especially for reasonable years (4?) works for me. But more than that and you end up in a similar situation to what you had with Manny.
Lowrie will improve offensively, and he is quite selective at the plate, but I do not think he has the range to play SS fulltime.
Until Ellsbury proves he can hit consistently and EARN a spot at the top of the order, Pedroia through Drew as you outlined above should be our 1-6, not 2-7. Just because you can steal a ton of bases doesn't mean you should be leading off, on base percentage means far more than base stealing ability.
In EVERY article that this guy writes, he's trading Jason Bay. He should be advocating extending Bay's contract, not trading him.
He's like a broken record.
Why not upgrade the offense at shortstop and look at JJ Hardy, who is reportedly on the market?
Another huge (in more ways than one) bat also reportedly on the market is Prince Fielder.
Brewers need pitching, among other things.
The Sox will not go after starting pitching at all. #4 will come from within, in concert with the long-term view (young pitching being healthier, cheaper, and good longer), and Wakefield will be #5. Buchholz will likely be #6 in the depth chart.
Epstein is playing good poker, but the naked lust for Teixeira is hard to hide. They will overpay for him if necessary. Like the Mirabelli-to-Cash move, catching will definitely change younger, even if there is no improvement in numbers. If Tek stays, Cash may lose out. The new catcher will work with the new pitcher (Bowden or whoever) in addition to Wake.
If the Sox Front Office has the Brass they'll attempt to sign Teixeira.Then they will sign one of the top tier Free agent Pitchers preferably Burnett. As far as Catchers go Josh Bard is a free Agent and so is Ramon Hernandez,I love what Tek gives the team Defensively but his offense stinks whoever told him he could hit from the left side of the plate flat out lied to him.If the Sox decide to trade for any players Peavy,Teargarden,Laird,Holliday,Saltalamacchia it'll cost a few prospects.If they sign Tex then one of the big guns will have to wave bye bye to Boston and that will be a tough decision who would you trade to make room for Tex? Youk? Papi? Mikey? it would have to one of them so be careful what you ask for!! 2009 will be a season of change with our team only getting better.
Tony, I agree with most of your observations. I don't agree with you on the catching situation. Cash showed us plenty over the course of the year and in the playoffs. His ability to throw out runners, tremendous defense, ability to handle pitchers and adequate offense make him part of the long term solution. As for shortstop, I see the Sox making a play to bring back Hanley Ramirez. We all know that the Marlins will trade him at some point. Offer them enough in prospects and they'll do it sooner rather than later... Lowery looks like a younger version of Cora to me.
Although Lugo strikes me as a nice guy, I'm hoping the JL era in Boston quietly comes to a close. Seems to me he could have increased value as a 2B in the National League; his VORP at that position in that league has got to be respectable. Mets need a legit 2B, for one.
Got no problem with Lowe as a 4th starter, a pitcher who likes Boston, has plenty of big game experience and has proven to be durable.
I'm also hoping that Boras, who apparently has a strong working relationship with the Sox, is willing to play ball, as it were, on Texiera. Maybe if the Sox hook up Varitek, he'll be a little more sporting with the likes of Tixiera. He's gotta love Boston, viz., Matsuzaka, Drew, Varitek.
You've covered things well, I think. Interesting scenarios! But, like every source you fail to address the Red Sox bullpen. Their depth is awful! Down the stretch their "Big Three" of Hideki, Masterson, and Papelbon performed great, but everyone else ranged from mediocre to terrible. They don't need to trade for a big name reliever, but their staff needs some revamping to provide more reliability unless they are going to go with young farm-hands which can be a steep learning curve for everyone.
A very good and precise amount of knowlegable logic went into this piece of writing and I believe the Red Sox will do "something" to improve their standing in the baseball community. I would miss Lowell and his competative heart but Teixeira would compliment the line-up and give all the starters their time to play in the Sun. They need to keep that fine assortment of bench players that have done so well. Lugo definately will be a challange to trade, but keep Coco. The pitching is sound and with proper use Varitek could last another two years. The Sox could try and get a back-up now in catching and invest their resources well in this position. In sum, Teixeira is the key ! Manny, who ? GOOD, he's gone.
My wonder is if Ortiz is just another Mo Vaughn...He's getting on, getting older and more than likely going to gain weight.The bottom line is,younger is better.Faster and faster bat speed.Pitchers,seemingly are getting faster and more deceiving....fast bats and legs are in demand......Baseball is becoming like basketball in it's own way.Players are like impalas now.Smaller,faster,leapers.There's no market for the big,big man,unless he's special...............baseball is turning to "Smallball",I think....Get on,move over,score via bunt,steal,harrass.I never thought I'd see the Sox go this way.Exciting!!
Add Tex, for sure, but don't trade Buchholz, he's going to be great.
I find it difficult to agree with you that the Sox will not be major players for a front line pitcher. I read more than once that the front office, especially Henry, absolutely
are obsessed in getting A.J. Burnett if he is available. Also, Derek Lowe is an innings eater who would like to return to Boston. If Beckett gave the Sox an average Game 2, they may have been in the World Series yesterday. His health has to be a major issue. I doubt they will gamble and assume he will be ok. It makes more sense that they wii sign a front line pitcher just in case Beckett or Dice-K(who also was on the DL), have health issues in the future,
if u have to trade lowell Im sure the SF Giants are a willing partner
I think we need to go after Texiera....even though we have a gold glove first baseman in Kevin Youkilis. Why? Because Youk can also be a gold glove at third base which is where he would go if the Red Sox landed Texiera which would result in Mike Lowell being traded. It would be interesting to see Lowe return if he does. And I think they should go after Peavy.
"Why not move Youk to second, where the Sox played him some a few years ago, move Pedroia to short , Get Texeira for first, Youk at second, Pedroia at short and Lowell at third."
Might not be the worst idea I've ever heard, Ralph, but it's up there.
SIGN TEIXEIRA at any cost!!!! We need a big offense boost. Without having Manny it was terrible. So we need Teixeira and trade Lowell.
Instead of trading Lugo and having to eat a huge chunk of his contract they should just keep him on the bench as our utility player. Someone is always bound to go down with an injury for an extended period and they can use him to give players days off. On top of that, he has great speed to come off the bench late in a close game to pinch run. Everyone thought we would trade Coco last year and it turned out to be a great move that we kept him around for insurance. The same should be done with Lugo instead of losing a lot of money on him. I love Cora, but he is a little older now and doesn't have the speed that Lugo has.
