What color
do you bleed?
< Back to front page Text size +

The truth hurts

Posted by Chad Finn, Globe Staff November 20, 2008 05:59 AM

Theo Epstein is nothing if not logical, so we wouldn't be shocked to learn that the Red Sox’ bloodless general manager is quietly shopping David Ortiz this off-season. We have no hard evidence to support this suspicion, mind you. It’s just that, if certain things fall into place during the hot stove season, it makes more sense than some of us wish to admit.

Consider: Should the Red Sox win the Mark Teixeira lottery — and we’re absolutely convinced that a lucrative-bordering-on-obscene offer will be forthcoming from Yawkey Way — manager Terry Francona will be obligated to try to cram four high-quality everyday players (Ortiz, Teixeira, Kevin Youkilis, Mike Lowell) into three positions (third base, first base, designated hitter).

Rather than dealing with that conundrum (not to mention the egos), it’s more likely that the Sox would deal one of the quartet — most likely Lowell, assuming he returns in good form after hip surgery. But it’s no longer blasphemous to suggest that Epstein should at least gauge interest in the 33-year-old Ortiz as well.

Oh, of course some suckers for sentiment would like to believe Big Papi, who will forever stand among the most universally admired Red Sox, will never slow down and never grow old. I’m unabashedly one of them. But alarming signs already indicate that his body is plotting to betray him.

Reality bites
Ortiz never was quite right this past season, starting slowly (he was batting under .200 as late as May 2, in part because of a sore knee), then missing all of June and three weeks in July with a tendon injury in his left wrist. He finished his 109-game season with decidedly un-Papi-like numbers: a .264 batting average, 23 homers, and 89 RBI. His OPS (.876) fell 190 points from the previous season, and his record-setting 54-homer performance of 2006 felt as if it happened a decade ago.

We hoped all would be right in the world come the postseason, and we longed for Papi to match his late-inning heroics of the 2004 and 2007 playoffs. But save for a delightful flashback (a lightning bolt of a three-run homer during the Sox’ stunning comeback from a 7-0 hole in Game 5 of the ALCS), the postseason was devoid of Papi Moments. He batted .154 in the ALCS, and for the first time, we didn’t expect him to come through when the Sox required a clutch hit. Worse, it appeared he didn’t either. The famous easy smile was absent. So was the duende.

Given his, um, larger-than-life physique, you do have to wonder if the Mo Vaughn-as-a-Met stage of his career is nearer than we care to believe. But make no mistake — our suggestion that Epstein should consider trading him does not mean we hope he trades him, for it will be a tremendously sad day when Big Papi is no longer a member of the Boston Red Sox.

One great find
It’s easy to forget now, after all he’s accomplished here, but Ortiz is not a Red Sox lifer. He broke into pro ball in the Seattle Mariners’ system as a lanky (no, seriously) 17-year-old first baseman named David Arias in 1992, and he spent the first four-plus seasons of his big league career unfulfilled as a Minnesota Twin.

But his legacy is as a Red Sox, and that legacy will endure long after he’s clapped his hands twice, burrowed menacingly into the left-handed batter’s box, and terrified a helpless pitcher for the last time. He’s our icon, and there’s one line I always fall back on when it comes to describing his impact on the franchise since he arrived as little more than an obscure name in the transactions before the 2003 season:

David Ortiz is the best thing to ever happen to the Boston Red Sox.

I first wrote those words in 2005, a few delirious months after all ghosts were exorcised and all heaven broke loose, and I still believe them to be true. I imagine you do, too. Hell, you’ve got the everlasting memories and the Faith Rewarded DVD (which was robbed of a Best Picture nomination at the 2004 Oscars, in my opinion) as indisputable evidence of Ortiz’s on-field impact.

And all of those homers and highlights might not have been his most meaningful contribution. He is the epitome of a clubhouse leader, the charismatic emotional center of the ballclub. He’s a unifying force, with his big grin and bigger personality. In 2003-04, with an assist from everybody’s buddy, Kevin Millar, and the rest of the Idiots, he eliminated the cliquish “25 players, 25 cabs” mentality that had plagued the Boston clubhouse for so many years.

The pressures of being a Red Sox roll off his broad shoulders. He transcends race. He’s what this franchise — this city — has always needed.

And he leads us in the direction of a larger truth: Ugly endings are far too common for Red Sox superstars. Hell, they’re practically a franchise tradition, from Carlton Fisk and Fred Lynn a generation ago to the contentious departures of Mo Vaughn, Nomar Garciaparra, Pedro Martinez, and, of course, Manny Ramirez more recently.

I dearly hope that trend changes when it’s Ortiz’s time to depart, whether that comes this winter or a half-dozen memorable seasons down the road. If anyone deserves a famous final scene at Fenway, it’s him, and I suppose our hope for an appropriate farewell when the day comes can be found in this:

The man always has had a knack for memorable endings.

OT columnist Chad Finn is a sports reporter for Boston.com and can be reached at finn@globe.com

233 comments so far...
  1. No.

    You captured everything David Ortiz means to this ballclub and fanbase right here...

    "He is the epitome of a clubhouse leader, the charismatic emotional center of the ballclub. He’s a unifying force, with his big grin and bigger personality."

    Again... No.

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 10:22 AM
  1. Indeed, that would be a sad day, when Ortiz leaves the Sox. But the team would be doing the fans a disservice by not evaluating all players at critical moments of their careers...even Big Papi. I think there are only a select few players in the world of whom you don't think in the back of your head, "trade him while his value is still high...get something back for him while you still can." Ortiz might be one of those players, maybe not. He certainly isn't the same hitter without Manny Ramirez behind him in the order, so that's gotta be running through the collective minds of those on Yawkey Way.

    Posted by MaineJim November 20, 08 11:24 AM
  1. I'm not even going to bother reading this. No. N-O...no. Everyone is willing to sell the guy out after one down season where he had some injuries that he was trying to work out. Let's not lose sight of the fact that DO had his BEST SEASON just the year before. Players have down years here and there, even the greatest hitters have nagging injuries and struggle a bit. David Ortiz was developing into a complete hitter, not just a slugger, until he got hurt. I see no reason why an offseason of healing and getting things right wouldn't allow him to rebound in 2009. The difference between him and Mo Vaughn is about 50 hamburgers a day and the fact that Mo left Fenway and it sapped his numbers the same way it did with Fred Lynn. In fact, Mo was DO's favorite player, so I'd think he'd learn from Mo's mistakes, being a bright guy and all.

    Posted by Ian November 20, 08 11:25 AM
  1. I hope they find someway to make him retire in the Red Sox uniform, it'd be a shame if he didn't. I really think Big Papi will have a bounce back year this coming season, he is still young.

    Posted by Mike November 20, 08 11:40 AM
  1. I'll sob like a three-year old girl when the time comes to say goodbye to Papi in Boston...You say that it may be the logical move to trade Papi even if we would all hate to see it. Is that really the truth? Did people say it was time to trade Teddy ballgame in the 60's? Was the consensus that Yaz was ready to be traded in the late 70s? My point is this: Even if the Sox have to lose a few more games then they would have or even win one less world series, I will take that trade-off if it means we can see Papi retire in a Red Sox uniform. Some things are bigger then baseball and even bigger then winning. You don't trade Papi, he is not Nomar, Manny, or Boggs. He is Papi and he will retire in Boston.

    Posted by evan penn November 20, 08 11:48 AM
  1. I said this all year. He is done. That is why acquiring Teixeira is so critical. All this pitching talk is nonsense. We are so deep with arms. We need one solid bat ala Ortiz and Manny plus one more decent bat. Both need to be young.

    Posted by GMW November 20, 08 11:51 AM
  1. Talk about an article that doesn't actually saying anything. Is the point that the Sox should think (or might be thinking) about dealing Ortiz because he had a sub-par year by his standards? The man had real injuries to critical areas of the body for a hitter (as opposed to Manny Ramirez's phantom knee injury). This article has no real point as far as I can see, but it is evidence of why some players can't stand the Boston media. One sub par year and there's "talk" that a guy like Ortiz should be traded. Amazing.

    Posted by Mike K November 20, 08 11:52 AM
  1. You really can't write a good article about the tradability/desirability of Big Papi without talking about his contract. He's signed for a very reasonable $12.50 million for 2009 & 2010 with a $12.5 million club option for 2011. Consider that inferior hitters like Alfonso Soriano, Vernon Wells, and a few others are making considerably more and guys who can't hit (see Lugo, Julio at $10 million) are making almost as much. And 89 RBIs in 109 games being bad ? -- that projects to over 125 RBIs over a full season.

    Posted by Doug K November 20, 08 12:09 PM
  1. Chadd Finn = Epic Fail

    Posted by Al Dobro November 20, 08 12:16 PM
  1. Nicely written, nice arc to it all. Papi has played and hopefully will continue to play a seminal role in Red Sox history. You've written about the doubts many Sox fans must have creeping into their brains about Papi's continued dominance of all needs red soxian.

    Posted by jbozak November 20, 08 12:19 PM
  1. The thought of Papi leaving the Sox is almost as dreadful as my wife leaving, and she is a great women.

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 12:30 PM
  1. I agree with the comment by Doug K. Papi is a steal at the salary he's making. I'm sure the Sox know what kind of revenue Papi is bringing in with apparel, etc. He is a larger-than-life figure and the undisputed face of this franchise. If the Sox trade him away, they will have done a great disservice to RedSox Nation.

    Posted by Tim from West Brookfield November 20, 08 12:31 PM
  1. I'm with Chad on this one. You have to at least ponder the possibility of life without Papi. It's not just the injury-plagued 2008 or the specter of Mo Vaughn; there have been a lot of players comparable to Ortiz -- slow, no defense, great power, great patience -- who did not age well. Even a guy like Willie McCovey, who played until he was 42, was a shadow of his former self after his mid-30s. His last 30-home-run season came at age 32.

    I'm not saying "Dump Papi," and neither is Chad. What we are saying is that an intelligent organization is constantly examining its players and its options. And an intelligent organization has to be considering the possibility that we've already seen the best of David Ortiz. I hope not, and I hope he can age gracefully in a Red Sox uni -- but there is reason to believe that he could soon be in decline.

    I lived in Detroit in the 1980s, and I saw an unintelligent organization hang onto its stars for far too long. They allowed the likes of Trammell, Whitaker, Morris, Parrish, Lemon, and Tom F'n Brookens to get old together. It made for some nice entries in the Tigers record book, and a bunch of emotional retirement ceremonies, but it also directly led to the terrible Tigers of the 1990s. A franchise has to be constantly looking to its future.

    Posted by johnw November 20, 08 12:34 PM
  1. I would rather see you advocate the trading of Tom Brady. Why?
    Celts blew it not moving any of their Big Three back in the 80's and went into a 20 year swoon.
    Brady's focus is clearly not the same. The Sports Guy's rant on TB's handshake with Pat O'Brien before the Super Bowl was dead on. Brady is a celebrity now, his focus just isn't there.
    Trade him to the 49'ers, who are clearly desperate for some positive PR. Would they give up Patrick Willis and draft picks for TB? My guess is they would have to consider it. And why not make it a good old fashioned blockbuster. Trade Brady, Ben Watson and Laura Maroney to them for Willis, Vernon Davis and their top three picks in each of the next two dradfts. Franchise Cassell for a year and hope O'Connel is ready soon.

