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Chat with Jeremy Davis of NELSAP
Jeremy Davis, founder of the New England Lost Ski Areas Project, discussed the Northeast's skiing history, and the areas around the region that time forgot.
| Jeremy Davis NELSAP chat | (02/11/2009) Powered by: CoveritLive |
11:39 | Boston.com Producer: Thanks for joining today's chat. Jeremy will join us right around noon. Get your questions in now. |
11:52 | NELSAP.org: Hi everybody! We will start everything at noon, but feel free to start submitting questions on lost ski areas, ski history, etc! |
12:02 | NELSAP.org: Welcome everybody! For those of you who do not know me, my name is Jeremy Davis, and I am the founder of the New England Lost Ski Areas Project, www.nelsap.org. We seek to preserve the history of abandoned ski areas throughout New England and beyond, and promote smaller ski areas that still operate. We have hikes, ski trips, and lectures across New England. |
12:03 | NELSAP.org: NELSAP has been around now for over 10 years, and we continue to grow. Last summer, we published our first book, Lost Ski Areas of the White Mountains, which is available on www.nelsap.org, if you are interested. |
12:03 | NELSAP.org: So, we will be taking questions today on lost ski areas, ski history, and more. If we run out of time, you can always send me an email at nelsap@yahoo.com. |
12:03 | NELSAP.org: Our first question: |
12:03 | [Comment From Rossi3] Jeremy, how many of these lost ski areas do you make a point to get out and ski? How accessible are some of them for hiking? |
12:05 | NELSAP.org: So far, I have skied only a few lost areas, but have visited at least 150 of them. Most lost areas become difficult to ski area just a few years. Case in point - Temple Mtn in NH was skiable until 2003. It is now virtually impossible to ski, as tree and brush growth is significant. Some are still available for hiking. The best area to hike is Mt. Agamenticus in York, ME. There are marked hiking trails, excellent views, picnic tables, and its close to the ocean. Plus, lots of lift remnants. A good many though are on public property. If you ever want to hike one, be sure to seek permission if its on private property. |
12:05 | [Comment From Ricardo] Jeremy, I have been following your website for a few years now, do you think there ever will be a Map of the Lost areas. |
12:06 | NELSAP.org: We do have a map in Progress. Scott M. has put together a good map on Google - check it out at http://www.communitywalk.com/NELSAP/. Some areas do not have directions on NELSAP as they are on private land, and we do not want the owners to be inundated - but the ones that are typically have directions on the site. |
12:07 | [Comment From Guest] Any lost ski areas ever reopen? |
12:08 | NELSAP.org: Yes! The great news is that in the last 10 years, we have had many lost areas reopen. Crotched Mtn in southern NH is the best example. It was totally derelict but is now totally refurbished and is a fun place to ski. We have also seen Magic Mtn, Bolton, Tenney, Granite Gorge (formerly Pinnacle, in NH), Arrowhead, Mt. Prospect, and more come back. Next one to come back will be Moose Mtn in southeastern NH. |
12:08 | [Comment From South Shore Skier] This is the first time I have heard about this effort - it's terrific. Thanks for the walk down memory lane. I grew up skiing with my family starting in the late sixties. It was an effort - time-wise and financially - to have a family of four ski almost every weekend. So we went to alot of the smaller family mountains including King Ridge, Tyrol, Mittersill and more. I also went to ski camp at Frontenac during school vacation with friends from other schools - we would meet there and have a blast! I am hoping to create the same memories for my son and instill the love of skiing and to appreciate the whole culture of it. What ever happened to my favorite upside down mountain - King Ridge anyway? |
12:10 | NELSAP.org: Thanks for your comments! By the way, we have some great shots of Frontenac in our book, Lost Ski Areas of the White Mtns, and they even have a website - www.frontenacskicamp.org - everybody should check it out. King Ridge closed in the late 1990's due to several poor snow seasons, and a lot of nearby competition. However, their lifts live on at Ragged Mtn and Blackwater, in Andover, NH. The land is now mostly conservation, and there are hiking trails. |
12:10 | [Comment From SJ20Fan] What's your favorite lost ski area? |