Why is everybody all excited about Matt Holliday? The guy doesn't seem to be able to hit anywhere outside of Coors Field? I would never deal Bay for Holliday. At least Bay has proven that he can hit for average. Sure, he strikes out a lot, but he has reasonable power, and he handled Boston really well during his time here. I hope the Sox can land Texiera. In my opinion, that would help put us over the edge next season. His bat is obvious, and to have 2 gold glove guys at the corners would be great. Plus, Tex loves the game, and would be a great clubhouse fit. Signing him, and perhaps finding a bullpen guy, or a utility catcher would be nice.
Newsflash: You do not just "GO GET" Teixeira. He will require a 6 or 8 year deal worth $20+ million per year. That is not how the Sox do business. Plus, for that kind of money, he'd have to have proven he can handle a big market spotlight, proven he can hit in Fenway, and be an established 'character' guy. Tex has done none of these things. Gosh, do you think there's a reason why he's been on three different teams already? Plus, I'm stil waiting for someone to explain why Tex is a "MUST" have? In terms of cost vs. production, the $20+ million per year for Tex is absurd when you consider what they've gotten out of Youk at 1B, and to a much lesser extent, Lowell and Ortizle.
Any interest in Tex by the Sox is merely an effort to drive up the price for either Anaheim or NYY. Period. It's gamesmanship.
Trade Papi for prospect to a club that needs a big bat. Eat some of his Salary. Lowell to DH, Youk to Third, Texera to First.
Put Lugo in the Bullpen as Waterboy.
Give Clay some Wellbutron, Bowden to the Starting rotation and make Wake the Pitching coach.
Bowden for Taylor Teagarden (C TX -- great D, good eye, developing power, very young). THen you could be dealing from a position of strength when negotiating with Borass/Varitek. Make it happen Theo!
If it can be done, I'd like to trade Bay and a pitching prospect for Holliday. I think that's the most logical place to upgrade their lineup. I think their lineup could be this: Jacoby, Pedroia, Holliday, Ortiz, Youkilis, Drew, Lowell, Lowrie, catcher. That's 7 deep for sure, and if Lowrie takes a step forward, it's 8. Plus you don't spend $20 million a year on Teixeira and eat a chunk of Lowell's contract, especially after Lowell took a slight discount to stay in Boston a year ago.
Of course, if they were to sign Teixeira, they'd be set at first and third for years to come, and they could lock up Bay at a reasonable rate and be set in the outfield as well. That would be more expensive, but equally effective.
Hey Ernie, you know zero about baseball!
Jason Bay has hit 30 homers and 100 RBI in 3 of his 4 seasons in the Majors.
If he was so easy to pitch to, he'd be hitting .220 with 10 homes and 45 RBI.
Get a brain!
Sox should sign Bay to a nice extention, and never listen to know nothings like you, Ernie boy.
I say get Marty Pattin & Stan Papi back just for ha ha's! Maybe even Jack Brohammer and Mugsy Allenson as throw ins!!!
Jake Peavy is the best pitcher on that list, but the Padres will probably want a lot in return. If the Sox go after a starting pitcher, I wouldn't mind seeing them go after Burnett. Going for a starter depends on whether they want Masterson as a starter or reliever, whether Wakefield comes back (I say thanks for everything, but its time to go), whether Buchholz can recover form and the status of Bowden (can he move into Masterson's role in the bullpen).
They should definitely go after Mark Teixeira, we can't count on both Lowell or Ortiz returning to form. Please stay away from the Colorado players, their numbers are inflated by Coors Field. Todd Helton's numbers away from Coors field are average at best. I am content with a Bay, Ellsbury & Drew outfield with a decent 4th outfielder (Gabe Kapler available?) for when Drew goes on DL!
Next to acquiring Teixeira, Catching and restocking the bullpen should be high on the list. If you bring back Tek, it is for a part time/sharing position role and no more then two years. In the bullpen, you need to replace Timlin and possibly Lopez if they can't resign and Masterson if he goes to the starting line up.
I agree with several posts here. Sign Tex, move pedroia to short and either youk or lowell to second. Imagine that lignup. Sign Tek and go get a young catcher they can bring along. Play Tek 3 out of 5 games and get the new guy some experieince. I also think if Tek should stop trying to switch hit and just hit right handed which may help his average. Take Lowrey, Crisp, and Bucholz and trade them for Peavy.
Do any of you realize that Hanley Ramirez can't catch a cold?
He's a terrible shortstop. He should be a CF by the time his career gets much further along.
Re-up Jason Bay, he's great.
As for Holliday, look at some of the Sox player's home-away splits. Not any different than Rockies' players.
Problem with Holliday is, could they sign him? If not that's an expensive rental.
I like Texiera very much. Lowell is 35 and coming off major hip surgery.
Make him a super backup. Let him learn 1B, and platoon DH with Papi.
Prince Fielder is allegedly available. He's young and has a low salary.
Nobody hit the ball further than Prince.
JJ Hardy is a great young shortstop the Brewers are shoping.
Bengy Molina is available, coming off a fine year. He could be a stopgap until Joe Mauer becomes a free agent in a couple of years.
It's time to bread the bank and sign Tex and C.C and trade for Peavy.
The Sox really need starting pitchers. Top three Lester, Beckett ((assuming he's healthy)) and Dice-K are all in their 20s and are a strong top 3. Beyond that, Wake needs to retire. Not sure who the 5th starter will be. Byrd (38), Masterson ((back from bullpen)), Clay ((needs to get his head on straight and improve mechanics)), Bowman (21/22 year old, is he ready?).
Rays starting pitching is deep and young, plus David Price will be in the mix next season. Yankees will upgrade as well.
I say spend whatever it takes to get C.C. Sabathia ((Plus even promise him he can DH every once in awhile!!!)) and keep his regular season innings 200 or fewer. With our bullpen and offense, that should be doable.
Then go trade for Peavy. He's had arm problems and wants to stay in N.L. ((would be an adjustment going to A.L.)) but he would be our 5th starter. Again, with bullpen and our offense, we could keep his innings lower and there wouldn't be the stress of being the ace as he adjusts to the A.L. We have the major league talent and minor league talent to get him from the Padres, I think.