    Posted by rory November 20, 08 12:40 PM
  1. Doug hit the nail on the head, which is exactly why this isn't even a topic of conversation. He makes less than JD Drew! He makes less than Alex Rios. And only slightly more than Jason Varitek. Even at .263 23 HRs he was a steal. If anyone thinks Papi's season wasn't riddled from the start, they didn't watch the games. He hated the trip to Japan, never got in good shape, never truly solved the knee, then got seriously hurt on the wrist. All of that will recover next year. He's not 37, he's 33! We used to call that a players prime!
    I don't think many people know what Theo and his posse are talking about right now, but of all the ideas floated, trading Ortiz is likely the one that lasted about three seconds before dismissed. If Ortiz struggles again next year, and Lars Anderson lights it up, then maybe, MAYBE, they will talk about it. No way right now. This is the stuff of fantasy leagues, not real life GMs. It has less merit than the people who post ideas on this web site. Somebody please ask Theo about this, Do some reporting, now that both Wilber and Chad had opined about it. Ask Theo. Tape the eye roll as he says, "next question."

    Posted by Scott from San Fran November 20, 08 12:55 PM
  1. I agree with Doug K. Financially, I assume Theo sees the value if he gets a couple more Papi-like years with Papi. And the clubhouse factor shouldn't be downplayed. Obviously the Sox don't leave any stone unturned, so they have most likely brought it up, and hopefully realized that it just doesn't make sense.

    With Youkilis still a bargain, perhaps the Sox will juggle Youk, Papi, Lowell and Teixeira if a deal goes down. They've shown they're willing to do it with Coco/Ellsbury and quality starter-bench players like Casey.

    Posted by Johnny November 20, 08 01:10 PM
  1. The main issue I don't see Theo trading Ortiz should we land Tex is this: Lowell is an abover average fielder, Youks is a well above average fielder at third (and excellent at first) and Tex is also an excellent fielder. Relegating on those players to the DH spot would be a waste of resources. One reason Tex is so attractive is that he plays offense and defense so well. Youks will likely gain a ton of money in either arb. or in the form of an extension for the very same reason. We re-signed Lowell under the same rational as well... Why pay for those skill sets if they aren't going to be used?

    Posted by Michael Diaz November 20, 08 01:23 PM
  1. Who would take him? He's washed up. Those phenotypes don't age well.

    Posted by Theobroma November 20, 08 01:31 PM
  1. trade him while you can still get something for him. his game is a shell of what it was in 2004-2005. thanks for the memories and good luck.

    Posted by steve November 20, 08 01:35 PM
  1. No way no how. Lowell will leave first. This is not an issue. Teixeira arrives and Youk goes to third. Ortiz is a DH. This is nonsense....Please do not make an issue out of something that is not.

    Posted by Steve November 20, 08 01:37 PM
  1. This is a moronic article.

    Posted by Mike November 20, 08 01:37 PM
  1. Manny sure had the intelligence to get out of town.

    Of course the Sox would trade Ortiz. This is a business right. Unfortunately for Ortiz he has no leverage on the Sox.

    Manny beat the Sox to the punch (pun intended towards the ex-cop McCormack).

    Roll the dice Theo ... sure must be fun to have loads of cash behind you to play fantasy games!

    Theo if you are so good why not try and pitch your trade in a place like Pittsburgh?

    Posted by sox and money November 20, 08 01:37 PM
  1. This writer is a joke. One bad year because of injuries and everyone is so quick to write him off. I can't believe the way Boston treats their players. They give up on them so quick it is really pathetic. If Ortiz displays the same numbers in 09, then yes, he might be on the downside of his career, but I see no reason to talk trades with him because of injuries. He would've hit 30 HR if not for playing in only 109 games. Not to mention, the first 2 months of the season IF ANYONE WATCHED, he hit line drives in the shift like crazy. Over half of Ortiz's outs are because of the shift...Again, if next years numbers are the same, then yes we can have this discussion, but if not, then shut your mouths.

    Posted by Jack Daniels November 20, 08 01:38 PM
  1. I am against trading him...but not for the reasons that you may think. He is coming off of an injury-plagued season. His market value has never been lower. I would hate to see the Sox get reduced value for him based on his 2008 season. Plus, he has little to no value to NL teams...I doubt he could play 1B for 150+ games a season.

    Kudos to the Sox for trading Crisp when they did...he was coming into the last year of his contract AND he had just had a pretty solid season displacing Ellsbury as the everyday starter in the playoffs. That made him more appealing to other clubs.

    Posted by CHOMP! November 20, 08 01:38 PM

    Time to move on.

    Posted by maze4muz November 20, 08 01:38 PM
  1. Chad, you're an idiot. Your column sucks, OT sucks. I'm not going to look at it any longer.

    Posted by JMR November 20, 08 01:39 PM
  1. I am glad someone mentioned Boggs. He was unceremoniuously dumped during the prime of his career. That Yawkey Ownwership Group was horrible in hindsight. They deserved seeing him win a ring as a Yankee.

    Posted by Bob Griese November 20, 08 01:40 PM
  1. That time comes for every one. You can see David doesn't have those clutch performances at bat anymore. However, other teams know that as well, so his trade value has dropped.

    Posted by larry November 20, 08 01:42 PM
  1. Certainly worth considering, depending on what type of youth you could get in return. For that matter, if you could pull off a Herschel Walker type of trade, I would trade Tom Brady too.

    Posted by Keith November 20, 08 01:42 PM
  1. Yes, Yes !!! His value is going down fast.

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 01:43 PM
  1. Maybe some of you writers should take a vacation until spring training. So much time...so little thought. You laid out all the reasons why the Sox might want to trade Ortiz. For those same reasons, would you expect any team to give up diddly squat for him? Think you struck out on this one.

    Posted by allan h November 20, 08 01:44 PM
  1. just remember #9 he had his few bad years and ended his years a a ok

    Posted by john marino November 20, 08 01:44 PM
  1. Attention grabbing article. We're supposed to believe Lowell belongs in that foursome mentioned? Laughable...

    Posted by Ed S. November 20, 08 01:44 PM
  1. I would like to see him stay. But, baseball is a business, & if Theo feels that he is nearing the end of his time, then i would rather he go.

    Posted by Bill November 20, 08 01:45 PM
  1. Who died and made Chad Finn God? I wish this guy would just be quiet. But he looks an awful lot like he's a protege of Dan Shaughnessy so I guess he's not going anywhere. Too bad for us The truth hurts indeed!

    Posted by denheels November 20, 08 01:46 PM
  1. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! I couldn't even read the whole article I was so shocked at simply the thought of Papi being elsewhere.

    Manny I understand. He had to go. But Papi? One bad year with injuries. I think his wrist bothered him more than he let on. I don't want to see Papi ever wear any other uniform other than a Red Sox one.

    It disgusts me that Lugo makes $2.5 million less than Papi. Talk about being grossly overpaid. I don't get Theo and his contracts. Papi should make Manny money. Lowell could've gone anywhere after 2007 and chose to stay in Boston for less than he could have gotten elsewhere. I'm not all that excited about the chance to land Teixeira.

    Posted by Debbie November 20, 08 01:46 PM
  1. The only fans that want Big Papi traded are Yankee fans.

    Posted by Jimmy November 20, 08 01:46 PM
  1. Trade him. Everyone dogged Manny for his lack of effort, but no-one wants to dog Ortiz for his dispirited play. There were plenty of grounders to the right side of the infield that David didn't run out during the playoffs, and his physique clearly shows a lack of effort in the off season to prepare, and lose weight. Now we are talking about adding Texiera to the team as well... I'd rather move Ortiz, pick up another pitcher and keep Lowell, Uke and Texiera than an aging, loafing, former slugger whose on the decline.

    Posted by Stabler November 20, 08 01:49 PM
  1. Doug K - that's the problem in a nutshell - paying $12.5M a YEAR for a professional athlete...one that can barely speak English no less!

    Posted by shelly November 20, 08 01:49 PM
  1. Absolutely not.... after an injury and losing his buddy Manny in the same season hurting his mental game there is no way you can look at last season and say he should be traded.

    He will rebound and have a monster year in 2009.....!

    Posted by chris November 20, 08 01:50 PM
  1. IDIOT!!!!

    Posted by ACB7600 November 20, 08 01:51 PM
  1. No.

    Posted by Mike November 20, 08 01:51 PM
  1. It may well be true that Papi is past his peak. He has the body type that suggests and earlier and steeper decline than other players.
    But there's no way he'll be traded, and not because of any emotional reasons. His contract is absurdly cheap. It's good value for a guy with an OPS that hovers around .880 - .920, though I'd say it's likely he'll top that range again in 2009. Add in his leadership and there's no way Papi leaves. He's the kind of guy Theo would go get right now (on his terms of course) if he were playing for someone else.

    Posted by Afredoz November 20, 08 01:51 PM
  1. Blasphemy.

    ...And it doesnt even come close to making baseball sense.

    Posted by Alskor November 20, 08 01:52 PM
  1. Trading David Ortiz would be like trading Babe Ruth all over again. The Yankees would pounce on whomever we traded him to with an huge offer to put him in pinstripes - a la Clemens and Toronto. Maybe the Rays would be interested in having him hit behind Pena. He has hit a HR every 10 times up in the Trop/Yankee Stadium over the last 3 years. He could easily hit 30 homers at Home and 50-55 in total for either of those clubs. If he did, we'd probably go 7-12 against that team. Then, we'd have to go 88-55 against the rest of the AL to get back to a Wild Card with a 95-67 record.

    Posted by JoeyGeneva November 20, 08 01:52 PM
  1. you dont get rid of papi

    Posted by Alex November 20, 08 01:52 PM
  1. Definite blasphemy! You may be right but I still think he needs to retire with a Sox jersey. Some things ARE more important than World Series trophies. With a lot of the Sox favorites either gone or on their way out we need to hold on to arguably the most popular figure in the last decade. And I'm not ready to throw him away after one lousy season. I just don't see Teixeira as critical, let's not fully turn into the Yankees where we just recklessly throw money around (especially when you're saying the Sox would fork out a pretty hefty amount to get him) I think we can get better bang for our buck elsewhere. I mean look at Tampa Bay for pete's sake!!

    Posted by embee November 20, 08 01:54 PM
  1. God No you don't trade Papi, he'll be back, and better than ever.

    Posted by Tara November 20, 08 01:54 PM
  1. Yeah, look what Pedro Martinez did (he whine). Look what Manny Ramirez did (he whine) and now David Ortiz is almost getting there. He complain that the ref were not calling good calls on him and ever since Manny Ramirez left the Red Sox, David Ortiz was not the same guy. So as a Red Sox fan, don't be surprise if he does get traded. That is all what these Dominican players do is just whine.

    Posted by Rebecca November 20, 08 01:55 PM
  1. Get Texiera behind him in the lineup, and then add Holliday next year. Papi will be a happy Sox player for the rest of his career.
    Plus, the Sox will be set with some big bats after he is gone.

    Posted by mixjuan November 20, 08 01:55 PM
  1. Just because Manny's gone doesn't mean you reporters need to stir up problems where there aren't any.

