Breaking down the hit on Tom Brady

Mike, am I "misremembering" or isn't "sore shoulder" the characterization, the Pats used to describe the partially separated shoulder Brady suffered in 2002? I'm trying not to have think apocalyptically; but, this does not sound good.

Mike: Has Brady been xrayed or to the hospital? Seems if this was nothing the Pats would have commented by now.

Guys this is not a level 2 or 3. I've done both and you can't even move your arm on a level 3. Maybe it's a level 1, but that would be just a few weeks..... I know he hurt his knee last year, but lets move on and stop holding our breathe.

If this is how it is going to be with everybody worrying about Tom than this will be one miserable season. The guy will be flattened many times this season and might get hurt . That is the nature of the game. Speaking in hind site depending on how many games Vick would be suspended for this is the perfect reason why they should have signed him. With him in the backfield the pressure would have been off of Brady. As I suspected in Philadelphia most people really do not care about the dog fighting stuff when push comes to shove as it relates to on the field. No boos no nothing. The Pats will have to run more this year and take their shots down field once and a while or Brady might not make it through the season again. It cannot just sit back and get clobbered any more

HE WILL BE FINE!

It is just what showtime said......he would not be able to move his arm around or even throw the football(which he did after the hit) so everyone RELAX!!!! Brady will be ready to go week 1. You heard it here first.

Also, people are complaining that the hit might have been "dirty." Did you not see Haynesworth offer his hand in helping Brady up right after. He did what he was supposed to do, get after the qb! It was a clean hit. Brady has been hit before, he will get hit again, and he will get up after he gets hit again just like last night.

Just a little context here: Almost immediately before "Haynesworth's hit,." he was driven laterally, along the line of scrimmage, from the left to the right, and into the side of an interior defensive linemen on at least one of two consecutive "run-blocking" stunts featuring Maroney up the middle. He emerged looking "tired," & disheveled (his jersey was now more noticeably hanging around him, loosely, un-tucked). Prior to that, it seemed like their defensive line was making a point of just touching w/out hitting. Noticeably, after that, it seemed to me, that the gloves came off for both defensive units, especially the defensive lines.

Welcome back to the 'Tom Brady - shoulder (probable)' era of the injury report.

Also, I think, on the second of the two consecutive passes to Maroney, Baker was completely open, about 15 yards upfield. So, it definitely seems like they're trying to showcase Maroney's pass-catching, as to, in very conspicuous way, disrupt the assumption that most defenses make, "Maroney = Run between the tackles"

Mike, this is the kind of insight and follow-through that will be sorely missed when you start your new venture. Congrats on the new gig and thanks for all the analysis over the years.

So what is it, Mike? Brady still not setting the protection correctly? Or Light and Mankins getting Brady killed? Sounds to me like Brady should have had Baker or Taylor on the left to help Light.

Brady was throwing balls at the beginning of the 2nd half. If it were that serious, he would not even be able to throw at all, let alone move his right arm. Worst case - he rest it for two weeks and be ready to go for week 1.

He has 16 days to rest before Buffalo comes to town. He was throwing the ball around after halftime. Nobody head to the Tobin, Tom will be fine.

He emerged looking "tired," & disheveled (his jersey was now more noticeably hanging around him, loosely, un-tucked).

What the hell are you talking about? This might be the dumbest thing I have ever read. There is absolutely no reason to be worried about Brady's shoulder. He's able to fully rotate it and throw a football. If it isn't 100% right now, it will be in 16 days. This type of thing happens to every QB nearly every game. Because of his knee injury last year everyone is now hypersensitive to every bump and bruise he has. It's a preseason game and he looked great. Why send him back out there if he's a bit banged up?

Yup! we are all afraid every time Brady steps back in the pocket with time! He knows what he's doing. He know's he's going to get hit. The line can only block for so long. The longer he takes to find someone! the more probable the cause of getting injured. It's football!

Why does everyone assume that because he was able to throw the ball afterwards that it means he's ok? Plenty of QBs have come back into games after shoulder injuries, only to learn later on that it was season-ending. Happened to Brian Griese back in 2000 and he hasn't been the same since.

Hi T-man. I don’t remember the “sore shoulder” characterization from 2002 but it sounds right. … Jim, no one from the Patriots has said Brady got X-rays, but I think we can assume that is the case. … Wa, thanks for the kind words on the analysis. That means a lot. … Gooby, in my view of the play, I just think Light failed to hold his block and lost leverage. I’d put it on him.
--Mike

ok I am a redskins fan, but I do like tom brady and hate to see someone hurt, I think everyone is being a little to easy about this injury and I will tell you why:
1. It is his throwing shoulder
2. Look at brett favre he has torn tissue in his shoulder and if he took a
hit like that his career would finally be over and not by choice, but he is
still able to throw the ball right now. Being able to throw a ball does not
mean you are not hurt.
3. Brett Favre is old, and if he gets hurt to end his career it doesn't really
Matter because it is towards the end of his career anyway. Brady still
has a lot of playing time left in his career and if he is hurt anything like
Favre I will promise you the patriots will not take that risk and just let
him heal

All I am saying is don't rule anything out because Brady is a tough player and to decide not to play at all the second half shows there is a problem. Brady is an amazing quarterback and it would be stupid to try to risk an injury

Thanks for the response, Mike. I hear you. But in that case I don't understand why they would want Light one-one-one with Haynesworth. He's historically had problems when he was in that position. That's why Daniel Graham was recognized as the best blocking tightend in the league.

sorry, mike, but i believe your "breakdown" is incorrect (go to nfl.com for video) haynesworth did not "break through a double team" to create an open lane to brady. Haynesworth simply drove through light's outside shoulder while looping to get an open lane to brady. mankins had no responsibility at that point. check it out again and tell us what you think ?

p.s. baker jerking on brady's right arm to help him up probably was unfortunate also.

C'mon, it's another ploy by the Patrioits to get an edge. It was all planned, he's fine.

@13: I wasn't talking about Brady's getting hit; I'm saying a few plays before the hit, Haynesworth was driven, by Mankins, into another Redskins player. I put 'tired' in quotes because it's what one of the broadcasters said in response to the consecutive plays up the middle, that the Redskins defensive line was being run at, with success, just as they seemed to be getting a "tired." And, noticeably, after that, both defensive lines started to play little more aggressively.

It was almost as though, having been embarrassed on a previous play or series, Haynesworth suddenly woke-up. And then the Patriots defensive line responded in-kind.

I didn't see any match-ups between Light and Haynesworth all night because for the most part because I got bored watching Haynesworth get double teamed in the middle by the Pats O-line. On passing downs, I saw Light successfully fend off the new kid Orakpo. On running downs Orakpo's got quite a motor going laterally.

Mike - during the play where Brady got hammered, I was looking at Tryon jump up between Lewis and the ball and couldn't believe a pass interference flag wasn't thrown because Tryon never turned toward the ball.

This is how BB responded after the 12/29/2002 when asked about Brady's injury.
Q: Bill, there were times earlier in the game, Brady seemed to be favoring his arm. Was there something there?

BB: I don't know. You know, it was a tough game. There was a lot of hard hitting out there. But I thought he was able, I mean he made a nice throw there at the end to Kevin.

Nothing about bumps and bruises from BB. When asked after the game this is how Brady responded.
Q. Tom, what's the story with your injury?

TB: What injury?

Q. Are you hurt?

TB: I am always hurt after games. I feel good. We won the game. I feel good about that.

Q. It looked like your arm was dragging a little bit. Is it sore? I mean, obviously, you took some hits but you were in the training room for a long time.

TB: Yes. Just bumps and bruises. Just, you know.

Q. Bumps and bruises to which part of the arm, shoulder or –

TB: It is fine, it is fine. Not a big deal.

I don't think it has any relationship with what will happen with this injury but since some have mentioned it I went back and researched. My feeling is that Brady is fine and he'll be starting in Week 1.

Well, he may turn out just fine, but after watching the Pats' backup QBs, we should all be worried stiff if he just stubs his toe.

mike not big on anything to do with the me me me me ESPN brand but i can't go without the daily blog on the pats so i guess your leaving us pats fanatics no choice GOOD LUCK MIKE

Hi Adam0nt. I saw the play as a combination block. Mankins started on Haynesworth, passed him off to Light, and then returned to help after realizing Orakpo was accounted for. I'd agree that Hayensworth powered over Light's outside shoulder -- Light lost his leverage -- and that is on Light. ...Decker, thanks for the thoughts. I'm anxious to pass along some of my thoughts, but I don't think this is the best forum for it. I want to respect the Globe and Boston.com, both of which have been very good to me and my family. My plan is to sprint to the finish for the next few weeks.
--Mike

Good luck as you move to another dial Just like WEEI I moved on to 98.5 No big loss. You are very smart to get off a sinking ship to go on to a national outlet. You will do fine. When is your last day? Speaking for myself I will move to your new site. When you went out in July . Nobody blogged. It goes to show how much people follow you

You are jumping off a sinking ship onto swamp land. Thanks for everything, but I am not a fan of ESPN. I will miss you.

Tom will be fine. He threw the ball around after the hit and that is a good sign.
He is a FOOTBALL player, not a Major League pitcher,(AKA BABY)
He will be fine for the opener

Yes, I'm a huge Pats fan but I disagree with you all. I watched game with 2 Giants fans and they agree should have been a penalty. Does league reviews plays in preseason games? Haynesworth ABSOLUTELY did lift and drive Brady into turf. And I think it was a borderline late hit too. I'm not for putting skirts on QB's but if you can't brush a finger by a QB's facemask without getting 15 yds, then I think driving him into ground and landing your lard-ass 350 frame on him should be at least 15. If league doesn't fine Haynesworth, then I say enough is enough and Belichick needs to issue an internal memo to D-Line and LB's that it's open season for QB's.

Thank God we've got Matt Cassell.

I am not as worried about the degree of "seperation" he might have suffered as I am about the condition of his labrum and his rotator cuff. That looked awfully similar to the hit Steve young took years ago that tore his labrum. That's a very tough injury to bounce back from. You can move your arm with full range of motion with a torn labrum but it is incredibly painful and it causes looseness in the joint. That is my fear!

Players are getting bigger and faster. Its only a matter of time before the Brady/Haynesworth event happens again. Remember when Roman Gabriele(sp) was viewed as a monster QB? Tom Brady is just a smidge smaller than him. Last yr, the Giants had a QB that was north of 275 lbs. Dante Culpeper is well over 250 lbs. Don't know how this will end; but I won't enjoy seeing a player maimed on the field.

Regardless of how Tom is feeling or the severity of his injury, the "offensive line" needs to execute their blocking patterns on a consistent basis. If not, then it is 2008 all over again.

OK, now we need a new BRADY rule, defending the QBs' shoulders . we cannot have 350 pound guys land on the QBs'. wait, i've goit it!!! NO TOUCHING THE QUARTER BACKS!!! now that otta' do it!

Rosey Colvin got up and walked off the field, he must be ok .(just a broken hip) So when does a 300#+ lineman have to pick up a QB and drive him into the ground for it to be roughing the passer? Seems to me I've seen it called before when a giant sprawls his full weight on top of a QB while tackling him. I agree with dave, there also should have been pass interference called on that pass as the defender was face guarding. (he jumped up and the ball hit him in the back of the helmet) A no-call on the obvious "grounding" by the Skins QB in the first half. Looks like the refs are picking up right wherre they left off in the last few years.

Until he does/doesn't start Monday night week 1, this is going to a whole lot of wasted hot air by a bunch of TV talking heads who don't know anything because we have a better chance of politcians telling us the truth than we do of Bill B. letting us know anything about Tom's shoulder.

I agree with Ray, I will bet money, and I hope I am wrong, but Brady has suffered a torn labrum. We may never know until the end of the season, but that's my thought.

Wattydaddy

I'm curious. A lot of posters on this forum are, understandably, quick to blame the O-line for allowing defenders to get to Brady. Obviously it is their complete responsibility to protect him. But these guys are going up against NFL-quality defenders. Does anyone here have a thought on what EXACTLY qualifies as a good game for an O-lineman? If Matt Light keeps anybody from touching Brady the entire game, except for giving up a sack or two, has he done his job?

I'd REALLY like to hear some feedback on this one, please!

Another aspect of the situation is that on second down Taylor appeared to screw up his route, which ruined the play and set up the third and long, which enabled Haynesworth to tee off on Brady. If Taylor had been where he was supposed to be it would have been a first down or a third and short, and Haynesworth would have been on a more neutral footing, half ready for the run and the pass...

If we had a top shelf LT, instead of Light, Brady would be much safer. He is the most overrated left tackle in the NFL. I also do not understand why Pats lineman are not instructed to hold the defensive player when they are beaten (to ensure that Brady isn't hit). If they trained that way last year, we would have gotten a penalty instead of lost our franchis QB for the season. I'll take it!

He's toast. Go Red Sox!

I don't think the hit was dirty, but Haynesworth definitely put the little extra smoosh in the finishing touches of the hit. I don't think that is necessary in preseason.

This is very troubling, the last 2 injuries could be a sign that of what's to come. Brady isn't getting younger.

"NOTE: A few emails were delivered asking if Haynesworth’s hit was dirty. After watching it over, my feeling is that it was clean."

WHAT??????????? WHAT DOPE could possibly think that was a dirty hit???? Why, because The Queen got hit??? GIMME A BREAK. You people are PATHETIC KNOW-NOTHINGS!!!!!!

I can't believe someone actually wrote a STORY on this!!! Here's the story: He got tackled. The End.

GET OVER IT. IT'S FOOTBALL.

DanU: RE: "Does anyone here have a thought on what EXACTLY qualifies as a good game for an O-lineman?"

To get a true answer, you would have to talk to one of the coaches. All players get graded after every game, and the coaches would be looking at a heckuva lot more than the average fan would look it.

So, what I'm saying is: you're coming to the wrong location to try and get that answer, because all the DOPES on this blog will tell is what THEY think a good game by a lineman is, and will probably judge it solely on sacks.

So many things go into every play, and fans watching the game would really have no idea whose fault it really is when a sack happens. Could be the lineman's man that made the sack. Could be another lineman missed HIS assignment. RB could be to blame. QB could have held it too long. WR could've run the wrong pattern.