Mike Vrabel analysis

What??

wow this is completey unexspected pats need vrabel. they need to get rid of cassel to clear some space not cut veteran leaders who is going to play OLB?

Could he be traded back as part of a Cassel trade? If they don't have anything fully put together right now, the Pats could use this little bit of cap space gained to sign someone like Bodden. KC could even take on some extra cap by guaranteeing salary which would drop his cap hit in a trade back. You know ... just a thought.

You're forgetting a significant part of this deal. You fail to mention what we may be getting in return. That obviously plays a large part in the rationale! Hopefully we'll find out soon.

Anything less than the 35th or whatever it is (the Chief's 2nd rounder) would be a travesty. Also, if Vrabel is gone and Cassel isn't moved in the next 24 hours (either to Carolina, TB, or the Chiefs...actually hell, anyone.) this could be the beginning of something bad. If Vrabel was moved to free up cap space...cap space that Cassel is taking up....and Cassel doesn't go anywhere....who else is next on the chopping block?

I agree we will have to wait for more information about this deal. This may be the first part of a blockbuster deal between the Pats, KC and possible one other team.

Mike don't you think this could mean that the Peppers for Cassel rumor may be very real? Vrabel going, leaves room for a linebacker / playmaker on the outside...

Wow is all I can say. I know im probably getting a ton of crap for saying this but all told, Vrabel success was pass rushing and he just didnt get the job done this year. Maybe he was in coverage more and thats a possibility, but I watched plenty of action and just seemed like he wasnt able to cause as much havoc as years past. I'll certainly miss him as I thought he was truly a stand up guy.

It would be interesting to note what pick(s) we got for him. Assuming its a 2nd or 3rd round pick we could be looking at draft flexibility to move around the board to pick up a LB (Cushing, Matthews) and a potential playmaking DB (S or CB)

Julius Peppers.....

In Bill I trust. In Bill I trust. In Bill I trust... right?

People calling for high picks are crazy. They'd be lucky to get a 4th.

I have said it for two months...Julius Peppers will be wearing a Pats uniform. This trade is a precursor. I want to thank Mike Vrabel for 8 fantastic years. Moving on is tough because you fall in love with our players. Bill and the front office know what they are doing. They would not further weaken the defense unless they had something in mind. Celebrate the time Mike was a Patriot and get excited to see the plan unfold! Thank you #50!

In his prime he was one of the best play-making LBs in the league. It seemed like after Bruschi lost a step he picked it up big time. Either him or Colvin were good for a huge play every single game!

Mike, you will be missed...

Mike,

In your Opinion, What do you think the Patriots should get for trading Mike Vrabel?

Undisclosed Draft pick...singular. Ill take it, the pats are going to reload in the draft on defense this year. I can not wait until april 25th. WEEI is saying they hear whispers that it is part of a larger deal including Cassel. One can only hope.

Definitely didn't see this coming. They must like Woods, Redd and Crable a lot more than we know.

Mike,

You are on top of it today! Thanks for the updates. Nice to know someone is working on a Friday!

Do you think Crable will be starting in this spot?

this HAS to involve cassel as well....THIS IS NUTS

clearing up cap space for Ray Lewis down the line? lots of respect from Billy B and Ray Lewis over the years with one another...

TELL US MIKE WHAT IS HAPPENING!!!

Can Peppers even play outside LB? He'll want the $$$ also

Can Peppers pay OLB? What does he weigh? Could be clearing cap space for a cassell for peppers deal, with a peppers extension.

They're getting an undisclosed draft choice

Cassell is going to KC as well. KC's second and fourth rounders coming back.

Kris your not alone. I agree. Its tough to let players walk that we love but its part of the game. The part that stinks is they won't get fair value for him through a trade. Theres no way KC gave anything higher than a 3rd and I wouldn't be surprised if the pick was lower than that.
I wish him the best.

I can't imagine the Chefs would give us anything more than a 3rd for him. Vrabel played his heart out but was mostly invisible this past season. At one point it seemed like his injured arm was just hanging their but he still continued to play. I understand the move -- might as well get some value out of him while the Pats could since he was a free agent at the end of the coming season. I had read once that Vrabel was contemplating retiring had the Pats gone 19-0 in '07. Some folks will kill me for saying this but if you set your emotions aside you'll realize that Bruschi is the next guy that must go. The front 7 put no pressure on opposing offenses last season and our coverage was also horrible. The LB corps plays a vital role in both pressure and coverage. We cannot succeed in the long term with Seau, Bruschi, Vrabel, Colvin, etc...

The first thing I thought was Peppers as well. I just don't understand how this could set up a Cassel to KC deal? Why not just trade Cassel and Vrabel in the same deal?

D Jackson, I agree. He is a fan favorite but somewhat past his prime.They will be lucky to get a 3rd. Everone wants the D to get younger. Here you go!
Good luck Mike.

No draft pick is worth an awful decision like this

Clowns....obviously they didn't give Vrabel away for cap space...there is more at hand here.. U se your heads

Two words...Ray Lewis

Yeah, in all fairness, if this is part of some blockbuster with Peppers, and Vrabel helps them pick up a 3rd rounder or something (remember, this is a guy one season removed from 12.5 sacks), which would enable them to move up along with the other 2nd rounders to grab a good safety (with the first going to a CB, or other way around, whatever, tremendous flexibility), then it would be an excellent move.

If this is a standalone deal, not part of something larger....this sucks.

I agree with RT, if it's not part of a bigger trade for Cassell, I think they're probably looking at a 4th rounder.

I hate to see Vrabel go. However, this was a buisness decision. Thanks free agency.

Vrabel's a class act and was a big part of all the championships. I'll reserve judgement until it is completed. Maybe a Tony Gonzalez in the mix would be nice.

Mike Vrabel was my favorite Patriot -- smart, versatile, committed, dependable, talented. He was the consummate Bill Belechick player. Call me a sentimentalist, but I don't like this deal, unless they get some real quality in return. Thanks, Mike, you'll be missed.

Peppers is a DL people. Vrabel's an LB. Pepper's isn't going to replace Vrabel. Sheesh some of you have cement for brains.