    Posted by Tara November 20, 08 01:57 PM
  1. Ortiz in my opinion will be back in full force next season. He missed two months of the season, which lead me to believe that if he would have played the whole season his numbers would have been youkilis-like or even better. I think he will be back healthy and ready to go, and like he mentioned with another bat to back him up, his numbers will soar. I don't believe it was so much Ramirez's departure that affected his numbers, but the batting order around him in general. I believe pitchers were more careful with Ortiz than they were with other Red Sox hitters. Either way,I believe,that Ortiz will come back next year and hit 30 plus homers as well as drive in 100 plus runs. There is no doubt in my mind that these acomplishments would have been possible with a healthy season in 2008. I had my doubts about him catching up to the 95mph plus fastball until he turned on that 97mph pitch off balfour in the playoffs. After that all my doubts went away.

    Posted by Erlin Guillen November 20, 08 01:57 PM
  1. In this time of economic crisis, I'd hate to see the Red Sox front office start looking at the ball club like a bunch of day-traders angling for an advantage. Yes, I know that sometimes you let go of a star and a fan favorite in order to win a championship and put fannies in the seats (or sign lucrative TV deals). But for once, just for a little while, couldn't we pretend that it's 1949 (minus the racism of the old Sox) when the team seemed to belong to the fans? It may be nostalgic, but given a choice between, say, Branch Rickey and the CEO of Lehman Brothers, that we'd choose the former?

    Posted by hathead52 November 20, 08 01:57 PM
  1. Enough with this. While there may be good reasoned arguments for trading him, it will NEVER happen.

    Posted by Mike November 20, 08 01:58 PM
  1. Ok,,,,,,! Give him one more year !!!! Let him get healed up and he will be re energized,
    We Love Papi!!! SAVE BIG PAPI ,

    Oh note to David Ortiz, you better get an attitude like Pedoria and Youk or you wil be history......!!!

    Posted by Ed from Swansea.... November 20, 08 01:58 PM
  1. Time out everyone. I see both sides of the picture. He's an icon, he's David Ortiz. I have to defend the fact that we would get FANTASTIC value for David Ortiz at this point in a trade. He has been in a steady decline since his record setting HR season for the sox. Blame it on injury or whatever else, the bottom line is that David has started his decline. You can call it a down year and I have no problem with that, but David is 33 years old. He is not in good shape physically, his body will wear faster then that of many other 33 year olds in the game. Say his wrist "gets right" this offseason, can we really expect his already troubled knees to hold out more then 2 seasons down the road?
    Please all readers, don't get me wrong, David Ortiz is the Boston Red Sox, but his value more then likely will NEVER be higher. He isn't a five tool player and no longer hits for contact (I blame the shift for this) but the one thing he has left is power and that is only IF his decline in power was caused by injury. He is a defensive liability, he can't run the bases well, and there are a lot of players in the league who could drive in as many runs as he did with such players as Youk, Pedey, and everyone but tek and lugo in a lineup.
    All it boils down to is this, and I'm not sure how anyone could see how this is wrong: Knock on a couple doors and see who's interested. Theo knows who David is, he will not trade him for a porno mag and a pack of smokes, if David Ortiz leaves this club this year, you better beleive it will be a BLOCKBUSTER. Honestly though, all the people who say no... How does gauging interest and entertaining offers hurt this ballclub?? I was PISSED when we traded Nomar, but that brought us a World Championship... Theo knows what he is doing.

    Please respond/hate me haha
    I think its a great topic of discussion...

    Posted by Topher Dubay November 20, 08 01:59 PM
  1. What are you nuts? He's the heart of the team! He should play next year, and then retire if he's struggling......in a Red Sox uniform. Period. If the Sox cut him loose, they'll lose one of the biggest crowd-pleasers of all time. And they'll lose a mentor for the great young players coming along. Sometimes you just have to be a human being....usually, it's even better for the bottom line.

    Posted by RLaughton November 20, 08 02:00 PM
  1. Ortiz is cheap - plain and simple. You won't find his type of production for the money you are paying anywhere.

    Posted by Shaun November 20, 08 02:00 PM
  1. You captured what I was thinking, but was afraid to admit to myself. Thanks (I think...)

    Posted by Johnny N. November 20, 08 02:03 PM
  1. I have a better idea: Trade Chad Finn.

    Posted by Bob from Ft Myers November 20, 08 02:05 PM
  1. Puuuleaaaaase! One bad season due to injury and you're writing off his value to the team? How can you expect even one of the best hitters in MLB to put up great numbers if the wrist is injured? Assuming the wrist is fine in Spring Training, no logic in trading Big Papi. He'll probably end up back at .280 - .300 avg., .380 - .420 OBP with 30+ homers and 100+ RBIs (maybe better if Theo goes out and gets another bat). If the wrist isn't fine, it would be revealed during "a pending medical examination" and any trade would be nixed. Then we're looking at retirement for our beloved Big Papi and maybe a position recruiting talent for the Sox in the DR.

    Posted by Larry F November 20, 08 02:06 PM
  1. ARE YOU FREAKING CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by SAM November 20, 08 02:06 PM
  1. Not an easy topic to even consider but it takes forward thinking like this to improve and get better in an increasingly difficult AL East. There is no harm in testing the waters to see what could be obtained. It is pretty clear that given some of the health concerns it is hard to imagine any team putting a package together that would provide the proper return for Papi. What Papi needs is another bonafide running mate and the same name comes to mind each and every time TEIXEIRA. They need to go over the top and close the deal and get this guy...7 years 160 to 170 and bring him home where he should of been 10 years ago when Duquette and staff botched his signing with shady dealings. It will stink to lose Lowell but this is the time to get younger and reload.

    Posted by Dube November 20, 08 02:08 PM
  1. Frankly, I'd rather the club finished out of the playoffs with David Ortiz than win it all without him. He is a grand performer on the big stage and that is what it is all about. We are fortunate to have some very, very serious players on the team, but there is something to be said for the contagious joy that Big Papi radiates. Keep him forever!

    Posted by Bill M. November 20, 08 02:09 PM
  1. I'd take Texiera over Papi any day...

    Posted by Pic November 20, 08 02:10 PM
  1. Chad........What? I love your stuff Chad, but what.....I agree that Papi's numbers were down, well way down this past season, however, he did have a nagging knee issue and then the wrist injury, so, If I am to take this entry of yours as just an exercise in being bored without baseball, I say, give him one more season before you consider any type of trade, I mean what is the point of trading somebody who as you say was hurt, nobody is going to pick up the two year 24 million and whatever buyout clause is in the option year for a has been, His numbers speak and his penchant in the clutch has yet to be matched, so, Chad, please refrain from another article like this, I mean if this is the logic you are to use, who will you pen about next time, Paul Pierce.......really, an athlete with Papis production deserves one more season t oheal, yes, lose a little weight, get more comfortable with the hitters in fromnt of him, then, if he cannot produce, simply cut and paste this article next year......

    Posted by redsox1975 November 20, 08 02:11 PM
  1. I've always enjoyed your writing and while you obviously also have an emotional attachment to Big Papi my first thought is "Chad you are a complete b*sterd". Seriously have we no right to ever get attached to a player again? Your throwing Papi under the bus after one down season with legitimate injuries? Have you no sense of decency? You don't trade hero's you simply don't. You let them go out with the dignity and grace they deserve. Papi's got a lot of production left in him once he gets healthy.

    Posted by Laura C November 20, 08 02:15 PM
  1. Yes, blasphemy! I cannot even read the article! David Ortiz should be able to stay with the Red Sox until he retires. He has done a lot for this ball club, has one of the best attitudes of the players, is loved by all the fans and is great for our community. He gave it his all even though he was injured this year, no reason just to decide to ship him out!

    Posted by Annie November 20, 08 02:16 PM
  1. If they can move Lowell and bring in Texieria the line up goes something like this...
    1.)Ellsbury 2.)Pedroia 3.)Ortiz 4.)Texieria 5.) Youk 6.) Drew 7.)Bay 8.)Lowerie 9.) Catcher. Now you're saying if this happens, and it very well could, having Ortiz sandwiched between the reigning MVP, and then a 4-7 lineup like that wouldn't be, on paper, one of the best line-ups in baseball history? Forget about the talk of trading Ortiz and start talking about bringing in Texieria.

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 02:17 PM
  1. Before you are thinking of trading Papi, we got to worry about Lowell. We all do not know when Lowell be able to start playing baseball for the 2009 season!!

    Anyway, Papi only have two years left in his contract along with an addtional optional contract year. So if he fail to live up with his contract by the end of 2010 season, let him walk after the 2010 season.

    Really, it is hard to find a decent hitting DH in nowdays!! Most of AL teams's DH are injured prone player like Damon, Giambi, Vlad, Hafner, Sheffield, Floyd, etc. And worse part is that Papi is still far better hitter than these group of guys!!

    Dont worry, he will have a good year in 2009 season!!


    Posted by Mike November 20, 08 02:18 PM
  1. Aurevoir Mon-Ami....Considering the amount of DL time & strikeout whining you get for your $$ it is truly a viable option that must be considered, Teixeira would be an extremely potent bat & that would allow Youk to be @ 3rd with Lowell @ DH ....less $$...less strikeouts & far less whining to the Umps when he does, that + a win win situation

    Posted by SteveF November 20, 08 02:18 PM
  1. Its bad enough that sportswriters make stories up when they are badly educated and mindless. But this Chad Finn makes matters worse as he smokes crack as he types with one finger. And people wonder why the Globe is a dying newspaper. This is what you get when you pay minimum wage.

    Posted by Eddie Shore November 20, 08 02:19 PM
  1. $5+M of Crisp + $12.5M of Ortiz = an obscene offer for Mark Teixiera.

    I am sentimental and I LOVE Big Papi. However, I think it would be much easier to trade Ortiz's contract than Mike Lowell's. I have been saying since the playoff ended that IF the Sox got into the Teixiera bidding war, one would have to expendable and it's Ortiz. Ortiz is a professional hitter with marginal fielding skills. Trading Papi for a catcher/4th outfielder makes most sense because with Lowell, Youkilis and Teixiera, they can all either DH or play the field.

    This is a no-brainer.

    Posted by Bill B November 20, 08 02:21 PM
  1. Are you nuts?

    Posted by David Lowe November 20, 08 02:22 PM
  1. I wouldn't mind seeing Papi trade his insistant "pull" stance for a more opposite field approach...the guy is great value, for all the reasons people have mentioned (esp at 12.5 relative to other 1-hit wonders and unprovens out there).

    But the fact is Papi should start demonstrating that he IS a complete hitter...I remember in his early years here, when he was trying to be "clutch" against the Yankees, for example, he was told to go drive one off the Monster...and that's where his head needs to return. Now, my son and I got to enjoy the 7-0 comeback gaem, and no one was more thrilled to see Papi drill that home run! But it absolutely killed me to see him trying to pull the ball (with exception of BAD bunt attempt in Tampa Bay) during the rest of the playoffs. We need Papi for all the intangibles and mostly for the tangibles - he's a quality player, classy indivudal, and bigger-than-life member of the Sox. I was OK with how our season ended last year b/c those guys left it on the field. AND because Papi et al. put our demons to rest in 2004 and 2007. Let's demonstrate why Red Sox nation can lead the real nation, by valuing more than $$ (rings), and celebrating our community and one of our most gracious ambassadors. I'll take no rings and a series of contending seasons and 4 tickets to Papi's grand send-off weekend (a la Yaz!)

    Posted by Pablo November 20, 08 02:23 PM
  1. You can add all the talent in the world but without leadership the club has no chance. Ask the Chicago Cubs. They have had a series of superstars coming in and out of their clubhouse over the years but no true leader. We all know about their results. So, let's hope Theo continues to bring talent without forgetting about the importance of strong player leadership and without getting rid of our clubhouse leaders such as Ortiz, Youk and Pedroia.

