Differing views of Cassel trade still resonate

Still an awful trade.

I thought that this was a horrible trade the day it was made, and three months later, it stinks even worse. The trade of Jay Cutler to the Bears, and the compensation package for him, really made the Cassell trade look even worse. Especially when you throw in Vrabell. Just a pathetic deal, and the Patriots know it. There is no way to spin this into a successful deal from the Patriots point of view. At the very least, the Patriots should have gotten Larry Johnson, Tony Gonzolez, or more picks.

The second rounder for Cassel isn't what stinks, because I agree with Mike, that was probably his market value. However, the fact that the Pats threw in Vrabel is what still steams me. I don't care what his cap number was, now they have no one with any experience at OLB. We can only hope one of the kids steps up big time, or else there is a glaring hole at OLB.

I love that trade. Between the cap savings, the influx of new talent that the cap savings made possible and the opportunity to promote O'Connell, this was a well played maneuver.

Good idea for an article Mike. I feel like I'd have to re-watch every Cassel snap in order to really reassess the trade now. Its either that or we can wait and see. At any rate it seems like the Patriots made a lot of moves this offseason, none of which really made me say "wow!" but when I look at the big picture, who they lost and who they added, that's when you say "wow, this could be a great team."

The trade looks worse than it is because it is easy to think that the Chiefs got the "players" Cassel and Vrabel for a second round pick, instead of seeing that Chiefs got the rights to two players for a certain length of time along with their contractual obligations.

As we know, the Patriots had no rights to Cassel at the end of last season and by tagging him got the very expensive right to play him for one season, and managed to turn that into a high draft choice by tossing in Vrabel's expensive contract.

But really, why are the Pats playing in Indy again this year?

People really think that the Pats deserved more for an old linebacker and a quarterback with 1 year experience and a $15,000,000 salary? What did you want - some package of 2 first round picks and more? The Pats probably did the best they could, when you consider what they were giving up. Vrabel is overvalued by fans here in a Trox Nixon kind of way (gritty white guy) and Cassel is overvalued by fans because of his age. Sure, he's yound and (not very) proven, but for $15 million, there's anot a lot of value.

Mike,

A 2nd round pick for the chance to acquire a franchaise quarterback? 15 mil is chump change. Look at what the 49'ers dished out to Alex Smith.

The worst thing that can happen for KC is if Cassel has an amazing year this year and then falls of a cliff after he signs a multi-year guaranteed contract. Do you really think thats going to happen? Cassel trained under TOM BRADY. He got to see every day how Tom trained, what it takes to be a champion and become an eleite quarterback. Do you really think hes going to abandon what works?

I believe that due to all the circumstances, ie. Cassel's cap cost & the need to move quickly to be able to bring in free agents, it was a good trade for Cassel ONLY. Vrabel's knowledge, leadership & versatility PLUS his ability to mentor the young LBs is going to be difficult if not impossible to replace!

People want Belichick to make Dan Snyder moves and think this stunk. Well, to naysayers and people who don't understand money it was a great trade.

We'll see how Cassel performs but in order to appreciate it from the Pats side you need to take into account the free agents the Pats were able to sign when they freed up the cap space. It's been said so much but for some reason gick still can't understand that.

Personally I think both teams benefited from it - the Chiefs got some leadership on D from a player who was due a huge bonus and may have started slipping a bit in his play. And maybe the Chiefs got a serviceable QB. Couch potatoes - you know not what you opine.

I think Matt Cassel is still and unknown and unproven commodity. It will be interesting to see how he performs in a system where he has to be creative and where he is throwing to a receiving corps significantly inferior to what he had with the Patriots. He did a great job last year, but he is not Jay Cutler and the compensation packages in the trades should not be compared. The Chiefs have taken a chance putting the future of the franchise on Cassel's shoulders. The Patriots considered the move part of a much larger picture. Losing Vrabel was tough just because he is someone you'd like to see retire as a Patriot because he has been such a part of the Patriots' success.

In real estate they say "location, location, location." In this trade, timing is everything. Good deal all around.

If (God forbid) Brady is crocked again in 2009- would the Pats consider an end of season swoop for F.A. Matt Cassel I wonder?

Then the original trade would work out to be Vrabel for Chung....a bargain it would seem...