12:11 | NELSAP.org: There are a lot that are my favorite. The top 3 are Mt. Whittier, Mt. Agamenticus, and Dutch Hill, VT. You have to love Whittier, with its gondola across the road, and the Big A - for its excellent views and T-bar towers still standing after 35 years of being closed! Dutch Hill is a fun one too, lots of history there, but there are few traces left of the ski area. |
12:12 | [Comment From Mapnut] Hi Jeremy. How did you go about finding a publisher for your book? |
12:14 | NELSAP.org: Believe it or not, the publisher found me! The History Press specializes in regional and local histories on topics which have not yet been published. They found NELSAP, we talked it all over, submitted a proposal, and it progressed from there! |
12:14 | [Comment From Carol] I have been wanting to participate in a NELSAP group ski but haven't made it yet. Are any more planned for this season? |
12:15 | NELSAP.org: We may do one more in March or April. My schedule this year has been busy with the book, and am also making plans to give a presentation at the Ski History Congress out in Mammoth Lakes at the end of March, with ski historians around the world. But hopefully we can do one more day! |
12:15 | [Comment From Elizabeth] Jeremy, How did you first become interested in this subject? |
12:18 | NELSAP.org: Well, I first learned to ski in 1989, and went on our first family ski trip to N. Conway in 1991. On that trip, we passed by Mt. Whittier. I was fascinated by the scene of a lost ski area. At that point, I knew zero about ski history, but I thought it would be fun to learn more. I am always fascinated by the passage of time, and what it does to locations. I gradually collected more info on lost ski areas, and started a website in 1998. It has grown so much since then! |
12:19 | [Comment From NYRespectedMeteorologist] I really enjoyed reading your book about the lost ski areas of the White Mountains. What will the next book be about, and when will it be released? |
12:19 | NELSAP.org: We hope to do another book soon, likely on Lost VT areas. This could become a series! |
12:19 | [Comment From Sean] What about Mount Whittier? Tram across route 16...that was a great place...any chance that could reopen? |
12:20 | NELSAP.org: Not likely, unfortunately. The mountain is plagued by a double fall line, little snowmaking, and it is located just far enough away from a resort area like N. Conway to make competition difficult. |
12:22 | [Comment From Ricardo] Is the Ski History Congress open to the public. Will the minutes |
12:22 | NELSAP.org: Yes it is - anybody can attend, but you need to register soon! |
12:23 | [Comment From Harris McWade] Hello Jeremy, Are you going to update your book on the New Hampshire ski areas? By the way Tiny says hello and sorry he couldn't join the chat today, but he is on his way out to Camp Hale, Colo. to ski with his few remaining 10th mountain buddies. |
12:25 | NELSAP.org: The book probably wont be updated - though we just did a 2nd edition with a few corrections. Glad to hear Tiny is out in Colorado! |
12:26 | [Comment From Elizabeth] The site is great, you've done a wonderful job. I also love the items fromt he store...I have a lot of friends and family that gre w up skiing at these areas and I've given a few of them the calendars, mugs, etc. They have made such unique gifts and it always sparks great conversations about fond memories of childhood ski vacations. Thanks for that! |
12:26 | NELSAP.org: Many thanks! |
12:26 | [Comment From Nelsap south] what's your favorite chairlift ride? |
12:27 | NELSAP.org: I love funky, old chairlifts. You gotta love Mad River's single. One of my other favorites is the oldest double chair in New England, the East Bowl at Cranmore. While its slow, its a fun ride. |
12:27 | [Comment From AlRoker] I hear you're a meteorologist. How does your career complement your hobby (NELSAP)? |
12:28 | NELSAP.org: I'm lucky that I have a job that doesn't feel like work - I was always interested in weather since I was 8. Following snowstorms are a lot of fun when it impacts open areas, and I get to know where the best snow will be. |
12:28 | [Comment From Don Rudolph] What is the latest on the North Creek Ski Bowl and the connection to Gore Mt? |
12:29 | NELSAP.org: Looks like it will happen next year! The old T-bar at North Creek has been taken down, and there have been some trees cut. |
12:29 | [Comment From Greg] Do you have to be someone connected like yourself to hike and ski these areas, or could anyone do it? |
12:30 | NELSAP.org: It totally depends on whether it is public or private. If its public land, or state forest, go for it! If its on private, it is much more difficult. Always need to respect the landowners. |
