Dirty call
Sports fans don’t normally root for an injury, at least the old mantra goes.
Of course, the well-being of an athlete is still a foremost concern, even for the most reasonable, if still devout, patrons of the game. But perhaps knowing their enemies all too well, New Englanders shouldn't be all that surprised over what happened yesterday in Manhattan when Tom Brady’s knee buckled under the pressure of Bernard Pollard.
Fans reacted with glee.
At least, that’s the word at the ESPN Zone in Times Square, where a New York Times editor was watching yesterday’s Chiefs-Patriots game. When Brady went down, “Most of the people in the restaurant roared with delight.”
Ah, New York. Just oozing with sportsmanship. Here’s a sampling of comments from that same entry on the Times’ Fifth Down blog:
“No one showed any sympathy for him, myself included. It couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.”
“You better believe I’d have joined in. I cheered in the comfort of my own vehicle. That smug schmuck and his cheating coach deserve some comeuppance.”
“I would’ve danced on the tables if I had been there.”
“Any other team, no way, but you better believe I cheered…”
Now, compare those remarks with those made in say, Indianapolis, Miami, Denver, and, really, even Oakland, where seemingly more rationale football fans seemed to process Brady’s possible loss for the entire season with at least some sense of class.
In New York, they celebrate.
Before you chalk this up as Jets and Giants fans puffing their chests out in a display of team bravado there was also celebration further up the Evil Empire state. In Buffalo, when it was shown on the JumboTron, Bills fans cheered the sight of Brady limping off the field. Stephen Brunt of the Toronto Globe and Mail writes, “[It] might not be nice, or sportsmanlike, but is the kind of thing that happens when two sure losses on your schedule suddenly don't look quite so sure, when a division that was out of reach might suddenly be up for grabs.”
True. You can understand the layer of uncertainty that just got peeled off the seasons of the Jets, Dolphins, and Bills, making its way clear to Foxborough where it hovers over a normally sound and secure Gillette Stadium. But it’s also the kind of thing that happens when fans know their team isn’t good enough and has to root for a hit to a star’s physical nature.
The Jets are all of a sudden the favorites (the favorites) in Sunday’s showdown at the Meadowlands, New England’s first trip there since wrapping up its 16-0 season last December; its first trip there to play the Jets since Eric Mangini busted Spygate open into our midst. All of a sudden, Jets fans are looking at Brett Favre as their QB and Matt Cassel as the Patriots’ starter and thinking, “Why not?”
Are they now the favorites in the AFC East? If we have to kick the Pats out of the equation (which frankly I refuse to do in a league that has given us backups you might remember like Brady, Kurt Warner, Jeff Hostetler, etc.) I’d be more apt to look at the Bills as possible contenders for a crown that normally resides in New England. But there is now hope in three more cities, perhaps in a few more if you want to include the likes of Indianapolis and San Diego.
So, if promising prospects are good for more teams, isn’t that good for the game?
That’s a fine line, and when it comes to season-ending ACL/MCL injuries to the MVP, the answer has to be no. More teams have a shot now, but at the expense of losing the best quarterback in the game (on a clean hit, by the way). At least the Giants raised Lombardi by busting through the front door, tossing the keg down a flight of stairs, and announcing that the party was over.
Everybody else now gets to hope the Pats are weaker without Tom Brady, which, let’s face it, they are. But what are we talking here? They were 16-0 a season ago, yet looked like a 9-7 team yesterday against Kansas City. The 2001 Patriots were 1-3 to kick off their Super Bowl campaign. Does 10-6 win the division, and if so, does Cassel have enough in him for a 10-6 season?
So much for the Chiefs denying us any intrigue in the season-opener. Unlike 2007, when week-to-week almost simmered to boring blowouts, there is now fascination every seven days with these Patriots, who have the opportunity to prove just how deep and talented they are without the most talented signal-caller in the game.
And the guess here, at least, is that they won’t be celebrating for long in New York.
Well, Cris Collinsworth was barely able to contain his glee on NBC at halftime last night.
Being a fan of both the Giants and the Red Sox (no, I am no a band wagon fan, just brought up in a house where we rooted for the Giants), hearing that peolpe in NY cheered when Brady got hurt makes me feel the same way as when I hear Sox fans chant "Yankees Suck".
Grow up, and stop acting like morons....
I may not like Brady or the Patriots, but you have to respect what they have accomplished and how consistently good they are, and cheering when someone gets hur isn't right. Acting like that is very disappointing......
I was at a bar in Manhattan watching the game yesterday wearing my Brady jersey, and there was plenty of cheering when he went down, mostly by Jets fans. As I was walking back to my apartment, one overly joyous (presumably) Jets fan went so far as to stop his car on first avenue and hang out the window and yell "Hey, what happened to Brady?" while laughing. Really? So we're cheering injuries now? I can't wait til Favre throws his 4th pick next sunday, when I just might gleefully ask the bar "Hey, what happened to Favre?"
10-6 to take the division isn't as simple as it appears - not with six games within the division. Remember, every Pats loss in the division is a win for one of those three teams. The games don't happen in a vaccuum.
They can definitely make it to the post-season but to do so, those 6 losses better not all be to their division rivals. Because 10-6 could easily be second place to an 11-5 Jets or Bills team. There are no guarantees...
I watched the game at a restaurant in Lake Mary, Florida, which is near Orlando. It has 30 TV's showing all the games. When Brady got hurt all the Dolphin fans, Jets fans, Tampa Bay Buc fans, Jacksonville Jaguar fans, and probably others, stood and cheered, yelled and clapped theri hands as if their team had just won the Super Bowl on the last play of the game. It was kind of sad, with a man in obvious pain, and these morons are cheering. I guess it is to be expected when it is really the only hope these fans have of theri team beating the Pats, and all the vent up anger at being manhandled all these recent years.
the only good news is that all 3 Florida teams lost again on opening day..just like last year. Now if only the Jets could have lost.
How many times have I screamed for the Pats' D to break Peyton Manning's legs? Or Eli's, for that matter. But then the "better angels of my nature" take hold. A victory over a team decimated by injuries is a hollow one. Talk about asterisks.
I thought the hit was clean until I saw some alternate angles not shown on CBS. A shot from the opposite sideline sure makes it look like the guy was aiming his helmet towards Brady's knee. And we've all heard the talk about how badly everyone outside of Patriot Nation have wanted Brady taken out.
