Ups & downs

Mike,

The o-line has some serious depth issues that need to be addressed. Also, when are the Pats going to give up on Cassel and Chad Jackson? Will Chad be the 4th WR on this team because that’s a huge step back from last year?

I always thought Cassel had potential but from his performance last year and last night it seems he doesn't have what it takes. Gutierrez, while making a few mistakes, at least can move the team - if the O-line is on their game or not. Cassel appears to have no confidence when he's on the field - too bad.

I'd put LaMont Jordan in the "up" category as well. On a night when the offense was lousy overall, Jordan was one of the few bright spots. He looks like the type of back you can keep feeding late to punish defenses and put the game away. They didn't have that after Morris got injured last year.

Ryan, I watched the game over again -- the TV copy -- and I came away giving Jackson a little more slack than I did watching the game live. The offensive line play was poor, which like Super Bowl XLII, paralyzed a lot of what the offense was trying to do. In terms of Jackson, the miscommunication with Cassel was obviously a downer, and he didn't seem to finish a route in the second quarter, which would concern me if I was on the coaching staff because I'd want to see some more urgency from a player who is no lock to be on the club. My thoughts would be that I want to see more before writing Jackson off, but last night did not inspire confidence. Dan, I'd agree that Jordan looked good (76 yards, 19 carries, 4.0 avg.). The reason I didn't put him on there was that much of his production came against second-string players and I expected that from him, against that level of competition.
--Mike

I think Cassel has always looked shaky in game action. He may practice well, but game speed kills him. I know they are probably hoping he shows something so they can get a trade pick in return. But he does not add value to the team and shouldn't take up a roster spot.

Jackson I think it's tough to tell. He will be the 3rd reciever in the offense and will be single covered due to Moss and Welker. He was really the only option out there last night. Plus...as I said...have Cassel out there doesn't help.

The O Line is definitely the biggest area of concern. But I also think the Ravens pinned their ears back because of Brady, Moss and Welker on the bench. I would guess as we saw this year's draft being all defense..there will be some OL taken next year.

On the positive. Mayo looked fast...VERY fast. Which this defense needs. The opposite side of that was something I picked up on late last year. How many missed tackles Bruschi has. He seems to dive by and miss more often than not. I would love to see Junior come back and split time with Tedy again like early last year. I thought Junior had a better year.

Love the depth at OLB. Very nice to see. I thought Vrabel got worn down last year.

CBs. Too early to tell but Wheatley seemed to be aggressive, which is good to see.

It's the first preseason game. Can't read too much into it. But I really think the Pats would be better served getting a Pennington to back up Brady then trying to develop Cassel or Guittirez.

I agree with Jay about Cassel. He just needs to get more experience. He has the physical tools and the smarts, but when he gets into game speed (Reiss said himself practice never reaches game speed) he freaks out. The non contact practices don't help either.

Why did Belichick go for a two-point conversion with four? minutes left in the fourth, when an extra point would have tied the game? That seems like a bad decision to me. Was the outcome of the game that unimportant?

I've always thought that a two-point conversion try should occur only when taking the extra point makes no sense. For example, you score a touchdown with seconds remaining but you're still trailing by two. I've heard of college coaches allowing the team to decide when trailing by one point, but not in the NFL.

Mike, I thought Crable should have been included with your UP group. He looked like a man among boys out there. He seemed to be all over the field. I know it was against 2nd and 3rd teamers and I only got to see the 2nd half but, to me he was their most impressive player.

Barry, that obviously was BB's idea to get the offense some real situational football practice. And I believe there is no right or wrong here. That's what pre-season exhibition games are for. Relax, it won't happen in any regular season game.

Hi Barry. The outcome of the game was not important to Belichick in that situation. These preseason games could probably be 2 quarters and the coaches would feel that is just right. I think Belichick probably also liked the added value of creating an in-game situation that could come up during the season. Jim G., I agree that Crable did some good things, but he was also the 12th man on the field on an extra point attempt, which was a mental mistake that I also factored in. Because of that, he just missed my cut.
--Mike

Barry, BB went for the 2 pointer because kicking the XP would have only tied the game and they probably would have had to play OT.

Yes, the outcome of a pre-season game is that unimportant.

I was more than pleased to see some youth injected into the Linebackers ! It is about time.

Pierre Woods will see a lot more playing time this year as he is going to take some snaps for Vrabel as he is getting up there in age. Woods played with the 1st stringers out there and looked good and got some pressure. He could be a great addition coming off the left edge and Adalius Thomas coming off the right edge.