This would make our rotation, no particular order: Lester, Beckett, Sabathia, Dice-K and Peavy. Two Cy young winners and all in their 20s. Plus if we could somehow hold on to at least one between Masterson, Clay and Bowman as we trade, we would have backup starters as needed.
This would be one of the best five-man rotations in history of five-rotation baseball.
Sox are shedding $60 million or so from payroll, so signing Tex and CC will be alot more money but not as much as you think. Plus we might lose some payroll in
Mazz must laugh at you fools and your delusional fantasy GM rantings.
Scott - Lowell at second? LOL. Did you OD on Red Bull? If Theo gets Teixiera, then Lowell gets dealt. They'll get little given his hip issue. Did you see him TRY to run?
chappalachia - They're not trading Ortiz. I bet they keep Coco, too.
---------
The Sox have had great luck with young pitchers. Lester, Pap, Masterson, Delcarmen have worked out well. EVERY one won't make it - Buchholz has to be trade bait. Tek is back depending on the cash.
The two big questions in 09...Is Lowrie an every day SS? Does Theo extend Beckett long term?
As Jim Rome would say, I don't understand the "Hater-ade" for Matt Holliday. I live in Denver and I have watched him hit on TV and live. Coors Field is NOT a homer haven anymore. For those of you who are not aware, they have a "humidor." It is designed to keep the balls at the same consistancy as if they were in Boston, New York, or Florida. The runs per game at Coors have gone down. His numbers are higher at Coors because he played there. Didn't Wade Boggs numbers go down after he left Boston? No Monster for doubles?
If he was hitting behind Ortiz, Pai would see a lot more pitches. However, I think he will away if they move him to the fourth sport. Put Drew or Youk in front of him and Bay behind him. Of course, if they do sign Tex, then he would hit infront of Ortiz.
Also, I would take Lowe back as a fourth of fifth man. With a good infield, he will win.
Trade Bay for Catching / relief help. Youk to the OF and Tex at first.
You guys are crazy with the Hanley Ramirez talk. Lets trade Lowell back to the Marlins for him, they will go for that, wont they? LMAO!
To the guy who said we need to base our decisions on what the Yankee's do? WHO CARES WHAT THE YANKEES DO!! They have to fill basically 3 starting pitching spots, decide where to play Jabba the drunk, their roster isnt getting any younger either....sure they will have money to spend, but the core of that team needs serious re-building. They are chasing the Sox now, not the other way around.
Now someone mentioned signing Texiera AND Burnett?? SUUUUURE, and lets go get CC Sabathia AND Sheets....while we are at it, I am sure we can pry Pujols from the Cardinals too.....can you hear the Mr. Rogers music?? you know, dreamy storyland music?
Sign Texiera, trade Lowell OR Papi....either one will work (good luck getting a taker on Lowell though).....Put Masterson back in the rotation....he looked good there last year. Trade Bucholz while he still has SOME value left...this kid is overrated and I have said so since last year when they were looking at Santana. How would that Ellsbury and Bucholz for Santana trade look now? Pretty danmed good.
How do you go through this whole article without talking about the bullpen, which was their biggest weakness throughout 2008???!?!?!?!?!?
Stay away from Matt Holliday. Besides the home/road splits, he seems to have focus issues as well. At a game I went to at Coors Field this year, Rockies fans were complaining that he's asleep at the switch in the outfield, thinking about his next at-bat. Sure enough, right after that a ball was hit to him that he seemed to be unprepared for, and he turned a single into a triple by letting it get by him. Of course we all remember him getting picked off by Papelbon in the '07 World Series too.
Unfortunately, I think the Sox are stuck with what they have or can bring up from the minors for power. Texeira is the only legitimate power guy on the market besides Manny, and someone else who's more desperate than the Sox will overpay for him.
Oh man, I dont know if I agree with much of that article. I believe that the sox should keep youk at 1st, where hes now very comfortable. Lowells a great hitter when hes in the game as well, so keep him for his last year and let him retire a redsox player. Also, Bay is a over 100 RBI, over 20 HR guy, and his ABs help the team out a lot. Drew, Youk, Bay and Papi could be a great combo if Papi just hit opposite instead of hitting into the shift that got him out 99% of the time. Ellsbury needs to hit more spots in the strike zone like that low, inside ball but give him another season and i'm sure he can get that down by the end of it. Get rid of Varitek, even if its for someone with a .250 average..isnt that aleast that much better than .220 if its a good catcher? Papelbon is always a risky closer, but hes pretty good. Keep Jmasterson in the bullpen, because if its not for him, we suck. and GET RID OF TIMLIN. putting timlin in is giving up your game. It was never a doubt in my mind that we would lose every time timlin ran out of that bullpen. What is this pedroia to 3rd talk? he's a great 2B and a great 2 hitter. His RBIs shouldn't even count since in the lineup.. 7 8 9 1 couldnt even get on base. otherwise i think the kid would be at or very close to 100. So keep drew, bay, lowell, papi, pedroia, ellsbury, oh and Lowrie. Throw Lugo outta there he just cant hit, or field for that matter. Lowrie tries on every AB and makes shortstop look way easier than Lugo. Plus, thats 18 million they dont pay since hes a rookie, even though they would have to eat up most of that money to get rid of such a bad player. Lugos a small market team player. go back to those teams. Wake is a good man, never makes excuses for himself and has that average season, keep him as a 5 pitcher, why not. but get a decent 4 pitcher and keep lester dice and beckett.
Texieras a good one, but we got Youk at first! keep cora and get some more good utility players. Lowells a vaccuum over there at 3rd for his time that he can play, and he should be fine for next year so let him finish and show what he can do.. Just get some relievers and a 4 pitcher, and get timlin and lugo OUT of here.
I couldn't disagree more at the possibility of a trade with Colorado for an "upgrade" in their lineup. Holliday, while a good player, has massively differing home-road splits. I am under the opinion that he isn't half the player he is thought of to be. At most, he is a very minor upgrade over Bay. When you factor in what it would take to get him, it is simply a foolish move and I would hope Epstein isn't that stupid. He's proved over and over again that he's not so it is simply your theory that lacks intelligence. Atkins is another player that doesn't project as an upgrade either.
why would you people want to trade Bay for Holliday? Look at Holliday's splits between home and road games. All of his numbers are much better at home, he is clearly a product of Coors Field. He's not that good of a hitter, he just gets helped out by the fact that he plays in Colorado. Bay showed this year that he is an all around above average player. He never does anything to hurt the team, why would you want to get rid of him?