I'm just sayin'....
What can you expect from the lowest class people in America..They stayed true to form..They may have the best city but but they will always have no class...Maybe the Jets can win now...can't wait till the moans when the PATS still beat them with a backup...meanwhile hows the Skankees doing..oh thats right..not going to the playoffs LOL
Yea, wow. Thats completely and utterly pathetic. I didn't know damaging injuries to star players in sports was the "in thing to do" nowadays. You know if A-Rod or Brett Favre or any other star athlete in NY took a brutal hit and damaged his knee like that and New Englanders were laughing and crap like that they would be the first to respond with anger.
Everyone who cheered...congrats on making yourself one of the unhumane azzes in the country. And you wonder why there's no much hate in the world...take a look at yourself. Your contributing
I am not going to give up on a team with Richard Seymor, Randy Moss, Mike Vrabel, Vince Wilfork, Wes Welker, Rodney Harrison and Lawrence Maroney. I think this group will push the rest of the Patriots to superhuman efforts and Bill and the coaching staff will find a way to win. If they somehow get out of Giant stadium next week with a win, oh how sweet would that be?
Typical New York TRASH...but would we expect anything better from them? NOPE
If Matt Cassell is even a little bit competitive, all this sniping gas to rile him up. I think we can all rest assured that the bulletin board at Gillette will be quite full this week. I really hope that all this negative press is like wrecking Jefferson's Camaro.
The Jets get to play the role of Lincoln High.
Brady's hurt, New Yorkers are cheering, Palin is being considered by some as a legitimate VP candidate.
Hurts to say it, but America sucks.
NY sports fans in general have always been loud-mouthed poor sports (win or lose). It's no shock to learn they cheered Brady's injury.
Too bad all that post 9/11 New Yorker change in attitude (being friendly) towards others didn't stick....
Hey Patriots fans - Get lost! You have some of the most disgusting fans in all of sports who cheer at every injury. You just don't get it, do you? Brady with that arrogant smirk on his face brings on fan wrath outside of boston. Just try to convince me that Boston fans are sweet, lovable people. Get real!
I'm a hardcore Pats fan, but when I saw Pennington get hurt either last year or the year before, I was saddened. Just like what Ryan said, typical New York TRASH, just visit NYC and interact w/ the people and you'll see what we're talking about, low class dirty trashy people....
I have to admit, I probably would have done the same thing 5 years ago if Jeter had been injured.
there was a bounty out on Brady, likely paid for by people like Collinsworth, who showed his true nature last night by grinning wildly while describing the injury. He ought to be pulled off of the air, he's such an ass. I'm willing to put my life on it that someone collected cash for that hit and that there was and always will be that seamy underside to this game. Shame on the offensive line; you lost the superbowl and now you lost your quarterback. Get in Shape, stand up like men and GET IT BACK! time to buck up buttercups.
I love the fact that Beantown fans are now all up in arms. Some dopes cheer. Others do not. I find it hard to believe that if a competing athlete went down in a big way, some BlowSox, Patsie fans wouldn't be happy?" Get real. The in your face gloating and all out trash talking has people all over the country wishing bad things not for the team but for the completely obnoxious fans that think their S$it dont stink...kinda like Yankee fans
Hey Peter Incarcerone- Just because Brady's name is spoken among names such as Tiger, Michael (Jordan and Phelps), or Wayne doesn't make him arrogant. In fact, he is one of the true class acts in all of sports. I hope you realize that your Jets or Giants will still be in third place- not good enough for anything but a huge waste of money and a bunch bitter classless New York fans
The difference between NY sports fans and fans in the rest of the country is that the typical NY sports fan is an uneducated ignoramous. They are sick and perverted people unfortunately. But these are fans that cheered when their own QB, Chad Pennington, once left the game with a serious shoulder injury. Is anything more pathetic than that ?
Other than the referee driven and lucky win in the last Super Bowl, NY has been a bastion of losers for nearly the last decade. So it seems that their fans have gotten desperate.
NY fans don't deserve any good fortune whatsoever. They are slime, complete and uttler scumbags that deserve nothing. It's really a shame that one of the greatest cities on the planet has to be saddled with morons like that.
I've never rooted for an opposing player's injury in my entire life. Nor have I celebrated one. I realize that a championship only holds meaning if you beat the best. Any team that wins the AFC will know they didn't have to beat the best this season. But these people cheer and celebrate an injury to the best player in the NFL which only serves to show how truly stupid they are.
NY fans have reached a new low even for them.
But they need to remember, what goes around comes around.
His Injury reminds me of the end of Terell Davis. Being a Bronco fan I can understand what you Pats fans are goin through. Davis was the reigning leauge MVP and in the next season he had a career ending injury. Only people in New York would have this kind of sympathy. Just remember Jet fans that there is such thing as karma and your new quarterback is probaly the most old and fagile player on the field right now, so I would watch what you cheer about.
New Yorkers wanna talk about smug smirks...give me a break....people from NY are the most arrogant people on earth. They are also the most ignorant sports fans around.
Well when you come from these other "classy" cities and cheer for awful football teams I guess they would be happy to see one of the best QB's in the history of the game go down. The Bills, Jets and the rest of the league should remember though that Defense wins games and we also have the 2 of the best wideouts in the league as well as a good running game. What will be their excuse when they lose to the Pats with Cassell at the helm? Don't get too excited yet you class acts.
Cheering for injuries is not cool. I did it once when I was a kid and promptly got a lickin' from my older brothers. May the best man/team win.
Can someone provide a fact-based argument as to the potential impact of TB not working out as much during the offseason?
I lived in NY for 13 years as Boston sports fan. I remember when Testaverde tore his achilles the first game of the season. I felt bad for the guy, but couldn't help feeling better about the Pats chances. It seems that NY fans can't react in that type of manner. I have watched many a game and heard my friends scream at the tv to break Brady's legs..... Remember NY fans, Karma is a b.tch!
This is disgusting to hear. I am one of the biggest sports fans you will ever meet & I hate all of my teams rivals, but to cheer when someone from the opposing team gets injured, thats just sick. Being a Pats fan, I remember feeling horrible when Pennington went down. You think about how much work these guys do to get ready for the season, etc., & its just sad it is all taken away in a matter of seconds. Get well soon Tom, the REAL fans are with you & the team no matter what!
Will Boston ever have anything better to do than to cry about New York? Your inferiority complex is bigger than Manhattan, its really pathetic, get a life losers.