D Jackson is an idiot. A 4th rounder? You don't trade away a captain for a 4th rounder. That would be insane.

who cares! He is so old, he farts dust

Need to see the whole picture to have an opinion but one thing is clear...Mike Vrabel will be missed here in NE and I wish him all the best.

Mike Vrabel was my favorite Patriot -- smart, versatile, committed, dependable, talented. He was the consummate Bill Belechick player. Call me a sentimentalist, but I don't like this deal, unless they get some real quality in return. Thanks, Mike, you'll be missed.

Youth movement!!!! We all know the Patriots were getting older in the defensive aspect of the team.. yet people are crying 34 year old Vrabel is leaving?? What do you want Patriot fans.. to live in the past glory or watch an aging team breakdown and become average?!

The move was bold and ultimately the right decision!! Good for the Patriots!!

1 year early is better than 1 year late

In Bill I certainly trust. I have been saying amongst my own friends from even his pro bowl season in 2007 that Vrabel has disappeared. Not familiar with it in your mind? Go back and look at when his sacks came in 2007. He disappeared from the 2nd half of that season onward and has not returned to pass rush prominence since. Don't get me wrong I think Vrabel has been a perfect "patriot" player. I just think his time has come. At this point in his career, and after film review of this past season, the coaching staff might think Pierre Woods is a wash with Vrabels "current" skill set. They might also be projecting Crable to fill the void. Who knows. I would not think Vrabel would get us much more than a 4th of 5 th rounder.

Mike did not play well last year and is getting old, so it's a good move. I'd like to know what they are getting and WHEN THEY WILL GET RID OF MATT. They need the cap room..

I am not sure why people are this shocked, nor do I understand why people are thinking of Peppers. Vrabel's production has significantly declined. He is a free agent next year, and he is old. It's time to move on and get something for him while we can. We have Adalius at one OLB spot and 4 guys to fight it for the other - Tully, Woods, Crabel and Redd. Additionally, this draft is loaded with outside linebackers/ d-ends - Connor Barwin, Everette Brown, Brian Cushing, Paul Kruger, Clay Mathews, Clint Stintim and Larry English. Smart move, even if Peppers doesn't come here or Cassel doesn't end up with the Chiefs.

Ray Lewis is done. Junior Seau would be a better option- same production at one-tenth of the cost.

Interesting stuff. Vrabel could end his career in KC and move right onto their coaching staff?!?

I am sorry to say that they will be lucky to get a fifth round choice for mike vrabel. He gave us 8 great years but he has slowed down in past 11/2 years. maybe it's age or maybe injuries. it's time to make the linebacking corps young like mayo. good luck, mike !!!

Come on, lets trust the front office on this one. The Pats do a great job of geting rid of players before they start their decline. Was he a solid, good patriot player. Hell yeah, can we find someone to replace him? Only BB knows. My guess is they got a 3rd and maybe 7th for him. Pioli probably overpaid because he needs some veteran presence on that team. There are some really good looking 3/4 OLB's in this draft, and with Banta -Cain back on the team BB may have found someone he wants to groom to fill Vrabel's shoes?

Hold on, hold on....trust in Master Hoodie......all things will be revealed in due course...until then...don't choke on your pablum...you'll see, we gonna do just fine....DO NOT PANIC!

Hey CJ - If you didn't have cement for brains, you may have read that Peppers has been saying since the season ended that he wants to play in a 3-4 D at the outside rush LB position. So hold off on the smart-a$$ comments

Hey CJ, you are the one that has cement for brains! Peppers is a DL in a 4-3 but he has publicly stated he wants to play OLB in a 3-4, thus his reason for a trade. Anyone who has been following any of this in the last couple of weeks knows this but I'm sure you just forgot or something.

Well be lucky to get a 6th for him. He's 34 years old. Get real.

good one butters... you are an idiot. Im sorry but i really dont get this trade whatsoever. If this is part of something bigger, then im all for it. But if this is just a player for draft picks trade, then i dont get it and frankly i don't agree with it. The guy had been one of the more consistent players on the team and even if they were trying to get younger, he could have been an important veteran force. He has won 3 superbowls with the team and could have been a good veteran presence for the younger guys.

Well be lucky to get a 6th for him. He's 34 years old. Get real.

they haven't had someone in the elephant position since mcginest left. vrabel was a hybrid like mcginest, but in my opinion was losing his step off the edge last season.

this sets the stage for peppers to come in here. he can play elepahnt - up or down off the edge. he's perfect for pats 3-4 scheme...he's not a DL cut out for the 4-3.

taylor deal also buys them a year at rb...so they don't have to use a draft pick on a rb (at least not on day 1). gives maroeny 1 more year to prove himelf.

i like the proactive approach the team is taking. they're trying to prevent the window of opportunity from closing faster than it looked like it may after the defensive showing last year. and really the 16-0 season the defense was 2nd fiddle to the offense bigtime.

#

Ray Lewis is done. Junior Seau would be a better option- same production at one-tenth of the cost.
Posted by bigdanb39

do you actually watch football?

Do you actually watch footb

The reason I am nervous about this deal is because Scott Pioli is on the other end of things here. I know a lot of people are saying that the Pats make the right moves most of the time, but that's when Pioli was on OUR side of the table. I don't see the Patriots getting the upper hand in a deal with Pioli.

You gotta be kidding me....the Pats are built on character, isn't a healthy Vrabel worth the broken down Colvin and Seau we brought in at the end of last year?

What are they going to get for him? Maybe a case of Pabst and some cheap cigars!

My oh my. Peppers can play OLB, in fact he is adamant about playing in a 3-4, and he certainly could not play a two gap DE position in a 3-4, so yes, he'd be a OLB.

Give the Pats and the genius credit. They know when to move players, look at the history. Better to not hold on to long. In BB we trust!

Interesting stuff. Vrabel could end his career in KC and move right onto their coaching staff?!?

The highest pick will be a 5th round this year, maybe a 4th next year if he plays well or resigns with KC. Scott Pioli would never give a 3rd or 2nd round pick for a soon to be 34 year old OLB with 1 year on his contract. People can never understand the true vaule in draft picks for rebuilding teams and the value to have quality at lower controlled cost.