You people are crazy. Why do you think you know more than Belichick? You're all haters and no nothing about the inner-workings of this deal. Furthermore, word is (and perhaps Mike can confirm or deny this rumor) that Vrable might have been cut outright anyhow because he slowed down so much last year. Just like a deal at the baseball trading deadling - a player who is not under a long-term contract (unlike, say, Jay Cutler) never garners much in return. Belichick has won us 3 Super Bowls and was a split-hair away from a 4th and a perfect season. This guy is the best in the business folks. Quit whining.

One issue that I have not heard discussed is Scott Pioli's knowledge of Belichek's thinking. Clearly, rightly or wrongly, Belichek believed Vrabel's value had declined. Pioli must have known that. This would have reduced Belichek's bargaining leverage when Pioli requested Vrabel to be included in the Cassel deal.

OK bottom line is the fact that Cassel was probably not that highly rated by the Pats. Think about the fact that he pretty much sucked until the last 6 games, and he was throwing to two all pro receivers. Comparing him to Cutler is a true sign of idiocy. Vrable needed to go anyway. 4 Sacks?? come on guys... stop drinking the cool aid... trade was good...

INSANITY.

It ought be crystal clear to all who have observed his machinations, ere the last decade, that Coach Belichick's mastery of Timing, of Value, and of the Salary Cap, are such as has never before been seen.

To consistently produce a team, year after year after year, that is RELENTLESSLY atop the very highest pantheon of the entire Game, despite the horrifically corrosive effects of the Salary Cap, particularly considering how unforgivingly ACUTE its effects are on the most elite of teams...is utterly awe-inspiring.

And to bring this current team forward, deeper, more talented, by far, and simply more dangerous, by far, than any he's yet assembled in this Decade of Dominance, eclipses my ability to praise it.

And yet there are still the INCALCULABLY stupid...who think we actually got FLEECED by that trade!!!

If you need to have it explained to you that it goes without saying that Coach Bill explored every option before making his move ~ ergo: The MARKET VALUE of Matt Cassell ~ he of the 1 year of experience and the ENORMOUS salary ~ was PRECISELY what he got for him...then you REALLY shouldn't be operating heavy machinery.

And if you need to have it explained to you ~ AGAIN!!! ~ that, in light of the report, last month, that the Falcons offered us the 33rd for Cassel straight up ~ and we turned it down! ~ which merely corroborates what all should've already known: at his age, his rapidly declining skills, and his bloated Salary, our beloved Vrabel was, literally, worth LESS than nothing on the Market, and was an impediment to filling out a roster with depth of talent and skill...then you are simply beyond help.

This FANTASY that Vrabel had ANY Market Value is ASTOUNDING, coming from such a well-informed and thoughtful fan base.

Coach Bill pulled a flat out COUP, unloading him to ~ quite probably ~ the ONLY team who's leadership knew Vrabel well enough to be willing to take on the whole salary. We need Youth, Speed, Size, and Fire Power at OLB. With Crable, Redd, and Woods, we have it. And with Hyphen and ~ quite possibly ~ a fully recovered Colvin still available, we've actually got LOADS of depth there, praise the Gods!

Let Thomas play 16 games at full speed on the Outside, with young firebrands like Crable, Redd, and Woods tearing it up from the other side and spelling him, and perhaps a fully recovered Colvin finding Late Career Magic, on relatively fresh legs and reduced stress load, as I have a funny feeling he WILL...and a LOT of folks are gonna be PRAYING their posts on these pages are forgotten!!! Hah!

Fanatical Yankee - I agree with a lot of things you said, but your logic is still critically flawed... If we need youth, speed, and firepower so badly at LB then why is the abysmal Teddy Bruschi still in a Pats uniform? He has none of those qualities and is FAR less productive on the field than Vrabel. And for those who say he brings leadership, I'd be more than happy to see him in a coaching position, but lets not forget that he's still our starting ILB.

I view the success of this trade to how Patrick Chung develops as a player because I view the trade as Cassel and Vrabel for Chung. If Chung can have a Rodney like presence in the Secondary and evolve into a Bob Sanders/Kerri Rhodes type of player the trade then I think this trade was a win for the pats.

Yankees fan is right.

We only owned the rights to Cassel for 1 year. And had to pay him 14M or 15M. That's not "chump change", that's more than Brady makes. And how good is he really? When he's not throwing to 2 all pros? Who knows. I was worried the pats would get stuck with him. What do they do the following year? Franchise him again for 17M?