Karma..Cheating all those years, getting caught, losing a gut wrenching Superbowl where it ripped your hearts out is so pleasing to most other fans in the NFL. Dirty hit? Ask Rodney Harrison if he thought it was dirty. I bet Kevin Faulk wishes he never tried to go to that concert now. Patriot fans are in for a long season now. All of a sudden your defense just got a lot older. It's not hard to play from 14 points a head everygame. Over the next 15 games they will grow tired and 9-7 will be this years destiny..Look for me Sunday 11-30 6 rows back in the endzone...This year Anthony Smith's prediction will come true.
GUARANTEE!!!
I really don't believe we should classify ALL NY fans as trash, etc. I'm sure there are plenty who are not rejoicing in Brady's injury. And, I am sure that there are NE fans who would take pleasure in seeing ARod get hurt. When are we going to give up on the "Yankees S*CK" mantra??
And, to the fans who say Brady/Belichick are cheats, blah blah blah. That's why NE won 18 games last season AFTER SPYGATE happen. Please explain that?
As much as I hate Indy, if Manning went down, I would definitely NOT rejoice as I have the utmost respect for him as an athlete and he (as well as Brady) makes football games INTERESTING. Let's face it, we watch the games for its intensity and competitive nature. Great quarterbacks bring that to the table.
I believe cheering for any season-ending injury on any player on any team is immature and usually comes from fans who are half-witted to begin with.
It is karma...karma for SpyGate, Wilfork's elbow 2 Losman's knee, and HGHarrison. Couldn't happen to a more deserving franchise.
AMF!!!! DONE!!!!
Cheering for an injury is barbaric regardless of the hometown of the player or the fan. I understand wishing for a bruise or two but how can anyone, anywhere applaud a season (career?) ending injury to one of the all time greats. This sadly demonstrates all that is wrong with sports and this country.
Let's not forget, the Jets fans cheered last season when their OWN qb got hurt so they could see Pennington crawl off the field to make way for Clemens. This is not a classy group, to say the least.
Mark Schlerath and Mike Wilbon both called for other teams to intentionally injure Brady last year on air at ESPN. All ESPN, NY and Boston Media outlets have been banging the drum for something bad to happen to the Patriots for well over a year. They got what they wanted.
I too, noticed the glee expressed by Chris Collinsworth and Bob Costas every time the topic of Brady's injury came up. They couldn't contain their smiles. Disgusting... all of them. Also, can someone explain how this hit below the knee was any different than the "dirty" hit by Wilfork last year? The best player in the NFL is lost to injury from a low hit and there is no outrage? Just smiles?
Boston fans , you are the biggest hypocrites I have ever witnessed. First off, the fans weren't cheering Brady getting hurt. They were cheering because, the Pats thumbed their noses at good sportsmanship so Brady could run up scores last season, and, Belichick got caught cheating. Karma came back around FINALLY, that's what all the cheering was about. What goes around comes around, and it finally came around. Yin meets Yang...Get the picture. It wasn't Bradys pain everybody was reveling in....IT WAS YOURS!!! Every time you cry "dirty hit" and call for a fine, I think about Willie McGinnist faking an injury against the Colts. Every time you show disgust for people cheering Bradys injury, I think of the way the Pats ran it up against the Skins last season. All of the "little" things the Pats have gotten away with for years have finally come home to roost, and we are loving it!!! GO KARMA!!!
The New Jersey Jets Fans
Always a class act
shane
go look @ youTube - Vilfork intentionally threw his elbow @ Losman's knee - there is not other conclusion you can draw when you look at the play.
The KC safety was already going for the tackle on Brady and was partially blocked into him.
If you honestly think there is no difference between the two plays, you are a homer incapable of honest debate.
The footage of Brady being hit by Pollard didn't appear to me to be a cheap shot. That is until I saw footage from the opposite sideline. I'm now of the opinion Pollard targeted the area near his knee. This is an area all players know is off limits.
As a New Yorker and a Patriots fan since 1986, I take offense at the comment that we're all ignorant and cheer with glee at an opponents injury. Some of us just don't know how to act like we've been there...
Anyone who would not cheer Jeter breaking a leg can cast the first stone.
That's what I thought. No stones.
Somewhere, Michael Wilbon is smiling...
Well, time to focus on the job at hand. Pats still have a lot of weapons. Time to commit to running the ball, playing defense, killing the clock, etc. Here's BB's chance to get back to what the Pats used to do before they got caught up in trying to score 50 pts a game. Won't win SB w/out TB, but can still win 10 games & make the playoffs. Not what we were hoping for, but, to quote the coach 'it is what it is'.
If you cheer for Brady being hurt, you've got no class. If you cheer for anyone being hurt, you've got no class. But saying it's ok to cheer because Boston fans might, MIGHT do the same thing if A-Rod or Jeter went down? Spare us the pitiful justifications of your classless behavior.
I wouldn't count the Pats out completely just yet. Remember when Bledsoe went down, and the unknown Brady took over? Nobody had ever heard of him, and look what happened. Not saying Cassel will do the same thing for sure, but you never know. The Patriots thrive on adversity and love being counted out. It gives them motivation. And don't forget they have the easiest schedule in the league this year. We shall see...
Blah blah blah, waah waah waah. I suppose the fans in '86 were just being cordial and helpful when the death threats came in to Bob Stanley and Bill Buckner after the Sox blew yet another WS title. Boston fans are just as bad as any other in the country. The biggest problem with them is that with their new found success comes new found arrogance and bluster. "We rule, you suck" "You say something bad, you're jealous" Sox fans have a long history of being jealous of the Yankees and until '94 they couldn't beat them if their life depended on it and it nagged at them incessently.
"Can someone provide a fact-based argument as to the potential impact of TB not working out as much during the offseason?"
I'm not sure we Pats fans would be as gracious as we say if, let's say, P. Manning was injured in week 1 and out for the season. The Jets don't matter because they suck, anyhow, so it's not even worth discussing Old Man Favre.
but this:
"Can someone provide a fact-based argument as to the potential impact of TB not working out as much during the offseason?"
I hope this doesn't become the next talking point after all this "cheering the injury" stuff dies down... no amount of off-season training would've prevented that injury from happening, so - PLEASE - let's not go down that road!! It makes Pats fans look ridiculous...