And anyone that doesn't agree with getting rid of Lowell and signing Texiera is crazy. Lowell is clearly on the back 9 of his career, and Tex is in his prime. Lowell's fielding isnt even as strong as it used to be. He is showing his age. Texiera is a top of the line first baseman and Youk will be more than adequate at third. It's a no-brainer.
And I personally think they should go after Derek Lowe. he would be a great #4 starter. I would like it if they didnt pick up Wake's option, because it would give us more flexibility to develop a young catcher behind Tek for when he retires (everyone knows Tek will be back, prob for 2 years). If there is no Wake, then we dont have to carry Cash, we could get a catcher of the future, whether it be Kottaras, or trading for one of Texas' many young catchers. And then use either Buchholz or Bowden as the 5th starter, using Masterson as a setup man.
I really like the idea of landing Teixeira...I think it would be best to bring up pitching from within instead of sign a free agent.
Green Monster writes (with crayons no doubt)
"Trade Bay for catching and put Youk in left field"
Probably the dumbest ideas ever.
Extend Bay, trade prospects and or Delcarmen for a catcher.
The Sox bullpen was our weakest link? Guess you didn't watch the post season.
The bullpen was terrific!
If Big Papi's lack of productivity toward the end of the season was a result of him not being fully healed and the Boston Brass are pretty sure of this then the offseason should go like this.
1) Trade Bay
2) Sign Texiera
3) Move Youk to LF
i think if we trade Bay (moderately paid and free agent in '10) we will get more out of a trade than moving Lowell (coming off hip surgery). Move Youk to left where he has played before. Youk has shown that he can switch to different positions and still be successful. Signing Texiera and putting him at first with Pedroia at 2nd, Lowrie at SS, and Lowell at 3rd. Texiera would give the Sox that threat in the middle of the lineup like they had when Manny was around. Hopefully a healthy Papi will see better pitches batting in front of Texiera.
Could we possibly package Lugo with Bay and Bucholz?? To me the Sox are in a pretty good position to be an excellent team next year if they can get Texiera and figure out their catching situation.
When it comes to catcher, what about David Ross? He hit 21 Home Runs in 247 at bats two years ago in Cincy. I'm sorry, but shouldn't we at least take a long look at him. He's big and strong and in catcher world he's in his prime (31). He was on the post season roster due to his defense. So let's run this down....31 year old 6'2" 238 lb. catcher who has a ton of right handed power and is a good defender.
What am I missing?
As fas as what the Sox should do, let me offer my opinion.
There has been some rumors that Dodgers aren't happy with the attitude of Russell Martin. While it would be absolutely foolish for them to trade him, in a catcher anemic league, they are believed to be willing to listen to offers for him. It would obviously require a substantial bounty, which would have to start with Bucholtz. Someone above mentioned Crisp but the Dodgers aren't exactly in the market for outfielders unless they can miraculously unload one of Jones or Pierre. I know it is ridiculous to even mention it after the year Jones had, but I believe he only has one year left on his contract and you theoretically could get very lucky while expecting next to nothing. I'm still not sure that LA would have a need or a want for Crisp but it is worth the conversation. So I would consider trading Bucholtz, Crisp, and maybe Kottaras for Martin and Jones. Maybe it's a crazy idea as I'm not sure what type of value Bucholtz has right now but I'm sure it would require taking a bad, but yet short contract such as Jones' to acquire a rare commodity such as Martin. I've spent a lot of time on this deal but as far as other deals, I would strongly consider bringing Lowe back depending on the money. He's stated he would like to come back and while it isn't a glaring need, it wouldn't hurt to add to a strong and durable arm such as Lowe to your rotation.
I wouldn't sign Teixeira or Sabathia. My lineup would be Drew, Pedroia, Ortiz, Youk, Martin, Lowell, Bay, Jones, and Lowrie. Then you can spell Drew and Jones frequently with Ellsbury. Hopefully Jones has a resurgence but if not it's only for a year and you get the best catcher, offensively and defensively in the league. It might be worth the conversation at least.
Kelly Shoppach? hmmm that name sounds familiar
I'd get rid of Lowell, Crisp and Cora
Sign Texeira for 1st, move Youk to 3rd...keep Lowie as a utility man unless Lugo is still a disaster next season.
Keep Bay, he had many clutch hits for us and plays a solid outfield
Our pitching staff is fine, plus we have a very good farm system with young pitchers who could come in and give the relief some help.
No need for Halladay over Bay. TEXEIRA TEXEIRA TEXEIRA!!!!!
I forgot about Mauer. Martin is still second best and is a power threat.
Bring back Derek Lowe!!!! If he signs cheap he could be a 4th or 5th starter. I heard on ESPN that he wants to sign in Boston!
It seems like this article is deja vu all over again Tony.
We have a solid front end of rotaiton - pick up solid #4 - get rid of Wake and use one of the kids for #5
Shore up the bullpen - you did not even address that part today
The bottom of the line up needs help - Tek as much as I like him does ntot deserve a fat contract - offer incentive based deal and if he takes it great - you stil need to get another catcher to lesson his load.
Do not trade for Atkins or Holiday - go after Texiera but with a limit - which the Sox front office seems good at setting.
If we were healthy this year we would be playing Phillie right now rather than feeding back this nonsense...
I'm sorry. I'm amazed by the number of absolutely ridiculous comments I've seen on this page. Lets run down some of the most ridiculous ideas that wannabe GMs have mentioned...
- Move Lowell or Youkilis to 2nd and Pedroia to 3rd.....that's it..yeah....put everyone in your infield out of position to sign Teixeira. That makes NO sense at all.
- Why would you trade David Ortiz for a prospect and eat some of his salary? What's the benefit there? I'm imagining how the number crunchers in Boston would react to eating part of Ortiz's contract to over-spend on Mark Teixeira. It might take a forklift to lift their jaws off the floor.
- Trading Jason Bay to Colorado in a deal to acquire Matt Holliday is ridiculous. Bay gives you 30 HR and 100 RBI and really good defense. Why trade that in the hopes that someone else will give you the same thing for more money? Amazing.