Also ... Seymour looked good and exlposive last night. The most important part of this defence to me is the health of Seymour. If he stays healthy this front seven will dominate teams with the pass rush when the Pats are up in the second quarter and cause QB's to rush their throws.

And is it just me or does Crabble look enormous out there. Just wait till he fully develops his lowed body strength. The guy is a monster.

I know Brady will suit up for the next game in Tampa. But does anyone think Moss will ?

Last nights game just goes to show you that if we lose Brady(MVP of not only the Pats but the entire league), we stink...

Does anyone have an injury update on players from last night???? Specifically for Tank Williams and Slater? I like Slater to fit in right away....

Barry:

No NFL coach wants preseason games to go into overtime. Greater risk of injury. Who cares if they win or lose? It doesn't count.

A few things to add in follow-up to the comments already posted:

Jay, there is no way Chad Jackson is or would be considered the 3rd receiver. That would be Jabar Gafney, without any question in my mind.

Also, why no mention of Kevin O'Connell (unless I missed it)?! I thought he was the best Pats QB in the game last night - strong arm, good foot speed, made a few nice completions, and was part of the only touchdown drive for the Pats. He could have released the ball sooner on some of the later plays in the game, but overall I thought he easily outperformed Cassell and Guttierez.

Yep, I would add Crable to the Up list. Jordan looked good, but I disagree with the poster that said Maroney can't finish games. I thought he did that very effectively. Maroney seems to be the type of player that needs games under his belt each year before he starts turning it on, and the more you feed him during a game, the better he gets.

Cassel? Needs more experience? How much more can we give him before we realize that he isn't fit to QB at this level? Of course, neither of the other two are ready either. Quite the dilemma. Of course, Chad Pennington is available, isn't he? Not like he would want to go anywhere to ride the bench when he could be starting somewhere.

The offensive line is very concerning. Granted the Ravens defense is a lot better than most of the defenses we will face, and put a lot more pressure, but still, if we can not give Brady enough time back there, we are in SERIOUS trouble! Thank God that the defense is looking very good at this point. Corner play is a bit of a concern, and I hope Tank will be alright, because he adds a lot to this defense. Mayo and Crable look very good. This is the first time in a while that so many rooks look like they will be big contributors to the team. I see Mayo and Crable creating some mayhem

Paul,

O'Connell looked good but wasn't that more a product of his environment? Bad offensive line play leads to opportunities for mobile quarterbacks. Add in the fact he was running against, at that point, 3rd stringers made him look better. He's got upside but the Pats still need an experienced backup.

I'm frankly a little concerned about the CB situation though. Bryant got burned. Sanders looked good, but overall they looked like a bunch of grade schoolers trying to tackle giants. Why does BB like having such small guys out there? I just keep having flashbacks of Ellis Hobbs, fully extended, barely reaching Plaxico's shoulders. If teams are smart they're going to exploit this huge disadvantage. Am I wrong?

I did not see the game but the comments about Jackson are disturbing. Did Jackson really have the audacity and complete lack of work ethic to not run a pass route after all the underperforming and injuries the Patriots have put up with with him? Mike -- is there a character/work ethic issue with this guy or is this an isolated incident?

Well you have to looked at Bryan't play in context. Just saying he got burned is kind of a stupid thing to say.
I am assuming you are referring to the first two drives by the Ravens.

The Pats played a soft zone and rushed four guys. That is already putting the CBs in a tough spot. Also on at least two catches by Mason, the coverage was good and Mason/boller just made a nice play (don't forget the other side has guys on scholarship too).

You have to give new DBs time. If they are struggling after week 5, then you have an issue. Until the, give it time.

Last night game proves why we shouldn' have to pay FULL price for a preseason game that we are mandated to buy. The coach even proved that it was meaningless with his two point coversion decision.

Full price for that game should be criminal.

Joe, when you say Mason made the catches even with good coverage, that's part of the point. You could be in great position, but if the other guy is 4 inches taller than you, he has a better shot at making the play.

Putting Bryant's play in context, last night - he didn't look good. Baltimore made a point of going after him and they succeeded. If, in fact Bryant is going to be the 2nd CB, he needs to be able to cover the other teams " scholarship" players.

hey JD, there are about 50,000 people waiting to pay FULL PRICE for the preseason games.

give up the tickets if you don't like it.

just sayin'.