The angle of that hit, the weight of the KC player... that would've taken anyone out. The knee and its ligaments are simply not meant to bend from left-to-right... they're not designed for that. Push 'em enough and something's gonna give.
I'm a Patriot fan (die hard patriot fan). I was watching the game with my Pats Tshirt, the one that has been with me in all three SB wins, and the one that was with me when they lost to Indy in the AFC championship game a couple of years ago, or when they lost to Denver three years ago. funny enough I'm also a New Yorker. I'm very sorry for Brady and for Football, bottom line is that this is a sad day for football. I just hope that my fellow New Yorkers, the ones that cheered on that injury, think of those cheerings when the Jets get eliminated. They will not go far with Brett. And shame on them for rooting on an injury, they should be rooting on TD's scored by their team, not on the best quarterback of our era going down.
P.S. I saw the play and I also think it was a cheap shot at his knee.
A buffett of terms to describe the NY sports fan. And remember, from this buffett is all you can eat:
1) Vile
2) Ignorant
3) Stupid
4) Idiotic
5) Classless
6) Arrogant
7) Delusional
8) Despicable
9) Disgusting
10) Repulsive
11) Nauseating
12) Revolting
13) Sick
14) Perverse
15) Juvenile
16) Scumbags
17) Slimeballs
18) Cockroaches
19) Imbeciles
20) Uneducated
21) Moronic
22) Brainless
23) Half-witted
24) Witless
25) Fatuous
Feel free to add some more menu items.
Cousteau, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The reality is that after the Red Sox blew the '86 World Series, the fans insisted on a parade for the Red Sox and there was a huge turnout and outpouring of support. The day of the parade, the front page of the Herald read "We Love You Red Sox." Buckner some of the loudest cheers of all, including when he returned to Fenway. Check it out. Think anything like that would ever happen in New York or in any other city?
Anyone who applauds a season-ending injury to a marquee player in any sport is an no class low life animal. If the shoe fits, wear it.
Bring on Culpepper. I hope Giselle does not dump Tom now that he is injured.
I agree that it was Jets fans not Giants fans as I was in NY yesterday and Giants fans were consoling me lol. They were pretty cool and were going over their injuries and lamenting how tough football is with knee injuries. Jets fans on the other hand were just idiots. What can you do? I am sure there are red sox fans who get excited when Yankee players go down.I think it is more of a fan issue then a geographical issue
Jets fans cheering a QB injury? Oh, wait - they've done that to their OWN quarterback. Classless morons......
It has been my experience that anyone, no matter where they are from, who cheers an injury to any athelete is a wannabe. Someone who never played anything at a level higher than Little Leauge or Pop Warner. They are usually grown men wearing a numbered jersey with someone else's name on the back.
Anyone who has experienced the intensity of high-level athletic competition understands that it is not life and death. True competitors want to win against the best - that is why they are not afraid to compete.
Dolphin fan here. Red Sox, too. Love Boston sports, hate the Bills and Jets and respect the Pats.
Would never cheer if a Pat got hurt, might now if a key Jet goes down.
They are the most classless, clueless dolts in sports fandom, Hands down. They make Eagles fans look good.
I'll be rooting for Pats on Sunday and a maximum pain for fans meltdown the Jets can suffer this year. They aren't that good and their dopey fans in their tiny little minds know this.
And Sad, Sarah Palin and classless NY fans do not make this country any less great. Get over yourself, that was a silly comment
Brady looked slow and out of sorts for the few minutes he played. Throwing low and holding on to the ball too long. These are rust problems from not playing in the pre-season and not staying in great shape during the off season. Look at the hit that caused the injury; Brady holds onto the ball way too long. He normally zips the ball out before anyone gets too close, then backs away from the rushers.
I hate seeing these kind of injuries (they too aften are career ending) but they happen. Any sports fan that celebrates these kinds of injuries are total idiots-NY fans! I don't see the Patriots making the playoffs without Brady, this year anyway.
Good Luck Tom and get better.
Charger Fan.
I grew up in NY state, and I am now ashamed of where I came from. I am a dedicated Patriots fan, and can honestly say that I have never found any joy in any injury on the football field. I guess we have to understand where it is coming from. The Giants fans knew they got lucky when the Patriots had ONE bad day last year, and that is why they won the Superbowl. Of course they are full of glee seeing Tom Brady hurt, because they KNOW they couldn't get lucky like that two years in a row, and luck is the ONLY way the Giants can win a Superbowl!
Hey I have to say I was laughing when Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes went down (not like it would have mattered much if they were healthy) and laughed hard when they paid ARod 25mil a year.....and laughed when the Yankees paid 5.5 million per win to Pavano and overpaid Jonny "looks live Jesus, throws like Mary, act like Judas" Damon and let Torre go for the disaster managing that team now. I guess it's Karma that Brady went down. 3 Superbowl Rings, a World Chapionship by the C's, the most storied franchise in sports, and 2 World Series Titles in 4 years is just not enough. Let the losers to the south in NY Yuk it up--that's all they have going for them. Well that and a filthy, crime ridden dump of a city.
Well, time to focus on the job at hand. Pats still have a lot of weapons. Time to commit to running the ball, playing defense, killing the clock, etc. Here's BB's chance to get back to what the Pats used to do before they got caught up in trying to score 50 pts a game. Won't win SB w/out TB, but can still win 10 games & make the playoffs. Not what we were hoping for, but, to quote the coach 'it is what it is'.
The Mayor Menino Theory: Menino plans the official Boston victory parade before the Super Bowl (the Giants did not) - to follow: the 18-0 Patriots impossibly lose the Super Bowl and in the next regular season game the rarely injured Brady goes down.
Thank you Ed S. That's what I wanted to hear! (re: off season conditioning)
What do you expect? They cheered when their own QB got hurt last year. Classy is as classy does, Jets fans.
Jets fans need to think about this: Your team was very VERY close to losing to Miami yesterday. And how's your QB depth?
