Expect Sox to break bank for Teixeira
Here's a prediction: By the time this is over, win or lose, the Red Sox effectively will have made Mark Teixeira the largest contract offer in the history of your storied franchise.
Preposterous, you say? Clearly, you have not been paying attention. Since the Red Sox changed ownership, management, and philosophies early in 2002, the new owners and operators of the Red Sox have stopped at virtually nothing to acquire those things they have coveted most. When the best of the rest were bidding $35 million-$40 million to acquire the rights to Daisuke Matsuzaka, the Red Sox bid $51.11 million. When the rest of the world wondered why J.D. Drew opted out of his contract in Los Angeles, the Red Sox dropped $70 million in Drew's lap. And knowing what we know now, nothing might have been more aggressive than the $36 million the Sox paid for Julio Lugo.
The point is this:
When the Sox want something enough, they make sure they get it.
In the case of Teixeira, rest assured that the Sox want him, no matter what games are being played by club officials. Publicly and privately, the Sox are saying nothing about their interest in Teixeira and playing dumb every time his name comes up. It's as sure a sign as any that they are preparing to go to extraordinary lengths. Last year, in the midst of the Johan Santana trade talks, the Sox were far more forthcoming about who and what they were willing to offer. When all was said and done, the Sox were not interested in acquiring Santana so much as they were interested in driving up the price for the rival Yankees; as it turned out, they kept Santana out of the Bronx altogether.
Lest anyone think the Sox are now employing a similar strategy, you are mixing apples and oranges. Santana was available only by trade, meaning any interested team had to part with prospects to get him. In the case of the Yankees, New York has an especially limited supply. By forcing the Yankees to give up more for Santana than they truly wanted would have caused some damage to the team's feeder system, hurting New York over the long term. Prospects come in limited supply for any team, no matter how big the major league payroll.
But money? Please. The Yankees have a virtual bottomless pit. Are the Sox really going to do damage to the Yankees in hiking Teixeira's price by $2 million a year? $3 million? $5 million? Last season, depending on the formula, the Yankees spent anywhere from $50 million-$70 million more than the Red Sox on their league roster. After the season, in Jason Giambi, Mike Mussina, Bobby Abreu, Carl Pavano and Andy Pettitte, the Yankees erased more than $70 million from their payroll. They are moving into a new stadium. They quite literally have cash to burn, even in these economic times.
In fact, what the Red Sox truly fear here is that the Yankees can outbid them on Teixeira, explaining why the Sox have failed to confirm any interest in the player at all. With the possible exception of the New York Mets, who just exercised their contract option on first baseman Carlos Delgado, the Yankees are the only team in baseball who could outbid the Red Sox for Teixeira's services. The Yankees could do it in a big way, too, giving Teixeira the kind of money that would put him in the clouds with Alex Rodriguez.
Remember: The Yankees did it with Johnny Damon, offering him 30 percent more ($52 million over four years) than the Red Sox (four years, $40 million) because they knew they had to overpay by a significant margin.
If the Yankees were willing to give Damon $3 million a year more than anyone else, do you really think they’re going to pull back on Teixeira?
The Sox, on the other, always have a drop area. We learned that when they tried to trade Manny Ramirez for Rodriguez following the 2003 season. The Sox went in with a plan to restructure Rodriguez's contract so they could fit him into their budget, then frustratingly backed out when the players union rejected the proposal. At the time, they believed they were Rodriguez's only real escape route and they tried to leverage that against Rodriguez, the Texas Rangers, and the union.
Of course, as soon as the Sox learned that the Yankees were about to acquire Rodriguez as a third baseman, they fell all over themselves trying to get back in the game, suddenly willing to give up everything necessary to bring Rodriguez to Fenway Park.
Thankfully, as it turned out, they failed.
In the case of Teixeira, the parameters have been in place for quite some time. Roughly 18 months ago, before being dealt by the Texas Rangers, Teixeira turned down an eight-year, $144 million offer that translated into $18 million per season. At the time, Teixeira was still a season-and-a-half short of free agency. Teixeira's resume has only grown since then, which likely places his current value between $20 million-$25 million per season over the next six to eight years at a minimum.
Know what that means? It means that in order to sign him, someone must pay $150 million-$200 million over at least the next six or eight seasons. On the shorter end of that, Teixeira easily will eclipse the annual $20 million salary earned by Ramirez during his productive and somewhat tumultuous time in Boston. On the longer end, Teixeira could end up with a package approaching $200 million, $40 million more than the $160 million deal Ramirez acquired during the winter of 2000-01.
Again, do not be deluded or deceived by the gamesmanship that takes place at this time of year. Anyone who thinks that the Yankees view Nick Swisher as a replacement for Teixeira is terribly naïve. (For weeks following the 2005 season, the Yankees insisted they had no interest in Damon, either.) Teixeira is a 28-year-old switch-hitter with power who plays excellent defense and comes with a great makeup. He is precisely the kind of player worthy of a landmark contract, particularly for a Red Sox team needs to infuse the middle of its lineup with youth.
Two years ago, when the Red Sox signed Matsuzaka, many were stunned at the lengths to which the Red Sox went. We later learned that the Sox had Matsuzaka on their radar for years, that their pursuit of him had been plotted for some time. Now the Sox’ free agent of choice is Teixeira, who long has been due to hit the open market in the fall of 2008 and whom the Red Sox have lusted after for quite some time.
Do you really think they came this far to make him some sort of halfhearted offer?
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Hope they get him. Lineup would be amazing.
Just a thought: what about, instead of trading Lowell if they get Tex, trading Youkilis? Can his value get any higher than right now?