- Put any pipe dreams about signing C.C. Sabathia or trading for Jake Peavy to rest. The Sox have a great starting rotation anchored by 3 potential aces and can fill the final two spots with any mix of Wakefield/Byrd/Bowden/Buckholz. Most of the league would love to have the "pitching problem" that the Red Sox have.
- And last but not least....what makes you think that the Florida Marlins would trade their brightest star (Hanley Ramirez) back to Boston? The Florida Marlins are a team with a bright future and are not quite ready to sell the farm just yet. They're only a few years removed from cleaning house and restocking their roster with good young talent like Ramirez and Dan Uggla. There is absolutely NO chance of the Red Sox acquiring Hanley Ramirez OR Prince Fielder. Seriously.....why would Milwaukee trade one of their brightest young stars? They just made the playoffs for the first time in a long time!
I understand that the Red Sox were just eliminated, but they were one game away from the World Series one year removed from winning their 2nd World Series in 4 years. Calm down...let your emotions settle...and then come up with something a bit more logical than this garbage that you've all recommended.
Is Tex really worth it? Worry about our pitching especially the bullpen......
Before falling in love with Texiera, check this take on him from the NY POST:
Teixeira has a mixed reputation. He has much in common with A-Rod. He is diligent about staying in shape year-round, is durable and works hard on all facets of his game. But his detractors - and there are more than a few - say that, like A-Rod, Teixeira is an accumulator who feasts on bad pitching, does his best work when his team is way ahead or behind, and is a corporation unto himself who does not mesh seamlessly with the clubhouse culture. Essentially the overall numbers are better than the total package.
1. Someone with the potential of Clay Buchholz simply should not be traded. We've seen what he can do. His only problem is confidence, which I am willing to bet will come around if he's brought along slowly and can simply string together a few good starts next season. We have an abundance of young pitching talent -- let it develop and either Masterson or Buchholz will become a great starter.
2. For hitting, Lowell is a true character guy and I believe he feels a debt to Sox fans for his inability to help much this year - and therefore will work like crazy this winter and deliver .280-20-100 next year. And Lars Anderson arrives at Fenway in 2010.
3. Try to extend Beckett now. Better now than when he bounces back next year at 19-11-2.85 (topped off by two wins in the World Series).
4. Lowell at 2nd?? While we're at it, maybe we should try Papi at short.
Put together a package of Lowell, a youngster or two, eat some of Lowell's contract and get Benji Molina from the Giants. He has a $6 mm contract and drove in 90 runs on a very, very weak hitting team. He is slow as molasses but very good defensively and is tough. He will catch 162 games if you let him. The Giants have a young replacement they want in their lineup anyway (Pablo Sandoval) and a gaping hole at 3rd base that Lowell could fill for a couple of years.
I have an opinion! Trade this guy, keep that guy.
Nobody cares what you commenters think. Especially Theo.
Why is Manny such a stand out player that will command such $$? Sure he played hard for 2 months in LA, but don't these managers and owners see that once he signs his "huge contract" he will go right back to being the Manny we knew and loathed? I hope whoever is dumb enough to sign him puts in incentive clauses that stipulate quality but knowing BorA$$, that will never happen. Good luck to whoever!
Tony good article, I think Theo said he would be SELECTIVE! Here is what I think they will do: We keep our rotation in tact and yes Wakefield is a bargain at only 4 mil who eats lots of innings with our 5th and 6th Starters being the youngsters like Buckholz and Bowden and even Masterson if the Sox can find a solid 7th inning reliever. Then get Tex who is a must even if it costs 25 mil for 7 years and that would be cheaper than what we paid Manny and Schilling this year. Trade Coco while he has value. Nothing wrong with having Tex, Youk, and Lowell to play 2 positions because somebody always gets hurt, and besides Lowell is a ?
In regards to catching, perhaps a better option would be to try to deal for Jarrod Saltalamachia, Max Ramirez, or Taylor Teagarden from Texas.
Texas has THREE young catchers with solid futures ahead of them. None of them have a ton of Major League experience so they wouldn't be starters in 2009 for Boston, but platooning one of them with Varitek would probably be a good idea.
Texas always needs pitching, Boston has the arms, seems like a good fit (depending on which arms they want).
Your perseveration about Matt H is beginning to exceed Chad Finn's fixation with oscure 70's utility infielders who happened by The Show at the precise moment when uncontrolled hormone surges were making molten memory banks out of young Chad's cerebellum. I suggest you hit him up for a vintage baseball card of the great Rockie. Then, when you get the urge to write about shipping Jason Bay off to Coors for Matty Rare Air, you can retire to your cubie instead and plant a wet one on his card. This should last you until Thanksgiving, when the card will have disintigrated into a formless loogie of cardboard pulp and Mazz Drool.
That's why you should plan now for Phase 2, and run down to the Halloween Store and pick up half a dozen of those novelty Wax Lips. In Phase 2, when striken with a Matt Holliday palpitation, you'll want to gift wrap a pair of the Wax Lips and send them to Colorado with a nice note. I would NOT go on one of your stemwinders about your hopes of him joining the Olde Towne Team -- he might try to flee the country. Just include a tasteful, short verse with a subtle hint to it, like...
'Roses are Red, Violets are Blue,
Monsters are Green,
in Left Field behind You.'
-- Mazz
Or even a hook line like..
'Red are the Sox you've waited your whole life for!'
--Mazz.
After a few notes and a budding collection of lips -- assuming he hasn't started looking for a gas stove to insert his head in -- he will know by the ghost of Johnny Thunders that Boston.com is waiting for him with nothing less than love, L-U-V.
Just pullin' your leg, Mazz. We always enjoy your stuff. But stop with the idea of shipping Jason Bay out of town for another untested NL guy. We've already test driven Bay, and all he does is produce runs -- he knocks in 100+, and then lays on another 110+ runs scored. And in his first post season sample of 12 games, he didn't fade like Vladi or A Rod. He took it up a notch and hit .341 with an OPS of over 1.1 That beats Manny's career post season numbers, and his numbers for both the '03 and '04 playoffs. Bay carried the offense in the division series upset of the Angels. We have all of next year to get a further read on Bay. He was only 29 when we got him, and so far, he looks good for a 3 to 4 year extension. .