12:30 | [Comment From WoodChuckVT] Hey Jeremy, I was wondering if you had any more current info about the potential reopening of a few areas. Do you have any more info at this point about the reopening of Moose Mountain? I've driven by there a few times since the trails have been cleared and and am curious. Also, while driving past Birdseye Mountain in Castleton VT over the summer, I noticed a lot of work being done clearing the old ski trails. Did you get any word on that operation when you were filming that bit on NECN? |
12:31 | NELSAP.org: Moose Mtn in Brookfield has been cleared out. They planned to have some snowmobiling there this winter. Plans are more for snowboarding and terrain parks - but its all in the works! They have a website (need to find the link) which I should post on the site. |
12:31 | [Comment From Dil] Are school groups keeping the smaller areas open |
12:32 | NELSAP.org: Some school groups do help keep up attendance at smaller ski areas. Smaller areas are ideal for learning how to ski, and for after school skiing. |
12:32 | [Comment From Guest] I see an area on your site called Wheeler Hill in Amherst, MA. Do you have any more info on where that was? |
12:33 | NELSAP.org: At the top of my head I don't know - but send me an email at nelsap@yahoo.com and I will look into it. |
12:33 | [Comment From Cordelia] To all those chatting - if you love small and not yet forgotten "mountains", please visit Storrs Hill in Lebanon, NH. We'd love to have you. http://www.naturecompass.org/loc/about.html |
12:34 | NELSAP.org: Storrs is a great example of a family friendly, affordable mtn. I skied it last year and it was a lot of fun! Particularly enjoyed the narrower twisting trail in the woods. Check it out! |
12:35 | NELSAP.org: I also skied at Veteran's Memorial in Franklin NH on Saturday. What a great place! Interesting trails, great snow, and friendly volunteers. Definitely worth checking out! |
12:35 | [Comment From Guest] how do you feel about the redevelopment of Mittersell? |
12:36 | NELSAP.org: I'm fine with it. They will just be putting in a new/used double in place of the old one, and using the same footprint of the ski trails. Trails will be left in a more natural state. Its a lot safer for skiers to use when there is a ski patrol, etc, and the terrain will be similar to what is there now. |
12:36 | [Comment From Ricardo] Any lectures / book tours planned for the Boston area?Do you have a traveling slide show for lectures that a ski club would be interested in watching? |
12:37 | NELSAP.org: Yes, I have a presentation, and if any of you are in a ski club and would like me to talk, send me an email. We did a signing at the Boston Ski Show in November. We may do another talk this spring, or possibly in the fall. |
12:38 | [Comment From GlenChemlsford] I bet you've met some really interesting people throughout the years of this project. Any in particular stand out? |
12:39 | NELSAP.org: I have met some amazing people over the years! One of my favorites was Bill Currier. He inspected ski lifts, moved lifts, worked with ski areas, and much more. Sadly, he passed away last year. He was in his late 80's, and could remember details about moved lifts that he did in the 1950's! Most ski areas used him at some point, and all had nice things to say. He was a classic Yankee engineer who could fix anything at a ski area. |
12:39 | [Comment From GC] Hey! It sounds like a mutual friend intro'd me to your site, Wayne. I had a lot of stories about Boston Hills night skiing and my personal training area, Mt Tom. What was the highest profile ski area to your knowledge that doesn't exist anymore? |
12:40 | NELSAP.org: There are a few that are right on up there. Temple, Mt. Tom, and King Ridge are the most high profile ski areas that have permanently closed. Mittersill and Mt. Whittier are close behind. |
12:41 | [Comment From Molly Kobz] Is there any chance of the snowmobile being resurrected? |
12:41 | NELSAP.org: Hi Molly! Assume you mean the Skimobile at Cranmore? That is gone for good, but there are still skimobile cars for sale (check out a link on our discussion forum at www.snowjournal.com). I own one and it gets a lot of discussion here in NY! |
12:42 | [Comment From byron holt] I simply want to thank you for all the hard work you have done putting the site together. also to the contributing users (like my brother scot, see us on the indian head page) a big thanks! It has made it so easy to run around new england finding great places to hike and or ski. |