This trade definately means that Julius Peppers is coming to the Patriots. Too many intangibles fit. You trade Vrabel, an outside pass-rushing linebacker. Then there's the whole cap situation. Cassel and Peppers are pretty much a wash money wise(Peppers 16 mil, Cassel 14 mil) Carolina needs a QB after Jake Delhomme's meltdown in the playoffs and the Patriots need help on defense. All I can say is Michael Felger was right again.
BTW, Julius Peppers wants to play "standing up" in the 3-4 defense. He is an undersized D lineman to begin with.

soxfan27. it isn't your job to GET THIS TRADE. You arent the coach. You have no clue. You are speculating just like everyone else. He is 34! It is not a big loss in the grand scheme.

This trade definately means that Julius Peppers is coming to the Patriots. Too many intangibles fit. You trade Vrabel, an outside pass-rushing linebacker. Then there's the whole cap situation. Cassel and Peppers are pretty much a wash money wise(Peppers 16 mil, Cassel 14 mil) Carolina needs a QB after Jake Delhomme's meltdown in the playoffs and the Patriots need help on defense. All I can say is Michael Felger was right again.
BTW, Julius Peppers wants to play "standing up" in the 3-4 defense. He is an undersized D lineman to begin with.

This trade definately means that Julius Peppers is coming to the Patriots. Too many intangibles fit. You trade Vrabel, an outside pass-rushing linebacker. Then there's the whole cap situation. Cassel and Peppers are pretty much a wash money wise(Peppers 16 mil, Cassel 14 mil) Carolina needs a QB after Jake Delhomme's meltdown in the playoffs and the Patriots need help on defense. All I can say is Michael Felger was right again.
BTW, Julius Peppers wants to play "standing up" in the 3-4 defense. He is an undersized D lineman to begin with.

This trade definately means that Julius Peppers is coming to the Patriots. Too many intangibles fit. You trade Vrabel, an outside pass-rushing linebacker. Then there's the whole cap situation. Cassel and Peppers are pretty much a wash money wise(Peppers 16 mil, Cassel 14 mil) Carolina needs a QB after Jake Delhomme's meltdown in the playoffs and the Patriots need help on defense. All I can say is Michael Felger was right again.
BTW, Julius Peppers wants to play "standing up" in the 3-4 defense. He is an undersized D lineman to begin with.

this is a business people..... you ALL need to remember this. He's 34 and came off a down year.

THANK YOU Mike Vrabel for your class and professionalism!!
Good Luck in KC!!

"This trade definately means that Julius Peppers is coming to the Patriots. Too many intangibles fit."

No it does not...I do not see the Patriots giving Peppers a huge long term contract that he so desires. The market was set by the Redskins with Haynesworth in terms of guareented money. So this trade makes nothing clear other than pats trying to get some cap space for a player on his downside and maybe hit on a mid to late round draft pick.

you gotta trust the Hoodie man...expect something better coming up...

I don't know how people can be commenting one way or the other on if it is a good trade. We don't even know what the trade is for.

It's one thing to say "Oh, he's worth a 5th rounder, max" but let's look at it realistically. How many 5th rounders start? Well you've got Trent Cole in Philly....ummmm....Hightower in AZ? He was a 5th, right? Other than that, you've got guys like Dan Orlovsky and Ryan Torrain as the big names. Wow.

Your odds of hitting on a 5th rounder who will even start a game is under 50%, let alone an entire season. Vrabel is a pretty sure bet to at least start the full season. Is he still an elite OLB? No, no he isn't...but he's still a starting-quality player in the NFL, if even for a year. Your odds of getting that in the 5th round have to be less than 5%.

Would it be possible to trade Vrabel and Cassell for Derrick Johnson? I wouldnt mind that so much. How come nobody has mentioned Derrick Johnson?

Its a business, please remember That. Bill B has been most sucessful at managing this process. I would strongly suggest that at the end of the process
we (patriot fans) will be most aesthetic. Take it to the Bank, oops maybe under the matress is a safer place.

I believe this will lead to Julius Peppers coming to New England. Peter King said today the Patriots were the AFC team on Peppers' list of teams he would go to.

This will be one of the more exciting off-seasons in Pats history, feels like the Hot Stove!!

Forget about Peppers for Cassel straight up. If they pay Peppers Cassel's $14 million then they haven't relieved nearly enough cap space to extend the key players whose contracts are expiring after '09. Wilfork would demand breaking the bank if they're going to overpay for Peppers. Just how old is he anyway? I'd rather extend Seymour at a cap friendly contract.

I'd be happier if Vrable's trade is part of a Cassel to KC deal for KC's #2 which is really a #1 at a discount this year.

This is a business, and his number were way down this year. Fewest tackle, sack, assist, etc. in his career and he play his most minutes. Not good production.

Mike was a class act and his leadership will be missed. Unfortunately this team needs most play makers on defense and Mike kind on disappeared this year.

PEPPERS COSTS WAY TOO MUCH YOU ARE ALL NUTS!

Vrabel will be missed, he was what a 'Patriot' is all about it and he was a cornerstone to this nice run they have been on. Best of Luck Mike! Thanks for the good years of service.

this trade makes sense in two ways...

1) depends on the draft pick we got for him. (chiefs 2nd round?)

2) we now have a hole at OLB. does that mean we're trade cassel to the panthers for peppers?

Like most everyone else, "In Bill I trust". Now that being said, I just want to thank Mike Vrabel for a great run. You've been nothing but a class act and a true professional. You epitomize what being a Patriot means today. THANK YOU AND GOOD LUCK!!

No need to panic here folks.

Vrable will be 34 during the course of next season and is one year away from being a free agent.

I imagine a 4th rounder would have been the maximum that the Pats got for him but really, whatever it was, Belichic and Floyd Reese will have been agreeable to it. (yes we have Floyd Reese helping the Pats while Casserio learns the ropes, and Reese is no mug)

People forget that we drafted Crable last year and a lot of people were high on him. I was thrilled when they drafted him and I have high hopes for him for the future.

This years draft is also apparantly loaded with DE's and LB's so you have to believe that the Pats will be able to pick up some good young 'uns in April.

Folks, this isn't the Detroit Lions under Matt Millen making decisions here. These guys know what they're doing. Trust them.

Wow, 79 comments.

...or Samari Rolle? Rumor is he won't take a pay cut at the Ravens, will be traded for a 3rd rounder and is on 4million.