I think you mean thank God the Red Sox didn't acquire Rodriquez because it would have meant trading away our All Star HOF slugging left fielder...you remember him? The MVP of the World Champion Boston Red Sox.
Go all out!! Get Tex!!!
Agreed and agreed. Management wants this guy bad and they're gonna do what it takes. At this point I'd be surprised if he DIDN'T end up here...
The only two things standing in the way are an astronomical offer by the Yankees, or a comparable offer (when compared to red sox offer) from the Angels and Tex deciding he just likes that SoCal sun too much.
If the Sox can make this deal they would have redundancy (given Youk's versatility) as an insurance policy against injury at every position on the field (including DH) ...well ofcourse for at catcher :-(
You are an idiot...where are they gonna play Youk, Lowell and Ortiz? Three positions for four people?
My prediction is Teixeira ends up with the Red Sox for 8 years, $200 million.
You'll have to match Arte Moreno who's wearing his"do whatever it takes to beat boston once in October" t-shirt to winter meetings
In my opinion, one of the most intriguing aspects about Teixeira is the tag of "feared hitter" that he can be in the Red Sox lineup. They had that with Ramirez, and as Ortiz gets older, he's losing it. It's not a knock on Jason Bay and Kevin Youkilis to say that they don't seem to evoke fear into opposing pitchers. They're great players with good power numbers, but to have a potential 40 HR guy in the middle of the lineup would be tremendous. Imagine a batting order of Ellsbury, Pedroia, Teixeira, Ortiz, Youkilis, Drew, Bay, Lowrie, and (fill in name of catcher here); that would be impressive. While the Red Sox seem to have a formidable pitching staff, it doesn't do them any good if you aren't scoring runs. In an offseason that sees the Yankees stocking up on free agents, it wouldn't hurt for the Red Sox to keep pace with them with a big splash of their own.
this might sound crazy, but anyone think about bringing manny back? at $20 mill for 6 years he maybe the best deal out there (certainly cheaper than tex) and he is a proven entity at fenway (has anyone looked at the numbers tex has put up at fenway, they're terrible)... it might take a little humility on theo's part, but i think it's the smart thing to do
Mr. Massarotti - can't you put "MAZZ" up in bigger letters?
Red Sox Suck!!!
MAZZ - While I recognize the Yanks can afford whatever they desire, you can still only play nine men and committing 200mil on 1b may not be in their best interest when Posada may never catch again and Jeter might have to move there in the not too distant future. Swisher is a short term commitment who can play other positions or could be moved easily if need. By tying up first base for the next 10 years the Yanks will lose a lot of flexibility that Swisher now affords them.
great points........ Being a Red Sox fan, I would love to see this happen. The only problem is Lowell. After his great 07 season they signed him for some pretty good cash, where do you put him now? But just think about that line up with Teixeira in it...... 1-7 could be the starting line up for the 09 all star team.
Very sensible.. my only worry is what they do with the infield. Do they move Youk to 3rd and make Lowell DH? Maybe they can rotate DH duty to rest up infield, esp. with consecutive games or doubleheaders.
where does he play though, with youk at first, lowell at third, and papi at dh?
And finally, one last tidbit...
As I recall, Teixeira was originally drafted by the Red Sox while in College in Georgia, only to decline the original money-offer, and to return to school and get picked in the 1st round the following year.
Take it for whatever it's worth both for how long the Sox have liked him, and how he'd rather sit and wait for the money...
Seeing that 20 Mil for Manny is gone, and 5 Mil for Crisp...I expect the Sox to offer about 23-25 Mil a year for Teixeira over 7-8 years.
No player of any sport is worth that kind of money!!
I can barely make out your self-aggrandizing, self-appointed nickname because the letters are so small. Does that say "MAZZ?"
I repeat- Did Mike Lowell run over your dog? Your manlove of Teixeira is both embarassing and unseemly. He is not the second coming! Teixeira is not what the sox need. They need catching, for Papi to get in shape, and more pitching. High priced free agents do not work out. Lowell is proven, an incredibly hard worker who played with fractures in his hip. Imagine how good he will be all healed.
1B-Mark Teixeira, 2B-Mike Lowell, 3B-Kevin Youkillis, SS-Dustin Pedroia. Pedroia could handle SS, I would bet that Lowell could handle 2B. Would they do it? Who knows. Should they do it? I hope so! Think of the lineup: Ellsbury (L), Pedroia (R), Teixeira (S), Youkillis (R), Ortiz(L), Bay (R), Drew (L), Lowell (R), Veritek (S). Keep Lowrie as the MI and that is one heck of a team.
it's not my money. sign him!!
You can keep writing about it almost every day, but it's not happening.
Sox owners didn't get where they are in business by overpaying for an overrated product.
Isn't there a global recession going on? From a p.r. point of view, what will it look like to give Teixeira $150-200 million in this economic climate? Previous large contracts were already ridiculous (A-Rod, Manny, Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton, Johan Santana). To do it today would look even worse.
Why would you bid for Teixeria when you got Youk? Teixeria is way to good to be a back up!!
Tony.
you are so on the ball! People may forget that the Red Sox had tried to draft Texiera but were unable to. With the uncertainty of the health of Lowell and the age of Ortiz, it is important for the Sox to get younger at the corner positions. With Coco gone they still can play Lowell at 3rd and Youk in the outfield. When Lowell is healthy they can trade him to a young team that needs a great clubhouse presence. So far I like what they have done.
If the Red Sox sign Mark Teixeira, what will happen with Youkilis?