    Posted by Regis F. November 20, 08 02:23 PM
  1. Don't you dare talk about trading Papi. He was injured in 07, and he left his heart and guts on the field every day playing through the pain for the good of the team and for your entertainment. He did the same thing in 08 and so what if he didn't put up great numbers? If your wife gains some weight and can't do all the things she could a little while ago, do you divorce her for that? No, because you love her. And Sox fans love Papi and wont give up on him because he wasn't himself for one season. He means more to the Red Sox and to the children and citizens of Boston and New England than just OPS, OBP and HR.

    Posted by UnconditionalLoveForPapi November 20, 08 02:24 PM
  1. Youk is young, plays any position you ask, a gem at the plate, and at some point will want and get big money. Is he the one who will get you the most in return? I want Youk here but if the front office is as smart as they say he would be the one to go.

    Posted by coach November 20, 08 02:25 PM
  1. SIGN DLOWE!!!

    Posted by rootemin club November 20, 08 02:26 PM
  1. Trading Ortiz would be like trading Yaz!! Just not done! One season with injuries to critical areas for a hitter, does not mandate a trade. For goodness sake, why even start this kind of "stupid" talk. Let the man rest over the off season and he'll be fine come April........really. He KNOWS what he has to do. Papi will retire as a Red Sox. End of story.

    Posted by Maeblueyes71 November 20, 08 02:27 PM
  1. uh oh, here we go with another "wakefield" situation...as much as i would be saddened by an ortiz trade, don't forget that baseball is a business, the business of winning. And the red sox management should do whatever it takes to help the team win, and if that means trading big papi, then so be it. No one deserves a "gold watch" contract, not wakefield, not ortiz, not nomar, not pedro, not even teddy ballgame. This isn't a country club.

    Posted by Alex November 20, 08 02:29 PM
  1. were dealing with two subjects;the fans and the player himself.i'm a hard ass
    guy who will trade most anyone for something better.i'm for keeping big papi
    and gamble that he comes back to his former self.we can always use that extra
    heavy bat in our line-up.it's up to mgt.to keep his weight down.
    big papi is a bosoxer and belongs to fenway and ithe red sox fans.don't worry about papi,get texiera,saltimbaccio,and another pitcher.

    Posted by GEORGE STEINBERG November 20, 08 02:29 PM
  1. I must ask WHY is there a frenzy to sign a big-money hitter like TexeiraDidn't we learn anything from the Rays 2007 Season? With Papi, Lowell & Drew healthy why the need for another big gun? Pitching and defense rule. Sox need a catcher to be heir apparent to 'Tek and they need to finally find a reliable, everyday SS. Couple that with consistent bullpen middle relief pitcher or two, and this team does not need to throw more money at an AJ Burnett or Texeira. The answers to their needs lie in the middle: C, SS, middle relief.

    Posted by Pete G. a.k.a. "Sofachi" November 20, 08 02:32 PM
  1. I love David Ortiz and hope he retires as a Red Sox! He's up there with Ted Williams among my all time favorite Red Sox. Trade? No way.

    Posted by Charles Jenks November 20, 08 02:34 PM
  1. So one subpar year (I'd hardly call 89 RBIS in a shortened, injury filled season "bad") and some people are ready to throw him under the bus? I expect that kind of talk from Yankees fans about their players, not true Red Sox fans.

    Posted by JimR November 20, 08 02:34 PM
  1. David Ortiz is the "Red Sox". Please never ever consider loosing this great man. Nothing makes me smile more than seeing "Big Papi" when watching a game.

    Posted by Gigi November 20, 08 02:35 PM
  1. Looks like Mr. Finn just wants people to read his articles. Gotta write something in the off-season, why not go after everyone's hero?

    Booooooooooo, Mr. Finn. Boooooooo!!!

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 02:36 PM
  1. Post #7 -- Outstanding Point about The Boston Media !!!!


    Posted by Kevin P November 20, 08 02:36 PM
  1. Trade Big Papi? I guess anyone can write for the Globe-they will print anything. I guess you don't really need to know anything about sports to write for a so called major newspaper. Fun speculation is fine like who would be a better free agent to sign or should they trade a reliever like DelCarmen; but trading Ortiz? Dumb just plain dumb. HIre me Boston Globe-I can be just as dumb.

    Posted by kevin luby November 20, 08 02:39 PM
  1. If the Red Sox trade David Ortiz, as painful as it is, I will give up my lifelong membership in Red Sox Nation and root for a team closer to my Montana home. Ortiz is the heart and soul of the Red Sox. You can't put a price tag on that.

    Posted by Dave Parker November 20, 08 02:40 PM
  1. Thers is no loyality in your town

    Posted by JFM November 20, 08 02:40 PM
  1. if they trade Big Papi, i will give up my Sox loyalty to wherever Papi plays. end of story.

    Posted by catwalk November 20, 08 02:41 PM

    Posted by MIKE November 20, 08 02:42 PM
  1. He's 33, fat and out of shape. Not the kind of body that gets better with age. Why do fans clamor to keep old timers (not necessarily meaning Ortiz) because of their "character, leadership, great smile, whatever". FANS DON'T PAY PLAYER'S SALARY. Owner do. Sorry, saying you do because you buy Fenway's high priced tickets is the same as telling Oliver Stone what you want in his next movie.

    Did Lugo offer to give back part of his $9 million because he was gone 2/3rds of the year? Did Shilling offer his $8 mil to help enlarge the owner's lakeside retreat? Did the captain volunteer to return part of his $10 mil since he barely hit more than 200? Nooooo...he wants a mega contract. How about Drew? Plays, plays, hurt, hurt, hurt, plays, hurt, plays, hurt. Does he give up a game's salary after every game he's out? Yeah, right. Boy Man Manny pouts and forces a bad trade. He's gonna give back half of his 20 mil, right?

    I'll stick with Epstein's instincts, wish Ortiz the best of luck, and get on with real life.

    Posted by Gary Unger November 20, 08 02:44 PM
  1. Are you nuts!!!!!!

    Posted by Ed November 20, 08 02:45 PM
  1. Why would Epstein trade Ortiz? Lowell is obviously the weakest player of all those three that could go after we get Tex. Ortiz isn't ancient quite yet and I suspect he still has some great seasons ahead of him. Give him a chance before you decide to send out the other half of the former best 3-4 punch in baseball.

    Posted by James November 20, 08 02:45 PM
  1. Trade Finn

    Posted by RRP November 20, 08 02:46 PM
  1. Is this like one of those phony surveys? You post something preposterous and see who responds...no way.

    Posted by Fred November 20, 08 02:47 PM
  1. Why not trade Youk instead? Think about it.... His value is probably at its peak. He's a low money contract, gold glover, and just finished 3rd place MVP. Package him with a young arm (like Bowden,) and get the likes of Jake Peavy to protect our big three. (Beckett, Lester, and Dice) Youkilis is a year away from his own big money contract so why not get rid of him now before he holds out, picks up Boras as an agent and plays hardball with the Sox (who will either be forced to over pay or give him up for nothing.) Take that money and spend it on Teix now. Lock him up over 6 years (hence giving Ortiz protection in the line up) and add a big arm to the lineup. Also, sign Pedroia to a generous contract (something like Hanley Ramirez’s contract) and PLEASE bring Millar back as your utility bench guy.

    Tell me this team wouldn't be fun to watch?!?!?

    Posted by Steve A November 20, 08 02:49 PM

    Posted by STEVE P November 20, 08 02:53 PM
  1. I don't care if anybody thinks his best years are behind him,what Big Papi means to this club and fans,you would have to be an IDIOT to trade him !!! For the money he gets paid compaired to other players in this league, (that by the way couldn't carry his jock strap) And what he means to this city and to Red Sox Nation all over the country.Someone would really miss the boat if they were to let him go. That's the way i see it. Robert M.

    Posted by Robert MacPherson November 20, 08 02:54 PM
  1. Typical Boston media trying to run another hero out of town. He's only 33 and he Dh's he's got another 4 plus years easy. Let's try and not screw this one up. The Yankees are never trading Derek Jeter, Ortiz is our Jeter.

    Posted by Tim November 20, 08 02:56 PM
  1. The man had a wrist injury you DOLT. Of course he wan't going to be what he was last year. WAKE UP CHAD and smell the coffee. Right now it is not time to start thinkging about sending Ortiz off because I GAURAN-DAMN-TEE it would bite the Sox in the arse so fast, we have sent many packing only to have them so great we're left saying "DAMN, that could've been us benfitting". And because he is a DH (you do remember what that means right?) he doesn't figure in to trying to find a spot for him...DUH! The only time it come into play is for a few days during interleague play. Seriously, let's keep him around right now and look at unloading useless people like Lugo.

    Posted by Rayn November 20, 08 02:57 PM
  1. I think a better option would be for the globe to trade Mr. Finn to some supermarket tabloid where he belongs. First he says get rid of tek, despit the fact
    that no good options exist. Now Papi. Give me a break. Why don't we add Beckett, Ellsbury and throw in Wake because they all had down years too!

    Posted by Kevin B November 20, 08 02:57 PM
  1. trade him.

    he's fat, can't play the feild, his bat is slow. he's gone from big pappy to big poopy

    Posted by paul November 20, 08 02:57 PM
  1. I don't have any idea who Chad Finn is, but he's clearly not a strong thinker. I'd trade him to the Columbus Dispatch for the 2009 Bill James perspectus.

    Posted by stella November 20, 08 02:58 PM
  1. Doug K! Exact-a mundo. Papi is a bargain with his salary figures!

    Chad - it's articles like this which makes being a Professional ballplayer in Boston so difficult. You give a bad name to the media here. Sorry, but, I don't think the Sox are shopping Papi. I think they know he's going to come back and put up better numbers than last year with or without protection in the lineup. It's funny Chad why you didn't mention his salary numbers! He is playing at a BARGAIN price for the Sox and not complaining about it like other ex-Sox who needed to go! What do you think he would get right now if he were a free agent and say he had Boras as an agent. He'd be getting compared to Teixeira right now and if you look at his numbers since he's been on the Sox, he's got much better numbers than Teixeira and Boras would be asking for Teixeira type numbers ($'s). So, basically, he's playing for half or what he is worth on the open market.

    I you listened to his interview after the season ended, he was playing in pain and his wrist was not right throughout the playoffs. He was going through injuries all year long and lost his protection of Manny hitting behind him. Project his numbers to a full 162 season as opposed to 109 games, he hits 34 home runs and 132 rbi's. Hmm....what was a down year for Papi, Teixeira has only had one or two similar years (2004-38HR, 112RBI & 2005 43HR 144RBI), year in his career (and we're talking about Papi's worst year (last year) since he was on the Twins.

    GIMME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by Sal C November 20, 08 02:59 PM
  1. With all indications that he will be 100% healthy come spring and some serious protection in the line-up (e.g. Texiera) Big Papi will be back to being Big Papi and making opposing pitchers poop thier pants.

    Posted by Splinter November 20, 08 03:00 PM
  1. Marris needed Mantel behind him to hit 61. Many other hitters are good because of were the batted in the order and who bats behind them. Papie needed Manny and the current roster does not have anyone to fill even three quarters of Manny's ability. Lowe may be done, Bay can't hit a breaking pitch and only hits high mistakes for any power and JD isn't the power hitter Pappi needs to be sucessful.
    The Red Sox are a business deal him now and go for a young power hittter or slick short stop.