Davo

It's part of something bigger so I can't wait to see what the end result is going to be. Also the Pats lineback corp needs to get signifcantly younger and we have Mayo and Guyton ready to step up to bigger roles anyway.

For those thinking a 5th, 6th, or 7th round pick means nothing. Vrabel might have been cut by most teams to free space..just look at what tampa did this week with brooks, dunn, etc.!!! The pats probably told Piolo and he decided to give a late round pick to ensure he got vrabel under contract instead of competing on the free agent market for the serviceable veteran. So I think the pats get a 5th or 6th. Below late round value picks 5th or later: Dan Koppen, Tom Brady, Adalius Thomas, Mark Bulger, Neil Rackers,Derek Andersen, Chester Taylor, Zach Thomas, Donte Hall, Ahman Green,Terrell Davis etc.................................................

What am I going to do with my number 50 shirt? My favorite player, gone. But the Pats haven't ever been wrong when letting a veteran go, so 'in bill we trust. I'd like to see their 3rd rounder in return -- I think that's fair -- Vrabel is worth a lot to a young KC team.

then butters make that point to begin with dont start with comments such as.. he's so old he farts dust. first off that makes you sound like a complete idiot and then you move on to that gem of What are they going to get for him? Maybe a case of Pabst and some cheap cigars!
make adament points before you come after me big guy. I get he's 34 but he could he has been one of the more consitent players on the team the past 8 years. He could have been a good veteran force.

Truth is Vrabel did not play as well when moved inside and the Pats are clearly in need of a pass rushing outside linebacker and there are plenty of those in the draft.

Would it be possible to trade Vrabel and Cassell for Derrick Johnson? I wouldnt mind that so much. How come nobody has mentioned Derrick Johnson?

Do you mean Larry Johnson? I would think that the signing of Fred Taylor would put the Pats out of the Johnson market.

The Pats probably needed to clear the cap space to fit Peppers into the salary structure just to complete the deal. Then I expect a restructuring to a deal somewhat similar to Adalius Thomas. 5 years, $40-45 million with $25-30 million guaranteed. It costs the Pats $5 million more than Vrabel, but Peppers will be a Merriman-type dominator that this defense has been missing for years. No lock that it will happen, but it makes more sense today than yesterday.

At $4.3mm Vrabel was expensive given the dropoff in production. I thought he was still good as a half a starter on running downs paired with Tully Banta-Cain on passing downs. But for that, even with his off-field contributions, his price was hard to justify. I was hoping they'd extend him for a couple of years and get his cap hit down to around $2mm per year. I suspect he wouldn't go for that and Bill thought the money would do the team more good spent somewhere else. At least with a trade we got something for him rather than just cutting him. At any rate, it's disappointing to see such a great player go.

Everyone relax and let's watch the world turn here a little bit....
Suspecting the Pats would like the M/C deal done sooner as opposed to later with draft choices as an integral part of any transaction so let's see if Vrabel's trade isn't part of a larger, much larger scenario....

I'm hoping this is a very active off-season and in Bill I trust......

I think maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. Gonzalez wants out of KC and Vrabel gives them a red zone TE!

I believe that Cassel is part of the KC deal. Iit will be announced aa soon as they
work out the long term contrat to every ones satisfaction.

Only one comment - how awful!

gonzalez is old and we dont need need

Thanks for the memories Mke!!!

Cassel is gone. THis is obvious. This is part of a deal with KC. Like hjs3 said....let the world turn here a bit. Relax!

Mike Vrabel has sucked for 2 years

@chuckfairbanks

if I recall #1 picks can be signed for an extra year at a rookie level contract, which makes them much more valuable.

Peppers is a very good player.Not Great.He is over rated by the press.He will be over paid where ever he goes. I live in NC. Bill would much rather keep guys like Wilfork, Seymore,Mankins, ect. Then use that much money on Peppers. You guys that keep saying Peppers is coming dont have a clue.I promise you It will never happen.

Yeah, we don't need Gonzalez now that we picked up Baker. Not trying to compare the two (obviously) but it makes no sense to double up on that position.

I dunno. I kinda figured things would start to get a little crazy as soon as the dust settled on the Haynesworth deal, i.e. that taking all of his other suitors out of the running for whatever his cap hit's gonna be leaves a lot of room for some movement for the same teams that could use also use a QB. But if the Chiefs are already giving multiple picks for Vrabel, I have to wonder if they've got anything left in exchange for Cassel. Also, the more I think about it, the more it seems Sage Rosenfel's signing doesn't totally eliminate the Vikings need as much as it communicates their disinterest. They could be bluffing. He's cheap enough, that he could just be insurance. They can let all four QB’s (including Booty) compete through camp and cut the whichever shows the least promise. It wouldn’t be the first time someone got a lot of money just to come to camp (David Terrel). I dunno if I can say the same for the Lions. They probably can’t save much money by cutting either of the Drews. But, if they’re smart, they’ve structured Culpepper’s contract in a way that allows them to keep a healthy Kitna as their real back-up.

Vrabel was a good OLB, but he had lost a step from being the above average OLB. I know many here will disagree, and I understand that. Lets face it though, Vrabel wasn't exactly making game changing plays like he used to.

Defense was the weak point for the Pats last year, even with the back up QB a lock down D would have made that team a serious contender to push deep in the playoffs, because D lost a few important games for the Pats. Charger, Jets, shall I go on.

I'm sorry to see Vrabel go, I liked his style and intensity, but sometimes the best move is to fold the hand you've got save your chips and take the next deal hoping for the deal of the day.

Save the cap space, sign a younger, more explosive player in a deep free agency class, and a deep draft.
Got to thank Vrabel for the memories though...

Ok well i think this sucks but one of the posters has a good point...in bill we trust.....its just painful doing it sometimes you know? I gotta stop getting attached to these players!!!

Peppers is a very good player.Not Great.He is over rated by the press.He will be over paid where ever he goes. I live in NC. Bill would much rather keep guys like Wilfork, Seymore,Mankins, ect. Then use that much money on Peppers. You guys that keep saying Peppers is coming dont have a clue.I promise you It will never happen.

stop hitting the submit button over and over

The beginning of the end of an era! Thanks Mike!