If the Sox get Teixeira, does this mean they would move Yuke to 3rd and dump Lowell? Say it ain't so!
I have only boticed Teixeira play this year when he was with the Angels after reading all these discussions about the (then) upcoming offseason and what he would command in free agency. Nothing about his play that I saw overly impressed me - and he was absolutely a non-factor in our playoff series with the Angels.
Do those of you (Mazz or any subsequent commenter) who've watched him play really think he's worth what he's expected to be given? Is this expected signing really a reflection of his ability or is it our one-upmanship with the Yankees or the fact that both teams really can spend that money or baseball market conditions (players' contracts just keep getting larger and larger)?
How can anyone realistically play consistently to the level needed to be worth that much money?
Okay - What can we get for Mike Lowell?
As I recall, the Sox drafted Texiera and failed to sign him. Does Boras hold grudges, or is it just about the bottom line?
So Yuke becomes an Outfielder or catcher?
Nothing makes me want to read a column more, or endear me to the credibility of a sports columnist like being insulted right after the story's lead. Are there any columnists left in Boston that don't take shots at their readers in the first few paragraphs any more? It seems especially contrived when, like Mazz here, they assume we're balking at a statement that is so obviously agreeable, that you just read it and wonder if these guys have all really decided that people who call in to WEEI are really representative of what fans are thinking. And in this case I don't even think the yahoos who call to complain because they know it gets them on the air, would disagree with Mazz's lead.
I agree that the Yankees will be hard to outbid. I also understand that their #1 option is not Nick Swisher at first base. The Yankees do want Teixeira. The problem is see for the Yankees is not money. It never is. The problem for them is Jorge Posada. The problem is that they have tied up $52mm for Jorge Posada to catch, and he will likely not be able to do it full time. They could DH him, but they still have Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon to share that spot. They could try to trade one of Matsui or Damon to make room. Things get a bit more complicated. The Yanks priority is also to sign Sabathia and 1 of Burnett, Lowe, or Pettitte. Do the Yankees really commit $25mm per for Sabathia and $25mm per for Teixeira, while paying out $27mm per for Rodriguez, and $20mm per for Jeter? They certainly can, but will they? That's a big chunk to 4 players. Matsui and Damon will have to be replaced after 2009. Do the Yankees really go with Melky Cabrera/Austin Jackson in CF, Nady in RF, and Swisher in LF in 2010? Not likely. This means they will have to shell out another megabucks contract for an outfielder next off-season (Matt Holliday?). Also, does Derek Jeter or A-Rod finish their careers at their current positions? A-Rod will be 34 in July, Jeter will be 35 in June, and already is declining defensively. Can they stay at their respective positions for the next 6 seasons if Teixeira is signed to play first base? One will likely end up at DH or they will have the worst defense in baseball. Where does that leave Posada? He is there through 2011.
It's just something else to consider. The Yanks can throw up smokescreens too.
I absolutley love Texiera. I think he is a hell of a ball player, and he deserves all of that money. However, what do we do with Mke Lowell. I am assuming that we will move Youk over to third, but who would want to trade for Lowell. An aging third basemen who ended his season with injury. I say, make a huge offer to Texiera to keep him away from the bronx.
Tony, proof read your material before you have it put up on this site please. Or in your case should I say pleeze?
"no matter what games are being paid by club officials"
paid by club officials Tony? Really? Your in that much of a rush to go on the Big Show that you can't even proof read your own material?
OK, Tony, frankly I disagree with your reasoning but that's my opinion.
Assuming the Red Sox do this what happens to Lowell and/or Youk?
Tony, just like in your example of Damon, what is to prevent the Yankees from keeping an open big to go $3m higher per annum than the Sox? With their increased spending capability the bidding for Tex could approach $30mm per annum.
Mazz enough with ur man crush on Teixeira
I say spend the money. 21/22 mill a year for 5-6 years. Our lineup needs a new power bat desparately.
Assuming they sign Tex the infield musical chairs will start. Tony and others mention Lowell as the odd man out, but my money is on Youk being sent out.
Youk has a greater market, younger, not FA eligible for a couple of years. The Sox could get more back, maybe even an everyday catcher and not give up a member of the kiddie corp.
Just a thought
I think that they need him. While they were that close to going to another WS, the Sox were seriously running out of gas at that time. Also, there was no great hitter this year compared to teams like the Rays or the Angels, so Tex can really do the job. I've enjoyed Mike Lowell, but I think he'd be first to go. Otherwise, I wonder if they would consider having Mike as the reserve for 1st/3rd/DH type role (obviously if he'd approve that). This way he doesn't hurt himself as much and can still be an impact in the clubhouse and for the team.
Remember what Theo said "We can't compete dollar for dollar with the Yankees", if the Yankees want Tex they will get him. When it comes to getting a player only with money, no one beats the Yankees, no one!
Nobody......repeat.........NOBODY is worth that much money.
This is easy. You move Youk to LFput Drew in CF(make Ellsbury your 4th OF'd since they just traded Coco) and put Bay in RF
Line up would look like this.
1-Pedroia
2-Youk
3-Ortiz
4-Tex
5-Drew
6-Bay
7-Lowell
8- Lowrie
9- Tek
Pretty nasty line up to me
It's hard for me to think of a player like Lowell, who epitomizes sportsmanship and the team concept that the Sox so value, being just discarded. His contribution to this team is beyond statistics. The thought of playing him at 2nd, moving Pedroia to SS and having Youk at 3rd is enticing. Having seen Teixeira play for Atlanta, he is everything that you would want. He hits for average, power and has a good obs. He's a great infielder. He would work well with the Sox. But giving up Lowell, I just don't know. Those intangibles. Players like Lowell, and Marty Barrett have them. It's more than the numbers it's the person and their overall contribution.