We had the rights to Vrabel for 1 year at 2+M. That is a worthless contract, he would likely be cut.

People are looking at a player only, not the player + contract requirements. Would you trade a 1st round pick for DeMarcus Ware? "Oh, boy would I!!". How about if you had to pay him 20M? And cut half your team to fit him under your cap? Now how is it? Duh! Try to think a little bit.

This is why Peppers hasn't been traded. Peppers is a good/great player, but Peppers at 17M per year....no thanks. I wouldn't take him for nothing with that contract.

Yet all the idiots in NC thought they'd get 2 #1s for him, or some such nonsense.

Why is Bruschi still on the team? Don't know, maybe he'll retire in camp, you never know.

Craig writes >

"Fanatical Yankee - I agree with a lot of things you said, but your logic is still critically flawed... If we need youth, speed, and firepower so badly at LB then why is the abysmal Teddy Bruschi still in a Pats uniform? He has none of those qualities and is FAR less productive on the field than Vrabel. And for those who say he brings leadership, I'd be more than happy to see him in a coaching position, but lets not forget that he's still our starting ILB."

Craig, my man, we need youth, speed, and firepower precisely BECAUSE Teddy Ice Cold Bruschi is still in a Patriots uniform, buddy!! HELLO???

No offense, Craig; you're a good man. But you could not POSSIBLY have made my “critically flawed” point FOR me any BETTER!!!

And yet you think MY logic is flawed??? WHAT???

I started campaigning to get Bruschi and Vrabel replaced and/or demoted the day after the season ended, and have dedicated SEVERAL posts, around these parts, fairly SCREAMING for the need to replace them both. And in not ONE post have I EVER projected Teddy higher than 4th on the depth chart, even if it meant leaving an empty hole above him! We're talking about NEXT year's starters, and it's foolhardy to assume the guy gets the job, especially now, with Guyton AND Lenon aboard!

No offense, bro, but I can't even IMAGINE how I could've been any clearer. So it's a little irritating when you describe my logic as "critically flawed"...and then IMMEDIATELY PROVE MY POINT!!! ~ And do so by repeating what I've said for months, and reiterated, TODAY!!!

But, uh...thanks for the kind words, as well! :oP

Great points, Kenny B.

Many people seem mystified that we gave Vrabel away, when we were actually lucky and skillful to be able to do so, with his age, production, and bloated contract! Likely cut? Absolutely, and a very important point that hadn't been brought up.

Excellent point about Peppers, as well. Thank JEEBUS we didn't go after him! I'd've been shocked, mind you: Coach Bill didn't build this Dynasty by being dumb. I admire the Panthers ~ and Peppers himself, for that matter! ~ but those boys are SCREWED with that contract. It's PARALYZED them.

And I've also considered that he might retire in camp. Frankly, I think it'd be an improvement, and I'm COMPLETELY in accord with Craig on this ~ I really meant it when I said he was a good man! :oP ~ I would LOOOOVE to see Teddy Ice Cold bring his Ferocity, Focus, Persistence, and Resilience to the Coaching Staff!

*Does anyone want to take a guess as to how many ILBs and OLBs we retain, this year? Not including the Spec Team guys, that is?

*By the way, and just for the record: I am, strictly speaking, a DEVOUT Yankees Fan...but only in the CORRECT sense...which is to say: I'm a fan of the Yankees..and am, indeed, FANATICAL about BEING a Yankee...

And a Yankee, of course, is a native of New England.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.

There is NO such thing...as a Yankee from NEW YORK.

Never HAS been.

Never WILL be.

It was we Yankees...and we Yankees, ALONE...who fired The Shot Heard Round the World.

It was we YANKEES...who started the first Revolution in this history of this WORLD...that was neither religious, nor national, but predicated on, and devoted to...LIBERTY.

We stood up to the greatest Empire in the WORLD...and our raw courage and fanatical dedication inspired the REST of what would become AMERICA...to JOIN us...in the Revolution that create the greatest bastion of Liberty ~ yes, the first nation whose entire reason for being IS Liberty! ~ in world History...a nation that would lead the entire WORLD ~ ahem! Eventually! ~ to FREEDOM.