Kevin Kevin
Tony: The Sox need to bid "adieu" to Tim Wakefield. I'm tired of the knuckler. It's not a real pitcher's pitch--it's a gimmick. I was born in Boston 64 years ago so spare me the song about not loving the Sox. I know Wakefield has thrown a fair number of "great" games in his Sox career. But he's old, and his knuckleball, when it's not "dancing," "diving," "ducking," and "dipping," it's pure unadulterated batting practice for the Sox' opponents. Take a look at Wakefield's line in the fourth ALCS game--the 13-4 demolition. He gave up two fence-busters in the first inning (or was it three?) and four overall before Tito mercifully asked for the ball. Wakefield's done; sentiment aside, baseball is a hard game and it's a hard business. This is the time to re-tool; remember, we're no longer the world champions or even the A.L. champions--Tampa Bay is--and if we're going to compete in the crocodile pit of the A.L. East next year, we've got to have our stuff together. Please, Theo, don't--that's DO NOT--pick up Wakefield's option.
Why trade BIG PAPI!!! Trade Lowell, Lugo and Crisp to some other team to get some pitching, then absoutely sign TEIXEIRA. Maybe the Sox can make a trade with the Dodgers to get Martin. I heard some rumors that he's available or will be soon. I don't think the Sox will get Peavy because the price is way too high (maybe the Braves will get him). I wouldn't trade Jacoby, Lowrie and Masterson for him. Hey Pedro's a free agent (haha) sign him for a year or two, or D-Lowe. I would like to see Masterson in the Starting Rotation. I thought he was a little shaky in relief.
Why not the best of both worlds? Sign Texeira and keep Lowell/Big Papi? Then use a 4 man rotation for 3 spots similar to what we did in the outfield this year. So Texeira (1b/DH), Youk (1b/3b), Lowell (3b/DH) and Big Papi (DH). Let's face it, it is almost inevitable that Lowell and Big Papi will miss time, that's why we are discussing replacing them in the first place. With more time off, they'll stay healthier and Youk and Tex can have some extra days of rest here and there. And if everyone stays unusually healthy, I bet you could stick Youk in right for some games when JD goes down with his yearly injuries (back, hamstring, vertigo etc.). The additional benefit is you don't lose Lowell's or Big Papi's presence in the clubhouse.
For pitching, Burnett sounds best to me, if he opts for free agency. Why trade prospects for pitching (Peavey) when we have solid depth? And please, please, please move Masterson back to a starter. When Paps went to the bullpen it was to close and that made sense because a dominant closer approximately equals a solid starter. Masterson did terrific as a rookie starting. We need this guy chewing up 200 innings a year for the next 10 years, not pitching the 8th inning. We can buy or trade spare parts for 7th and 8th inning help. So, Beckett, Lester, Dice-k, Masterson and one of Wake/Buchholz/Bowden.
Anyone that wants to trade Papi and/or Lowell is crazy! What has Texiera ever done that makes him so wonderful?? He has always played on bad teams. In my opinion is he is such a great player, why has none of his former teams signed him to a long term deal. Also, DO not trade Jason Bay.
yea i really think we should get texeira and try to trade lowell even tho he's a good guy n all but player wise he getting older and moving youkilis to third and tex to first would be a pretty good fit. our line up would be nasty and as for pitching which we also really need, we should go for c.c. or peavy two of the top pitchers available this off season. if we can do these moves or atleast one of them will be good. hopfully theo epstain will be smart with wat he is doing
Gold glove third baseman, first baseman, move him to second, SS, left field, hey lets have him pitch. Glad Theo is running this team not the people here and that includes MAZZ, who does not have a clue, he just continues to puke up what we all know!
God Almighty....you people that want to trade Bay are idiots. Holliday doesn't hit well outside of Denver. Bay hits 30 HR's, drives in 100 plus , bats .290 and plays good defense. He also led the Sox in many categories in the playoffs. And Bay did those numbers 3 times in 4 years with the lousy Pirates without protection...sign Teixeira and Burnett> try to move Papi, he's sadly done as a star. KEEP BAY, no matter what some writers are pushing !!!
Let me bottom line it for everyone
Matt Holiday at home per 600 at bats (full season):
600 ab 33 HR 121 RBI's .357 AVG .423 OBP .645 Slugging pct
Matt Holiday away from Coors field per 600 at bats (full season)
600 ab 18 HR 72 RBI's .280 AVG .348 OBP .455 Slugging pct
yes 18 homers and 72 rbi's
and you want to replace Jason Bay with Matt Holiday?!?!?!
this is the 5th article in 5 days Mazz has mentioned Tex and dumping Lowell, moving Youk to 3rd. Get some new material. Besides, getting Tex won't happen.
signing Tex long term will block Lars Anderson. I'm not sure they want to do that. Lars will be ready to come up by 2010 at the latest
Ok, I have read enough of these comments. Come on, people, let's use some common sense. Why don't we see if the Rockies will give us 2 top prospects & Holliday for Lugo & Crisp? Then we can put him at SS! Yeah, ok.
D-LOWE
Loved the guy when he was here. Sad to see him go but was necessary. SO, if it was necessary then and if it was the Red Sox who decided not to bring him back in '05 (he stayed a free agent as long as possible hoping to return) then WHY would anything be any different NOW? Not to mention that Boras is his agent so he ain't coming here cheap!
A.J. BURNETT
Definitely a good pitcher-- when he's actually on the mound. Not a good idea to sign. Let the Yanks have him. He'll be 32 at the beginning of the '09 season. He had one of his better years last year with a 4.07 ERA-- not exactly dominating. No sense overpaying on the market for a pitcher who's getting older and doesn't have a great track record. There's more upside bringing up a young guy for cheap than signing him.
JAKE PEAVY
DO IT! This guy is (almost) 27, has a career 3.25 ERA (2.85 in '08), throws strikes, is relatively cheap due to his contract, and would fit in this staff PERFECTLY! You'd have Peavy, Beckett. Matsuzaka & Lester, all potential Aces, and all 29 or younger! Talk about the future being now. I'd do a 3-for-1 deal with some combo of these: (Lowrie OR Ellsbury), (Bowden OR Masterson) and Buchholz.
C.C. SABATHIA
Piece of garbage, straight up. We'll see him in humongous pinstripes. This guy just can't pitch in the postseason. And it's only a matter of time before his health (or lack of) catches up with him. Stay away!
MATT HOLLIDAY
I'd love to have him eventually, BUT wait til next year. There's no sense trading for him and giving up top prospects-- Boras is bringing him to free agency no matter what after the '09 season so just wait it out.