    Posted by Emmo November 20, 08 03:00 PM
  1. This is a typical case of "throw s... against the wall and see what sticks:" I agree with post #7 as another example of why some players avoid the media. The article is NY POST like. Shame on Huck Finn!

    Posted by Fast Eddie November 20, 08 03:03 PM
  1. A PR nightmare if there ever was one.

    Once, just once, a Red Sox legend needs to leave on good terms (and seriously, when was the last time?). I'll take my chances with declining production, he needs to stay.

    Posted by Pete November 20, 08 03:05 PM
  1. I am sure if they get a good offer for Big Papi they will part with him. I thought Dave Henderson would be here for life so what do I know? The problem is that if Sox are thinking they need a new DH other teams will also have a low openion of Big Papi.

    Posted by Tom November 20, 08 03:05 PM
  1. Who ever thought this was a good idea should be shot!!! I am serious FIRE THIS WRITER!!!

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 03:05 PM
  1. Hey Evan,

    It would have been difficult to "trade" Teddy ballgame in the 60's,
    since 1960 was his last season

    Posted by Nellie Fox November 20, 08 03:05 PM
  1. Thank you Doug....my sentiments exactly. I waited the entire article for the meat and potatoes about the contract...and never got it. That's a guaranteed way to start a completely uniformed discussion.

    It's obvious Big Papi was hurt this season and valiantly played through the pain and took the field everyday knowing he wasn't himself, which I'm sure was frustrating to no end for the big fella. He still was a presence and almost turned the tide of the entire ALCS with one swing of the bat. He'll be much better when he comes back healthy and hopefully in shape! But believe me...he'll be here through his option year at the least.

    Posted by Ush November 20, 08 03:06 PM
  1. if they traded him what would the sox get?

    Posted by Ricky November 20, 08 03:06 PM
  1. simply NOT an option, big Papi is a Boston Red Sox icon, he'll bounce back and have a very productive 2009 + agree that he's signed at a bargain price !

    -- are you tripping chad ?

    sign Teixeira whatever the cost !

    Posted by soxaffair November 20, 08 03:06 PM
  1. Sometimes you have got to make decisions with the thing that is sometimes wrong and sometimes right, HEART. You got to look beyond the things that people say are more important or what is "best", money, wins ego, pressure etc and go with what makes us tick (literarily) and what makes us stop and think. Papi may one day need to be traded. He also may come back next year after a slower year and hit 60, then of course Theo will be hung from Yawkey Way...

    But, guess what we (Red Sox fans far and wide) pride ourselves on not being one thing, Yankees fans. We all know that every single Yankee is considered being traded as soon as they have a bad day, month or year. My heart will never be that way and sometimes you got to go with what you know, and I know in my heart Papi shouldn’t be traded.

    Posted by Nunan November 20, 08 03:07 PM
  1. your stupid

    Posted by stupid people hater November 20, 08 03:07 PM
  1. Who ever came up with this idea should be shot! Seriously fire this writer. Typical Boston BS turn on your stars till we either force them out of town or throw them out. I am so mad that this would even be talked about.

    Posted by Don't trade Ortiz under any circumstances November 20, 08 03:07 PM
  1. Yes. a prudent decision. Let's just say he's peaked and the wrist injury.... ominously sounds familiar. In this performance enhancing era, the team cannot lose a key component for a year or more at a time. It's not a money issue. The time has come.

    Posted by Jaime Roberton November 20, 08 03:07 PM
  1. ill take him for melky hahahaha

    Posted by vinnie gags November 20, 08 03:09 PM
  1. He had one bad season due to injuries. If he played 150 games, that's about 33 HR and 130 RBI. That's not a bad season for $10 million. Let's not give up on him just yet okay?

    Posted by baseballdiamond November 20, 08 03:11 PM
  1. Dumb idea…Papi brings so much to the Red Sox beyond states.
    Papi stays period!

    Posted by Jay B November 20, 08 03:11 PM
  1. NO NO NO!

    Posted by Ann November 20, 08 03:11 PM
  1. If we can get him back on HGH he'll be fine. That's the problem.

    Posted by fatguy November 20, 08 03:12 PM
  1. Papi IS the Boston Red Sox.




    Posted by daniel November 20, 08 03:14 PM
  1. Please.. Please.. Please.. Stop getting teary eyed over professional athletes. It's not about what they've done (and everyone agrees Ortiz has been great), it's about what they can do moving forward. If the Sox have seen something (medical or otherwise) that shows in their eyes he may be declining faster than originally thought - they owe it to the Nation to move him. It's a business, plain and simple. Papi will be fine either way - he has $25mil guaranteed coming his way.
    I'm not saying definitely trade him, but the Sox need to look at ALL the options.

    Posted by Howie November 20, 08 03:19 PM
  1. Hello? We're talking about Big Papi! Red Sox favorite! In my opinion keep e'm

    Posted by Carl weezer November 20, 08 03:21 PM
  1. Love Big Papi, but sadly the teams and more so the players union have made baseball strictly a business where EVERY player has to be evaluated constantly with consideration to both the current market and projections of future performance and value.

    Not that the baseball cap or budget mean anything to the SOX, but trading Crisp and trading Ortiz would give them close to $20 million per to play with in acquiring young talent.

    Posted by Otis November 20, 08 03:21 PM
  1. Chad, Chad, Chad. Between last week's Varitek column and this, I'm reminded of an old SNL sketch where a late night talk show host couldn't entice any callers, so he started throwing out increasingly vile topics.

    Come back to us. Please.

    Posted by Harrybosch November 20, 08 03:22 PM
  1. No way. DO NOT. I think that'll bring back The Curse...

    Papi es lo mejor.

    Posted by Jimmy S. November 20, 08 03:23 PM
  1. When the Red Sox winning everything is good - first Manny, the catcher now Big Papi - they will never win another ring when this happen

    Posted by big November 20, 08 03:24 PM
  1. Sox owners did not get where they are buy ignoring the simple rule of thumb:

    Buy low, sell high.

    David Ortiz will not be traded coming off of an unproductive season with lingering questions about his health and physical conditioning. No damn way.

    You and Mazz need to stop the gossip pieces. It's pathetic.

    Posted by Hoss November 20, 08 03:24 PM
  1. Trade him now while his value is currently still high. Other desparate teams will be drooling to have this guy -- albeit only for a few years. He's 33 and his best years are behind him. He can't hit a high fastball which was ever so obvious during the playoffs and that was his demise in Minnesota -- chasing high fastballs. He is a DH and a DH only. In 3 years or less his worth will be next to nil. Yes, he has been the epitome of a basball professional and clubhouse leader while he has been here, but with his pal Manny now a ex-Sox I believe this has caused Ortiz a little grief -- that maybe a part of him is missing. Admit it, Manny actually made Ortiz see better pitches. He wasn't the lone savior in Minnesota and he won't be one in Boston. Since one part of the dynamic duo is now gone, it is time to trade the other one for value while it is there. You can't have Batman without Robin.

    Posted by Willie B. November 20, 08 03:26 PM
  1. Not only do Boston athletes hate when moron writers throw this stuff out there so do the fans. Maybe you are just throwing it out so the site gets some web hits, I don’t know, but there is no other logical reason for you to write this trash.
    The Globe broke a long streak of hiring talent when they brought you in.
    Papi has been the face of the franchise who helped bring 2 WS championships our way. The other players you mentioned who left Boston did it out of pure greed and DO is the complete opposite. The guy can still mash, brings a TON of intangibles and is far from done. Let him rest the off season and bring in a hitter to protect him and you’ll be eating this “column” next year.

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 03:26 PM
  1. of course its time...he has been amazing for The Red Sox...but the writing is on the wall if there is an opportunity they should make the move, while his value is still high

    Posted by Joe November 20, 08 03:27 PM
  1. I'm always for improving the team in whatever way possible, but I take exception to any talk whatsoever of trading our beloved David Ortiz away. There is no batting average low enough for me to ever want him to leave...he's our hero, our teddy bear, ours.

    Not to mention I would have to explan the the cruelty of the world at far too early an age to my 4 year old daughter who idolizes him.

    Posted by Rob A November 20, 08 03:28 PM
  1. Trade Papi, he's done.

    Get any power hitter you can for him that's decent.

    I love Papi, but he ain't BIG Papi no more, it's sad to say but true.

    I hope he proves me wrong, using the line from my Dean's home furniture,
    "I doubt it."

    Posted by DougHenry November 20, 08 03:30 PM
  1. Not happening....Papi will retire a Red Sox.

    Posted by Papi will stay November 20, 08 03:31 PM
  1. Man, Finn. First Tek and now Ortiz, huh?

    Posted by Dante November 20, 08 03:32 PM
  1. If David Ortiz is 33 then I'm going back to high school and trying out for the baseball team. He's at least 37 and he's done. He will never regain pre-wrist injury form. Just ask Nomar about wrist injuries.

    Posted by Jay November 20, 08 03:35 PM
  1. too hasty to call this a 'demise', he was hurt last season, plain and simple, give the guy a break and let him come back from an injury like a normal player. I suppose you want to trade Tom Brady now?

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 03:38 PM
  1. Trade him.
    He's over the hill anyway.

    The past season, The Red Sox have proven that they are just another bunch of overpaid, baseball players. They couldn't even put away Tampa Bay.

    Posted by stev90 November 20, 08 03:39 PM
  1. I was thinking the exact same thing this morning. It makes perfect sense to me.

    Posted by Uncle Tommy November 20, 08 03:39 PM
  1. This is absolute blasphemy in every sense of the word! David Ortiz is an integral part of the fabric of this franchise. Like Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden, David Ortiz has earned the right to go out on his own terms. Papi was saddled with numerous nagging injuries last year (knee, wrist) and was never quite right. This is a guy who hit 54 homers two years ago and followed that up with his best year in terms of average and many other statistical categories.

    You will see the Big Papi that we all know and love once again this year. He is 33 yeard old and has at least 3 or 4 more good if not great years left in him. David Ortiz is FOREVER a hero in this town and part of what makes Boston the greatest sports town on the planet is that we don't forget what our heroes have done for us even if it is a year or two removed. Big Papi retires wearing any uniform other than a boston Red Sox one and it will be a DAD SAD SAD day for this town and this organization.

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 03:39 PM
  1. The sox need to hang on to ortiz at least for another year because of his on base %. The thing with ortiz is that he probably won't be healthy through a whole season. So maybe after the next season we should look at trading him to get the most value for him. It will be very sad to see him go none the less because every sox fan loves him and every yanks fan hates him. He is basically why we won two world series this decade

    Posted by Chris H November 20, 08 03:39 PM
  1. David-don't read this stupid article, please

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 03:41 PM
  1. ortiz sucked this past season...for anyone to suggest, himself included, that the loss of ramirez affected his performance is absolutely nonsensical.....if he's barely hitting 200 in may, who's batting behind him? was he was hitting as high as .250 when manny was dumped?.......although i agree with him in his assessment that the sox need to add another hitter, i think they would be a much better team if they added papi as a hitter....the sox need to add 2 decent bats to the lineup...papi needs to write off 2008 and play better in 2009.....