Red Sox fans are morons.
If Boston wants him, Mazz is right. They will do what is necessary to get him. I don't know if Lowell can play second. Remember Wil Cordero? He was a SS/LF and Boston got him. They had a LF and a SS already, so they said he could play second. Well, he broke his leg trying to turn a double play because he didn't know how to turn it.
Funny to hear folks accuse Massarotti of having a man-crush on Teixeira, then see the blatant man-love for Lowell. Lowell is a good player, but Teixeira is a Great one, a 28yr old who is workign on what could very well be a Hall of Fame career. Youkilis moves to Third base and Lowell gets traded to philadelphia, a team that covets him. To suggest putting Lowell ant2b and Pedroia at SS... ugh, we'd have a pretty weak middle-infield defensively. Moving Drew to CF? My god, have you people ever seen any of these guys play?
The Sox should do everything possible to get Teix .Lowell can be a utility
player;righthanded dh,backup thirdbaseman,play short,maybe second and
even the outfield OR trade him.I like him alot but he is not the hitter Teix is.
Keep in mind Lowell will be coming off surgery and he is a few years older
than Teix.Duquette should have had him way back when,but wouldn't pay the price. .I believe he played in the Cape Cod league when Duquette saw him.
GET HIM.J.Penson, Los Angeles,Ca.
They should have kept Coco. From there package Coco with Clay Buchholz, Jason Bay, Mike Lowell, a middle of the road relief pitcher
traded that package to Cleveland and got Grady Sizemore & Kelly Shoppach back. They'd clear so much room financially, Shoppach is a great hitting catcher, and then they could let Tek go. From there just move Youkilis to 3rd, and everything else is the same.
Hey pooped your pants....I think it is your team the Yankees that pooped their pants this past year. Hey Joe...your a hater; too bad with Tex will win a couple more World Series!
i can't even believe the stuff that you people write. its absurd. Tex is an amazing player with solid power. any team would be dumb to not want him. plus his defense is quite up to par as well. as far as everyone saying that youk will be the odd man out is ridiculous. he is one of the many faces of the red sox. he finished 3rd in MVP voting and has a gold glove and a great bat. lowell is an amazing player as well, but given his age, doesn't have much left. why trade youk who has another 10+ years in him to keep lowell who has maybe 2-3? that doesnt seem realistic. yes, lowell was a world series mvp, but hip injuries are extremely hard to overcome at an older age. youk can move over to third, tex at first and keep pedroia at second, the outfield is fine the way it is and get rid of lugo for someone. lowrie can be an everyday ss as he has excelent hands and his bat will only get better. you can get solid players for lowell and lugo. maybe a cather inon the rise?? think about it before you make bold assumptions based on nothing. become a fan of the game before you're a fan of a team. it will help out your reasoning on baseball...
Money for money, I think I'd rather have Lowell and spend the extra cash on signing D-Lowe (since he'll be close to $20M). He's proven he can play here and has been kicking donkey lately.
As for the argument that their is no one worth that kind of money, think about it... There are only about 1200 people who play major-league ball, out of a country of 300 million people. They are a very rare breed, in a very popular industry - it's supply and demand. There are all kinds of CEOs getting golden parachutes of hundreds of millions of dollars for driving industries into the ground, and I'm willing to bet there are a lot more people able to do that than who have a heavy drop on their 12-6 breaking ball. :O)
Todd-
I use to think that the guys who wanted to move Youk to LF or SS were the biggest dopes out there- but your idea that Lowell could play 2B has brought us to a new low in fan logic. He's old (by baseball standards) and has limited mobility, you don't put a guy like that into the middle of the diamond. Why not just have Ortiz catch while we're at it?
Please People!
I Pooped My Pants is quite the bitch...
Looks like there won't be any need for a bailout plan for MLB players. At least some are doing well while the rest of America suffers.
I Like this,
1-Pedroia
2-Youk
3-Ortiz
4-Tex
5-Drew
6-Bay
7-Lowell
8- Lowrie
9- Tek
First and foremost, the Yankees need pitching. This is going to cost them 40 to 50 million a year easy with Sabathia, Mussina, Burnett, or even Lowe. Now, will the Yankees spend beyond that point remains to be a mystery. I think yes. The Red Sox think tank is planning on pitching within the system on the other hand. The only cost will be prospects to gain a future catcher. Which leaves us to the point. Simply put, the Red Sox will match the Yankees in the Teixeira sweepstakes. The choice will be his and Boras. It will be all about endorsements, testimonials, etc. BTW people will watch baseball on TV. The market will not change too dramatically in these times.
Charlie, you head would spin at how fast Lowell was moved out of town (hello Phillies!) if the sox signed Tex..so I would say *you* are the idiot.
I think it will be a good lineup the red sox should sign TEX/
Who's playing CF if you move Youk to the outfield along with Bay and Drew?
wow! are you all such big fans of Lowell?
He's old ! Hurt! and has a short contract.
Texiera is young great both offensively and defensively.
I say move Youk to third! It is his natural position
give Texeira 8-10 years and good money.
They have been talking about getting him for a few years now
time to pull the trigger and make it happen
I think you have to look at Lowell as either tradable if healthy or a luxury for the remainder of his contract. Health will be a factor somewhere on the 2009 Red Sox roster. By the time Teixeira is 1/3 of the way through his contract, Mike Lowell will be at the end of his career. Look at the Lowell money as you would the Dice K payoff.