12:42 | NELSAP.org: Many thanks! I enjoy every minute of this research, and wish I had even more time for the site. We have an infinite amount of stuff to add so stay tuned! What is on the site is only 10% of what I have. My inbox has 12000 emails :) |
12:43 | [Comment From harris] I just skied Shawnee Peak in Maine, previously Pleasant Mountain? What a nice little area that was....true the lifts are updated but it still has the feel of a small area with plenty of terrain |
12:43 | NELSAP.org: Shawnee is a great mid sized mountain, and has some nice views as well. |
12:43 | [Comment From Don Rudolph] Do most of the chairlifts at the lost ski areas live on at other mountains or just rust away? I often wonder if the one I am riding (like Pats Peak) was somewhere else first. |
12:44 | NELSAP.org: Many lifts move! Pats Peak's newest double was the original lift from Norwich University. Temple Mtns double chair came from 2 other lost areas - Diamond Hill, RI, then to Watatic! It now runs at the Milwaukee, Wisconsin Zoo! |
12:45 | [Comment From WoodChuckVT] With all the interest and emails that the site generates you must find yourself inundated with information that can't all possibly be updated to the site in one sitting. Do you find that information on certain areas gets more precedence than others when it comes to updating the website? ie, will you update a page on a larger area like Whittier before you update a smaller ropetow only hill? Or does it depend on what is submitted. |
12:46 | NELSAP.org: Great question about how I update the site. It totally depends on time, and ease of updating. Adding a picture is simple. Or adding a memory. But bigger areas take many hours to update. It basically depends on what I can add and when. I do try to do some older submissions first, but if I can do a new one quick, I will. |
12:46 | [Comment From South Shore Skier] Do you recall a mountain in North Conway/Jackson called Intervale? I remember skiing it but I'm pretty sure it's long gone... Thanks. |
12:47 | NELSAP.org: Yes, it is long gone - all woods now. We have some classic photos in the book though! They had one of the first J-bars ever constructed. They closed in mid 70's. |
12:47 | [Comment From YMurakami] I just wanted to thank you for doing this. I attended Holderness School and raced at a few of the ski areas that you document (which closed). I actually drive by the "remains" of King Ridge ski area every weekend when I head up North to Stowe. |
12:48 | NELSAP.org: Thanks! King Ridge can easily be seen on Rte 89. Just dont drive to the top though - its all private property now. |
12:48 | [Comment From DaveV] I used to ski Moose in the 70's, it has potential I think |
12:48 | [Comment From K Friend] Tonight on NESN The Mountain Report will be broadcasting a special on classic old New England skiing from Black Mountain and Wildcat....I loved the old Gondolas at Wildcat. |
12:48 | [Comment From Al] I've got a new one for you. In Rowley Mass was a ski area right off of rte 133, just east of rte 1. You can still see where is was if you drive by. Al |
12:49 | NELSAP.org: Al, it may be Seaview - should be up on NELSAP in the Eastern Mass section. Let me know if its a different area. |
12:49 | [Comment From GC] I seem to remember some big Cup skiing events at Boston Hills. Any info? |
12:49 | NELSAP.org: We dont have much on the big cup skiing there - but will look into it for sure. |
12:50 | [Comment From Al] Your work sure brought back memories. As a kid growing up in Wakefield Mass, I used to ski at Page Hill in Peabody.( which literally got flattened for buildings) Hamilton Ski tow ( a rope tow in a golf course) Boston Hill in North Andover, and a little area in Rowley right off of rte 133. I do not know why this stuff is so fascinating. |
12:52 | NELSAP.org: I think its fascinating because so many of these areas just no longer exist - and a lot of us, whether we skied them or not, wish we could go back to those times. The good news is that there are many small open areas just like the lost ones. There are over a dozen ski areas still going strong with just rope tows. They just dont get the publicity, but we work hard to promote them. |
12:52 | [Comment From JDsBiggestFan] Will you be doing any NELSAP hikes this spring? |
12:52 | NELSAP.org: Late Apr/Early May is the best time, as there are no leaves yet, and the woods have dried out. Hope we can do a hike! |
12:53 | NELSAP.org: As a reminder, we also have a mailing list on the front page of NELSAP - sign up to receive occasional updates about the site and future events! |