    Posted by Rojelio Moret November 20, 08 03:41 PM
  1. And yet more hackery. Finn's specialty seems to be setting up straw men and knocking them down. Churn the crank and spew out more incendiary junk and watch the knee-jerk reactions. Where's the real journalism? Blogging is too easy. Remember he gets paid to wave the red flag in front of the bull. Nice work if you can get it.

    Posted by 14 The claw November 20, 08 03:43 PM
  1. That is ridiculous!!! I can not believe that this guy wants the Red Sox to trade Big Papi. That is what is wrong with the media in boston. They talk crap and then expect the players to be cool with them. That is why players like Giles, Pevy and others do not want to come here because everyone turns the back on you when things are not going good. I am a true fan and I believe in Big Papi and I am not going to give up on him just for one bad year.

    Posted by ivan November 20, 08 03:46 PM
  1. Mike K All your argument against the Boston media does is legitimize one of the reasons it is said that Manny Ramirez wanted out of Boston. So all the bad talk and he should still have wanted to say but the bad talk about any other Red Sox player is the reason they want to leave Boston? Is that what you're saying. And Manny may have had a "phantom" knee injury but he still put up great numbers the first half of the year with Boston. You know it really wasn't necessary to bring up Manny's name at all.

    Posted by elccpa24 November 20, 08 03:49 PM
  1. Just knock it off. Not a particularly strong piece of writing from another no-name keeping the Boston tradition of ripping on their best and most beloved athletes alive. Doug K is right. . .how dare you even float this idea without considering his salary? A 33 year old slugger who hit 54 HR's last season locked up for another three years?

    No one says Papi has to play if he stops being productive, and maybe it might be worth trading him in a couple of years. But right now, it seems to me that Lowell is the odd man out.

    Posted by Lucky Marbles November 20, 08 03:51 PM
  1. Not time to go yet! Consider that the Sox took a chance on Mike Lowell after a sub-par year and he came back with stunning numbers. D-O's numbers were not that bad last year considering he missed 50-plus games and was hurt while he did play. We could miss something really good if we let him go ... on the OTHER hand, if some team came forward with a killer offer, we'd have to listen.

    Posted by Bob Fredette November 20, 08 03:52 PM
  1. Yes, his time is up and his better days are behind him.

    Posted by Morrocco November 20, 08 03:54 PM
  1. You have to realize that without Manny, Papi carried the collective weight
    of the Red Sox nation. Even though Youklis and Pedroia were having great
    years, the pressure to be Big Bopper was definitely hurting his performance.
    Add another big bat (Texiera) to the lineup, and you will see the big guy
    back in his expected form.

    Posted by DJ November 20, 08 03:57 PM
  1. Papi transcends the numbers-- trade Papi and you trade the era that released us from the curse ... it is simply not an option and I do not believe Theo is cynical enough to make such a trade

    Posted by DMO November 20, 08 03:58 PM
  1. The reason Theo Epstein is running the Red Sox and Ian (#3), Evan Penn (#5) or Mike K (#7) are not is that he will absolutely do what a general manager must but a fan cannot, and that is evaluate each player dispassionately in an attempt to make the team better not just every year, but every day. It may well turn out that that evaluation leads to the conclusion that 2008 was just an off year and that the injuries that caused it are temporary and not part of an age-induced pattern. But if it turns out that Theo can better the team by trading Ortiz and his favorable contract (good point Doug K), rest assured that he will do it. That's why it's more fun to be a fan and always hope for happy endings. Let's not castigate Chad for simply saying he hopes Theo does his job. I don't believe he is firing up the "Let's Trade Papi" bandwagon; he is simply stating the obvious. Players aren't offended to have a GM who does his job, even when the bright glare of his attention focuses on them. They know the business.

    Posted by T November 20, 08 03:59 PM
  1. Ortiz isn't going anywhere...and just because you are a writer, doesn't make your point any more valid than mine. He's not going anywhere this off-season. Period. You know it and I know it. God.

    Posted by Jax November 20, 08 03:59 PM
  1. The answer is simple, "No!". The guy had nagging injuries all year, so his numbers were down. If this becomes a trend in 2009 then let the Red Sox address it next year.

    The only things I would ask of Big Papi in the off season this year is get healthy and come into spring training in better condition. There is still plenty of tread left on those tires.

    Posted by Beachman November 20, 08 03:59 PM
  1. Actually, yes it is blasphemous to suggest that David Ortiz might/should be traded. If Teixeira lands in Boston we'll still need that three-four punch (i.e. Papi followed by Manny) and Papi followed by M.T. would fill that bill. If, indeed Ortiz is not capable of being his old self, then something can be done about moving him. His tenure on the team means too much to just toss him aside before we know whether last season was an abberation. A batting order that features Pedroia, Papi, Teixeira, Youk, J.D., Bay....THAT is something to contemplate!

    Posted by EdSox November 20, 08 04:00 PM
  1. You are absolutely wrong. Injuries are part of this game and there is no reason to believe that Big Papi won't be healthy and ready to go at the beginning of this season. Also, since this is Boston you may think we have an unlimited pool of money but this thinking is wrong. Money is still a key issue (see Tampa Bay) and we are getting paying at Papi $13 million/year which is a relative bargain in this market. Use your head, not your wallet Finny!
    Other than age, Papi's stats are similar if not better than Mark Teixeira's.
    2005 Bos 159 601 119 180 40 1 47 148 102 124 1 0 .300 .397 .604 1.001
    2006 Bos 151 558 115 160 29 2 54 137 119 117 1 0 .287 .413 .636 1.049
    2007 Bos 149 549 116 182 52 1 35 117 111 103 3 1 .332 .445 .621 1.066
    2008 Bos 109 416 74 110 30 1 23 89 70 74 1 0 .264 .369 .507 .876

    Posted by DGreek November 20, 08 04:01 PM
  1. All of the comments about DO are pretty supportive, yet even with the injuries, other than average, his numbers were very similar to 2007. He only played 109 games this year. Prior to this year he averaged 148 games. If you project the numbers out, his year was pretty impressive. 148 games - 32hr; 148 games - 117 RBI At 12MM a year, assuming he is healthy in 2009, is there anyone that wouldn't take those numbers? I don't think so. As the previous comment says, there are way too many players making more $$ with less likely chance to maintain the numbers that Big Papi has. If he is healthy a rebound year is not unlikely and if some of his production was based on Manny being there, with a viable replacement, he will have another superb season for our beloved team.

    Posted by Sox Fan in Tampa November 20, 08 04:03 PM
  1. If they sign Texiera, it will surely be either Lowell or Ortiz who goes - the question is how much do you get in return - for all the reasons mentioned above you will surely get more for Ortiz because you are giving up more. The Nomar trade worked out fine - even the Manny trade worked out fine. Theo will have options in front of him and should be trusted to make the best deal

    Posted by Mary November 20, 08 04:03 PM
  1. You don't trade Ortiz. It's bad enough Manny's presence is no longer felt in that lineup (although perfectly understandable why they ridded themselves of him), but to get rid of Big Papi, too?

    A lot of this game is psychological. Sure, the Sox can counter with a lineup of, say, Youk, and Teixeira, and Bay and whoever...and maybe the production numbers wouldn't be markedly different over the long haul of a 162 game season.

    However, what's missing there is the "intimidation" factor. When pitchers knew they had to face Ortiz and Manny back-to-back, I'm sure some of them wore diapers ahead of time so as not to soil their uniform pants.

    What pitcher is going to quake at the thought of, say, Teixera and Bay? Or Texeira and Youk? Or Teixiera and Lowell?

    And, that's assuming the fact the Sox GET Teixeira to begin with.

    To trade Ortiz is lunacy. Strictly from a baseball point of view, never mind the emotion of it.

    Posted by Matt Talvi November 20, 08 04:04 PM
  1. We DO have to trade one of the three in order to sign Texeira. The important question is whether Tex is a good fit for a $160M equivalent contract. 8 years at $25-27 million per is what Tex is going to get. He's a monster waiting to come into his power prime with excellent defense. That's better than 1 year of Lowell and 2 of Youk.

    At some point, the Sox need to sign a power hitter to a big contract as our farm system doesn't seem capable of putting up the big offensive numbers we need. It just hasn't been a priority of the development team.
    Lets trade Youk or Lowell, but I just don't think that you can replace what papi does at the price. (Thanks for the contract numbers Doug K)

    Posted by Chip November 20, 08 04:04 PM
  1. This is a great David Ortiz appreciation article actually. Which gives into the fact that NO NO NO...Papi can't be traded.

    C'mon - we're talking about Big Papi...you don't trade him...you clone him.

    Posted by Dguz November 20, 08 04:04 PM
  1. This is just another case of a Boston writer trying to stir the pot. Must be a slow day in the news room. It's the Boston writers that drive players out of Boston just as much as it was bad ownership in the past before the Henry era.

    Posted by Mike H. November 20, 08 04:13 PM
  1. Stop the madness.

    Posted by Denny November 20, 08 04:14 PM
  1. The typical what have you done for me lately vulture article out of Finn. Get it through your head folks, Brady and Papi arent leaving New England any time soon. Any suggestion otherwise is just foolish

    Posted by Jeremy November 20, 08 04:26 PM
  1. Sad to say Ortiz is as good as good as gone. And if the Red Sox are the high bidder for Mark Teixeira he'll be playing for the second highest bidder. The Red Sox are going to be out of it for at least the next three years and it's all that gosh darn Manny's fault.

    Posted by Grownup November 20, 08 04:27 PM
  1. I have to admit that i have thought about this. When teams put the shift on D.O. and he can't lay the bunt down the 3B line I wince. If his wrist is 100% it wont matter. But if its not and he doesn't adjust he may be all done. Pitching him to pull into the shift seems too easy.

    That said...I love this guy. He just seems to be everything you want in your star. When he performs poorly it actually seems to bother him. Imagine! My hope is that he returns to old form.

    Posted by DO on the mend November 20, 08 04:27 PM
  1. Wow everyone bashing Ortiz, the people who bash him are a joke. Clearly aren't fans and are ready to jump off the bandwagon over to NY at any point. It's pathetic to read the comments on here and how fast they will turn on a person.

    I love all the people making comments about his size too, I'd be willing to put down money that you are larger than him and jealous because you are not as sucessful. Shame

    Papi isn't going anywhere

    As for the Brady trade mentioned now that is plausable

    Posted by Mike November 20, 08 04:33 PM
  1. Trade Big Papi? Never. This article would be appropriate if the subject was, "Should Big Papi bat #3 no matter what or possibly get dropped to #5 or #6 if he struggles?" That's the only Papi discussion for 09-10.

    Posted by Dave Cyprian November 20, 08 04:38 PM
  1. In this day and age of 'what have you done for me lately,' and our prone to overreact, it was only a matter of time until someone wrote an article like this. While it was well written, it's moronic to even think this will happen. Maybe expecting him to get the clutch hit EVERY TIME was a bit of an overreaction too. Did we forget he missed 40+ games, and that his average was on the rise before he got hurt in late May. I just checked ESPN, and for the month he hit .318/8HR/22 RBI with 1.026 OPS and then he hurt his wrist … hmm, sounds like he was pretty damn productive. This is nothing more than a ‘I-Can’t-Think-Of-Anything-To-Write-Because-It’s-November-And-Nothings-Happening-Yet’ type of article. So if he doesn’t get hurt, am I crazy to think he would’ve hit .280/30/120 with a .900+ OPS? Are we talking about trading that guy? I didn’t think so. So let’s continue to proliferate our age of overreacting because David Ortiz had a down season WHEN HE HURT no less and because he didn’t get a hit every time he was up in the postseason. Hell, I don’t believe Chad really thinks we should trade him, he wrote the article to get a reaction, so well played.

    Posted by soxnation71 November 20, 08 04:38 PM
  1. If baseball really is a buisness then you're going to be trading away a bargain of a player for product and what this guy does in the clubhouse. People wanna say how Varitek controls the game? Well Papi seems to relax everyone in the club house, he has fun playing the game he loves.

    Not to mention if he is traded away I bet the amount of money lost from merchandise sales from him would be staggering on top of no Manny. Ortiz is the face of the Red Sox

    Posted by Mike November 20, 08 04:38 PM
  1. Why am I not surprised that people are throwing Ortiz under a bus, despite all he's done for us? Typical irrational Red Sox fans, myself included (sometimes, anyway, but not this time).

    He was injured in 2008--let's see how he produces under a full season at near-100% health.

    Posted by denver_soxfan November 20, 08 04:39 PM


    Posted by LEE November 20, 08 04:39 PM
  1. Chad Finn, please go away. I agree with Mike K.

    Posted by Adam R November 20, 08 04:51 PM
  1. "Boy oh boy, guys, I really like this Jesus guy as much as anyone, but he hasn't turned water into wine or laid out the loaves and fishes in a while, so we better run him out of town..."


    Posted by Mattmer09 November 20, 08 04:52 PM
  1. I'm sure the trade market for a one-tool DH who is a hasbeen is massive.

    Posted by Rich November 20, 08 04:52 PM
  1. I understand where Chad's argument is coming from, but I'm inclined to give Ortiz at least one more season to prove that he can stay healthy and still be a menacing force in the lineup.

    In 2007, he had the bum knee already when he hurt his shoulder sliding into second base against the White Sox, and the shoulder/knee bothered him throughout that season. Yet he still managed to slug 35 homers, drive in over 100 runs, and then get hot again in October.

    Last year, yes, he was struggling early on with the sore knee, but he had really begun to find himself at the plate when that foul ball swing in Baltimore injured his wrist. Let's face it, the wrists are where major league hitters make their money, and if you don't have them both at 100%, you're just not going to be productive.

    Call me a cockeyed optimist, but Ortiz is just a DH, afterall. He just hits.....the stress on his body is really not that great (although yes, he could stand to drop 10-15 pounds and increase his flexibility).

    I'm betting that as long as the wrist and knee are healthy, we'll see the real Big Papi again in 2009.

    If we don't, well sure, then consider trading him. But he's definitely earned the benefit of the doubt in my mind, for now anyway.

    Posted by Tony November 20, 08 05:03 PM
  1. What ever happened to the quality of writers that used to bless the Boston Globe Sports page. This Mr. Finn should be sent packing over to the rag Herald for this type of Sports Reporting. Peter Gammons must be ashamed to admit that he once wrote for the Boston Globe.

    Posted by Ashamed November 20, 08 05:06 PM
  1. Wow, we got us some real Nobel Prize winners here in the cheap seats. Let me say it again:


    He said that Sox management might very well be exploring the idea, and that there is reason to think that Ortiz' best years may be behind him. The first is simply the way of pro sports. The second is based on an understanding of baseball history: players with Ortiz' body type and array of skills -- power hitter, good patience, slow runner, bad defender -- tend to have short careers. Some beat the odds, but most of them fade in their early 30s.

    If you read what Chad actually wrote, he clearly stated that he would love it if Papi beat those odds and had several more productive seasons at the heart of the Red Sox order. But he also pointed out that it may not work out that way.

    Posted by johnw November 20, 08 05:11 PM
  1. Thank you, John W.

    I WANT to keep Papi. I said I dread the day he's traded. It astounds me how so many people miss the point. I don't want him gone, but when the time comes, -- and it will come, which few seem to want to admit -- I dearlyI hope it's a graceful exit. He deserves that.

    Oh, and those of you who said you didn't read the entire article are immediately disqualified from having an opinion worth considering.

    Thatis all.

    Posted by cf November 20, 08 10:20 PM
  1. What an idiotic, poorly thought out, muckracking piece of exploitative journalism. Heck, let's call it yellow journalism; yellow for cowardly, as the Chadster somehow managesto interject that, hey, he never wanted Ortiz traded, he's just trying to get inside Theo Epstein's cold hard brain.
    Remember that fifty million or so the Sox paid for Dice-K? Know one of the main reasons they paid it? Marketing! Know who's the Sox most marketable player? It ain't the (older, with worse career numbers than Oritz) Lowell.
    Give me a break.

    Posted by robert November 20, 08 10:56 PM
  1. Who cares about Papi, who are the Pats gonna get for Cassel?

    Posted by Anonymous November 20, 08 11:00 PM
  1. Big Papi is gonna hit 40 homers next year and shut all you fair weather friends up.

    Posted by Benny November 20, 08 11:03 PM
  1. You can't trade someone when their value is low and Ortiz's value is at the lowest it's been since he platooned with Giambi in 2003. What would you get? Maybe someone equally old and broken down, like Matsui. He might have 2 years left. Rather than trade him, let him ride off into the sunset with this team.

    Posted by Classless November 21, 08 12:20 AM

    Posted by manny ramirez November 21, 08 12:39 AM
  1. Ortiz is the Red Sox if theo trades him what else is the Red Sox going to be known for?! Big Papi rocks!

    Posted by josh November 21, 08 12:42 AM
  1. Finally. Someone who actually read the article. Good for you johnw!

    Posted by tomw November 21, 08 01:16 AM
  1. Just a few months after Manny is run out of town, after being in the crosshairs for several years, and now we get to read this.
    Rather than worry about if/when Ortiz's body breaks down (and yes, I'm well aware of the limited lifespan of heavy first basemen), perhaps the Red Sox should use some management skills to encourage better fitness on Ortiz's part.
    Is Ortiz really done or can he recuperate from the knee injury and retain his earlier form?
    Shouldn't management actually _manage_ their players?

    Posted by RickD November 21, 08 01:33 AM
  1. Even his bad seasons are better than most DH's good seasons. Relax and let the man get healthy. He's not that old!

    Posted by David M. November 21, 08 04:19 AM
  1. I agree with the above sentiment that we shouldn't become teary-eyed over a professional athlete. That said, there is little loyalty in Boston. Consider the potential effect a trade involving DO might have on players such as Jake Peavy who might otherwise consider joining the Sox. Moreover, as pointed out above, his numbers compare quite favorably with his salary and his presence in the locker room, etc, cannot be overstated.

    The above issues aside, I would ask why 'true' fans believe that "all Dominican players do is whine" or are concerned that money is being spent on a player who "can't speak English". How very sad.

    Posted by RogerRamjet November 21, 08 05:13 AM
  1. To all who say Ortiz is "done", "too old", "washed up" : He's only 33, YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS.
    To all who say trade him now while his value is high : He's coming off a down year, his value is at it's lowest, YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS.
    To all who say he's too out of shape to play defense: he's a DH, YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS.
    To all who point to his numbers as a reason for saying any of the above: He began the year coming off a knee injury, then injured his wrist. Both his knees and his wrist are KEYS to his hitting. BUT even with those issues his numbers were still good,( extrapolated to a full season +/- 35 HRs, 130 RBIs): YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS. He had ONE very tough and frustrating season, so throw him under the bus? YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
    To the writer who posted this crap just to fish for responses to show what a good little writer he is: YOU ARE AN IDIOT. Next time include some reasoned logic, maybe some stats, and get to a freaking POINT somewhere in the article. The only valid issue you touched on was that a good GM (DUH) explores all options (DUH). What a waste of time.

    Posted by Steve G November 21, 08 08:52 AM
  1. Chad, I am sorry but you are an idiot! Do you just sit there all day and think up crap to throw against a wall and see if it sticks? Whjy do you and other writers chose this type of work rather than digging to uncover FACTS of what IS going to happen and leave the "might happen" and "could happen"'s to the fans!

    It is the fans job to buy tickets and talk about what could happen. It is your job to uncover facts and compose a story based on the facts that were found. That is why you get paid and we do not!

    How about this, why don't you write childrens fiction books because your then you would not have to worry about facts!

    [Chad responds: I would love to write children's fiction! I think my first book will be about what happens when kids don't learn how to read -- they grow up to make idiotic comments on a website.]

    Posted by Mike November 21, 08 09:31 AM
  1. "cramming everyday quality players" is a problem is Finn on crack!? Why is this a problem? Why am I even posting on this preposterous idea/post/article????

    Posted by 1387 November 21, 08 10:52 AM
  1. When did John Tomase start writing for the Globe?

    Posted by Joe November 21, 08 10:58 AM
  1. Hard to make people see the truth. Ortiz ' bat speed is way down. That is the most critical part of powere hitting. The people who are watching are not paying attention. You see Papi pre 2008. He will never be the same player. If he hit a liitle, the Sox win the Ray series. Pray I am wrong, but you will never see the old Papi agagin. The Sox should try and move him and focus on Teixeira. Heresy to most Sox fans, but there comes a time when you lose your skill. It's happening to Papi and the Sox will suffer if they depend on him. Sorry....hate to say this, but Ortiz is sliding rapidly. He was fabulous, but Sox should trade him now before it's too late.

    Posted by will November 21, 08 11:06 AM
  1. No. Absolutely not. Do not trade David Ortiz. Without him the Red Sox would not have 2 World Series. Don't prove Pedro, Manny and others right that when a player gets beyond where the Sox need them then the Sox just toss them away. I agree Manny had to leave and the Sox almost got to the World Series without. The Sox would have won it with a healthy David Ortiz.

    Posted by Art November 21, 08 11:18 AM
  1. Some guys deserve a contract until they can't hold a bat anymore, and David is one of them. Don't kid yourselves Manny lovers or Schilling followers, it was always David that glued the team together, it was David who pulled out all those walk-offs in 2004, and it will be David in a Red Sox uniform until he decides to retire.

    When he smacks 40 hrs this year everyone will be back on the Papi wagon.

    So no more talk of Big Papi being traded!

    Posted by Brian November 21, 08 11:40 AM
  1. I dont care if Papi never gets another hit in a RED SOX uniform, but hope he stays on the team until 2020. He gaves us to much excitement to even be mentioned to be traded.

    Posted by Herman November 21, 08 11:42 AM
  1. Chad, are you for real? Did you bring up this topic just sell copies of the newspaper? David Ortiz has one injury filled year with the sox and he is no longer desirable or capable? Did David slight you in some way and your being vindictive like Dan shaunnesey? The sox traded nomar because he did not want to be with the sox and was a cancer in the club house. Manny was traded for the same reason. The red sox are looking for a replacement for manny to go back to the one-two punch with david ortiz.

    Posted by Robert Giovanni November 21, 08 12:01 PM
  1. we all love big papi, but he is just one guy. Do you watch him or the whole team? If you get texiera, move papi for some prospect hitters or catchers and move lowell to DH, we will be more versatile, not to mention looking better down the road. Move him now while he has some value. If you wait one more year, he could have another 2008-isk type year. Some team like the tigers, white sox, or hell even baltimore would fall all over themselves to get him. Thanks for all you have done big PAPI, no offense, but this a business, and it is about upcoming championships not the dusty ones in the archives. lineup: ellsbury-pedroia-drew-texiera-youk-bay-lowell-lowrie-catcherTBA

    Posted by aint-no-bigger-sox-fan November 21, 08 12:13 PM
  1. "We have no hard evidence to support this suspicion, mind you"

    So in summation:

    There is ZERO evidence

    NO ONE from the RedSox (or any other) font office has even hinted that this MIGHT be true.