I do think that the Sox will get TEX. All these reports that Lowell is healthy again is so they can shop him to another team in early March. wouldn't surprise me at all. Tito loves Mikey, Theo doesn't get attached to players...
Good grief....lets start off with this, Ellsbury is not going to be the 4th outfielder, he will start and will lead off, this is not the same Oconnell/Sullivan/Gorman/Duquette red sox, this is a team run by a general manager that knows speed never slumps, and will never field a team whose lineup is made of lead footed power hitters, the 60s, 70s and 80s are gone...so with Coco gone, Ellsbury starts. Sigining Tex would be a very good move, a younger hitter, who hits for avg, who might come up with Ellsbury on 2nd or 3rd, with the reigning MVP on base as well, he must bat 4th, it will give papi better looks...after the 4th spot you can fill in the blanks, it is all good, , the odd man out here is Lowell, love him, great guy, but the odd man out..with addition of the new reamirez arm in the pen, the sox should focus on first another catcher, then if needed a starting arm in that order...nothing more..
The most important point first: Peter Terry, if you're going to apply for the Globe's sports editor position you're going to have to be careful with your contractions...Throw out the global recession logic, professional sports in our society have never been sensitive to the plight of others because even on the brink of global annihilation we will turn on a ball game...Are we willing to let Pedroia and Youk go in order to secure Teixeira for eight years? Because when their opportunity to become free agents arrive they will command similar dollars, or at the very least hold the Red Sox accountable. Maybe Lars Anderson and the other power studs in the minor leagues are on the near horizon, but the Sox could very well pay for the most luxurious car on the market at the expense of losing the vintage models now under their control. Tie up Pedroia, Paplebon, Lester and Youk first and then talk to me about signing Teixeira for unfathomable dollars. If Tex signs, Youk is gone, is he that much better? Perhaps. Maybe in your fantasy baseball leagues or video games Youk can play short, left, catch or close games, but for very obvious reasons he is limited to the corner positions and possibly left field in Fenway Park, if you are willing to gamble...
More proof tht the red sox wanted manny gone----another white face too replace a black face, appeasing the the lily white red sox nation----also it doesn't take a rocket sciemtist to understand that coco was dumped to get more money for texeira----also crisp will shine in k.c. and "wonder boy" ellsbury will continue to be "flash in the pan" ---- "wonder boy" over crisp is yet another appeasement to the lily white, red sox nation----will someone tell theo and the rest of those white folks that "run" the red sox that an african american was elected president------
Look folks...the Sox will make a major play to get Teixeira. If you haven't noticed he is exactly the type of guy who they will be willing to shell it out for. He's in his prime, hits for average, power, gets on base, plays great D and is a solid clubhouse guy. We need a bat in the middle of our lineup and the timing is right. Youkilis will move to 3rd and occasionally spell Teixeira at 1st and when he does, Lowell will play 3rd. Lowell will be fine with taking a lesser role as a backup third basemen if they can't trade him...but my guess is he platoons for the upcoming year while he gets his hip strength back. My guess is he'll play about 2 out of every 5 games, which means that Youk and Teixeira will play 4 out of every 5. Lowell will also be an invaluable pinch hitter, which with Varitek in the lineup will be imperative. Overall Mazz is right....this is a no-brainer.
Try This;
1-Ellsbury (CF)
2- Pedroia (2B)
3- J.D. Drew (RF)
4- Tex (1B/DH)
5- Ortiz (Lowell against Lefties) (DH/3B)
6- Youk (3B)
7- Bay (LF)
8- Lowrie/TBD (SS)
9- Tek/TBD (C)
Looks pretty feirsome to me, good left/right, high OBS, and ~130 HR in the 3-7 spots in the order. The signing would also enable the Sox to rest Ortiz against lefties (he clearly needs it), or to use him in a package for an A-level catcher. MLB is almost as short on third basemen, as it is on catchers.
Lowell is the more likely candidate to let go, but Youk's value should be through the roof right now, and people are saying Russell Martin might be available...
Everyone calling for Lowell to be traded seems to have forgotten that a trade involves TWO willing teams, and the market for Lowell will be markedly smaller than the market for Youkilis. This nonsense about Youk being "the face of the team" doesn't appear on Bill James' spreadsheets. It's all about maximizing the value of each player, whether you keep him or trade him.
That said, I would hate to see Youk traded, and would prefer to have him move to third with a Lowell trade. But again, you need a team that will return value in exchange....
I think its important for them to get Tex: Ortiz, even if he comes back healthy this year, is not getting any younger OR more athletic. His contract will also be up in a TWO years (2010 is last year - 2011 is option year for CLUB) and it could be the perfect situation to bring along Lars Anderson. He'll still be very young in 2011, a lefty-power guy, under control for conceivably 4-5 years, and could give them cheap production to offset the Tex (and Youk & Pedroia) big contract(s). He's also a very good fielder, so he signing Tex to a long-term deal won't hurt as much, as towards the end of his deal, you just flip-flop the 2 players at 1B/DH.....
To anyone that says no player is worth that kind of money: Grow up. The sports business is a money business and people are going to get paid. Now, I think signing Texiera would be a great move. We need another big bat (Texiera is 8 years younger than manny and not a cancer) that can knock in Pedroia and Ellsbury. Trading Lowell will be hard but come on people are interested in Julio Lugo so i believe Epstien could trade him.