MARK TEIXEIRA
Tough call cause I've wanted him here for years but he will be expensive. However, he's young and a solid all-around player AND bringing him here keeps him out of NY, so it's definitely worth considering. Move Lowell. There are tons of teams who would love to have him and we can still get something decent in return (BP help?).
JASON BAY
Extend his contract, period. The guy can play here. So could Orlando Cabrera. Remember how that worked out?
HANLEY RAMIREZ
NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Forget about that and get on with your lives. The Sox can afford less offensive production from SS & C if they add some pop elsewhere.
TIM WAKEFIELD / KEVIN CASH
Love them but time to move on. Too many roster spots tied up for mediocre-at-best pitching.
JOSH BARD
Sign him, have him switch off with Varitek 65-70% of the time.
JASON VARITEK
Re-sign him, start him 2 out of every 5 starts, bat him from the RIGHT SIDE ONLY!
Ok, now stop all the worrying. Even if they do almost nothing they'll STILL be fine. Many teams have WAY bigger problems with WAY fewer options to fix them.
why don't give lars anderson a shoot?
if you sing tex you'll bloking lars
Only an idiot would suggest trading Jason Bay, and moving Kevin Youkilis to left field.
Almost as funny is getting Andruw Jones from the Dodgers.
Possibly had the worst year in baseball history.
im not sure why everyone thinks that we woould have to trade lowell if we got tex. I think a smarter move would be to trade lugo for nothing and keep lowell as a back up. He is coming of surgery and is not exactly young, so he could give ortiz a break here and there, as well as tex or youk. Remember how everyone was talking about how we need a right handed bat with some pop off the bench? enter mike lowell. Its not like we would be eating alot more salary than we did with lugo. Lugo makes 9 mill per and lowell makes 12. 3 mill aint much of a diff. THIS IS THE SOLUTION.
If anyone would be traded, it would be Lowell. I think this offseason is the beginning of looking into Boston's future. That is why I hope they sign Teixeira. I see Youk being bumped to third and obviously Teixeira at first. Then some day in the future he would become the hopeful DH. Don't forget people, the Red Sox still have some eggs in the minors (ie: Lars Anderson). I see Theo going for some bullpen reinforcements but with Buchholz's resurgence in the AFL, Masterson might just stay in the bullpen but we don't know that yet.
If Tonny is right about Matt Holliday as he was with B.J. Upton then that's the guy Boston needs
Papi is done. Lowell is done. Tek is done. Sorry... loved them all but reality is what it is.
I just don't think Lowell will return solid. Papi is tired, swing is too. Tek.... man I'd love to see him stay but as a backup to Cash.
Bring on Texeira,
Or... Adam Dunn, Carl Crawford and Milton Bradley are possible free agents after this year, correct? Can you see Dunn's swing in Fenway? Woof!
We have plenty of young pitchers so I say sign Lowe as #4.
My too sense anyways...
It's worth noting that every commenter here who is urging a trade for Lowell is forgetting that Lowell signed for less money to play in Boston. For all the garbage posted about 'lack of loyalty' and 'it's all about money' on the players' part, it's obvious that many fans, also, lack character. (I won't even bother to mention the fans who flee the park in the midst of an apparent playoff blowout...)
I hope the Sox remember what Lowell did, and work around his age/injury by platooning rather than trading him. Otherwise, management is sending a bad message to the rest of the team, many of whom themselves will enter free agency soon. What will the club be able to offer them, in exchange for their 'loyalty', if they show none themselves?
Lotta good stuff here and some pretty funny....To me nothing gets done until the Sox fugure out where they are going with Tek. If they sign him for a couple more years they neeed to go and get a vet like Hernandez or Molina as a strong backup and also try to find a young catcher as it doesnt look like they have one in the system. The Rangers have 3 good catchers and this might be the way to go as it has been reported before they like Teagarden. Coco should be the biggest chip they have after finishing strong. Its time to use it as Ellsbury will bounce back. Kotsay is a nice 4th or 5th OFand he also provides depth at first.
Talk of trading Lowell is a bit farfetches as who is going to trade for a guy that just had hip surgury, is 35, and is owed 25 mil? His place is here and so is Papi's. I cant believe how so many are so quick to give up on this guy. Leave the starting pitching alone and let the kids battle for the five spot. If it doesnt work out they can deal in June. This team is pretty darn good as it stands.
Man. The sox are turning into the little brother version of the Yankees. Buy, buy, buy your team. What happened to the farm system? If anything, the Rays have shown that you can sign and groom young talent. What happened to the good 'ol days of developing your own product. Why buy from the other guys down the street!
What do Matt Holliday, Manny, Derek Lowe, Andruw Jones, Mark Teixiera, Prince Fielder, Eric Gagne, Abreu, Jason Varitek and Barry Zito have in common. With the exception of Manny and Mark Teixiera they are over-rated and they are all definitely OVERPAID.
Their agent?....Scott Boras. Do not deal with any of these players, you will be burned.
The comments about moving Youk to LF are crazy. He belongs on the corners. Bay is our man in LF.
While it would be nice pick up CC I really don't see the sox shelling out that kind of cash when our pitching is solid already. Lowe would be nice but will command too much $$$ as well for his age... and there is no way Peavy is coming to the AL. I expect they'll be in the mix for Burnett but only to drive up the cost. A better option would be Brad Penny. The Dodgers are reportedly going to let him go and we could likely get him for little $$$. If he can return to his 06-07 form and stay healthy he'd be a great #4 then we can let the "kids" duke it out over #5. Can Wake. It's time to retire before things get ugly.
I have no clue as to what to do about the bullpen but I think they'll solve that with farm hands.
As for catching it's a tough call but I think they'll attempt to sign Tek for 2 more years and perhaps trade for Martin or one of the Rangers bevy of catchers. I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to work something out for Mauer (if Tek doesn't work out) either this year or next. He'd be a great addition but I'm sure he'll be highly sought after.
I think we should trade Lowell, if possible, try to land Tex and if we can swing Colorado in taking Drew and a couple of prospects for Holliday (either for LF or RF... could we move Bay to RF?) then it could, while being quite a risk, work to our advantage. After all Drew is a health risk anyway. It all sounds expensive but we have the $$$. We'll see what happens... and I'm sure I'm far off.
This offseason could go so many different ways and it'll be a blast to watch it unfold.