If people cheer an injury, you're all right, they should be ashamed. But it's not the injury that's being celebrated. For so long, teams -- and fans -- in this league have had to deal with an entitled Patriots team that runs up the score, refuses to acknowledge mistakes, condescends to lecture other franchises about the nature of "team" and "winning," all the while smugly holding themselves out to be a cut above the rest. Look, it's a shame that somebody got hurt. Period. If it were a perfect game, no one would. But this...this is the result of hubris, folks. That's why people are cheering. Because the team that has looked down at every other team and has shown no signs of decency or sportsmanship (just ask the 2007 Skins, Bills, Jets, or Dolphins) finally got the wind knocked out of them. Because even the most amazing loss of a Super Bowl in recent memory couldn't do it. Because the rest of the league can look forward to a year without the thought of constantly seeing images of Belichick and his joyless win-bots. Because we cheer when those who hold themselves out to be somehow better than everyone else are snapped out of their self-absorption. It's no joke, people cheered, and that's probably wrong. But they cheered because the PATRIOTS are hurting. Not Tom Brady.
It's ridiculous for anyone to cheer about a player getting injured or to think that karma had anything to do with this. Personally, I prefer to watch a rival like Manning get pressured into a bad game than to see him carted off the field and be unable to compete.
What it is, is unfortunate. I was at the game so I didn't get the benefit of all the different replays, but those I did see led me to believe that it was an unfortunate case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, not a dirty hit. Now we're left to wait and see whether he's gone for the year or not (probably).
But I was a Pats fan through the 2-14, 1-15 years and I'm a Pats fan now. I'm nto ready to throw in the towel. Bills, Dolphins, Jets, you want the division, come try and take it on the field? I still like our team's chances.
Hey Sherry - It ain't the Giants fans that are cheering Brady's injury. Get over the SB loss and on with your life. You call it luck ... most people realize the Pats got outplayed in the SB. Deal with it. As a Giants (and RedSox) fan, I have no grand illusions of a repeat and I find no glee in Brady's injury.
How many of you "fans" chuckled when Ben Roethlisberger wrecked his motorcycle? Hypocrites. I don't feel bad even if it is career ending. He's a millionaire, in the Hall of Fame, won Superbowls, and Giselle. It comes with the territory.
get St. Pierre from Az. Cards. He's behind Warner & Lienart but he's better than that. He was outstanding in Pre-season. Better stats than both, behind 2cd &3rd string o-line.
I'm going to take issue with the widely commented POV that it was a "clean hit". I thought so at first but went back and watched the replay the several times today and changed my mind. I'm not saying he's a dirty player but it WAS a dirty play. Just as Wilfork's was last year. He had no business launching himself from his knees, head down and smashing his helmet into Brady's knee. That's clearly against the rules and there should be a fine.
Okay, so I'm a Giants fan. I'm also a Michigan fan, and a Brady fan from way back who never understood why they kept platooning him with the other Drew (Drew Henson). I would even look for the Pats preseason games that were televised in NYC so I could see and celebrate the 2 or 3 passes poor low-draft-pick Tom would probably ever get to throw. [Glad I was wrong.] But I know I wasn't the only New Yorker who was crushed to see him go down. Fans are fans everywhere, and usually the poor sports are the loudest (and drunkest), so they're the ones who are heard. Mike Francesca, the very New York sports fan of "Miked Up" on NYC TV Sunday nights, opened up with his genuine sadness about the NFL losing one of its greatest stars and how the wind feels to have gone out of the whole season. I can still root for the Pats (they have a couple of Michigan LBs, last time I looked), and wish Brady well.
Before you criticize any New Yorker for cheering Brady's injury, think if you've ever been happy when a key Yankee went down for the count, and then rethink your thinking.
Scumbags root for every team.
As a new yorker (giants fan) i'm upset at Brady's injury and hope it's not as serious as it looks. But if you're going to tell me that a cheer wouldn't go up from a Boston bar if all of a sudden they flashed on the screen that A-Rod broke his leg, you're kidding yourself.
I love this comment:
That smug schmuck and his cheating coach deserve some comeuppance.”
Tom Brady SMUG!! Let's see he has every reason to be. He's young, good looking, has a beautiful girlfriend and he is one of the best QB's the NFL has ever seen, but is he, NO WAY.......
he never holds himself above the team, he does not brag, he gives credit where credit is due. He holds himself responsible in lots of situations where he is not " I threw a bad pass, instead of I threw a great pass and he should have caught that'. He typically does not say a bad thing about anyone. He keeps a very low profile. He keeps his personal life pretty much personal. Most people who know him and talk about him say he's a great guy.
The only thing the guy has done is not marry the mother of his child, and it is amazing how many people have crap to say about that. Geez I'm a single parent and I never married, and I don't hold his decision against him. I know nothing of his personal life and it is none of my business whether or not he married her.
But this idiot who called him SMUG needs to stop doing drugs!!! I guess it's easy to hate someone who seems to have it all....when most of us never will.
50 years of 'the' rivalry has revealed 'the' pattern:
How many N.Y. fans are left if the game seems lost.?
Who boos their own?
Pennington got hurt last year --and Jet fans cheered!!
---: In the end -- this reveals what we have always known.
-------N.Y. Fans have 0 class
Why are so many people saying this is karma? Karma is about kindness and humanity. Karma isn't about revenge for having a better team than yours, or a career threatening retaliation for a NFL rule infraction.
Anyone who says this is karma should re-evaluate their spiritual life and try to let go of the hate.
I admit I think the noname player should be fined just because it is an illegal hit at the knees of one of the all time greatest QBs, but I don't think the injury was intentional.
Pats fans dont get it. Yes, its totally classless to cheer any player getting injured.
Unless that player stayed in many games running up scores late in the 4th quarter with the full intent of embarassing other teams players and coaches. remember how Joe Gibbs Redskins noses were pushed in the dirt and also how Brady was left in late in the 4th quarter in Buffalo when the Pats were up by 49 points ?
Unless that teams coach had been found guilty of cheating and fined a 1st rd. pick.
Unless that teams fans had a history of classless behavior back to Foxboro days.
Unless that teams Vince Wilfork took out JP Losmans knee and injured him.
Unless that teams Rodney Harrison threw his countless cheapshots while taking steroids.
Unless that teams Nick Kaczur was prosecuted for 202 oxycontin and then turned informant to stay out of prison.
Its not just Bradys injury that fans in other cities were cheering. Its the whole enchilada and fans around the NFL voiced their opinion of how they feel about Coach Unabomber and the way his team and fans treated other teams.
And now the Patriot fans are wondering why their little wonderboys injury was cheered ? Its not just Brady. Its the whole system. Duh.