Not saying Sox should do this, but Bay played LF in Pittsburgh. That LF is like playing CF in most places. Drew could play some in CF and Bay could play RF when/if Jacoby is struggling. Not pushing Youk for left, but this gives Sox more options if Lowell is healthy. Teixeira at 1st is a given if he signs, so Youk could play 3B and LF under this scenario....still think Sox should try to move Papi now while they still can. He will never come close to what he once was and his DH slot is dead weight. Sox could even alternate the above players at DH and play Jacoby. Ortiz would at least get a decent pitcher in a trade. Teixeira is special....Sox HAVE to sign him.
Question is will Mike Lowell be healthy to start the year. Was Ortiz just hurt or has he lost some power? Is Youk going to keep up his pace from last year? I am all for getting Teixeira. Worry about playing time in April. They job is to make your team better than it was.
keep dreaming clown -- no tex for the red sox
they cant afford him
Sign Texiera. He is the Manny replacement we need at the plate. The lineup would be legendary.
As for who plays where, I actually like Todd's thought: - Tex 1B, Youk 3b, Ped SS, Lowell 2nd.
Also, I am sure that SOMEONE will have an injury on the Sox during the year. We had 4 everyday outfielders last year that covered 3 positions quite well. You could do the same with Youk, Lowell, Papi and Lowrie having them cover 3rd, SS and DH.
Thank you finnfann for finally making a couple fans look smart not only is youk not an outfielder to think that mike lowell can play 2b is just as dumb. stop making sox fans look dumb
id love to see youth come into our lineup, but i really dont see texiera coming to the redsox... you make some awsome points though, your are great at what you do Mr. Maz. My only counter-arguement is this sounds so much like A-rod, minus the public interest the sox showed.. and maybe thats where you have the counter argument sealed... but i feel that no matter what this has gotten way to publicized, and as we know what happened with the arod deal, it was the biggest news in new england and around the country, and it fell right through, im getting that same feeling here... time will tell. i think its a little over stated to say tex is youth as well.. i mean hes 28 years old, by the time his supposed contract were to be up, he'd be 33 or older, depending on the years given. this concerns me as mike lowell is in a similar situation... and now all of a sudden people are willing to trade him after everything hes given to us... its been only one season, and when he was in the lineup he was a force, but we have bailed on him because of his injury... which is cleraly healable.
I keep hearing the same thing if we get Tex, Lowell or Youk, Lowell or Youk. How about moving Ortiz, he will get you a better return than Lowell and creates a spot for Lowell if his hip is still bad. Or at the very least a platoon spot for any of the three.
why not do this:
1b. TEX
2b. YOUK
SS. PEDROIA ( young, got range, strong arm, fast, knows the game beyond years)
3B.LOWELL
C. ? (do we want to pay that much for a gimme out in thr line up?)
LF. BAY C. ELLS RF. DREW
sounds good to me and keep lowrie like hoe we had cora!
Please, stop with the nonsense of moving Lowell to 2B, Youk to OF, Pedroia to SS, etc., etc. Flat out ridiculous.
Why spend all that money if the Rays are going to repeat anyway?
Trade Papi, Bucholtz & Lugo to Texas for a Catcher and SS- McDonald. Sign Tex for whatever he wants. Four Gold Glovers in the infield!
Mike Lowell took less to stay with the red sox, so now if you trade him the loyalty factor that mgnt. talks about will never be a factor again from anybody and there will also be no one taking a lower home town offer. Theo should neve expect that again. Remember arroyo. That said the team will do whatever they want any way.
Myth #1: the Sox would think about trading Youk. For his production, versatility, and defense, at $380k he is not going anywhere.
If the sox get Texiera, Lowell will probably be traded.
All the negative posts here are anxious Yankee and Angels fans. Yankees fans afraid the Yankees won't have C.C., Burnett and Texiera by spring training, and Angels fans afraid there is no way they will beat the sox in the near future with the departure of both K-Rod and Texiera
YOUK must stay!
Just do it ....go get him!! Even though it might cause some confusion with the Lowell and Youkilis thing....we would trade Lowell and move Youkilis at 3rd. RED SOX SIGN TEX!!
wow, some people who post here have no idea what is going on...Lowell to 2B? are you serious?
whatever happened to good pitching beats good hitting? Yes, the Sox need a bigger bat in the middle of the order. But who would you rather have? CC or Texiera? Sox were one game away from going back to the WS with a hurt Papi, no Lowell and a dysfunctional Manny for 3/4 of the season. Get Burnett and Sabathia, plug them in with Beckett, DiceK and Lester. A healthy Papi and Lowell and you're back in the WS.
I hope all other MLB teams fold and the Yankees and RedSox just play each other 162 times a year. With a salary cap the Sox and Yankees would be just like any other team. Their fans are losers who only identify them because they can overspend to win.
Ok, keep the Dodgers, Angels and the two Chicago teams I guess as well, but that's it.
Dont worry sox fans, theo is going to go out and get a.j burnett and teix then we will be back in the world series. Yankees suck they always think that money will solve evarything. Not in todays game of baseball RED SOX:2009 world champs!!!!
JIM EDMONDS........he would make a great 4th OFer
Lowell or Youk playing 2nd??!!! Do you know how painful it would be to watch one of them ranging for a ball up the middle? Unless MLB decides to put lead in a baseball, keep dreaming. I do agree that the line up has a gaping hole in it, and Tex would drop in nicely. What a luxury, sign a player of his magnitude and worry about everything else in spring training. Keep an eye on Papi, big men don't last long in baseball (think Mo Vaughn) and this could be the beginning of the slide. Lowell would become very valuable. Ortiz/Lowell lefty/righty DH possibilities. Go Sox!
Keep Youk, Tex and Lowell. Trade Ortiz to an american league team that needs a DH.