You clowns realize that Teixiera is 29 and has been on three different teams that have yet to win a single postseason series?
Yeah, let's give him $150 million guaranteed and then platoon him with Youk, Ortiz, and Lowell in the "four guys for three positions" game. Absolutely the most absurd collection of comments that I've seen since the "Save Joe Kerrigan" posts on PSF.com years ago...
I say offer Tek small money, get Teixeira, and keep Lowell to back-up to Youk at 3B and to DH against lefties. This would allow Tito to keep them all (Tex, Youk, Lowell, Papi) rested, would back-up for the invetable injury, and help Papi's hitting, not only because he'd be getting some rest, but also because the opposition would be less likely to bring in lefty relievers if they realize they'd be inviting Tito to switch to Lowell.
Tek won't get more than small money anywhere else.
I want Derek Lowe back. I don't think they need to add a high priced ace to the staff, but a guy like Lowe, for all this faults, would be a very solid 3/4 starter and might not break the bank to sign if he wants to come back here. The big reason I want him back is playoffs. As great as Beckett,Lester and Dice-K are, I don't get the feeling that they're unbeatable in the playoffs. More times than not, they come through, but there's always the chance that they just don't have it. I don't know how he does it, but Lowe just seems clutch in the playoffs, and his regular seasons in LA were pretty good, considering the team wasn't great every year he was there.
Texeira at 1st base.
Youk at 3rd.
Platoon Mike Lowell between 3rd, 1st and DH.
TRADE ORTIZ if possible for pitching. He's lost it and getting old.
Bring up a kid from the minors who can hit in the DH spot.
Leverage the farm system for pitching. Don't trade pitching. Pitching wins championships. See Tampa pitching...
James...the Rays have tremendous talent because they were drafting so high for 10 years. When you win like the Sox have, your top picks are not quite the same as a top 5 when you pick that high for that long. Sox do quite well with their farm , but the Rays have finally reaped off their misery. Of course, they certainly have done well with their picks...they could have been that train wreck known as the Pirates....BTW, folks, Bay had those 30-100-.285 numbers in that unfriendly PNC Park as a RH batter. Holliday had very average numbers outside Coors. Bay is the much better fit for the Sox.
Mazz, get over your addiction to Holliday and Atkins!! Check out the splits, they're both extremely overrated. Coors Field products, no more, no less. Jason Bay is just as good, if not better for the Sox in left field, so there's no point in making a lateral (or downward) move. Teixiera is the only one who would be worth the money, but the Sox would have tough decisions to make at third or first to acquire him.
Hang in there sox fans whatever theo does you know it will be great!!!! keep the faith boston and get Teixeria!!!!!!!!!!
No to Holliday, Atkins, or any other Coors creations.
We're better off with Bay and Lowell.
Seattle has a young Jason Varitek in Rob Johnson, a great catching prospect drowning in the anonymity of the Mariners system. Maybe the Sox can go to the well one more time and steal a catcher from the clueless Mariners.
James,
I agree that the farm system is important, but you have to remember that the Rays spent ten years in the gutter to accrew all of their draft picks and develop their farm system. Find a balance - farm system youth and infuse veteran leadership/assassins when they become available and there is a good fit. All this talk of Texeira - I think he's all but signed in Anaheim (they just have to wait till November to oficiallly do so). I think that it's going to be tricky to really improve the team. Who would take Lowell with his hip? Matt Holiday? Is that significantly better than J-Bay, who we already know can play in Boston? Jacoby and Papi are big question marks. I think that it just shows how perfect everything has to go in order to win. It will be most intersting though.
Go Sox!
Larry from Newburyport ,
I hope Francona keeps making all those bad decisions. 2 rings in his 5 years as a manager...keep up the bad decisions Francona. Go get your pink hat Larry and get a clue while you are at it.
Is it really worth signing Teixiera for 120 million just for 10 more HR and 30 more RBI? Everyone wanted Mike Lowell back last year he's one year into his new deal and everyone's had enough. That's why no one here will be a GM.
Mike still had 17 HR and 73 RBI in 100 games. He'll be fine. If I'm worried about anyone it's Ortiz.
It's almost hot stove time so.. the sox should try to get Lincecum and Posey from the Giants. Sox have enough depth they could throw several good players back at the Giants . There are all kinds of combinations possible as SF need almost everything. Sox have lots of prospects and some vets where the giants could become relevant and still be salary conscious. Allowing them to still be free agent players. Sox would get a great young pitcher, and a prospect (Posey) that could have a Longoria, Tulowitzky impact in two years.
If everyone thinks Varitek calls a great game and does a good job handling the pitching staff then make him the PITCHING COACH! He can't hit has a$$ with both hands. He can't throwout anyone. Kevin Cash would be an upgrade.
Wakefield needs to go too!
Great article for us Sox junkies, Tony. I hate to say it, but the Sox need to be more practical about Tim Wakefield. His ERA has been above 4.00 in each of the last six seasons. He has little chance of winning 15 games, pitching 200 innings, or having a sub-4.00 ERA in 2009. Starting him in the ALCS this year was akin to giving Tampa Bay a 1-0 advantage going in. I have a feeling Wakefield would like to stick around long enough to become the Sox' all-time leader in wins (he needs 29 more to pass Cy Young and Roger Clemens). But should the Sox keep paying him $4 million per year until he achieves that goal, even if his ERA goes into the 5.50 range, as it has in the past? Why?
A Bay in hand is worth two in the bush - don't trade him. I recall a Pirates fan commenting on a board that he'd be well-liked by Boston fans because he's a good, SOLID player, no attitude. He was placed in a very high -pressure situation and was able to produce. WHY trade him??? Also I may be in the minority here, but Ellsbury is not ready to be in the bigs and was brought up too quickly.
Its a great time to be a sox fan. Dont expect any major moves this offseason. This club won 95 games. Could have won well over 100 if it werent for all those injuries and setbacks. Theo may add a little pitching help but dot forget , we have masterson, bowden and that guy clay ( growing pains ) waiting in the wings. Look for Tek to sign an incentives contract ( like Schilling did ) and a few new bench players. Lowrie is probably our new SS, he will only get better, and the other starting eight players are still pretty lethal. Remember, if we had a healthier becket in the ALCS we would be in the world series right now. In theo we trust.
Just want to make a rule for this message board: