OLB comparison

Mike

Do you have any info. on what's wrong with Crable, or is the team tight lipped as usual

Mike, that's a good job putting it into perspective. You're really just substituting TBC for Vrabel. Now, when compared to 2007 when we had Colvin, Vrabel, AD and Bruschi as our starting four there is a more significant drop off. It's too bad Colvin got banged up when he did...

Re: Crable - Strained eyelid. He's out for the season.

Craig, I think you answered your own question

Thus far, the offseason move to upgrade OLB has been basically to trade Tully Banta-Cain for Mike Vrabel.

Sometimes I wonder why the Patriots are so relucanat to gamble on linebackers in the draft as they appear willing to do at other positions like QB, TE or Special Teams.

That might be the worst LB core in the NFL. Good luck with that group LOL!

Comparing it to the 07 LB group its very weak. Comparing it to last years all that lost is the leadership in Vrabel.

Vrabel and the Pats parting ways was going to happen and everyone in the area who watched the team knew it. The dead weight has been dropped and the LB group at that outside spot has gotten younger and faster.

Now its time to see if they can play. Harrison believes in Woods but sadly I dont and I think this was Crables job to win but he totally lost it with this injury and depending on how long it keeps him out. Crable will be warming the bench barring a Woods injury which right now isnt out of the question.

We'll be going with a Warren, Wilfork, Brace & Seymore front - with AD, Brusci & Mayo behind them
I've got confidence in Mayo In or Out & think I'll really mess with DC's heads by abandoning the 3-4...

Truly pathetic LB core. I hope they do something to right this wrong.

Mike,
I don't think the LB situation will be as bad as we think. Last year, the Pats ran a lot of 4-2-5, 3-3-5, and 4-1-6 on 2nd & 3rd down. With those alignments, you really don't need all those LB's. Also Tank Williams and Patrick Chung, the Pats could use those them as hybrid LB's.

Methinks we may be spoiled by the comparative depth of DBs, DL, RB, etc. 2009 Pats LBs may be bringing up the the rear, but any LB corps with AD and Mayo is NOT "pathetic".

Also, don't rule out further evolution at OLB between now and trading deadline.

"any LB corps with AD and Mayo is NOT "pathetic" "

QFT
some folks are making it sound like these two guys don't exist...

Yeah Ludigi, I'm not saying its where they want it to be, but I remember a LB corps not too long ago that was depending on Monty Beisel, with Vrable playing out of position at ILB, with Eric Alexander the most promising reserve.

Glenn - while Tank and (we hope) Chung are hard enough - Harrison-like - to move into the box, I'd resist the temptation to include them in the LB corps analysis. But as a fan of BB's hybrid defenses, I hope you're right!

Good God.

I guess most'f the intelligent posters are on vacation.

Any of you folks who think that there is anything but the FAINTEST resemblance between this year's corps and that from a year ago haven't the slightest clue how the process of building a team works.

Mayo, Crable, Guyton, and Redd are now ~ all 4 of them ~ LIGHT YEARS ahead of where they were, one year ago. People who understand the BASICS of Football understand that the process of studying the PlayBook, of practicing, and of gradually assimilating the information takes time and repetition.

Anybody who's ever learned ANYTHING should grasp that concept: It takes TIME to graduate to the stage where you're responding on an Instinctive level.

And ~ as has been explained, time and again ~ THAT is why you usually see an ENORMOUS jump in effectiveness from the 1st year to the 2nd.

Ergo: Based on Historic Precedent and Common Sense, there is every reason to expect ~ granted good health ~ that Crable and Redd will graduate from Roster Fodder to Contributing Factors in their second year...and that Mayo and Guyton will evolve from Contributing Factors to Impact Players.

Ergo: Concluding that this year's LB corps is virtually unchanged is COSMICALLY insipid.

Mr. Fanatical Yankee

I admire your enthusiasm and your optimism. That said, I don't know if we can say that another year in the system ensures that these players will necessarily improve dramatically. What if they understand the game and the playbook much much better but turn out to lack a nose for the ball, or are a shade too slow, or aren't sufficiently physical? Your analysis discounts the truth that talent is just as important as experience. If it was just about time in the system, we'd be all pumped up about Eric Alexander.