Went to the game, and bummed by the disastrous parking situation (getting in/getting ripped off for $40/getting out), and more so by the OL, which has just deteriorated since the first half of last season. Some quick hits:
1) Wheatley looked quick as a cat and will be their #1 cover corner this year.
2) The OTHER 'new" big LB, #47, Vincent Redd, looked strong on teams and at OLB. A free agent steal!
3) The other free agent LB (Gary Guyton) looked fast and versatile. A keeper!
4) They have to bring in other punters. Hanson is about as productive and reliable as is Craig Hansen.
5) Jackson is the new Bethel Johnson (or Tony Simmons). Same guys!

You are all arm chair coaches who think you know all. Listen to the coaches and the owners. It is a game. It is meant to be fun. To go tail gate. To blow off steam for those with the cash to do so. You make it so complicated by analyzing every nuance. You put everyone under a microscope. It is the media's job to do that not your own. Just because some of youselves coached or played Pop Warner, high school or college ball does not make you experts. Spend some time with your kids.

Thanks to everyone for making it clear that the outcome of a preseason game really doesn't matter and that coaches are willing to gamble the entire game on one play just to avoid overtime. I guess I would make a lousy football coach. I've never had the size or speed to play football, but when I get involved in something competitive, I play to win.

However, we all saw what happened last year. It's critical to have your team playing its best football in the playoffs, not at the beginning of the season. It will be interesting to see what sort of changes BB will make this year to avoid repeating last year's mistake.

If you all complain about this player or that player. If you despise the parking fee's, If you hate parking jams. If you cannot stand the ticket prices. If you hate the fact the Mr Kraft has worked his butt off to get where he is. THEN SHUT YOUR COLLECTIVE MOUTHES. STAY AT HOME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE GAS AND WATCH IT ON TELEVISON WITH YOUR KIDS.

Ron-

You stole my thunder! Jackson is becoming eerily reminiscent (sp?) of Bethel & Simmons- appearing to have the talent but never having it materialize into solid play on the field. If he doesn't show something soon I would imagine they would have to consider giving his roster spot to a less heralded younger player that could potentially develop.

One main thing to remember boys is that this is simply the pre-season . I thought overall we did okay. We still have a few areas to work on , but overall I thought we did ok. We were missing 19 of our starters so in essence our 2nd and 3rd stringers were facing the Raven's very best . It was interesting seeing the young guys out there and trying to make some plays. I was very impressed with the rookies Mayo is going to be an absolute beast. Crable is another who looks to be very promising making a few big plays. Perire Woods was a standout. Wheatley looked solid. Our defense overall looked very good. Our offensive line was missing a ton of it's starters as well as recievers. I was hoping Jackson would have made more plays, and he looked bad out there. Hopefully he will lose the attitude andstep it up. I thought Mat Slater looked explosive. I hope he evolves into a Devin Hester type return man. Jordan looked great . I cant wait to see him and Maroney in the regular season tearing things up. I thought the QB situation was a mess. I thought Cassel got discouraged after the misscommunications with Jackson. Guiteirrez looked solid. O'Connell looked really good while running and passing all over the place. He looked very confident and made the most progress out of all the QB's . If I had to make an order after that game I would rank the back up QB's as follows O'Connell , Guitierrez , Cassel.

Cassel - I thought just lost his confidence

I want to believe that if Jackson doesn't step it up soon he'll be cut. Then consider bringing Troy back for one more year. And we need to be better prepared for the catastrophe that would be playing without Brady. Toward that end bring in Pennington, who already has an established relationship with Moss. And his signing would be a kick in the groin to Mangenious. And does Jordan's performance render Eckel superfluous?

Hi Mike,

I'd add a couple to the up side as well... Namely Cravel and Slater. From my seat at the game, Cravel seemed to be one of the only defensive bright spots in the first half, while Slater showed speed and versatility in that half as well.

Unfortunately, Slater limped off the field in the first half, and wasn't seen after that. It seemed that Jones was getting all the reps that Slater would have been getting had he been in the game, but I really didn't like what I saw out of him. If I had a choice between Slater and C. J. Jones, I'd take Slater in a heartbeat.

The offensive line play last night looked eerily similar to the SB.. The Pats OL to a man lack athleticism and foot speed.. Even the starters, the Pats desperately need to get Neal back he is by far their most athletic OL..
I was impressed with Mayo, he was as good as advertised, his speed and pursuit are desperately needed.. Crable reminds me of a young McGinest, you have to like what you saw out of Woods, he looks capable of being a part of the rotation.. I also liked the speed of Wheatley, he will make many plays because of it..
The backup QB spot is a concern, it's clear why they drafted O'Connell but he is the future, I don't know if he is ready to be the #2. I have no confidence in Cassell anymore he's been her for 4yrs now and was the least productive not a good sign...