A good soldier, a class act, and a good player in his day. Unfortunately, he was all but invisible on the field last year. His best days are clearly behind him. Pats need to get younger at linebacker so it's a good deal from my perspective.

They need a bigger interior line, starting with Center. Koppen gets pushed around and back into the QB when playing premier NT's in the 3-4. Between that and a slow to non-existent outside LB group, they need to get better.

Their defense was ranked close to the bottom last year. Stop living in the past.

I am not happy about this, I liked how he handled himself on the field. I guess I'm still in shock. I am sure there will be more news like this to come. Good Luck Mike and you were a class act all the way. You will be missed.

STUNNED, but then I think its a good move for Mike. Heading west with Scott P. is probably the beginning for a LB coaching career. Hate to see him go, but I'm sure that BB and Mike have discussed this and will get more than adequate compensation for the deal.

Mike Vrabel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope you see this !! Thanks so much for a great run here. You were one of my favorites----a real class act !!!!!! Good luck, brother !!!! We'll miss you !!

Go Chiefs.

Loved Vrabel, he was a true class act and was one of the core parts of the golden years of the mid 200s. However I'd prefer to get some value now rather than nothing later esspecially if it allows us to move Cassell in a larger deal to KC.

Also, I like that the Pats have been able to take advantage of their strong connections with people that have left the organization for new challenges with other clubs. It's good to know that the mutual respect between Pioli and the pats allows for a deal that will help both clubs.

As for Peppers, I don't see any need. He's athletic and can be an impact player, but i've seen too many games where he simply disappears for prolonged periods.

Some of you guys are insane! How could you think the Chiefs gave the Pats a second round pick? That's practically a 1st rounder where they're picking. If this is a trade all by itself and doesn't involve Cassel, it's probably a 6th rounder.

Some of you guys are insane! How could you think the Chiefs gave the Pats a second round pick? That's practically a 1st rounder where they're picking. If this is a trade all by itself and doesn't involve Cassel, it's probably a 6th rounder.

I have made comments over the past season on the lack on pressure the Ptas have placed on opposing QBs. I've felt that some of the players who have made the greatest impact on the pass rush over the past several years were starting to disappear Vrabel, Seymour and Bruschi most notably. Considering age, salary and sputtering performance, this move may be the first in an attempt to infuse youth and better bang for the buck. Depending on how this void is filled, I think this could wind up being a brilliant move when we look back at it upon season's end. Like any business, occasionally one has to make bold moves to stay ahead of the game.

If we just look at what fans are saying... Many KC fans are saying they hope it's not better than a 6th or seventh rounder. Many parts fans are hoping for at least a fourth(good luck there). So I am going to say that in a good deal no one is entirely happy and no-one is extremely upset. So while I hope they will get a fourth for Vrabel, I am going to predict a 5th rounder.

I am truly a fan of Vrabel, no matter how much af a fan I am of any particular player, I am more of a fan of the Patriots. Besides, the Pats haven't gotten this far by keeping aging fan favorites past their prime. Go Pats... Win or Lose.

Yeah Right Keep dreaming Yankee Faqers!

We'll see how this whole thing works out...
Normally I'd just say "in Bill I trust" and be done with it, but he's dealing with the guy that helped make that a valid statement. For all we know, we could be on the losing end of one of the "Patriot" deals (trades for Moss, Welker, etc.) we've done recently.

Either way drafting an OLB/DE seems more than likely now, but I don't see a deal going down with Peppers. He would ask for too much money and we don't even know how he would transition to a 3-4 OLB in terms of pass coverage. This means he probably wouldn't be an every down player, decreasing his value even more. The Pats would be better off drafting a replacement in the first round, dealing Cassel for another draft pick, and extending key players like Wilfork.

Thanks Mike. It's been a pleasure watching you over the years, you will be sorely missed...The mere definition of a class act...

"In Bill We Trust"

"Below late round value picks 5th or later: Dan Koppen, Tom Brady, Adalius Thomas, Mark Bulger, Neil Rackers,Derek Andersen, Chester Taylor, Zach Thomas, Donte Hall, Ahman Green,Terrell Davis etc................................................."

Yes, you've successfully identified 11 players taken in the fifth round and back from the past 15 years. 11 out of 1440 players (I just multiplied 3 [rounds] by 32 teams by 15 years...and yes, I understand that there were 30 teams for a portion of that period. This is just for a rough estimate). That runs out to less than 1%. The NFL is full of smart guys who hit on picks. You want to take the chance that 31 other teams missed that "diamond in the rough" AT LEAST FOUR TIMES at the expense of Vrabel? I wouldn't.

The chance of finding a player who will be able to consistently provide in the fifth round is practically impossible. Do people get lucky? Sure...but come on. A complete unknown versus a proven commodity? No thank you.

Like I said before: If this is just done for salary cap considerations, because they can't move Cassel, I'm concerned. If this is part of a larger package where Cassel goes away (no offense to him. He did amazingly well, all things considered, and if he turns into a first or even an early second round pick [with possibly a 4th or whatever thrown in {hey, sometimes you might hit on a guy...about 1% of the time}], I'd be excited about it) and frees up some cap space to make some real moves and sign some picks, this was a wonderful move.

Any word on the rumors of Cassel to Tampa Bay deal?

all I can say is that he was a great player for the eight years he was here. Truth be told, he is getting older and a bit slower. Maybe that shoulder injury contributed to it. Nonetheless, we need more production from the OLB position. Knowing the Patriots their set to make a blockbuster move. Keep the faith..

Its a Linbacker heavy draft........ we are trading him for draft picks...... and we have good linebackers that came in last year. The biggest thing here for me is what does this mean for Tedy Bruschi? I think retirement. They are going to hit the draft hard for linebackers, use last years rookies (don't forget Shawn Crable) and go with the newer, faster crew. I think this has NOTHING to do with Cassel at all, and for all you people who say they are crazy, or stupid, or whatever, let me remind you with ONE name. Lawyer Milloy. And hey, 2 more championships without him. The world continues to turn, and Bill Belichick STILL knows how to make good, savvy, workable football decisions.