With the beginning of the Great Depression and the collapse of the economy, these dollar numbers sound like madness. Already the largest advertiser on the
Super Bowl isn't going to be buying any ads this year (GM). Who do we think is going to be paying for these salaries?
If they sign TEX. They will trade Lowell. There is no way they will trade Youk. They will move him to 3rd base ans pay him Lowell type money when it's due to him. They will have negotiating power with Youk because of the type of money they paid Lowell. The one thing I think they should do is if they trade Lugo away and Get Robertson or Willis is then package a deal to Cleveland to get back Shoppach. Sign V tek to a short term deal and give Shppach tome to catch up with the staff. Also they are not going to make Youk a DH. His glove is way to valuable. Also for those of you that Think Pappi is done your wrong he was injured all year last seaon. The line up will be as follows.
1 Jocoby
2 Peddy
3 TEX
4Pappi
5 Youk
6 Bay
7 Drew
8 Lowerie
9v Tek
Pitching will be
Becket
Burnett
Dice K
Lowe
Wake
Then they will have one of the most versitile bull pens in the majors
Here's the signing that would pay huge dividends - Sign Orlando Hudson for second base and move Pedroia to his natural short stop position. Fantansic defense, with huge offensive upgreat for middle infield totals - we could make many worse moves than that !
Tex is no Manny.
He, and everyone else, will always be second tier compared to what we had - the greatest right handed hitter in mlb history.
You can fit them all into the lineup..........Youk is such a great ballplayer, let him go to shortstop, then keep Lowell at third...........Texiera at first..........gives you a modern murderers row lineup...........
Pedroia - Youkilis - Ortiz - Texiera - Drew - Lowell - Bay - Varitek - Elsbury
Yeah I think we need to keep Tek...He's past his divorce, and all we need is for him to hit around .255 - .260..Elsbury 9th acts as a second leadoff guy in front of the MVP...PS YANKEE FANS ...Please make the playoffs before getting onto this site. There's something else you can do to relieve frustration...Go do it.
I cant believe they let half of you idiots out of the nuthouse to post here! First to "bluesboy" who wants to bring Manny back. How fucking retarded are you? The man quit on his teammates, attacked Youlekis in the dugout, assaulted a 65 year old traveling secretary, and faked injuries for time off. Nobody wants that idiot back to ruin the chemistry they built in the second half last year.
Now to the idiots who say you can't have 4 players for 3 positions, obviously if Boston signs Texeira, they will trade Mike Lowell! There are plenty of teams willing to pick him up because his contract is short term.
Now onto Babz53. Are you on crack? Mike Lowell is getting OLD! He broke down last year, and as players get older they become MORE injury prone, not less! Texeira is a switch hitter, which is huge because it affects opponents bull pens late in the game. I like Lowell, but we rewarded him for his play with a big money deal, and if we can get Texeira, it's time to move Lowell. The only time you ever move a player like Mike is if you can upgrade your team...and Boston is a better team with Texeira at 1st and Youk at 3rd than with lowell at 3rd and youk at 1st. Now to Paul, the biggest idiot of them all. Get Texeira AND CC? LMAO How fucking retarded are you? You can't outbid the Yankees for both players, and you will be LUCKY just to pluck 1 away. If Boston wanted CC, it would cost 150 million over 6 years and 200 over 8 for Texeira. You would have NO MONEY LEFT to sign Youkelis and Pedroia to extensions because when they are free agents, they will get HUGE offers! If we signed both, and reupped Pedroia and Youk, our payroll would baloon to over 200 million a year within 2 years! Then Ellsbury will be eligible for arbitration as well. You gonna let him go too? LOL
Sign Texeira, move Youk to third, trade Lowell to Philadelphia for bullpen help or catching prospect. Texeira IS the second coming....of Manny, only without the flakiness and defensive liability. I love his quiet intensity and focus on every pitch. Bat him behind Ortiz.
A lot of the people who want to move everyone around on defense must think this is a little league team, where you can just call in the left fielder to be the relief pitcher in the middle of the third inning. I understand you are trying to think creatively. Nice job on that. But to think that Youk, or Lowell is going to be your second baseman is sorta laughable to most of us. Youk is a corner infielder of gold glove caliber. He is not going to be an outfielder or a secondbaseman in this universe. Lowell has nothing like the defensive tools needed to be a middle infielder. Has he been a great third baseman for most of his career...absolutely. But that does not translate in any way that means he could even be a decent second baseman. Stop all of this nonsense. If Texeira gets signed. Mike Lowell will get traded.
Were the Red Sox caught up in emotion when they signed Lowell after the 2007 World Series? I somehow doubt it. They knew then Tex was coming to the market this year. They've had a plan in place for this winter all along. We just have to sit back and watch it unfold. We know just as much as Mazz as we all ride the speculation bus!!!!
Your Tag line should read:
MOUSE MAN
Arrogant Bitter Spiteful
Can you be any more condescending? No wonder I don't usually read your crap. You are such a TOOL!
I think the Red Sox will just drive up the price for Texiera and the Yankee's will sign him. The more they spend on him, the less they have for other positions.
I thought I read somewhere last year, or the year before, that he wouldn't want to come to Boston. I also heard some stories from Atlanta that he was disrepectful to his Atlanta team mates after being traded to LAA. Don't need that type of pompous attitude in the locker room, if true.
AJ/Texiera to Yankees, Lowe/Varitek back to Sox on shorter contracts.
how about when people leave comments, they talk about the sox? forget the size of Mazz's name in the title screen. Do you really care about the spelling errors? GET OVER IT. This is for baseball talk, not grammar talk. And that jerk who is spouting racist epithets? Screw. GO SOX.