But to be clear, I do expect that the players you mentioned will be better; I just don't know how much better, nor do I think it is automatically so.

Fanatical Yankee,
Then explain Jonathan Vilma.

Although I usually don't agree with Fanatical Yankee and his arrogant, bloated opinions and misuse of the English language (lol, "cosmically insipid"?!) in his failed attempts to look intellectually superior, I agree we are better off than some think at linebacker. I'm guessing FY wrote that before he found out about Crable. Now it is essential that Thomas stay healthy and on the field this year. By the way, defensive rookie of the year Mayo who led the team with 139 tackles was a "contributing factor" an "will" evolve into an impact player?? He's not already???Lol,now that's COSMICALLY IDIOTIC! Thanks for officially discrediting yourself and your opinions.

David, of course it's not automatic. I never even remotely implied that it was.

It goes without saying that they have to have the talent, for all that repetition to work. Good LORD, man: I shouldn't have to add that as a caveat. It is understood.

Or at least it is, if you have two brain cells to rub together: If talent wasn't a factor, you and I could go out there and, in about 18 months, and join the lineup.

My point was clearly about the dramatic difference we often see from the 1st year to the 2nd. And I believe I was crystal clear about that.

Heh! Looks like some of you geniuses don't like being called on your vacuous posts! Hah!

Mark, reread my post. Perhaps the second time around, it'll sink in for you. ;o)

Jax? You and I both know that you're just in a twist because I rubbed your nose in your own excrement on the other thread. May I suggest that you pretend you're a man long enough to take responsibility for your own foolishness, as opposed to lashing out at me? Because that frothing, snot-bubbling tantrum you just threw only makes you look ~ how would I put it? ~ Cosmically Insipid! ;o)

"Ergo: Concluding that this year's LB corps is virtually unchanged is COSMICALLY insipid."

Not until aforementioned players actually contribute on the field. Perhaps you feel comfortable with unproven players coming off the bench. I for one feel better when the Patriots either have someone like a Roman Phifer in reserves or a proven player to challenge incumbents (especially the unproven ones) in Training Camp.

I wonder why Monty Beisel did not go from graduate from Roster Fodder to Contributing Factor in their second year?

There are 3 types of depth in the NFL:

1. Depth that gets a team through the regular season.

2. Depth that gets a team through the play offs.

3. Depth that helps a team win a Super Bowl.

Moreover, if you logic holds true, that would mean the older linebackers, a year older, would theoretically be a little worse off from a physical standpoint then they were a year earlier. So that fact could negate the overall performance of the linebacker corps regardless of the strides the younger ‘backers make.

WOW.

Y'all're reading a LOT more into my post than actually appears, there.

1 ~ I never issued any iron-clad guarantees.
2 ~ I only brought up a general truth. One that continues to evade y'all.
3 ~ I never even mentioned its effect on older LB's, CN. You are on Crack.

Let me boil it down for you, as my wind is evidently longer than your attention spans...

A lot of players ~ I never implied that this was some kind of unshakable law, gentlemen! ~ again: a lot of players take a gigantic step forward, their second year, and most improve significantly. Historical Precedent and Common Sense prove this, 1000's and 1000's of times over, deny it though you may.

Therefore, while nothing is guaranteed ~ did y'all pick that up??? ~ again: while nothing is carved in stone, those of us who have two brain cells to rub together can see that, in all likelihood, the young players who we had on the roster one year ago are all, individually, likely to show significant improvement in their second year.

Ergo: Concluding that this year's LB corps is virtually unchanged is COSMICALLY insipid.

If that concept eludes you, my friend, there's nothing further I can do to help you. I never said I felt comfortable with unproven players coming off the bench, now, did I? Nor did I issue any guarantees; only an observation of fact that I really shouldn't've needed to point out to y'all in the first place.

If y'all're having such enormous difficulty following the simple points that I'm actually trying to enlighten you on, you really shouldn't actively fabricate points for me that I never made in the first place.

FY-

Your out of your league. Perhaps Powder-Puff is a better venue for you?
Your utter lack self awareness is appalling.