Please, is this what you people are focusing on? A couple of losers on a blog or talk radio say something stupid and you're writing stories about it? You people spend a lot of time focusing on New York. I didn't realize NYC envy was so strong, and I assure you New Yorkers don't spend a second concerning themselves what Boston fans say or think. I suggest you do the same. No one wanted to see Brady get hurt, no one is "cheering" the injury, but if you're an AFC East fan (I hate the Jets, but root for another team), let's face it, the chances of your team winning some games and making the playoffs are a little better now than they were at kickoff yesterday AND that's what FANS are happy about. Injuries s*ck, I feel bad for Brady (even though he gets to rehab at home with that hottie GB), but they are part of the game.
thank you KL for putting my thoughts into print. The lack of objective thought by these fans is unbelievable. They relish rubbing any and every point into people's faces to the point that they are reviled across the country as ultimate front runners.
and Joe Norger, where did I say that I cheered for his injury? Just because I made a point, doesn't mean I was in on that reaction. This further proves KL's (and my) point. The least criticism brings complete overreaction by a bunch of overzealous, pompous fans
It was not a dirty play. You are all bitter losers, you are getting exactly what you deserve.
Boston has the worst fans in all of sports.
To Dolly,
Yes they are good and decent sports fans in NY, and you are a prime example. Thank you for a classy and educated post. There should be more like you when it comes to NY sports fans. Clearly my previous posts are not directed toward you and other fans like you.
Now what would you prefer 1)Matt Cassel plays very well and defense carries Patriots to another super bowl ring, which by the way would dicount Brady's significance. or 2)Patriots flunk out which would prove Brady's importance is as worth as every word said about his importance?
It's ok--we can laugh hysterically at NY fans too. That $200 million steroid infested team in the Bronx is 10 games out of first place!
Remember the game against the Jags last year?
Do not count the Pats out!!!!!
There are more chapters left to this season.
everyone needs to get real - acting like everyone was cheering. it's not right to cheer for an injury but they are a-holes in EVERY city!
i'm SURE they were plenty of people in boston cheering when osi went down a couple of weeks ago.
the dumbest people are the ones who can classify an entire city as jerks because they saw a few people cheering - thats called stereotyping. you retards. :)
Stay Classy, New York...
To Gary
You are a loser. I am very happy that you are miserable
Does it really surprise anyone that NY fans cheered? I'd expect nothing less than a showing of no class by them. They are the same fans that cheered when their OWN QB got hurt against the Pats last year after all. Very classy.
Looks like a few of you could use a bowl of crybaby soup.
Its odd how red sox fans cheer when pedro threw at Karim Garcia's head. How they cheer Yankees suck even at games when they arent facing the yankees. How they love it when Josh beans players when he throws inside. And Brady is injured. You know your season is done. But its not like they are cheering cause he got paralyzed. So dont be bitter. If it was Peyton you would be doing the same thing. Get down off your soap boxes and take the injusry like men. Your QB is done. And so are the Pats.
I can't believe some posters on here sound surprised and disappointed that NY has more low class trash fans than anywhere else and would cheer an injury to a star QB. Always expect the worst from them and you will never be disappointed. Not all NY fans are like that of course, but I think it's fair to say that they have a much higher percentage of morons than any other fanbase in the nation.
That said, this is a learning experience for many of us. Remember how it makes you feel when some bitter and classless fools pour salt in your wounds and mock and cheer an injury to a star athlete. Then DON'T do it to them if the opportunity presents itself. Americans in general are becoming a cruel, heartless, sadistic bunch and most of our fans seem to have forgotten (or never known) what sportsmanship is about and why we play and watch these games in the first place.
Play the game the right way - and be a good sport as a fan. Take the high road because nobody wins with the rampant scumbaggery among today's fanbases.
OH PLEASE!!! Of course some people in the city cheered when Brady went down. But most fans in the city, while realizing that this brings the Pats back to the pack, felt bad about Brady's injury. He IS a great player. Boston sports fans have no reason to complain. I watched the super bowl in Walpole last year wearing a Giants shirt. The folks that weren't hostile were condescending and patronizing "Nice little team you have there" At least it was a better reception than I got when I wore a Yankee hat. Injuries are part of the game. Deal with it and move on!
Cousteau, the epitome of an overzealous, pompous fan is one is goes onto another team's site and tries to tell them how they should react when the biggest star in their team's history goes down in what has to be characterized as a borderline play at best. I repeat, you know nothing about Boston or its sports fans. If you're not here to gloat about Brady's injury like all the other no class trolls, why are you here? If the shoe fits, wear it.
So what! Even if the Jets do win the division which I certainly don't believe they will. I hope they celebrate getting outclassed by the Jags/Browns/Ravens/Broncos?/Texans? in the wild card weekend.
Stop for a second and ask yourself why people were cheering. Look beyond the shallow "lack of sportsmanship" nonsense. Tom Brady is a nice guy - even a likable guy. The Patriots are NOT likable, and Belichik is the cause of it. Kinda like the Barry Bonds of the NFL. Running up the score all of last year. The fans aren't taking pleasure in seeing the league MVP go down for the year - they're taking pleasure in seeing Barry Bondichik suffer. Sorry for the Pats fans that you have such a guy setting the external opinion of your franchise.
To those sanctimonious jerks that say the Jet fans have no class, because they cheered Tom Brady's injury, just think about the thunderous applause that would erupt in any Boston pub, if Derek Jeter or Alex Rodriguez were lost for the season on opening day. News flash - people hate the Patriots because their coach is a smug, arrogant jerk who circumvents the rules, because they win a lot, and because Patriot / Red Sox fans are intolerable.
I am not a Yankee fan, or the fan of an AFC East team, but (like most of America) I hate the Patriots and Red Sox just the same. If the Pats are the team you folks always boast they are, they will overcome the loss of this one outstanding player.
typical NY mentallity. their fans r scum of the earth. lets get one thing striahgt if these nitwits had the chance to get brady and belichek thw minute they were free agents they would take them and rub it in bostons face like they did with clemens and boggs and damon and they know it
I am a huge football fan and HUGE Bronco fan. My first reaction was to laugh! What a terrible person I am. C'mon people get over it. Who cares if other fans cheer Brady going down. I think most of us haters would only celebrate an injury like this...not anything more serious. Think of all the hatred for the Yankees when they were at the top of their game....I am willing to bet at least one of you self-righteous posters would have cheered if Jeter would have been hurt and missed the year; this would have improved your team's chances! You are all reacting like Brady died and everyone is cheering and lining up to piss on his grave! It's a knee injury! Don't be so sensitive.....go Broncos!