The Patsies are in trouble if Brady goes down. At least if we lose Peyton Manning, we have a reliable back-up in Jim Sorgi to run the offense. Plus we can just give the ball to Joseph Addai to carry the offense. Belicheat can't rely on giving the ball to Pansy Maroney.

Belicheat wasn't able to break the rules in the Super Bowl last year, that's why you guys finally lost one.

First point, There is an intangible quality to being a good to great quarterback that really is about leadership and inspiring your teammates to play beyond themselves and that brings out the best in others. Cassell has never had that intangible quality. He has never been able to string together a sustained drive, and more often, his drives end in picks. He doesn't have it, never has had it, and except for some crazy scrambling out of the backfield on his first pre-season game 3 years ago, this has been a flat line experience. He needs to go.

Second point, Slater was a bit disappointing on kick offs. He got clobbered on the 19 the first time and then had an average return the second time. Time will tell. Crable was the one surprise that showed up out of nowhere.

Third point, Mayo is the real deal. He will be a great complement to Bruschi who has the knowledge of the defense yet whiffs on tackles, where Mayo has the dominance in stopping the run while still learning the play book.

Fourth point, The O-Line was terrible last night, but they also were last year at this time when Brady got pummelled the first pre-season game in '07. Time will tell.

Fifth point, Seymour will back to his normal disruptive self on the line. I see great things from the front 3. I only hope Jarvis Green gets back in the line up soon.

From Bosoxj in Cali via Waterville Maine; From reading and watching the higlights, I suppose I'm lucky I missed the game last night. The rest of the NFL has furthered the theory that if you get to Brady the Pats are finished. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love the Pats, but facts are facts. Without some extra protection packages the Pats will have some tough games this year. Back to missing the game though; I live in California now and can't see all the pre-season games live. You would think all the money I pay Direct TV for the football package I would get all the pre-season games as well as regular season games. Nothe the less it's great to hear all the good things about some of the standout rookies!

A few things to add in follow-up to the comments already posted:

Jay, there is no way Chad Jackson is or would be considered the 3rd receiver. That would be Jabar Gafney, without any question in my mind.

Also, why no mention of Kevin O'Connell (unless I missed it)?! I thought he was the best Pats QB in the game last night - strong arm, good foot speed, made a few nice completions, and was part of the only touchdown drive for the Pats. He could have released the ball sooner on some of the later plays in the game, but overall I thought he easily outperformed Cassell and Guttierez.

Starting off the season 0-1 is not fun. Hopefully the Pats can turn it around during their next game.

I know it's early (1 game) but I think that the Pats need to make a full-court press to convince Pennington that playing for a Super Bowl while backing up Brady is his best career move. Right now, I just don't have any confidence in a single backup quarterback on that team.

Paul,
No question that Gafney will be the 3rd WR on this team, but who will be the 4th or 5th? Waiting to see how that unfolds. The biggest two questions I have now is the O-line and keeping Brady health. No surprises there.

PS: Mike you do a wonderful job and I just want to thank you for all your hard work!

I thought Gutierrez showed more poise and better decision-making. I didn't see O'Connell so I can't make a judgment on him. Cassel just doesn't have a head for the game. It's unfortunate, but I think Cassel is going to be dropped to number 3 and it will be O'Connell and the G-Man fighting for the backup position.
I think we saw some promising things from the young defensive guys -- especially speed and aggressiveness -- but I am still concerned about the O-line.
I just hope they get their stuff together in time for the Giants game.

If you all complain about this player or that player. If you despise the parking fee's, If you hate parking jams. If you cannot stand the ticket prices. If you hate the fact the Mr Kraft has worked his butt off to get where he is. THEN SHUT YOUR COLLECTIVE MOUTHES. STAY AT HOME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE GAS AND WATCH IT ON TELEVISON WITH YOUR KIDS.

I thought the team looked like garbage and I doubt I'll be watching another game this whole season.

If I'm going to watch football... I want to watch a team that actually knows what its doing.

Pathetic...