Don't be sentimental folks, this is a typical BB move. The Pats HAVE to get younger on Defense, while Vrabel still has some gas left in the tank he would have been part of an extremely old linebacking core. No way they can trade AD, makes too much, bruschi has no trade value and is a short timer anyway. I love MV as much as the next guy but this is a business and BB has to look beyond just this year

thanks #50 - you were/are great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't understand this trade. The Pats need all the help they can get on D. Vrabel may have been down a little last year(what player on D wasn't) but the year before had a Pro bowl season. He is still the Pats best Linebacker. They need to add linebackers and defensive backs not trade them. I only hope they make a splash in free agency to replace Vrabel. Why add a running back when the D needs so much help?

Larry,

Can you provide a link or external source for the rumors? I'd be excited about it. Granted, I'd rather get a player...but how often does that actually happen? I understand that NFL guys know way more than I do, but I (like many fans) still have a certain affinity for getting a proven commodity for a proven commodity, rather than an ambiguous "draft pick". Obviously, if it's in the range of guys that a team would be excited about having (regardless of who in that range they get), then great...but if targeting a specific player, that guy could be gone. I guess we don't think like they do, and we certainly aren't privy to the same information.

Heard a rumor today which is completely unsubstantiated so slow down on remarks. ....Cassel to Seattle for their number one this year and a 2nd and 3rd rounder next year. I guess the deal is held up right now because their haggling over picks.

Hasselbeck may never play again and they need their QB of the future.

The graveyard is full of indispensable men.

Charles de Gaulle

Really, to get anything for a guy who is going to be 34 at the start of the season is a coup in my opinion. This is not Las Vegas, there are really clocks and calendars and they all keep moving. It's great to love all these older players, but watch them on your Beatmax, not on the field in 2009.

Mike you will be missed!!

Every year its same history . I mean, Pats cut players and we hope a blockbuster .

Ha!

Blocks never happens . Not in New England .

The Truth will never come out on this! The reason why Vrable got traded is the simple fact he opened his mouth about the players not receiving money's from Patriot Place. It's all about the money that Patriot Place represents and Vrable was the players rep for the NFL Union on the Patriots. It is a brilliant move by Kraft to keep him quite. Now Kraft get's to keep that money too because no other players will want to be traded for opening their mouths. He is my favorite player and I rememeber him syaing "I belive the Patriot Players should be paid for a complex name Patriots Place" during the year and I said to myself "Bad Move V..You are a goner"

Great move. I love Vrabel, but he is all done--just like Willie McG. I love that Bill B. is willing to move pieces while he can still get some value for them--just like Theo and Hoyer have learned to do for the Sox. BB has much more planned. Stay tuned.

Bill knows what he is doing. The Pats have to get younger, faster, and tougher to compete with the Steelers, Colts, Ravens, etc. Mike was great. He is part of the Patriot's "past" (and we thank him for his superior play and leadership), but he is not part of the Patriots; "future". I, too, think this is part of a larger deal (plan). Let's see what unfolds...but whatever it is...I suspect it will make the Pats a better team.

The simple fact is that Vrabel is more valuable to Kansas City right now than he is to New England. He has lost a step in recent years, and while he is a consumate professional and a great leader he is on a team full of consumate professionals and leaders. The defense needs to get younger and faster, and that means some of the older players who aren't quite getting it done anymore are going to be gone.

Kansas City gets a great leader for their young team (youngest in the NFL last season, if I remember correctly). They aren't in a position to challenge for a title this year, so they aren't looking for Vrabel to be an All-Pro caliber talent. They need him to help establish a foundation of winning and a strong work ethic, which he is perfectly suited to do. In my eyes that makes this trade a win-win for both sides, as the Patriots clean up some cap space and get a draft pick, while KC gets a strong veteran voice to help build a woeful franchise from the bottom up.

Good luck Mike you were the best and still are, I think it was a mistake to move you on, Some times I just don't understand the reasons that the coach and thoes people tbat are in the ffont office do things I still like you bercause you always worked so hard. Good Luck.

As a Chief fan, if we gave up anything more than a conditional 7th, I'll be pissed.

Mike Vrabel will go down in Pats history as a huge building block in the foundation of the success of the defense that has recently been demonstrably declining. Players like Mayo, Woods ,Guyton and even Crable are going to be the next group of LBs to pick up the shield and lead into the next decade of defensive monsters like Vrabel, Bruschi, Thomas and Seau have meant to this team. I felt that Mike was an irreplaceable cog in this machine but BB's militaristic philosphy of training all players in multiple roles has proven extremely successful. The NFL rush to learn from the Pats is evident by all the coaching raids placed on this highly succesful franchies

This is just just the first part of a two part trade. Cassel goes to the Chiefs next.

Right on not Frank Mike Vrable wore out his welcome here He was A PAIN IN THE ASS and on the way down. I do respect the fact that he was a big help during the Super Bowl runs. He will join Willy Mac on the ex Pats backers heap. Loud mouth Willie has been setting the world on fire at the Dawg pound. Winslow would have been nice if we had the cap room and Mangina was not there. The only thing Mangenious would send BB is the staff infection in the Cleveland Browns locker room.

CJ - Besides the fact that Peppers has personally stated that he'd like to play OLB in a 3-4, the list of 4-3 DEs who have converted to 3-4 OLB is so long I'm surprised you'd make such a foolish comment. I mean Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinnest, Rosevelt Colvin, and Mike Vrabel, guys you presumably watched on a weekly basis, are all former DEs. Do your homework before you insult people...

As for Peppers - I've been a HUGE Peppers fan since he was playing in Chapel Hill so the thought of him suiting up for the Patriots makes me giddy. The Vrabel trade leaves an opening at OLB, more specifically the pass-rushing OLB spot, so it appears that there's a fit. Having said that, I'm won't get my hopes up because I get the impression that he's looking for a huge payday (I have nothing to back this up it's just my perception. I could be way off.) and as we all know, the Patriots will pay deserving players, they just won't make anyone the highest paid player at their respective position.

This is just curious.... not big. Mike V. has been a great Patriot...more than earning his money. Part of me says its a favor to Pioli, giving him a veteran that knows the Patriot way and can help teach the Chiefs how to win. He's no superstar, he's a man. He will be missed but the Pats are bordering on getting old and its time to turn the roster over before it becomes a rebuilding environment. But in the end...it makes me curious...hardly a Wow.