12:53 | [Comment From DaveV] You can't stump this guy, people.. :) |
12:53 | [Comment From WoodChuckVT] Given the current state of the economy, and the amount of research that's been done on the downfall of many of these areas, can you give some advice to some smaller ski areas on what to do/not do to avoid making any big mistakes and therefore become "nelsapped"? |
12:55 | NELSAP.org: Best thing to do - get the word out as much as possible, involve the community, especially town leaders, as a supportive town can be a big help. Don't invest in anything you don't need - keep it simple. Spending 500k on a used chairlift can be a big expense. Big focus too is to keep prices low - and let everybody know how low they are. We hear all the time that skiing is so expensive, but thats not totally true - there are many areas where you can ski from 8-20 bucks! |
12:55 | [Comment From GC] Update: The Boston Hills events where fundraisers with newscaster Jack Williams in the late 70's early 80's.... |
12:55 | [Comment From JimC] Live and ski in the Berkshires, word is Bousquets will close at end of season. Nice small area. Historic first lights on slopes and early with rope tow, poma and tbar lifts one of the early snow makers. Is there any hope for the small ski area, Brodie closed a few years ago. |
12:56 | NELSAP.org: We really hope that is not true - but the area has been for sale and is prime real estate. Lets hope not! |
12:56 | [Comment From SKI93er] Nice job on your web site. Really enjoyed it reading it with my cousin, who began skiing in the 1940s and taught me in the 60s. I think I read some rope tows were powered by derelict car engines, true? |
12:57 | NELSAP.org: Thanks! Most were car engines - some still exist on slopes today! These tows were often FAST - the one at NE Slopes in VT, still open, goes about 1200'/min - faster than a high speed quad! |
12:57 | [Comment From GC] Here's a downer question. Who's the next to close? |
12:57 | NELSAP.org: I hope its not Bousquet. I'm not sure if any others are in danger. Skiing has been a bright spot in the economy in New England this year. |
12:58 | [Comment From DaveV] Ant thoughts on integrating the forum onto NELSAP.ORG from SnowJournal..? |
12:58 | NELSAP.org: We might at some point - but we have a great affiliation with SJ and its good to keep the board up on there. |
12:58 | NELSAP.org: I have time for just a couple more questions. If I didn't answer your question, please send me an email at nelsap@yahoo.com. |
12:59 | [Comment From Matt] What area do you most look forward to skiing that you haven't yet. Lost or open. |
12:59 | NELSAP.org: I would love to ski the smaller areas in Maine, like Lonesome Pines or Eaton Mtn that are still open. Lost - I would love to ski Prospect Mtn in southern VT. It is still kept clear. |
12:59 | [Comment From tunah] Wildcat Rules |
1:00 | [Comment From GC] You're favorate big mountain? |
1:01 | NELSAP.org: Burke! Everybody should check it out. Great trails, views, etc. |
1:02 | NELSAP.org: So, I'd like to thank everybody for coming to the chat! Again, if you have any other questions, send me an email at nelsap@yahoo.com. If you are interested in a signed copy of Lost Ski Areas of the White Mountains, you can find a link on nelsap.org. We had over 100 people come to the chat! |
1:02 | NELSAP.org: I hope everybody has a great rest of the ski season, and be sure to support a local area! |
1:03 | [Comment From Harris] Thanks Jeremy for doing this, and we look forward to more updates from you! |
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Jeremy/
It would be great to have a New England map in order to find a few of these spots. I would buy a map that had
all the old locations on a large printed map? any thoughts? Also it would be great to upload photos to a dump site for you to look through.
Thks -love the project
Hi Jeremy. How did you go about finding a publisher for your book?
Is the rain tonight and tomorrow going to hurt my ski trip tomorrow at Mt Sunapee?
Hi,
Have you ever heard of Prospect Ski area in Woodford Vemont. I grew up skiing there and it is an amazing little mountain. Our family and friends really enjoyed it.
Richard -- there is a google map with all (most?) NELSAP areas listed with locations. I believe it is linked off the Nelsap site.
I remember years ago when Jeremy first started this project, and am amazed (and glad!) that it's still alive. There's a lot of ski history here in New England, and am happy that someone is documenting part of it.
WATS UP?
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