One main thing to remember boys is that this is simply the pre-season . I thought overall we did okay. We still have a few areas to work on , but overall I thought we did ok. We were missing 19 of our starters so in essence our 2nd and 3rd stringers were facing the Raven's very best . It was interesting seeing the young guys out there and trying to make some plays. I was very impressed with the rookies Mayo is going to be an absolute beast. Crable is another who looks to be very promising making a few big plays. Perire Woods was a standout. Wheatley looked solid. Our defense overall looked very good. Our offensive line was missing a ton of it's starters as well as recievers. I was hoping Jackson would have made more plays, and he looked bad out there. Hopefully he will lose the attitude andstep it up. I thought Mat Slater looked explosive. I hope he evolves into a Devin Hester type return man. Jordan looked great . I cant wait to see him and Maroney in the regular season tearing things up. I thought the QB situation was a mess. I thought Cassel got discouraged after the misscommunications with Jackson. Guiteirrez looked solid. O'Connell looked really good while running and passing all over the place. He looked very confident and made the most progress out of all the QB's . If I had to make an order after that game I would rank the back up QB's as follows O'Connell , Guitierrez , Cassel.

Cassel - I thought just lost his confidence

An obvious omission to the up side is Lamont Jordan for obvious reasons.

Last night's O'line play reminded me of SB XLII. I know, subs on the right but the left side was 1st stringers. I think we were out coached in SB XLII as Tom was getting killed and no adjustments were made to protect him. Why not a blocker next to Tom, Heath Evans, (find Sam Gash). Perhaps he needed more than one!!
(Would you believe four?) When you don't have time to throw the ball anyway, give up a WR and BLOCK. BB must not see it that way as last night would have been a perfect time to practice. I guess I'll keep my day job !

Every facet of the game has been discussed except the play of the defensive special teams which I thought was completely sub par. Mike how come no comment on this?

Starting off the season 0-1 is not fun. Hopefully the Pats can turn it around during their next game.

Posted by Pats Fan 2008 August 8, 08 08:49 PM

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well it's a good thing the PRESEASON counts for NOTHING.

i think i can speak for all patriots fans in saying, THIS IS THE PRESEASON, WHO F-ING CARES??????

just sayin'.

Daved77

Get a grip on yourself - this blog is designed for people to express opinions , make comments (the goof the bad and the ugly ) and to talk turkey about Patriots football. If you are so offended by such mild comments and by any complaint then YOU SHUT YOUR LONE SINGULAR LONER MOUTH and move to India and take up with some Tibetan monks. You can meditate all day, practice Yoga and be in silence and no one will offend your sensitive panty waisted sensibilities.

Starting off the season 0-1 is not fun. Hopefully the Pats can turn it around during their next game.

Posted by Pats Fan 2008 August 8, 08 08:49 PM

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well it's a good thing the PRESEASON counts for NOTHING.

i think i can speak for all patriots fans in saying, THIS IS THE PRESEASON, WHO F-ING CARES??????

just sayin'.

Paul,

To answer your post. I didn't mention O'Connell specificly, but I did say at the end that if I were running the Pats, I would look to add a veteran QB as backup and lose both Cassel and Guitierrez. (Maybe see if you can sneak Guitierrez on the practice squad.)

As for Jackson. I agree he is under performing. BUT. I really don't think it helps when he's out there with Cassel and I'm not ready to throw the towel in on him yet. I would like to see him with the starting offense and see how he performs. Gaffney is definitely the #3 right now, but you have to remember he is only on a 1 year deal, and if he has another decent year, he is going to want to get paid.

Other points. I wouldn't get too worked up on Bryant. They were playing basic defense with no rush. When they start to rush and blitz he will be mixing up coverages and have more safety help.

Also. I agree that Jordan looked solid. I just don't know how they manage to keep 5 backs. Unless the go with 2 QBs or TEs.

I also wanted to make the point about the miscommunication between Jackson and Cassel on the interception. Why does everyone think it was Jackson that was wrong? Was the reciever wrong with Cassel drilled it into Jason Taylor's chest last year for a TD? What has Cassel done to make you think his judgement on passing plays is better than Jackson's?

Daved77

Get a grip on yourself - this blog is designed for people to express opinions , make comments (the goof the bad and the ugly ) and to talk turkey about Patriots football. If you are so offended by such mild comments and by any complaint then YOU SHUT YOUR LONE SINGULAR LONER MOUTH and move to India and take up with some Tibetan monks. You can meditate all day, practice Yoga and be in silence and no one will offend your sensitive panty waisted sensibilities.

Hello Mike,
What is this: " vanilla approach in their preseason opener". Does this also apply to a chocolate approach?
Grammy