Hey Mike, as we know its never just one thing - have you given any thought to Vrabel's prominent role in the player's union as another possible factor in the team's decision to separate now? Especially with the CBA expiration approaching,? I'm recognizing Vrabel's solid citizenship of course, but this has occurred to me this afternoon.

Tampa rumor is not true. This guy has been spreading rumor claiming it came from Adam Schefter in other boards......

wow......I'm shocked at the amount of people who are upset about trading Vrabel.........the guy is all done, trust me he will just fade away in Kansas City......just like Wille McGinest, Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law, etc..etc... faded away when they left.....All year long I watched vrabel come off the edge to rush the passer and all year long I watched him get engaged by a blocker and STAY ENGAGED with the blocker. He couldn't shake them.....good move by the Pats. Vrabel is old and slow.......Tedy Bruschi will be the next to go soon.........get over it people, NOBODY defeats Father time.....time for the Pats to make some changes or end up 4-12

The trade has not been confirmed by either TEAM, correct? The only confirmation was from Vrabel. I'm not saying there's a chance that Vrabel stays in New England, but I think this is a clue that this is just the beginning of a huge deal between Pioli and Belichick.

Thanks Mike!

No way the Pats go after Peppers, too much money, (they will need it to resign Wilfork and probably Seymour) and besides he is not there type of player, negotiating through the media and demanding a trade.
The Panthers really worked moving him around on the D-line to keep him productive and now he is extorting a trade.
Saying he wants to play outside linebackers is just a ploy to increase the number of eligible suitors.
There are alot of OLB/DE in this years draft, that's the direction they will go to replace Vrabel.
Love the Baker move.

Mike was a great player, made tons of key plays, and Represented the Pats! But he lost a step in the past few seasons. And don't forget the Pats lost the AFC Championship to Indy and the Super Bowl to the Giants because the defense could not stop a touchdown drive in the closing minutes of the game. Plus he's too much of a union guy and especially with those rediculous comments about players taking profit from Patriot Place, hey Mike, throw some of your money into the deal and we'll talk about. I don't know how well you would do in the Dreaded Private Sector if you did not have superior natural athletic skills, you'd see how hard it is out there.

Go Steelers!

SAY IT AIN'T SO !!!!!!!!!!!

As for Peppers not being a "Patriots-type Player"...and taking plays off....and publicly expressing his displeasure......doesn't that sound alot like another current Patriots, namely Randy Moss?

How is Julius Peppers any different?

What THATS CRAZY GET HIM BACK is Kraft on drugs GET MIKE V BACK OR GET RID OF ROBERT KRAFT whats the guy on drugs You don't trade Vrabel He is to valuableto the Patriots staff STUPID MOVE GET HIM BACK

Pats should have dumped Thomas. He hasn't done squat since he was next to Ray Lewis. Would have been a bigger salary dump, and less risk to the continuity of the defense

I don't know what the Patriots have in mind and what kind of dominos are being set in motion with this move. However, I DO know that I will DEFINITELY miss watching Mike Vrabel play. Mike, I doubt you read these comments but if you do I hope you know just how much Patriots fans like me appreciate all that you did for the organization. You will NEVER be forgotten by Patriots Nation. You have been an integral part of one of the Greatest Runs in NFL history and THE Greatest in Patriots History. THANK YOU and best of luck to you and your family. You will ALWAYS be a beloved member of the New England Patriots!

the next 12 months without Pioli will be interesting. He had an eye for players and leadership and we never gave him his due, now he picks up Mike for a song, good thing we can go back to scoring 45 points a game

Thanks for Pioli, thanks for Vrabel; the chiefs need a defensive leader and he fits the bill. Cassel your next. The next dynasty is in Kansas City.

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget Kurt W is free agent, he will end up with KC. Cassell for Peppers is very realistic. Peppers does fit in this defense anyone who don't think so is nuts. He's athelic enough to play in different roles which BB is big on. I've watched him play for the last three years in Carolina and he can be great he just can't do it on his own which was the situation down in Carolina. Don't be surprised if you see BB sign another big time defensive player along with Peppers. Seymour will be gone after this year and they will end up signing Wilfork. This will be part of a longer term plan. Players will restructure contracts and BB will work his magic. Mayo had a great year because he was able to run and make plays. The reason for that is because the D-line was doing there job for them to make plays. I hate to say it I can see Ray Lewis too. That' s right Lewis and Peppers. Why not? They signed several big time free agents with the offensive also a big time defensive player a few years ago. They will get a good return for this trade be it draft pick or free agents

If Vrabel doesn't blast Kurt Warner in the face in the super bowl vs. St. Louis Ty Law doesn't have a pick 6 and we lose the super bowl again. He also scored 2 touchdowns in the following super bowls. He deserves to be in the Patriots hall of fame,

VRABLE = AGING TEAM CAPTAIN
CRABLE = UNPROVEN IR ROOKIE
VRABLE = CRABLE?
CRABLE = 3RD ROUND
VRABLE = UNDISCLOSED DRAFT PICK = 3RD ROUND?

Bloody ridiculous. One great Patriot now a Former Patriot!

What in the world is Belicheck and Kraft thinking? I really do not care IF they get Ray Lewis or Julius Peppers or anyone else.

Mike Good luck!

It won't be long before Mike Vrabel will be standing back at Gillette Stadium on the field as the Pats some day honor the veterans of their Super Bowl championships. It is a good move for Mike and I wish him the best.

Two predictions: Vrabel plays for three more year in KC before he transitions into coaching and eventually becomes the coach at Ohio State, and the Pats pick up Jonathan Vilma and expend a number 1 draft pick for another linebacker.

Mike Vrabel,

I hope you know how much you meant to the NE Patriots and their fans. You are a class act on and off the field. A true Grid Iron Warrior, with a brain. You have single handidly altered the outcome of more than one big game with truly awesome clutch plays too numerous to list. Definately a Patriots HOF.
Unfortunately, it makes complete sense, as KC needs character guys like Wall Street needs some ethics. Pioli and Co. are gonna clean house and start over. Look for KC to trade some of their own aging stars to bolster their own draft prospects.