If these things be true,maybe the Sox are going at in the wrong way.....Maybe they should be persueing a premiere pitcher who has similar value.No sense going against these guys....But,Boston could BID HIM UP,DROP OUT,THEN GO GET A BIG STARTER.Mike Lowell is more than an option here,providing he's healthy........What about Lars Anderson.....he'll be ready,maybe,sometime this season,after tuning up in AAA Ball..There are other options available.No sense in going to crazy here.Near the end of 2009,there will be deals to be made to make a run at the pennant,wild card....So,maybe,let's get a big arm for the hill
Teixeira is looking for a long term deal with no history in the American League. He hit 33 HR's last year- only 13 of them for August and Sept.which was after his trade. His BA at night for 109 games/400 AB was only .268 with 70 SO. 48 day games/174AB he batted .402. 8-10 years is what Boras has suggested at over 20 million. He will be an "old' 34 -36 years at the end.If you If you have to eat 5-8 million of 'old' 34 year old Lowell's contract for the next 2 years, that puts the cost of Teixeira at about 30 million give or take a million. I don't think anyone is worth that- not even the second coming.
Looks like Washington is going to land Tex. He hails from that area and money isn't everything to him.
The crack I'm apparently on, courtesy of Brady, has affected my math skills. Teixeira will actually be 36-38 at the end of the contract. Thank goodness he will be unaffected by the ravages of aging. Injuries happen at any age any time.
do you guys watch baseball or are you blind We have Ellsbury Pedroia Youk Ortiz Lowell Drew Bay Lowrie and Tek where does texiera go?oh move youk to third and trade/get rid of mikey lowell not gonna happen we paid to much money for lowell to get rid of him trade him which team wants a player who just had surgery on his hip no team unless they are sure he can play after surgery...Move him to the outfield yes move or gold glove firstbasemen to left..what about bay right jd drew there is no place to put tex unless you trade youk but look at the numbers youk had just a good a season and past seaons as tex
Texeira will not be a Red Sox. I highly doubt he will end up in NY either.
Both Boston and NY have players aplenty to fill in at 1B both already in the MLB and waiting in the minors.
IF the Yankees are to go gangbusters, they will overspend and end up with a dominant top 3-4 for their rotation. As mentioned previously, Posada and Matsui have them handcuffed at the DH position. Filling 1B with Tex will WASTE their offensive contributions. Obviously, neither player is there for their huge DEFENSIVE contributions!
The yankees would need a miracle to find any trade partner for Matsui or Posada unless they pay for the bulk of their salaries.
Buying TWO top pitchers, Texeria, and PAYING for Matsui/Posada to leave is even beyond any level of fiscal irresponsibility any yankee hater could dream up.
While not AS crazy, to bring Texeria to Boston would immediately force a trade of Lowell or Ortiz and ultimately force a trade of Youk or Lars Anderson. All the while depleting the entire red sox spare payroll for years to come.
How much value would truly be added?
Tex makes the most sense for LAA or the Nats or any other team where a big name can fill seats. NY and Boston are the LAST places that need to fill seats. There will be little to no side revenue added by him so his real value is LOWER for Boston and NY.
BTW, what % of base stealers could Papi throw out? j/k
Tony,
In a later post, can you explain in greater detail why you are glad the Manny for A-Rod deal failed? Is it because Manny was a part of two World Series Champions? Or is it because A-Rod is not well liked and is viewed as less than championship material?
If it is the former, you have a fair point. We'll never know what the Sox would have done with one subtraction and one addition. If it is the latter, I respectfully disagree. Even without the evidence of the past year, I find it hard to believe that Manny is a better teammate than A-Rod
If the Red Sox fail to get Teixeira, they can always go after Manny Ramirez as the consolation prize right??? Uhhh, nope!......Let's face it. The Yankees have all the power in the world right now over the Red Sox and are probably laughing about it. The Yankees have a CHOICE and can take a shot at EITHER Teixeira or Manny. The Red Sox have their backs against the wall and are in the unfortunate position of only having one choice, Teixeira or nothing. If the Yankees want, they could drive the price on Teixeira up so high that the Red Sox will be looking under the seat cushions for more money.
How could anyone suggest trading Youk at this point? Are you a Yankee fan?
If the Red Sox don't sign Teixeira, the team has virtually no chance to make the playoffs next year. If the Yankees don't sign Teixeira, no sweat. The Yankees can just sign Manny Ramirez in case they can't get Teixeira. The Yankees don't just have money, they have choices. Something the Red Sox just don't have.
Don't be surprised when Teixeira signs with Washington. He wants to play close to home and he's from this area. Our GM Jim Bowden and Team President, Stan Kasten are keeping uncharacteriscally quiet about him which means they have something up their sleeves!
babz, did you really say that Teixeira has "no history in the American League"? You're aware, aren't you, that he came up with Texas and was traded to Atlanta only in 2007, right? How is it possible that any fan of the Sox can be so clueless about the rest of the league?
Now that I know that all the confident opinions you've been spouting here about what the Sox should do this winter are all based on ignorance, I'll be careful to give them the weight they deserve.
Tex would be a huge plus for the lineup next spring, whether we wind up keeping Mike Lowell and Kevin Youkilis or not. But if Philly really is interested in Lowell, we might be able to kill two birds with one stone and try to expand the deal to include Lou Marson, the Phillies' top catching prospect.
William... you forgot Jon Lester as one of our pitchers. That, and this Burnett stuff is junk. There's no way they're going to cough up the cash to sign a guy that has only had good years in contract years.