18-1*
Yes, the Pats are weaker, but how much weaker? I believe they are still a playoff team and a contender for the AFC East. Why? Because you don't go 18-1 with JUST a prolific offense. You need great defense, special teams, and coaching. I believe they still have all that (Ellis Hobbs' great return yesterday). They now have to step it up a notch. Heck. The Ravens D carried them all the way to a Super Bowl. Why not the Pats D? Maybe Belicheck new something, which is why he kept 5 running backs with different talents.
As a Jets fan who's lived here for several years now, let me provide some perspective:
I've watched every regular and pre-season game for the past five years at the Sports Depot in Allston, and every time Chad Pennington went down with his various injuries over the years (Hand, Shoulder, Shoulder, Ankle) I've heard roars of glee coming from the majority of boston fans who choose to publicly display their hatred of all things NY there every week. So don't get ahead of yourselves here boston, just because you're on the business end of a bad injury this time doesn't mean you have any moral high ground on the matter. There is no such thing, in any sport, as a "classy" fanbase, or even a "more mature" fanbase. Sports fans in general can be classy or mature individually, in the same way that they can be arrogant and/or mean-spirited individually. But there's no collective conscience among any one group of fans or another, and labelling all fans of one particular team (or city) "unclassy" or "vile" or any of the other terms used by poster #46 displays a profound lack of maturity and intelligence.
Just because I experienced a lot of ill will and "kicking whilst down" with Patriots fans during the Chad Pennington era doesn't mean I get to indict all Pats fans or the whole region for the sins of the drunken, uneducated few. And neither do any of you. Please grow up folks, your naked hate for the Jets, Giants, Yankees, Mets, or even all New Yorkers in the guise of accusations of poor sportsmanship are reflective of the fact that you poses many of the same qualities you claim to hate in your neighbors to the Southwest.
What everyone seems to be forgetting is that when Drew Dledsoe went down and Tom Brady, the untested 5th round draft pick, took the field, all Belichick wanted of him was to play mistake-free football. That is all Cassel has to do as well, as he did on Sunday. Not taking anything away from Tom Brady and his ultra-cool demanor on the field, but this roster is uber-talented, from 1 to 53, and the coach and general manager are still at their positions. Call Chicken Little off! Let all the also-ran cities celebrate, as they no-doubt did in 2001, that is before we held up the Lombardi trophy, led there by our backup QB. See you in Tampa in February!
Yup, this is all locker room fodder. I have learned in my life that a star can make a game or maybe even a season, but a dynasty is about the team(including the organization).
Pride alone will be worth several wins this year.
2-0 will be sweeter than ever.
now, about my fantasy team....
Its so sad that Boston has to turn this into a NY issue. I can't imagine a more pathetic fan base in all of sports.
First off, like any Patriots fan of any worth, I am devastated by what Brady's injury means to the team and to a great athlete who deserves to compete with and against the best. For Brady its a forced hiatus of the worst kind and for that I feel the most.
However, I have two observations:
Regarding Pats fan's outrage at our competetions' fans cheering. While cheering for an injury is totally classless, it is up to us to look within and manage our own fandom. If we are so blinded by winning we loose the spirit of the game which is competition. We may be appalled now as Brady's season ends but we also have to look deep and decide right now that should A-Rod or Peyton get hurt, are we going to cheer? I would personally mourn the loss of competition. How sweet can that victory be if you weren't competing at the highest level?
The other observation is about the dark side of our own New England fandom. I am talking about the doom and gloom, run away predictions for the worst. Doesn't anyone realize that this horrible situation is actually an opportunity for our team to show us, AGAIN, that its the team effort that wins games, not individual stature and talent? We are again the underdogs to the highest degree. Our greatest sports accomplishments of the last decade have come under just such circumstances (rs vs nyy, 2004 and pats superbowl, 2001). When all was lost, when we were left for dead, our teams beat those odd and did what all the talking heads said was impossible.
So while I am sickened that brady is gone and that I won't see him continue to kill defenses this year, I am not in despair because this team has shown me, time and time again, that it ain't over until the fat lady sings.
I think anyone who cheered when Brady went down and limped off the field thought, for the most part, he would be out 1 or 2 games. I don't think anyone thought it would be a season ending injury. Of course, there will ALWAYS be the real haters, who would cheer louder if they DID know it was a season ending injury...but you can't judge people by that sort of person.
Hey New York fans!! Thanks for living up to everyone's expectations for being utterly classless!! Trust me, you haven't shocked anyone!
Even if one of your pathetic AFC teams makes it to the playoffs, you can't hide from the truth! They wouldn't be there if not for a catastrophic injury to the Patriots! Enjoy your free ride this season.
hey pete it usually IS a NY issue since NY IS NOW SO OBSESSED WITH US CUZ WE HAVE BEEN WINNING LOTS OF CHAMPIONSHIPS LATELY WHICH THE PEOPLE OF NY SAID IT WOULD BE THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD CUZ IT WOULD ELMINIATE BOSTON'S LOSERVILLE IDENITY. WHEN IN REALITY BOSTON WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS ELIMINATED NYS IDENITY. NY IS BOTHERED BY THE FACT WE HAVE WON A WORLD SERIES IN FACT LAST TIME I CHECKED 2 COMPARED TO 0 THIS CENTURY. NY JETS FANS WOULD KILL TO HAVE BRADY AND BELICHEK IF THEY HAD THE CHANCE AND YOU KNOW IT.
OK Jets fans... This is your chance. You had better take advantage of it. There is no doubt the jets will finish ahead of the PATS with Brett almighty. Or is there. If you cant get it done now, You should just move to LA. What will you say when The PATS still win the division without Tom? Jets fans are the best, they make me feel that much smarter.
I am not a NY fan ,but I am glad the CHEATRIATS got what they deserve.
I can't wait to hear the stories of why we are so great . the Pats have had the easiest schedule for the past 3 years. I will also include ,Anyone believing the pats are a Dynasty is wrong. Take the Oakland playoff game away, that the tuck rule became famous when it is a fumble Played in New England. The holding penalties against the real Dynasty. The Colts. In New England. We wouldn't even be concerned about this injury. New Enlgand didn't complain then?This is exactly what the doctor ordered for Belecheat and the pats.