Given what we know at this juncture,it is nearly an inexplicable move.One can only hope that is the first of one or more interrelated deals.Either that or Bill is trying to give Scott a leg up in his new job;which seems as likely as the coach giving candid and detailed reports on every Patriots injury or sending the coach of their upcoming opponents their situational game plans a few days before they meet.

I am sooo pissed! Vrabel is what held the defense together this past season! He's an amazing play on both sides of the ball! There's no one worth getting if it meant losing Vrabel!!

TJ - Vilma re-signed with New Orleans this afternoon so he's not an option (I made a similar prediction earlier today).

I seriously doubt this trade was made because of Vrabel's salary cap hit (which is not much at around $4M over each the last 4 seasons) or his Patriot Place comments (I certainly hope this didn't factor into this move). I think it's strictly a case of cashing in on an aging player before he loses all of his value. I still believe its also a precursor for something bigger, whether it be a Julius Peppers trade, Matt Cassel trade, or the signing of a UFA LB. Time will tell I suppose...

Of course there's a Plan; Bill always has a Plan. But this time there's an ingredient in the mix that even Bill can't be sure of: Mr. Bundchen's knee. All the doctors are saying the right things, but the proof's on the field. And if that knee can't hang, and trading Cassel was part of the Plan, we're going to be between a rock and a hard place. It'll be a long season.

A combination of Vrabel & Cassel for the Chief's 1st and 3rd makes sense. Its plausible that the Pats are angling for Aaron Curry with the Chief's first round pick. The round (or year) of the pick associated with Vrabel and the inclusion of Cassel in the deal might depend on whether Curry is on the board at 3. That deal would make me happy.

Man you gotta hope that this trade is part of something bigger...namely Mike Vrabel and Matt Cassel for a 3-4 rounder and the number 3 overall pick. That would give the Pats more flexibility in the draft and possibly taking a guy like Aaron Curry. I think that this would be the only way to get sufficient value for Vrable. It just doesnt make sense for them to trade a player who has been a locker room presence, team captain, starter, and Pro-Bowler over the past 8 seasons for a pick as low as the 5th round. As for Peppers, I say leave him out of it as he is too expensive and could interfere with Wilfork and others being resigned. Also...is anybody else mad about the team letting go of Lonnie Paxton like I am?

ouch!! I agreew/mike m #90. I live in "Buckeye Country" and the Pats are despised here! the only reason I can wear my Pats shirt is the name above
the 350 !! and you dont cross Mr. K, just ask Steve Grogan!!

I am reading both Chiefs and Pats comments and it's amazing how different the views and values of Vrabel and Cassel are. Chiefs fans want it to be a 2nd and 4th for Casssel and Vrabel and Pats fans are leaning at least our #3 and our 3rd rounder. I think we are lucky to add Vrabel. Big gain for KC.

Thank you Mike Vrabel for all you have done for the pats! A class guy!
I think this is just making very hard decisons about where to take this defense, it has to change sometime and older players need to move on. I am sure Mike Vrable has a few good years left in him....but lots of young talent - like Crable need an opportunity to play.

wow,,
that's your "analysis'????

"the answer to that question remains open-ended"?????

great job.
thanks.

Makes no sense!
Unless they had to do it in order to send Cassel later on.
But Vrabel is the heart and soul of this team and still a good player, so i don't see the point.

These are the days you hope will never happen. But, football is a business. I hope that Mike will take this in stride. He was and still is a true champion. I won't count him out. We'll see him again. BET ON IT!!!!

We'll miss you Mike!! That being said...The Pats needed to get younger on defense and this is only one of what I feel will be several moves with that goal in mind. We have a great offense and anybody who has watched the Patsies for the last couple years know that we have to improve on the defensive side of the ball. I don't like to see Mikey V go but I'll hold comment till after free agency and the draft.
I do believe in The Hoodie and am anxious to see what happens over the next couple months.

Pioli is pulling a class Bill Parcell's move here.

Leave Dodge and take your favorite players with you.

I think they have to work on there defense more now than ever.It is getting too old and hurt to carry this team. It is nice to see alot of points on the board but you have to stop the other team to win and the old defese had a hard time doing it and they are only getting older and slower .

for the little money he made, they should have made him a TE, he would be better than Ben Watson. And that way you would have a backup LB if you needed it. Thus using his amazing flexibility. His pass rushing really declined last year.

I was shocked to say the least of Vrabel going to KC, will miss the hands in the end zone. Like someone wrote, in bill we trust right?

Hey Jonas,

the biggest need on the team is defense. Especially at Linebacker and CB.
Why would they trade Vrabel, a solid contributor who was injured last year and wasn't able to play at 100%, if there isn't something bigger on the horizon? BB wouldn't just trade Vrabel for a "mid to late round pick" and leave an even bigger gapping hole in his defense. Plus we have a first, 2 seconds, 2 thirds not really in need of more picks. There are only so many players you can afford to draft and only so many spots on the team for them. If this trade is it, then our team has gotten worse not better. Not the BB way.

For me I think it's clearing up space for Peppers. I think he could be good in rotation with the other OLBs but not every down. I think we should atleast get a 2nd round pick for Vrabel, even though there's no price on leadership. What he brings to the locker room is much more than a second rounder though, I don't know if anyone agrees with me on that but it's true.

I'd love to see them keep cassel and trade brady. the biggest return is in the hottest player. With brady in the news for all his off feild activitys, its like gettig free adverizing. brady is a teriffic player, so are all the nfl players. thats why they are in the nfl. Trading brady would return the highest value for both teams involved. I would go as far as trading brady to the ny jets. yes the jets. with two games next season with the jets: wow what games and hype there would be.

We'll Cassel was part of the deal after all...I don't think this trade has anything to do with peppers directly, The pats didn't get = value but it was done because of time...BB wanted to get the best deal at the moment...He wanted the space to land peppers or lewis simple as that...It is part of something bigger but no matter what we didn't get = value...but then again put yourself in KC ppl's shoes...cassel had 1 good year...a lot of QB's have 1 good year and then suck...So KC didn't want to take a chance with a 1st round pick = 3rd overall...Makes sense...can't blame them or the pats on this trade and the values involved...at 6-7 peppers would be a monster at OLB...gives him more ability to pass rush and play zone = more picks as he only has 4 carrer INT's...i guess well see in the comming week or so! Thanks Vrabel...U will be missed!