    Oh yeah, and the Sox haven't even landed Teixeira yet (the Domino that *allegedly* is supposed to set all of this in motion)

    This column is typical of how bad the Boston Sports Media has gotten, when an unsubstantiated baseless piece of crap like this passes for "News". Will McDonough and George Frazier must be turning in their graves.

    Posted by Steve November 21, 08 12:51 PM
  1. Anyone who thinks Ortiz is done is a moron! And I'm not critical of the article, it's some of these uneducated posters.

    Posted by Piccolo November 21, 08 01:19 PM
  1. Love the laundry not the player,thats how i see these days.

    Posted by Alex November 21, 08 01:28 PM
  1. Yes Ortiz had a sub-par season. He played with an injured had. No one knows what his next season or two will be like. A little cautious in saying he is done. We will all have to wait and see what Theo does.

    Posted by Keith November 21, 08 01:48 PM
  1. I can believe some of you are getting this upset about a blog. Does the truth hurt that much? All he is saying that the Red Sox COULD look to trade him. If Theo is not looking at his options he really isn't trying.

    Posted by MIke November 21, 08 02:01 PM
  1. Hello. This is simple. They are looking to replace Manny (With Tex) so that Ortiz can be the impact player he was. Why get one big bat just to let the other one go!?!? Oh, and I would say the injuries had something to do with his sub-par year as well.

    Posted by duh November 21, 08 02:36 PM
  1. They can't trade Papi anyway, unless he's changed his mind about wanting to end his career as a Red Sox. He's a 10-5 guy. Plus he's affordable 12.5 mil / season, and under control through 2010 with a club option for 2011 for the same price.

    Posted by J. Bond November 21, 08 03:20 PM
  1. You're on drugs.

    Posted by Ryan November 21, 08 04:53 PM
  1. If papi leaves, it will be just as sad as when the pats lost the super bowl and didnt go 19-0. I love the sox, and papi is the main stream of the fanbase. I'd cry like a 2 year old even if the sox thought about trading papi. what i'm trying to say is: Just Plain NO.

    Posted by LivesForRedsox November 21, 08 05:51 PM
  1. I can think of only a handful of athletes who have meant as much to the team, and the city, they play for. That said, I can definitely think of a day when Papi won't be here. You have to. This is sports, not the U.S. Senate. Athletes, even the beloved ones, break down. I'm not saying Papi is cooked. Neither is Chad. But if all you no-comprehension-skilled banshees can't at least consider a day when the Sox will dump him, well, get ready to fire your shrill, all-caps missives to Theo, because he can.

    Posted by Stebe November 21, 08 06:03 PM
  1. To the guy who says Ortiz is still young,

    32 is the age when a position player starts to go on the decline. Ortiz is 33.

    Sorry but sentiment doesn't win ball games. If your only option to get Teixeira is to trade Ortiz, you do it and in a heartbeat. While Ortiz is in the decline, Teixeira has 4 years before he starts the decline. I would also let Varitek either walk or just be a mentor. Both Ortiz and Varitek are in decline, to keep them for sentimental value is just foolish. Keeping them for what they did in the past is a Yankee thing, let's keep it that way

    Posted by Matt November 21, 08 06:44 PM
  1. truth sucks

    Posted by Jerry Hildebrand November 21, 08 10:56 PM
  1. Chad in the world of baseball all things are possible! So I also would never say never!!!! Big Papi had a very bad season last year,in large part because he was injured but also because he lost his little buddies Lugo and Manny... I would like to think that he'll return to the Big Bopper we came to know and love,with his infectious smile and genuine Big Heart !!! I wouldn't think that he was above being traded just as I expect the Sox brass to consider losing The Captain himself,after all we are all here on borrowed time. No matter where he plays he will always be a Hero in the eyes of Sox fans everywhere's.

    Posted by Sportsbozo November 21, 08 11:25 PM
  1. This is a blatant lie. Writer even admits he made it up in the article.
    Reporters in this town stink from Bob Ryan trying to run Antoine Walker out of town his first year in the league to Chia pet/ Curly haired boyfriend's attack of Schilling this paper stinks. NO one is reading it so they make stuff up.

    "We have no hard evidence to support this suspicion, mind you."
    Try you have no evidence AT ALL

    Posted by SICKofTABLOIDglobe November 22, 08 12:27 AM
  1. I can't belive someone said to franchise Cassel!!!

    Posted by Laughing November 22, 08 09:47 AM
  1. Papi stays and I am amazed that anyone would even consider otherwise. I think the Globe sports writers are desperate for stories so they make up something to get attention.

    Posted by JPnMO November 22, 08 10:54 AM
  1. Wow...we don't win one season, and all of a sudden everyone wants to wipe out the entire team?? You people make me sad.

    Posted by Holly November 22, 08 10:58 AM
  1. Actually, the Boston media has been antagonistic towards Red Sox players since Ted Williams . . . and I know they took a lot of swipes at Babe Ruth, and Spahn and Sain too. Their antagonism is legendary in the national media, and never understood. Kind of like food critics who feel they have to find something wrong with a restaurant just to show how smart they are. Even the normally intelligent Amalie Benjamin is falling into it. And some "win at all cost" fans also fit this profile. Look what that attitude brought to Wall St., banking, S&Ls, Detroit and other businesses which neglected good sense for profit. Fortunately, Theo is smarter than these writers and 'fans'.

    The good news is that the overwhelming number of fans in this blog get it: Papi had a down year. Even in a down year, he produces good numbers. He is only 33, and his job is just to hit, at which is one of the best in baseball . . . and he is a contracted as Red Sox through 2011, and help us to at least one more WS, and will probably carry us through a couple more years after that, and will retire a Red Sox. Articles like this, even though couched in "I love Papi" terms, ruin my evenings.

    Posted by giraud November 22, 08 09:19 PM
  1. Papi deserves another year or two for that matter- really, right? Papi Papi

    Posted by Anonymous November 22, 08 10:01 PM
  1. enough of the speculation. I would be crushed if Papi were moved. You can't put a price tag on what he has meant to the Nation and the team but business is business. Theo has proven that he will make tough decisions for the long term benefit. What can we do except wait and watch. This should prove interesting to say the least.

    Posted by wayne November 23, 08 11:14 AM
  1. Dude, what have you been smoking? Trade Papi? NO. Get rid of you for even suggesting it? YES. Stand right there while I knock some sense into you.

    Posted by Jimbo November 23, 08 11:51 PM
  1. Brian - no one doubts what you're saying about Ortiz. But this is Theo we are talking about. He is close to "bloodless" when making team decisions, especially about players. I don't believe the man has one once of sentiment. I'm not judging here (although I do have an opinion about Theo), I am just stating a fact. He is heartless.

    Giraud - you had me until the comment about Theo. The Boston media is antagonistic, no question about that. But Theo being smarter than everyone...don't think so.

    Posted by elccpa24 November 24, 08 10:17 AM
  1. Chad Finn = Dan Shaughnessy

    And saddest thing about that truth is Finn loves the association.

    Posted by Anonymous November 24, 08 10:27 AM
  1. why you would trade him is beyond me. he had an injury plagued season and you jump all over him? not to mention that this was an awful year (by his standards) and he still had 23 homers, and 109 rbis in 109 games. that's by no means awful. and comparing him to manny is ridiculous. manny didn't want to play in boston anymore, he was creating problems for the team. papi is a team leader and boston loves him. if by chance we get tex, then i think they should keep all four and use Mikey as a backup infielder, and then trade him in 09 if he really doesn't like that idea. really its ridiculous to suggest this.

    Posted by nicole November 24, 08 02:57 PM
  1. Rory (#14) is right on........Brady's focus is not only on his celebrity status, but on walking his girlfriend's dog.. By the way, can anyone tell me how he got his "foot injury" that kept him out the entire training camp and exhibition schedule ??? I can't fathom why nobody has made the Patriots accountable in this matter

    Posted by tekasam November 26, 08 08:26 AM
  1. Even though I feel the better days of Dave Ortiz have gone by, he'll come back in 2009 with something to prove and that can be the motvator for him to put afew more good year's of DH;ing in aRED SOX uniform!! And to go out and find someone that can take his spot will be a challenge even for Theo. As I have said, I feel his better day's are behind him the man can still produce. Let the contract ruun it's course. This way we'll be able to send PAPI off the way ONLY RED SOX nation can!!! OUT ON TOP!! Oh and as far as a bat to protect PAPI, bring in Mark Texiara and a new day of dominance inthe heart of the SOX'S order will bring fear into the eye's of all who will dare!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by Bill RED SOX FLAG CREW November 26, 08 10:10 AM
  1. Knocking Finn for writing this is silly, misplaced indignation. He is saying something many of us have pondered but have been afraid to speak--Papi's best years might be behind him and Theo, while he loevs the Red Sox, is not a sentimentalist in making decisions. Papi may be the best trade bait we have for a real quality SP or even a catcher. My concern for papi is the same I have for guys like Johan Santana, Sabbathia, Pedro Martinez, Zambrano, etc.---guys who never have been really fit, yet can get by on their youth and incredible skills, but I believe only for so long before age catches up. That may be the case with Papi. It's why I never was exceited about Red Sox chasing Santana or C.C.---I just don't believe they're good bets at all for a long-term, $20 mil a year contract. That's why I think Derek Lowe is the best pitching bet out there, albeit the oldest one of the best ones.

    Posted by vermonte November 26, 08 10:14 AM
  1. in the last few weeks you have suggested unloading Veritek and Ortiz. It is very apparent to me that you are one of the "masters of the keyboard" that Teddy Ballgame despised. These two leaders have willed the Sox to be the best team in baseball, broke the curse, and have the Sox in every single game/series they are in. Yes, they are aging. In Veritek's case, he can't hit...but he holds together a young pitching staff. In Papi's case, he had one mediocre, injury plagued season. So ship them off? For what, more Jose Offerman's and Carl Everett's? WINNING PLAYERS make winning teams, not big stats...you don't get it.

    Posted by Keith Carlson November 26, 08 12:03 PM
add your comment
Required (will not be published)

This blogger might want to review your comment before posting it.

This week's OT cover

OT cover image

OT Columnists

Charles P. Pierce writes for the Boston Globe Magazine. A long-time sportswriter and columnist, Pierce is a frequent guest on national TV and radio.
Tony Massarotti is a Boston Globe sportswriter and has been writing about sports in Boston for the last 19 years. He is currently spotlighted as a featured columnist on Boston.com.
Tom Caron serves as studio host for NESN's Boston Red Sox coverage.
Bob Lobel was a WBZ-TV sportscaster for 29 years, anchoring more than 10,000 sports reports.
Chad Finn is a sports reporter at the Globe and founder of the Touching All The Bases blog. Before joining the Globe, he was an award winning columnist at the Concord Monitor.

OT beat writers

Maureen Mullen brings you Red Sox information and insights.

Tom Wilcox covers the Patriots.

Scott Souza is all over the Celtics.

Danny Picard is on the ice with the Bruins.

Mike McDonald takes a look at the humorous side of Boston sports


Browse this blog