ONLY New England can claim that Honor. Only we YANKEES...can claim that Heritage.

So...YEAH...I'm a bit FANATICAL...about BEING a Yankee.

Our collective character has been SO pronounced, and SO dramatic...that it's left its indelible mark SO deeply on this greatest of ALL nations...that, indeed, "Yankee" has become, to many, synonymous with "American".

And our baseball rivals down New York way became infected, 90 years ago, now, with SUCH an acute case of raging jealousy ~ of Yankee Envy! ~ that they took to calling themselves by OUR name!!!

Pretty freaking PATHETIC, if you ask ME.

And I have NO intention of validating that delusion. I am DEAD serious, and I don't care if every last one of my fellow Yankees bows their head and continues to validate this pathetic display.

We earned an heritage, on the Common of Lexington, the Bridge at Concord, the road back to Boston, at Bunker Hill, upon the storming of Fort Ticonderoga, and the expulsion ~ yes! the EXPULSION! ~ of the RedCoats from Boston, itself!

The AWE INSPIRING courage of this UNSPEAKABLE defiance gave courage to an entire NATION, which dared, only after our shocking and ferocious leadership, to stand as one and declare its collective defiance against the tyranny of the greatest empire in the world!

We, ALONE...have earned the right to call ourselves YANKEES.

Um...other'n that, I have no strong feelings on the subject! :oP

Pats did the right thing. Matt Cassell will be out of his job as the KC starter by game 5 or 6. His season last year was an anomily. He is not a bona fide NFL starting QB, and never will be.

It wont take long for KC fans to boo him off of the field.

i've wondered since this deal was made if the pats asked Vrabel to re-do his deal and he declined ... any thoughts mike?

You didn't stand up to anything. You didn't earn anything. You just live in New England.

Can we trade Fanatical Yankee and his random capitalizations?

Heh! Like I said: When I speak of Yankee (ergo: New England) pride, there are MANY exceptions, chumps like Matt and Vicky being cheif among them! :oP

Fanatical Yankee - I think we're both on the same page. I retract my 'critically flawed' comment. I hadn't read any of your posts before and figured you were another typical Pats fan who wanted to cover up (or at least not address) the fact that Bruschi is no longer pulling his weight.

Mike, Thanks for the info as always. I have to give you KUDOS because of your outstanding work. I don't know of any other writer who combines local knowledge so seamlessly with the daily writings from around the country and it's really helpful. You often provide pros and cons on different subjects on top of your own well informed opinion. It's made me a fan of many of the different regional papers (online) which made me wonder? Do these writers enjoy the attention or do they go crazy from all of Boston yahoos badgering them? Either way. I liked the trade and BOSTON LIKES MIKE REISS!

Mike wrote >

"Fanatical Yankee - I think we're both on the same page. I retract my 'critically flawed' comment. I hadn't read any of your posts before and figured you were another typical Pats fan who wanted to cover up (or at least not address) the fact that Bruschi is no longer pulling his weight."

Mike, thanks for taking the time to write this! Very gracious of you, sir, and I do agree: We are VERY much on the same page regarding our beloved dinosaur, Teddy Ice Cold Bruschi: As a Middle LineBacker, he makes one HELL of a Coach! :oP

The reality is that BB took a huge risk by franchising Cassel in the first place. Had he let Cassel walk, BB picks up a third round comp pick in 2010, given the assumption that Cassel easily makes more than any other free agent signing, except Haynesworth. Until he unloads Cassel, BB can't sign any high value free agents, and the potential benefit BB gets from the improved draft pick is offset by the lost opportunities and benefit by signing the high value free agents. With each passing week the value of the lost opportunities would increasingly offset the value of the improved draft pick. Yes, BB can reinvest the monies into extending Wilfork, Mankins, etal, and have a warchest to replenish the roster when the inevitable injury bug hits in the season, but that doesn't help us this year, when NE really has a great shot of another SB trophy this year.
Between the signings and the draft, special teams have been beefed up, the running back position has been beefed up. Most importantly, the secondary has been beefed up. The only worries posters have lately is at linebacker, where NE has two solid starters, Thomas and Mayo, and question marks on the other two spots. And there is reason for optimism even in that area.

Does the value of the pick, plus the value of the free agents NE signed more than equal the value NE gave up. Absolutely! Good Trade!