I'm getting tired of hearing trolls say that Brady always has a smug look on his face. You're now hating him because of his expression?! What the hell is he supposed to do now . . walk around the city frowning? If he always looked miserable suddenly that makes him more appealing?
And what is with the comments that he got what he deserved because he wasn't in shape? Last I checked the knee is a joint. With the right angle, It takes 8 pounds of pressure to blow the knee. Obviously, he got way more than that. Have you ever seen anyone with a muscular knee? You can't make a joint stronger. Get your facts straight.
In other news, the Yankees slip to fourth place, and Yankee fans everywhere are pretending that football is the biggest sport in town.
It's important to remember that not ALL New York fans illustrate poor sportsmanship and judgement. True sports fans know that winning while ALL of the opposing team's key players are in good health is the ultimate achievement.
Down with hatred! Put a little love in your hearts, Boston and N.Y. fans!!
Anyone that cheered, did so b/c they know thats the only way that their team can win. Win by way of injury to the other team. I personally hate excuses, so not sure why anyone would want their team to win a game by way of injury to the league MVP. Seems bitersweet to me.
First off all, bad job by Eric Wilbur. He posted this just to inflame the tension between New York and Boston. How did I know a Boston journalist would try to make New Yorkers, excellent and wonderful fans that we are, look like neanderthals? A small sampling doesn't cover all of us. I know you have a job to do, but come on. Same goes for these Pats fans who always want to put themselves on the pedestal as being great fans - when a lot of you didn't give a damn about the Pats pre-Brady.
Second, I'm a die-hard Jets fans and hate the Patriots, though not nearly as much as the Dolphins. I have NEVER rooted for or cheered an injury to a rival team, whether it be the Dolphins, Patriots, Celtics, Islanders or Red Sox (the team I hate THE most in pro sports). And I know plenty of Jets fans who were just as saddened as I was when Brady went down. I always want my teams to beat their rivals when they are at their healthiest. Besides that, Brady is an excellent player and I was looking forward to this match-up of Brady vs. Favre.
I hope Brady gets well soon. But I still want the Jets to crush the Patriots next week., regardless of who's at QB.
What else would one expect of New York fans? There football teams now have a chance. Well, the Jets anyway. Hey, how bout then Yankees, Bbwwaahaahaa!
And by the way all you talking heads at ESPN may as well say what you really think and cheer Brady's injury, along with the NY tabloids. Hearing that hypocrite Collinsworth say this is a sad day for the NFL makes me want to puke.
I swear N.Y show no class wait till the day there Q.B (OLD) GOES DOWN AND HE WILL I hope everyone shows you the same reaction which is NO CLASS when any player gets hurt no matter who he plays for any one that has a heart would show sympathy except a no class state like NY Just look at all there druggies on there NY team the yankees
Nobody who loves sports should cheer when anyone on any team gets hurt. Remember its a game. Tom Brady works as hard as anyone on the Patriots and really transformed himself in the NFL. He has what most men dream of...and I'm not talking about Gisele Bundchen. (Randy Moss and a huge offensive line!) Its over this year and someone else will have to step up. Don't count the Patriots out yet. In the meantime....GO SOX!
How can you say it was a "clean hit" (by the way)? If the rule says you can't hit a QB below the knees and you hit him below the knees, the rule's been broken and the hit is dirty. Looks a lot like the Wilfork hit of last year to me. So where's the fine? Any player who lunges at a standing QB from the ground ought to get a flag, 15 yards and a fine.
These comments demonstrate exactly the reason people are cheering the Brady injury in NY- they don't hate Brady, they hate YOU, the smug NE fans- they delight in YOUR misery, not Tom Brady's; you all laughed it up while your team was running up the score on the rest of the league, now you are all whining about other fans not having class in preparation for the beatdown the Pats are about to take this year.
Well I guess Bella-cheat is now getting to reap what he has sewn, cheating, acting like the classless idiot to Mangini, etc.
I am not even a JETS fan, but all I can say is this.
Bell-acheat and the rest of the PATS fans cannot use injury as an reason why you don't win your games. Nobody wants to hear the whining, complaining etc. You were a 16 win team last year, and you are expected to win the division and go to the Super Bowl.
Shut UPS and just play
I can believe fans in NYC would cheer. They have all the class of, well, a New Yorker. The thing that really boggles my mind is the reaction of the fans in Buffalo. I like that organization and that town. They also had an injury to a player last year. It was pretty big and was in the news a lot. What was it. Oh, yeah, that's right. Kevin Everett was paralyzed. I wonder how fans in Buffalo would feel if anyone, and I do mean anyone, from any where cheered when Everett went down.
To be fearful of two losses during a season is one thing. To lose all sense of human dignity is quite another.
Sorry Bella-cheats you are now getting what you deserve.
Don't whine. This is football. You are expected to win the division, and go to the superbowl team. Nobody wants to hear exscuses, including Mr. Personality himself.
Show us don't complain to us.
Boston's Napolean complex is hilarious. Always looking to blame NY. Relax guys, you can't judge a whole based on a few. There's a name for that. I know you cheer when you throw at A-Rod and I know you cheered when Testaverde went down in '99. Calling New Yorkers classless?? Look in the mirror.
First of all, I am a Jets season ticket holder and the Jets will always be terrible. Tom Brady is (was) the best QB in the NFL. I was really hoping the Jets would have an opportunity to compete with Brady. I was not happy to hear that he was hurt. However, he is arrogant and I have watched him walked off the field twice and not shake the opposing teams hand when he lost. He blew off Eli before the Super Bowl. Jet fans might not have class, but neither do Tom Brady or your coach. Stop complaining. Don't you people have six championships in the last eight years.
Of course there are no Boston fans who cheer injuries of players on the Yankees and other NY teams right? Please, every group of fans has their share of idiots. It's mostly younger fans who haven't been watching sports too long. Pathetic job by Wilbur as usual.
Sorry about Tom, but won't it be delicious when they win by 17 over the Jets Sunday? I'm a baseball fan and I've always suspected football fans of being closet Pro-wrestling fans. I can remember '48 when the Sox fans cheered Joe D's return from a serious leg injury [achilles tendon I think] and he proceeded to beat our brains out for three or four games in a season we lost in a playoff. Never heard a baseball fan say after that series or season they wished Joe never showed up. Baseball fans - different breed. New Yorkers - no class. Go Pats and kick some ass and remember what was done to your quarterback and winked at by the league. By the way, wither Krafty?